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Rukhal

"G" Key macro question

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@NicrolisIn my opinion, your making up rules.

 

Quote

Macro
Definition: A macro is any software/hardware that automates the sending of actions to the game server without user interaction and is not permitted.
A ) Key locking (IE weighing down a key on your keyboard) is not permitted.
B ) Multiboxing (automated sending of actions to more than one client at the same time) is not permitted.

Attendance required:

Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions. If you use keybinds and send actions that finish often, make sure that your actions have desired effect before starting a new queue in case you watch TV or do something similar that steals your attention. When performing actions that you start more seldom and take a long time to finish (such as fishing or training shields) you still need to verify that you have a valid target now and then when starting the action which should be no problem. In case we notice that you are not attending the game and express prolonged robotic behavior where your actions have no effect you risk being banned for automated play. This will of course not happen when playing normally or being afk. You also have to make sure to respond to any popup questions that may occur due to such perceived automation.

 

Punishment: First offense - Permanent avatar ban.  Second offense - Loss of all avatars/accounts and permanent ip ban.
 - Penalties for macro abuse may be applied at any time pending GM review, even if you have discontinued abusing a macro at time of penalty.
 
Use of the 'G' keys on a G series keyboard, mouse, or other similar product is permitted to send multiple actions simultaneously (without any default, built-in,

or added delay timingsin order to fill your in game ACTION QUEUE provided you do NOT use any sort of repeat function.

 

Frist...this in no way says we can't use a voice initiated key send tool.  "or other similar product" (to me) means a tool that will send a sequence of keys to Wurm.

 

Second...The attendance rules by no means say we have to watch the screen 100% of the time. It just says we need to be watching the screen when sending commands to wurm.  For example, if you could queue up four of thirty second actions the player here would only to look a Wurm once every 4 minuets and only for long enough ( a couple seconds) to verify that everything is working right. 

 

Lastly, many here don't seem to want to acknowledge that the allowed "G"  keys tool folks are currently using is in fact automating the process of selecting the right improving related action. The player just has to press the button and the tool figures out the rest...it automates the process. The scan and construct key sequence tool I suggested does the same thing. In sprit they are exactly same thing.

Interestingly enough, the scan-&-string construct tool I suggested requires user interaction for every time a player wants to fill ML queue. Thus it doesn't fall into the macro definition in the rules.

 

 

 

 

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1. "Definition: A macro is any software/hardware that automates the sending of actions to the game server without user interaction and is not permitted."

You are right! There has been some wording change and I mis-remembered the wording! In this case you are 100% correct. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. The wording here says user interaction, which WOULD include voice commands! @validate

 

2. I never said 100% attention, I said more attention than staring at a tv and not looking at the screen. "you need to be attending this with more attention than just watching tv and not even looking at the screen." I used to use Wurm assistant with a timer that would start after it received the log that I finished a certain action, so that I could watch tv while fishing(before the fishing changes). After the timer ran it would make a noise so I could make sure to press the key again. I also had a specific sound for if my line snapped and I needed to replace it.

 

3. The problem comes is that just because there is a disconnect between the apps, by making a separate log file that another application reads, doesnt mean it isnt "automated" BUT you are correct in that it basically has the same outcome. The only difference here is that it is scanning the log files to change the macro. The "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy" set up for automatically selecting the appropriate tool does need to be discussed further with the GM team. Let me do some testing on it real fast and I will edit this post with some more information depending on its outcome.

 

Based on my testing:

1. The method of "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy" IS NOT allowed unless you actually have 90 Mind Logic. The reason being that you WILL go over your action queue. " in order to fill your in game ACTION QUEUE " When doing this method the queues will go over the max action queue if the tool needed to imp is on 4 or 5, for most players.

 

2. When using the "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy" method with out having 90 mind logic(and no delay), I was consistently running into times where the commands did not go through properly and the client would not receive the last 2 sets of imp and repair. The only way I was able to get it to work consistently was with a delay, which means it is still against the rules. "without any default, built-in,

or added delay timings"

 

 

 

TLDR: The "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy", 'u' being improve and 'y' being repair, Is NOT allowed. While the voice commands ARE allowed since the wording is user interaction, provided the voice command follows the same rules as a macro key press.

 

Note: These are based on direct interpretations of the CURRENT rules as of 21/9/2021. Changes can still be made, as technology changes and Wurm receives updates, things may be made clearer, tightened, or loosened. If you feel any thing said in this post is not correct, please send a Private Message to Enki via the forums.

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2 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

When using the "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy" method with out having 90 mind logic(and no delay), I was consistently running into times where the commands did not go through properly and the client would not receive the last 2 sets of imp and repair. The only way I was able to get it to work consistently was with a delay, which means it is still against the rules. "without any default, built-in,

or added delay timings"

 

so now that you understand my first reply here i hope you do ban the people doing it.

Edited by Tpikol

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On 9/20/2021 at 9:15 PM, wipeout said:

Well yaaa mouse 5=w mouse 4= u and just carry the mouse with me while headset on to listen to music so that i dont disturb others while doing chores 

Wurm addiction :(

So that would count as unattended play as you're not at the PC. 

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6 minutes ago, Archaed said:

So that would count as unattended play as you're not at the PC. 

But its just key remapping no actual macro's involved so although i might not be sitting at my pc at my desk my characters interactions are caused by me physically pressing and holding down mouse 4 to queue up multiple actions and mouse 5 to walk forward so sure its unattended but not automated and no repeat macro's or anything of that sort so in that sense that should be okay id say given how if i do hear a pm ding id walk back or a different kind of notification from wa(ore mined and such)

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46 minutes ago, wipeout said:

i might not be sitting at my pc at my desk my characters interactions are caused by me physically

 

"Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions" Not being at the desk, with the computer is not attending.

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With all that settled, does anyone have alternative software recommendations?
As my stone cutting grind is over, ill move over to imping my boat/cart.
I'm basically gonna macro my keyboard now, but sadly its a low end keyboard with no initial software in it like G hub.
What i had in mind is something very simple, as in binding Q to numbers 1-5.
So in essence when i press 1 it will select a tool and just macro add a Q(Imp Action) to that keybind, and i would multiple this 5 times for 5 tools.
This seems convenient for me as in paired with wurm assistant's CraftAssist bar i dont have to look into small letters to imp to know what i need.
If anyone has any recommendations on good software that worked for years, i greatly appreciate that, thank you!

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On 9/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, Nicrolis said:

 

"Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions" Not being at the desk, with the computer is not attending.

So that means no couch potato controller style either then? :( its nice after a pizza to just lay down on the couch grab my steam controller and press left trigger and left bumper to do the same thing while wurm and stuff is on my tv(yes my pc is in my living room incase that matters)

Guess i better invest in a laptop harness then after all if the computer has to come with me where ever i go right?

These might seem like weird things to mention but given how wurms banning history is like i rather ask too many questions then find myself on a ban for not responding fast enough to a gm ticket because i gotta walk 40 steps back to the nearest keyboard

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Man's openly admitting to breaking macro rules. 

 

Might want to cut the "woe is me" and the "I might get banned for some innocent little thing like breaking the rules of macroing by unattended play, how unfair" 

 

You aren't doing yourself any favours 

Edited by Archaed

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Just now, Archaed said:

Man's openly admitting to breaking macro rules. 

 

Might want to cut the "woe is me" part 

I guess we better all open up and make a giant gallows post about banning 60+ people for it then you know

I still dont see how me manually pressing a button and it doing it means its a macro hence why i ask as i physically press a single button to do a single action its just that the controller that is used is not a keyboard or a mouse but instead a fully programmable controller and the location is not my chair at my desk but my couch 5 meters away.

This is also why i ask because ya your post can be seen as sarcastic or can be seen as a legit call for it as is the beauty of text without expressions or emotes so i rather ask so that it can be in writing if its okay to sit 5 meters away from my desk playing wurm on my tv with a controller or if that is not okay because "Not being at the desk" is being used.

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I think you have just admitted to breaking the game rules of macroing. 

 

This is a clear violation, and failure to understand them is not a defense. 

 

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On 9/16/2021 at 9:26 PM, Tpikol said:

lets see if those people confessing on this topic to breaking the rules about delays all the time get banned for it. i bet they wont be.

 

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3 hours ago, Archaed said:

I think you have just admitted to breaking the game rules of macroing. 

 

This is a clear violation, and failure to understand them is not a defense. 

 

Well as clearly i dont understand it please enlighten me how i am macroing then when the definition of a macro as stated in the rules is "Definition: A macro is any software/hardware that automates the sending of actions to the game server without user interaction and is not permitted." and i am in no way automating any of it i am simply asking if my playstyle that relies on remapping my keyboard keys to other buttons on other devices to allow for gameplay away from my chair while still being in reasonable distance of my pc is fine as i was starting to see things about how we had to sit at our desks to engage with the game which i find bs especially with vr coming up the whole "sitting at ones desk or else you cant play wurm" notion is silly

How can you check anyway if i am at my desk or in the room next to were my pc is or in my kitchen or if i am paying attention to incoming pms when i can turn pm sound off and hide the chat and watch a movie hence my questions about if those playstyles are still fine as if they aren't the rules should reflect that better then "Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions. If you use keybinds and send actions that finish often, make sure that your actions have desired effect before starting a new queue in case you watch TV or do something similar that steals your attention. " as in my eyes me pressing buttons on my controller in response to wurm assistant sound effects that are setup to listen to "wall breaks" or action queue being done is me attending to my game session and no where in the established rules does it say the following "Not being at the desk, with the computer is not attending." this is not defined and thus the definition can be seen as using any kind of input device to relay a command done by the user to the client short of it being a single keystroke to send multiple commands on a repetitive pattern(which is not something i do i do remapping for ease of use)

But this attitude is exactly why i ask those questions why i post those scenario's because the rules on macroing are designed to combat automation of tasks be it repeating or sending the same command to multiple clients at once or in order and not mobile playstyles(different controller schemes) you saying how using a different controller scheme is a violation of the rules presents the problem that i am trying to point out
I can use steam link to use my steam controller on any monitor/tv to control my pc with a keyboard/mouse attached to the steam link or use the controller and i can remote control my pc that i play wurm on i can do this from my phone to and i have presented a simple setup on how to do this before and shared more detailed ones in the past and there are quite a few who would log in via steam link on their phones to do basic tasks while at work/on public transport(eg farming praying cooking taking care of animals)

By what you say and what nicrolis is hinting at all these playstyles that people have come up with are breaking the rules because they all are done without sitting in ones chair at the desk where one's pc is at and yet that is not what the rules state the rules on macroing are going after "automation bad you are not allowed to use any kind of macro that uses repeats or delays or more actions then your mind logic allows nor be allowed to press 1 key to send a command to multiple clients at once" yet my scenario's and topics i suggest in response to worrying posts are not automation of tasks they do not involve repeats or delays or anything of that sort they are 1 press of a button= 1 action done ingame they allow for a more free flowing style of sitting or places to be or play from then otherwise would be done by the majority

So posts like this
 

 

On 9/22/2021 at 5:19 PM, Nicrolis said:

 

"Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions" Not being at the desk, with the computer is not attending.


Imply that the following are bad
Remote control of the host machine to play wurm from a different location is not allowed
Any controller scheme other then mouse and keyboard is not allowed

That idea goes in against what wurm is working towards which is vr it goes in against playing wurm with a steam link(hello steam link profiles on steam for wurm are a thing) it limits how you play wurm for no real good reason


If i am in the kitchen grabbing a drink or making a sandwich and i press a physical button on my controller that is bound to key u and it does the same as the key u does on my keyboard then there should be no issue what so ever yet people want to make it an issue when as stated here "In case we notice that you are not attending the game and express prolonged robotic behavior where your actions have no effect you risk being banned for automated play. "  note the prolonged robotic behavior part
If i am in my kitchen and i hear the pm sound from receiving a pm i come over to look if i am on my couch watching wurm from my tv with a movie next to it and i hear a sound like a pm or other wa sound besides the few im listening to i walk over to check it out all these fall under that last part

Yet people here want to claim that it is rule breaking either to troll or to try and twist the ruling into their own version that goes outside of what the ruling is made for so i try to bring light to that but hey see it how you will but for me? i am all for letting people use their own controllers to play wurm(imagine people who have RSI and cant click as often with 1 hand yet their other hand is fine they would prob use a controller with their most often used keybinds bound to it to make playing easier) 

Just to note i am completely against any kind of automation or multiboxing that is not what this is this is related to remapping keys on controllers to be able to play wurm in different ways where the user still fully plays wurm regardless of where they might be at in the house at that time

But i have said enough tried to explain it enough if using a controller to play wurm from a few feet/meters away is not allowed please update the rules to reflect that/ if using remote control software to control the host machine that wurm runs on to play wurm from elsewhere is not allowed please update the rules to reflect that/ if remapping of keys to controllers is not allowed please update the rules to reflect that/if using wurm assistant with sounds to make it easier to know when to press a physical button is not allowed please once again update the rules to reflect that

If not then any scenario i presented here today of habits of how people play this game beyond sitting in a chair at their desk staring mindlessly at a small monitor for hours in a dark cave to make a tunnel should be considered as allowed and valid and if not please do state what rule where is being broken in what way specifically so that those players can get a informed idea that their playstyle is invalid and not allowed according to existing/updated rules 

Thank you

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45 minutes ago, wipeout said:

/snip

 

I get what Wipeout is saying and going by some of the logic people are trying to apply, me playing WO over RDP from work means that i'm not at my PC so i'm breaking the rules?

I am looking at the Wurm session, i am chatting to my allies, i might preform some actions, depending quiet work is but i am NOT sitting in front of my PC.

 

 

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6 hours ago, wipeout said:

I still dont see how me manually pressing a button and it doing it means its a macro hence why i ask as i physically press a single button to do a single action its just that the controller that is used is not a keyboard or a mouse but instead a fully programmable controller and the location is not my chair at my desk but my couch 5 meters away.

You need to be in a position to prove your attending. Just saying your attending isn't good enough. I'd advise you get a wireless keyboard and mouse to use from the couch.

 

 

On 9/21/2021 at 10:19 PM, Nicrolis said:

"Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions" Not being at the desk, with the computer is not attending.

Making up rules again. The rules do not say we have to be at our desk. 

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On 9/22/2021 at 7:07 AM, Rukhal said:

With all that settled, does anyone have alternative software recommendations?

Frist off, you can pretty much google something like "keyboard automation". 

 

I had hopped a result of this thread were more choices for players looking to acquire useful tools. I wanted to level the playing field so all player have access to these useful tool, not just those with programmer skills. I think most of the things you'll find on the google search require some programing knowledge.

 

Another issue is that most of the automation programs that will send a couple keys to the client will let you do many other things that wouldn't be allowed. I'm worried inexperience won't lead to knowing what is okay and what is not.

 

Unfortunately, based on what I've seen in this thread it seems it best to say nothing. And it all reaffirms my lack of faith in Wurm's moderation.

 

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34 minutes ago, Ogare said:

Making up rules again. The rules do not say we have to be at our desk. 

 

8 minutes ago, Ogare said:

Unfortunately, based on what I've seen in this thread it seems it best to say nothing. And it all reaffirms my lack of faith in Wurm's moderation.

 

 

I'm sorry you disagree with what's been posted. You are of course more then welcome to take it up with either the Head GM or the Asst Head GM. 

 

While you are welcome to disagree with what staff are saying, we will never post something with the intention to get people in trouble. As far as 'making up rules', The rules are not all encompassing. They will not cover EVERY situation, that is why we have staff, to help people understand what's acceptable and what is not acceptable.

 

On 9/21/2021 at 1:09 PM, Nicrolis said:

TLDR: The "1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy", 'u' being improve and 'y' being repair, Is NOT allowed. While the voice commands ARE allowed since the wording is user interaction, provided the voice command follows the same rules as a macro key press.

 

Note: These are based on direct interpretations of the CURRENT rules as of 21/9/2021. Changes can still be made, as technology changes and Wurm receives updates, things may be made clearer, tightened, or loosened. If you feel any thing said in this post is not correct, please send a Private Message to Enki via the forums.

 

As he mentioned, these are the interpretations of the rules as of when he posted it. Things change and rules get updated.

 

We can not reasonably provide a rulebook about every thing that is not allowed, it would take too much time to write, most players wouldn't read it because it was too long. And those that would read it, would likely do so with the intention of finding exactly where the line is and tiptoe on top of it.

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11 hours ago, Ogare said:

Making up rules again. The rules do not say we have to be at our desk. 

Okay. Im sorry you took that literally. I forgot that anything I say as a GM will be taken word for word.

 

You need to be paying attention to the screen at which the game is on(wording for that part of the rule). This thread has run its course on the original question and I wont be arguing semantics. AND as I have stated before,

On 9/21/2021 at 1:09 PM, Nicrolis said:

If you feel any thing said in this post is not correct, please send a Private Message to Enki via the forums.

 

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