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Rukhal

"G" Key macro question

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39 minutes ago, Nicrolis said:

Unfortunately I have not spoken with the other GMs about that type of set up. I have heard of people using that in the past. I will see if I can get some clarification on that, and post here as well.

 

My stance on the above post: If you have 90 mind logic it would be allowed, as that would allow for the 10 imp and repair actions. If you have 50 mind logic, you could do up to the 3rd toolbelt slot as that would be 6 actions.

Oooh, by your stance do you consider activation of a toolbelt slot/the tool an action that takes a slot in the action que? For reference i'm 31 ML and have 4 action que slots.
I did not even know activation of items takes an action que slot lol.

Edit: He meant the above users example not my OP sorry!

Edited by Rukhal
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8 minutes ago, Rukhal said:

Oooh, by your stance do you consider activation of a toolbelt slot/the tool an action that takes a slot in the action que? For reference i'm 31 ML and have 4 action que slots.
I did not even know activation of items takes an action que slot lol.
EDIT: Just in case it came to a confusion, the reason why there is a copy of keys is because its a key press and release so  the keys would not be kept pressed down, hence the V and ^ arrows, anyways thanks!

 

To me it looks like his stance is that the activation of a toolbelt slot is not an action, as if it was, then the example given would be 15 actions, not 10 actions. I cannot see how the activation of a toolbelt slot is an action. But that is something that maybe should be made clear. If it is decided to be an action then it would put a little hiccup in most legit macros that are used currently.

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Oh the reason i wrote that is because im trying to understand "the 3rd toolbelt slot as that would be 6 actions" by Nicrolis.
Ah he meant the example given by another user not my original post, hah my bad!

Edited by Rukhal

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2 minutes ago, Rukhal said:

Oh the reason i wrote that is because im trying to understand "the 3rd toolbelt slot as that would be 6 actions" by Nicrolis.
Perhaps there was a confusion cause my macro has the copies of buttons, 2 Q's 2 R's etc, that's because in my logitech hub it accounts for Key press and Key release.
But i might of gotten it wrong, we shall see!

 

The 3rd toolbelt slot would be 6 actions because each slot accounts for 2 actions...Imping and repairing. The actual action of imping and then repairing...so if you do 1uy(slot one) 2uy(slot two) 3uy(slot 3) with the 123 being the actual activation of the slot, which I guess could be up for debate if it is an action, but most do not consider it an auction. So that leaves the 6x uy actions left.

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1 minute ago, gnomegates said:

 

The 3rd toolbelt slot would be 6 actions because each slot accounts for 2 actions...Imping and repairing. The actual action of imping and then repairing...so if you do 1uy(slot one) 2uy(slot two) 3uy(slot 3) with the 123 being the actual activation of the slot, which I guess could be up for debate if it is an action, but most do not consider it an auction. So that leaves the 6x uy actions left.

Hah yeah i just realised, thank you. Its pretty late was up all day so im a bit tired haha. In any case i believe we will get a conclusive answer from GM team at a later date.
As to Nicrolises stance i believe my macro is in the clear, so yay \o/

 

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9 hours ago, gnomegates said:

This would be adding 10 actions to the que, if you have the ML and the belt, I don't see how it does not fit into the current rule set. Maybe I'm not seeing something here, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If it should be allowed or not is not the question I think currently at hand, but if it falls under the current rule set.

no, this doesnt qeue 10 actions qeues 1, thats why its problematic, lets say you are improving a ship, you click 1 button and it check toolbelt slot 1 and tries to improve with one, if that is what you need to imp it it qeues improve and repair ,if its not it moves to check slot 2 and then 3 and 4 and 5, until it find one that works. with your 1 click. so it doesnt matter if you have 20ml it creates 2 actions. and the reason i bring that one up that i heard people use is because the one being discussed here does the same with the 2 tools because its masonry.

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26 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

no, this doesnt qeue 10 actions qeues 1, thats why its problematic, lets say you are improving a ship, you click 1 button and it check toolbelt slot 1 and tries to improve with one, if that is what you need to imp it it qeues improve and repair ,if its not it moves to check slot 2 and then 3 and 4 and 5, until it find one that works. with your 1 click.

whats problematic about it? it demolishes fatigue and you get near 0 rare chance due to a bug/feature that failed actions use 1 second of fatigue and consume rare windows so it's not like they're getting an advantage over people that don't use it

29 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

so it doesnt matter if you have 20ml it creates 2 actions

it'd only get 3 actions into the queue no matter what. if you tried to use 1v2v3v4v5vb or whatever your imp/repair is you'd only ever do the first 3 imps and never a repair unless you're binding ACTIVATE_TOOL_NEXT and clicking your g-series things twice per imp attempt

 

enki's already said such things are okay in the past 

 scroll to badgets comment and then enki's response

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ok Enki did say its ok, so only problem is that the rules could be made more clear then, because they contradict what he said.

 

1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

t'd only get 3 actions into the queue no matter what. if you tried to use 1v2v3v4v5vb or whatever your imp/repair is you'd only ever do the first 3 imps and never a repair unless you're binding ACTIVATE_TOOL_NEXT and clicking your g-series things twice per imp attempt

11 hours ago, Tpikol said:

having a button that does 1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy and qeues 1improve and 1 repair action for whichever tool you needed.

 

not that it matters since Enki said its ok but you are not getting what this does. 

1 to 5 are slots on your toolbelt, if you are imping a ship for example you click the button and it tries to improve with a mallet, it cant because it doesn't need mallet and cant be repaired so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, then it tries with a file and it cant so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, when it gets to the one it does need  it queues improve and repair. this generates 2 actions in your queue and lets you improve something until you run out of material without ever looking at what you are doing.

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1 hour ago, Tpikol said:

ok Enki did say its ok, so only problem is that the rules could be made more clear then, because they contradict what he said.

 

 

not that it matters since Enki said its ok but you are not getting what this does. 

1 to 5 are slots on your toolbelt, if you are imping a ship for example you click the button and it tries to improve with a mallet, it cant because it doesn't need mallet and cant be repaired so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, then it tries with a file and it cant so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, when it gets to the one it does need  it queues improve and repair. this generates 2 actions in your queue and lets you improve something until you run out of material without ever looking at what you are doing.

That is why there is the rule to give attention to your game screen.

 

From game rules:

"Attendance required:

Make sure to attend your game session when performing actions. If you use keybinds and send actions that finish often, make sure that your actions have desired effect before starting a new queue in case you watch TV or do something similar that steals your attention. When performing actions that you start more seldom and take a long time to finish (such as fishing or training shields) you still need to verify that you have a valid target now and then when starting the action which should be no problem. In case we notice that you are not attending the game and express prolonged robotic behavior where your actions have no effect you risk being banned for automated play. This will of course not happen when playing normally or being afk. You also have to make sure to respond to any popup questions that may occur due to such perceived automation."

 

That two sentences I set to bold - and the underlined section especially - are setting very clear what attention is required when you are using allowed automation.

 

EDIT: Trying to make more clear: It is not enough that you actively press a key to start an otherwise allowed keyboard macro or similar software effect, you may be suspected as fordibben macroing especially if you do long actions (like 10+ minutes leveling per tile in a mine: where I got a Macro pop up question on my Mag priest was when I was leveling up to max a large mine ceiling that took hours of continuous gameplay.

Edited by Jaz

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1 hour ago, Jaz said:

That two sentences I set to bold - and the underlined section especially - are setting very clear what attention is required when you are using allowed automation.

but to make it clear to you, this is also in bold

 

Quote

(without any default, built-in, or added delay timings

and it isnt true, it doesnt apply, delays are allowed according to what enki said in that other topic. so the rules are wrong then. delays are allowed but not repeats.

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boy...so no loops or delays and we can use other automation programs?

 

It's possible to make something that scans event log and constructs a improving related string of keys to send to Wurm. The keys would be sent when the player next pushes the ONE button again.

 

I have no problem with others using something like this. What I don't like is the confusion about what we can do and that such an advantage is only available to the few.

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11 hours ago, Tpikol said:

1 to 5 are slots on your toolbelt, if you are imping a ship for example you click the button and it tries to improve with a mallet, it cant because it doesn't need mallet and cant be repaired so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, then it tries with a file and it cant so it doesn't generate any actions ingame, when it gets to the one it does need  it queues improve and repair. this generates 2 actions in your queue and lets you improve something until you run out of material without ever looking at what you are doing.

i'm very well aware of how it works after using it for years, you need 50ml to do what you're talking about because failed actions (ie repairs when it doesn't need a repair and imps with wrong tools) still count as an action/fill queue, so you need amount of tools + 1 repairing queues for it to work, if you try it on a 20ml toon it'll never imp with tool 4 5 or repair. you still have to watch what you're doing in case your mouse moves or you get macro checked or whatever

4 hours ago, Ogare said:

It's possible to make something that scans event log and constructs a improving related string of keys to send to Wurm.

logic is automation and not allowed

On 10/19/2017 at 2:27 PM, Enki said:

Your system would be considered automating a conditional selection that we do not provide as a function of the game.  Therefore it would be a macro and as such against the rules.

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27 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

s (ie repairs when it doesn't need a repair and imps with wrong tools) still count as an action/fill queue, so you need amount of tools + 1 repairing queues for it to work, if you try it on a 20ml toon it'll never imp with tool 4 5 or repair.

"failed actions" only add to your queue if you are already doing timed actions, if you are not they don't.the point of that macro isn't to to fill your queue but to do 1 action and not have to bothering checking.

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11 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

logic is automation and not allowed

It is okay to make tools that data mine logs to do things with as long as that program doesn't interact with wurm.

1. Make a program to analyzes event which writes a string of letters to a text file.

2. Make a second program that open that file and send that string when the player pushes the action button.

 

Here the program that interacts with wurm has no logic, no loops, no waits.

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Even at 20 ML a player could do the simple imp. You'd make multiple imp string keys.

 

At 20ml is 3 total actions. I could combine 1ir into 1i2ir for this but then your left with the last being 5ir. May as well just do 5 keys.

1ir

2ir

3ir

4ir

5ir

 

now I set those up to 5 buttons and I just push those 5 buttons slowly each time. You need to push them slowly so the que can error out ( wrong tool or not damaged).

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I'd like to know if voice attack or voice bot.  macros allowed if the same way no delays no repeats.  i tested it about 4 yrs ago.  injured hand.  i added   say dig ,  and it issued command to press  j  j   j  my keybind for dig 3 times. .    was cool but i didnt want to get banned so i played one handed for the week.  

 

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17 hours ago, Ogare said:

It is okay to make tools that data mine logs to do things with as long as that program doesn't interact with wurm.

1. Make a program to analyzes event which writes a string of letters to a text file.

2. Make a second program that open that file and send that string when the player pushes the action button.

 

Here the program that interacts with wurm has no logic, no loops, no waits.

 

That is actually full botting, and also against the rules.

16 hours ago, Ogare said:

Even at 20 ML a player could do the simple imp. You'd make multiple imp string keys.

 

At 20ml is 3 total actions. I could combine 1ir into 1i2ir for this but then your left with the last being 5ir. May as well just do 5 keys.

1ir

2ir

3ir

4ir

5ir

 

now I set those up to 5 buttons and I just push those 5 buttons slowly each time. You need to push them slowly so the que can error out ( wrong tool or not damaged).

 

If you pressed each button in a short time frame, 1 pause 2 pause 3 pause ...... it would be more then your mind logic would allow, effectively doing nothing, and also not be allowed since it's more then your mind logic can support.

 

8 hours ago, validate said:

I'd like to know if voice attack or voice bot.  macros allowed if the same way no delays no repeats.  i tested it about 4 yrs ago.  injured hand.  i added   say dig ,  and it issued command to press  j  j   j  my keybind for dig 3 times. .    was cool but i didnt want to get banned so i played one handed for the week.  

 

 

The rules clearly state G-keys, similar to those found on logitech and other brands of keyboards. It requires a physical interaction, and does NOT allow voice commands, from how I understand the rules, but we can tack it onto @Nicrolisclarification request.

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3 hours ago, fencejumper said:

 

That is actually full botting, and also against the rules.

 

If you pressed each button in a short time frame, 1 pause 2 pause 3 pause ...... it would be more then your mind logic would allow, effectively doing nothing, and also not be allowed since it's more then your mind logic can support.

 

 

The rules clearly state G-keys, similar to those found on logitech and other brands of keyboards. It requires a physical interaction, and does NOT allow voice commands, from how I understand the rules, but we can tack it onto @Nicrolisclarification request.

  the voice command thing , not just for macro.  but think of how many folks out there is disabilities.  voice control  would help.  again as commands  not macroing .  as you do need to attend.  unless voice recording software to speak for you lol  

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@fencejumperEverything you've said in this post is wrong.

7 hours ago, fencejumper said:

That is actually....

 

What I find interesting is doing the 1key imp thing with ML que is in spirit automating the process of selecting the right improve tool. It's the same thing as I pointed out with the event scan, construct imp string, and send that when the player pushes a key. Here the que is filled up when the player physically pushes a key.

 

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5 minutes ago, Ogare said:

It's the same thing as I pointed out with the event scan, construct imp string, and send that when the player pushes a key

you really coded a bot that scans log files to make a custom string to input based on what it reads and think it's not logic/automation? enki's already specified that such a thing is automation, but feel free to argue with cm's about it lol

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@Oblivionnreaver

In spirit the scan-and-construct idea is the same as 1-key ML thing. They both automate the process of selecting the right imp tool. It does so as a result of the player pushing a key and only fills up the action queue. Just as a clarification, I didn't actually make it but I could.

 

Also, that cm is totally wrong on the other two points. This is one of the issues we have with wurm. Moderators saying things that are wrong and are hurting player's ability to acquire useful tools.

Edited by Ogare

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22 hours ago, fencejumper said:

 

That is actually full botting, and also against the rules.

 

If you pressed each button in a short time frame, 1 pause 2 pause 3 pause ...... it would be more then your mind logic would allow, effectively doing nothing, and also not be allowed since it's more then your mind logic can support.

 

 

The rules clearly state G-keys, similar to those found on logitech and other brands of keyboards. It requires a physical interaction, and does NOT allow voice commands, from how I understand the rules, but we can tack it onto @Nicrolisclarification request.

1. I am in agreement with this. Just because a single program does not take care of all of the automation, does not mean that is not automation.

 

2. Yes and no, you are allowed to press in this form. But you do need to remember that we also state you need to be attending this with more attention than just watching tv and not even looking at the screen.

 

3. Sadly I do agree with this, it would not be allowed. I can bring this up with the GMs and see if this type of program could  be allowed. My own feelings(which do not change the ruling) are that it should be allowed. Speaking is a form of physical interaction from  my perspective. I do not believe we have set a precedent for this situation, although currently the rules do not allow it.

 

I would try to be more specific with these, but any more information will need to be asked to the Head GM as I do not want to say anything about how our detection works.

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There actually is atleast 1 people that i know off that play primarily with voice command issued commands due to disabilities and in the past we had 2 more(they have quit) who did make voice lines to individual keypresses while using a custom designed controller to move their mouse and wasd keys but all other interactions like typing in chat or specific key presses were all issued by voice commands this scenario was brought up before in the past(pre this forum) and rolf ruled that if a disability on the hands warrants the usage of such a program that it would be allowed(missing hand malformed hands that kinda stuff) but only for those people not for those who can still use their hands properly not for the sake of botting or automation but for the sake of disabilities yes

Also on the whole "you need to be attending this with more attention then just watching tv in the past multiple times its been asked if having wurm assistant action queue sound(and later on pm notification sound) was enough to afk mine with a keybind and that was fine

case being hold finger on mouse 4/5 which are bound to your u(u is mine for me) key and upon hearing the ding form wa i hold down my mouse button for a split second
upon wall breaking hear other ding press other mouse button to move forward and press and hold key again to repeat mine

I have gotten into the flow of being able to do this while playing games like league or watching tv shows or playing other games heck even cleaning(wireless mouse+wireless headset) i will go ages without staring at my screen yet there is no actual macro keys involved just remapped keys so here is my question is that still fine given by essence 1 keypress= 1 action? Asking because this is how many of us do things like mining grinds or digging a bsb full of clay in a day we will sit there wurm on its smallest lowest settings camera pointed at what we want(clay tile walls whatever) keybinds setup and just spend hours doing this while playing other games(note no external software being used in this example just remapping of keys)

As if the above scenario isn't allowed then i am at a loss how we all got away with that for years on end be it macro to use 5-7 actions or individual keypresses while we watch a fun movie or do other things
Heck to add we can sit there and craft and imp while playing active games purely because alt tab and windowed mode are a thing(wurm in the center if your playing a fps and when you alt tab mouse is center of the screen if the fps is the type to lock the mouse to the center)

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4 hours ago, wipeout said:

I have gotten into the flow of being able to do this while playing games like league or watching tv shows or playing other games heck even cleaning(wireless mouse+wireless headset) i will go ages without staring at my screen yet there is no actual macro keys involved just remapped keys so here is my question is that still fine given by essence 1 keypress= 1 action? Asking because this is how many of us do things like mining grinds or digging a bsb full of clay in a day we will sit there wurm on its smallest lowest settings camera pointed at what we want(clay tile walls whatever) keybinds setup and just spend hours doing this while playing other games(note no external software being used in this example just remapping of keys)

Way I always saw it is you can use g-keys to do ML = keypresses

 

4 hours ago, wipeout said:

upon wall breaking hear other ding press other mouse button to move forward and press and hold key again to repeat mine

if you have a button that moves forward is fine, but if you have a button that moves forward and then mines, it's not. 

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29 minutes ago, Archaed said:

 

if you have a button that moves forward is fine, but if you have a button that moves forward and then mines, it's not. 

Well yaaa mouse 5=w mouse 4= u and just carry the mouse with me while headset on to listen to music so that i dont disturb others while doing chores 

Wurm addiction :(

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