"G" Key macro question

[Rukhal 27]

Hello there, as i was scouring the forums i arrived at the thread of the rules, and in particular unknown to me G keys/macro were allowed?
I'm posting to make sure i read this correctly and have downloaded logitech G hub for my g403 mouse and created a test macro that i will post below in a picture to make sure it's okay.
If i got this correct i can only have as much actions at the same time as the number of action que slots? In my case i'm at 31 ML so that would be 4.
Below is a picture of a macro for Stonecutting.
Keypress 1 (Toolbelt bind to activate stone shard) Keypress Q (Improving keybind) Keypress 2 (Toolbelt stone chisel bind) Q (Again, for improving) R (Finally, repair keybind)
Is this with in the rules as explained?
Also i would like to know if i can only press macro once every second, or can i just keep pressing it as i have my game window open while having a movie or youtube video etc. on the side?
I'm aware that i'm not allowed to have it on a toggle,hence the reason i'm asking if i can just keep pressing my macro button (smash my head against the keyboard lol.)
Regardless, thanks for reading, hope to get some help on this matter, o/

[Locath 523]

As long as you don't add a loop and you aren't holding the button down, spamming the servers with all those actions, you'll be fine.

Attended filling the queue using G-series and similar is allowed and is used by many. There is a downside to that though.

 

If i understand what was explained to me correctly, you are queuing for example

 

1. chiseling

2. improving with rock shard

3. repairing

 

All of those sent actions (supposedly) have a chance to trigger a rare roll. Regardless if the action happens or not.

 

So, there is a known bug where repairing, if queued at the end of such chain of actions, doesn't always "catch" so with 9 actions for me, my queue for blacksmithing is imp(lump), imp(Water), imp(hammer), imp(whetstone), imp(pelt), repair, repair, repair, repair 

Still only one action queue is filled, all within the rules.

The issue here is that for each press of the G key i am sending 5 different improving requests plus the balance in repairs (so that repairing works most of the time) but each of those (possibly including repairing) has a chance to trigger the rarity roll.

If i hit that roll/window and the action doesn't happen because i got it on hammer imp but the item being improved needed lump, i don't even get to see it, not to mention turning something rare.

 

So for example the item requires lump so the first queued action happens but after that it needs lump again but i still have the other tools queued, despite the event saying "you can't improve the flux capacitor with hammer" and then "this item doesn't need repairing", they all count against the 1/3600 chance for a rare roll which makes you miss a lot of rare items.

 

People say it's good for skill grinding but even from grinding, any rare has some value.

Only thing this method is good for in my opinion is lazy people (like me).

[Rukhal 27]

@Locath

"1. chiseling

2. improving with rock shard

3. repairing"
Yes this is correct, and woooow i was not aware of that at all, because what i would do before is manually do 1 Q 2 Q R and manually pressing the buttons.
That makes a lot of sense and explains why i have not hit a rare in some time now.
If i understand this correctly, when imping its bad to que actions due to them missing rare rolls?
For instance even with out macro if i que'd all my tools from water to pelt / hammer etc. i still stand to miss out rolls?
Also thank you a lot for this revelation, the more you know hah!

[fencejumper 491]

This appears to be fine, however there are some VERY important things that need to be remembered.

You must remain at your computer and attentive, in case a GM or other wants to chat or verify things.

You can ONLY send this string to ONE client, using the normal logitech software should be fine since it just acts like keystrokes.

You can only send actions to fill your queue, 20ML = 3 actions, 40ML = 5 actions, etc. This applies to physical keypress. Holding down a key with w/e is still against the rules.

 

And No looping, or delays other then normal keypress delays.

 

 

About your question about just pressing it once every second, since you are unlikely to finish the actions in under a second, no probably not. Best to wait a few seconds, atleast make sure that the actions have finished before you send another string of commands.

 

[Rukhal 27]

5 minutes ago, fencejumper said:

This appears to be fine, however there are some VERY important things that need to be remembered.

You must remain at your computer and attentive, in case a GM or other wants to chat or verify things.

You can ONLY send this string to ONE client, using the normal logitech software should be fine since it just acts like keystrokes.

You can only send actions to fill your queue, 20ML = 3 actions, 40ML = 5 actions, etc. This applies to physical keypress. Holding down a key with w/e is still against the rules.

 

And No looping, or delays other then normal keypress delays.

 

 

About your question about just pressing it once every second, since you are unlikely to finish the actions in under a second, no probably not. Best to wait a few seconds, atleast make sure that the actions have finished before you send another string of commands.

 

I see, thank you! Will make sure to stay with in the rules, though to be frank i'll probably only do this for stuff that does not matter if rare.
This new revelation really changed my mind to macro too much things, at least a grindstone is not that important if rare, although i probably wont use this when i imp my boat lol.
Nevertheless thanks! If i make my game bar small and turn on whisper sound/notice i should be able to hear GM whispers i believe.
Cheers!

[Jaz 2,663]

Very handy to use macro keys where you do repetitive actions which require little attention otherwise like mining away veins, digging huge slopes down.

Yes imping is a double edged one as you may lose on rare items, but when it is not a concern it is a great improvement over always checking the tool to use, select it and act accordingly.

There is an explicit rule to check back to your client at least every four minutes (of course if the toon is just idling ingame without any actions this does not apply) - so also during long leveling/flattening actions or shield training you should be able to respond to macro popups or GMs.

 

[Rukhal 27]

I see, thank you @Jazi'll make sure to be attentive even if im watching a movie lol.

[Sandyar 524]

Quote

Use of the 'G' keys on a G series keyboard, mouse, or other similar product is permitted to send multiple actions simultaneously (without any default, built-in, or added delay timings) in order to fill your in game ACTION QUEUE provided you do NOT use any sort of repeat function.

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-online-rules/

 

[Tpikol 1,057]

4 minutes ago, Sandyar said:

https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-online-rules/

 

lets see if those people confessing on this topic to breaking the rules about delays all the time get banned for it. i bet they wont be.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Tpikol

[Finnn 3,298]

4 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

lets see if those people confessing on this topic to breaking the rules about delays all the time get banned for it. i bet they wont be.

it's not breaking the rules.. but it's a matter of trust... that they do not click the other button for endless play of the macro... 

it's allowed to use non-loop que, or every click you do, to do as many actions as you can do normally with your queue, without looping and starting again

there's just nothing to control what you actually do

[zethreal 582]

Also, be mindful that if you're imping for skill, you will get almost zero skill at 0 stamina. As said above, you can only use this to fill your action queue, so make sure the queue isn't going to be "overfilled" before tapping again.

[Tpikol 1,057]

2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

it's not breaking the rules.. but it's a matter of trust... that they do not click the other button for endless play of the macro... 

it's allowed to use non-loop que, or every click you do, to do as many actions as you can do normally with your queue, without looping and starting again

there's just nothing to control what you actually do

read again what the first answers say about default delays and what the rules say about such delays.

[Locath 523]

10 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

read again what the first answers say about default delays and what the rules say about such delays.

Was something edited out or am i missing it? Only mentions of delays are NOT to do it?

[fencejumper 491]

12 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

read again what the first answers say about default delays and what the rules say about such delays.

When you do a macro recording for most systems, saves the duration that you press the key down and then release it. Some systems do not save that, it's also not saved if you do a plain "send these keystrokes" string.

[Rukhal 27]

Uhm, okay now im a bit confused, so when i made this macro just now, there was inherit delay that i deleted, the delay was something in ms between key pressed.
The picture i provided is the macro i started using now, as far as i know i have no delay.

[Tpikol 1,057]

12 minutes ago, Locath said:

Was something edited out or am i missing it? Only mentions of delays are NOT to do it?

the rules say that what the image in the first posts shows (default/ or recorded delays) is against the rules. and your answer was that this is what many people do(something that breaks the rules).

 

10 minutes ago, fencejumper said:

When you do a macro recording for most systems, saves the duration that you press the key down and then release it. Some systems do not save that, it's also not saved if you do a plain "send these keystrokes" string.

and if you don't use delays, like the rules say you should, you cant do things like what this person asked.

which is the point of rules against macros, to stop people from using macros.

 

since everybody is doing it and getting away with it they should change the rules to "use macros with delays all you want,just don't use repeat functions".

Edited September 16, 2021 by Tpikol

[Locath 523]

4 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

the rules say that what the image in the first posts shows (default/ or recorded delays) is against the rules. and your answer was that this is what many people do(something that breaks the rules).

 

But there are no delays there, notice the box NOT being ticked in the screenshot so "natural" key presses are being sent

 

Best way to interpret the rules is what you are saying alright but i think it's more to stop people from queuing 9 leveling actions but with 10 minute delays to allow for full stamina drain and stamina recovery or mining 3 times, delay for stamina regen and then 3 actions again.

 

You are right, this is a bit vague but whichever way you send those keypresses to the server, there is always a delay between them, they don't get sent as a string so, logically, delays longer than what you would achieve by manually clicking the keys are what is forbidden.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Locath

[Rukhal 27]

6 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

the rules say that what the image in the first posts shows (default/ or recorded delays) is against the rules. and your answer was that this is what many people do(something that breaks the rules).

 

and if you don't use delays, like the rules say you should, you cant do things like what this person asked.

which is the point of rules against macros, to stop people from using macros.

 

since everybody is doing it and getting away with it they should change the rules to "use macros with delays all you want,just don't use repeat functions".

Uhm, i made sure to delete the delays and i unticked the box top right of the image, so i'm not certiant what do you mean?
I'm not sure what you are talking about for other people, but this was the reason for me making the thread to make sure it is correct.
If it is not by all means correct me, thanks.

[Tpikol 1,057]

yeah just think about it, the whole point of the no delays rule has always been in my mind that you cannot  just use 1 click for auto improving if you have 40ml or more without using some kind of delay "natural" or not.

 

if this is allowed, why only with those keyboard or mouses? why cant i do the same with a 3rd party program that does exactly the same thing with the same delays when i click 1 button? because its obviously macroing. just like this is.

 

6 minutes ago, Rukhal said:

If it is not by all means correct me, thanks.

don't worry this will probably end with me being warned for "staff bashing" is what usually happens when you point out something that doesn't make sense.either that or just ignored.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Tpikol

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

3 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

why cant i do the same with a 3rd party program that does exactly the same thing with the same delays when i click 1 button?

"or other similar product"

 

you're allowed to use anything as long as theres no delays loops or logic

[Nicrolis 980]

56 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"or other similar product"

 

you're allowed to use anything as long as theres no delays loops or logic

Exactly this. I for instance have my improve commands set on my mouse as:

"1uyuyuy" u being imp and y being repair and 1 being first slot on toolbelt.

 

I have the next button set up as:

"2uyuyuy"

and so on for the 5 different tools needed to imp. My action queue is currently 7 but at 8 I will be adding another uy to it since I will have the space for another full imp and repair to add.

 

Each button press only queues up those actions once, and they do not repeat. Edit: On the topic of delays, some do not allow a "no delay" option. This is my opinion on the matter, but setting to anything below 100ms is okay. 100ms is 0.1 second and is instant. I will have a discussion with the other GMs and see what agreement we can make on what max delay is allowed.

[Tpikol 1,057]

13 minutes ago, Nicrolis said:

Exactly this. I for instance have my improve commands set on my mouse as:

"1uyuyuy" u being imp and y being repair and 1 being first slot on toolbelt.

 

I have the next button set up as:

"2uyuyuy"

and so on for the 5 different tools needed to imp. My action queue is currently 7 but at 8 I will be adding another uy to it since I will have the space for another full imp and repair to add.

 

Each button press only queues up those actions once, and they do not repeat.

am i the only one who sees a big diference between that and having a button that does 1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy and qeues 1improve and 1 repair action for whichever tool you need without you having to look?

Edited September 16, 2021 by Tpikol

[Nicrolis 980]

7 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

am i the only one who sees a big diference between that and having a button that does 1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy and qeues 1 action for whichever tool you need without you having to look?

Unfortunately I have not spoken with the other GMs about that type of set up. I have heard of people using that in the past. I will see if I can get some clarification on that, and post here as well.

 

My stance on the above post: If you have 90 mind logic it would be allowed, as that would allow for the 10 imp and repair actions. If you have 50 mind logic, you could do up to the 3rd toolbelt slot as that would be 6 actions.

[Rukhal 27]

2 minutes ago, Nicrolis said:

Unfortunately I have not spoken with the other GMs about that type of set up. I have heard of people using that in the past. I will see if I can get some clarification on that, and post here as well.

Thanks so much for the reply and taking the time.
I believe the post example i have showcased is the first variant not the one you are doing, but it does sound like an interesting bind.
Will actually use the binds you showcased Nicrolis for stuff that has 5+ tools, such as blacksmithing.
But will obviously have to use 5 separate keys with 1 macro for each tool then having a single one like i presented doing 3 actions simultaniously.

[gnomegates 1,427]

14 minutes ago, Tpikol said:

am i the only one who sees a big diference between that and having a button that does 1uy2uy3uy4uy5uy and qeues 1improve and 1 repair action for whichever tool you need without you having to look?

This would be adding 10 actions to the que, if you have the ML and the belt, I don't see how it does not fit into the current rule set. Maybe I'm not seeing something here, correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If it should be allowed or not is not the question I think currently at hand, but if it falls under the current rule set.

Edited September 16, 2021 by gnomegates