Darnok

Destructible armors & Economical loop & Priests

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2 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

I'm showing you how people behave on a daily basis, and you showed me how they behave during the holidays.

 

i and most of my friends on my server act the same as we would during the impalong all year we just have the festival so we can share with the community and all can gather and have fun and gain experince and get their favorite tools imped or be mentored in their skill so they can be better for themselves, the market is player driven supply and demand, if the devs decided to take the "money" out of the economy then trade item for item would still happen

 

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On 9/13/2021 at 4:57 AM, Darnok said:

My suggestion is to add burns for the (black/weapon/armor)smiths if they are not dressed in appropriate leather clothes and gloves near forge, the higher the quality of forge, the higher the temperature around it and the more burns.
The more difficult animal to kill, the thicker skin it should have, and the thicker the skin, the better it insulates against burns.

This outfit should be made of hides and not leather, since good quality leather can be made even from very easy to kill animals and in this outfit type of hides should matter as much as quality.

And this outfit should be made similar to a wooden staff, that means it cannot be repaired.

 

Now for the miners. Mining should generate hunger very quickly so that all this meat is eaten by someone.

 

The second idea is damage when mining metals from veins.
100ql metal mining is as safe as getting 10ql ore, wich is a bit weird. In reality the better quality of iron or coal is deeper, but since we do not have depth in mines, the chance that stones will fall on miner's head may depend on quality of vein.

The higher quality of vein, the higher chance of taking damage while mining, at 90ql vein chance for rocks fall and damage miner should be 90%, if skill mining is higher than the vein quality.

In any case where quality of vein is higher than miner's skill, chance of taking damage should be 100%. Little protection against some evil people, by the way.

 

in other words your idea is to make the game harder in general and more dangerous. in effect ostracizing any person who is just starting the game. the newbie experience with these mechanics would be speculated as follows;  say your newbie wants to get the .01501 skill ticks (typical amount of skill gain may not be accurate.) from a blacksmith grind, don't stand too close to that forge newbie, it will kill you with burns because you don't have cotton or farmers salve to heal with.  going for that 50ql ore newbie to improve your tool? be careful the mine could cave in and kill you, oh and don't forget to eat every third strike or you will starve to death. to the person that finally purchased that lovely 70ql plate chest for 3s, don't ware it into battle because if it takes damage you cant repair it or improve it because the maker put a seal on it and they have been logged off for 3 months. 

 

the economy is based and fully driven by the players, some choose to be merchants and make the big gold and some are ok with paying for that service, and imo it works fine because everyone dose have an equal opportunity to make silver in the game if they so choose and put in the work on skills, grinding bulk mats, or whatever else they wanna do, i personally designed deeds for a living. if there is a need there is a person to fill it. 

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9 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

I'm showing you how people behave on a daily basis, and you showed me how they behave during the holidays.

That’s not during the holidays lol. They are periodically throughout the year. And there is more then what I just sent. Why do you refuse to look at Wurm for its entirety? 

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On 9/13/2021 at 12:57 AM, Darnok said:

I suggest an economic experiment and a change only for armors, so that armor cannot be repaired after it has been upgraded to required quality.

 

Crafter after upgrading armor to appropriate quality, uses a seal or some similar action, and blocks any further possibility of repairing and improving armor.
Unsealed armor is treated as having ql 1.

 

Such a change would add a bit of variety and would be a good test of what economic system would be better for Wurm. The same as today that means indestructible items or the opposite.

 

As for rare, there are two possibilities:
- simply increase chance of rare armor when crafting to compensate adding this idea,
- or it should be possible to smelt armors (we also have smelting pots) to rare metal lumps, from which you can forge rare items, this action have 100% chance of success to make rare item.

 

EDIT

Economical loop

During the discussion, topic of economics and where capital flows appeared.

In my opinion, for game to be equally accessible to everyone, capital should flow in a loop so that a player with any set of skills has more or less a similar chance to get rich.

 

At the moment, I see the problem that items flow in one direction and capital flows in the opposite direction :

miner -> (black/weapon/armor)smith -> consumer (hunter, warrior, skill developing player)

 

On the way, of course, there are priests, sometimes a cook, but there is no closure and instead of a loop we have a straight line.

 

What could a hunter offer to miner or to smith?

- pelt (100ql available for free at the moment on NFI, can be obtained after killing dog with bare hands),

- meat, fish (high spear skill), furs, animal parts are worthless, because nobody needs them in large amounts and they can be obtained from animal farms,

- hides are pretty good, but from animal farm they can be gathered with even higher ql than from hunting wild animals,

 

My suggestion is to add burns for the (black/weapon/armor)smiths if they are not dressed in appropriate leather clothes and gloves near forge, the higher the quality of forge, the higher the temperature around it and the more burns.
The more difficult animal to kill, the thicker skin it should have, and the thicker the skin, the better it insulates against burns.

This outfit should be made of hides and not leather, since good quality leather can be made even from very easy to kill animals and in this outfit type of hides should matter as much as quality.

And this outfit should be made similar to a wooden staff, that means it cannot be repaired.

 

Now for the miners. Mining should generate hunger very quickly so that all this meat is eaten by someone.

 

The second idea is damage when mining metals from veins.
100ql metal mining is as safe as getting 10ql ore, wich is a bit weird. In reality the better quality of iron or coal is deeper, but since we do not have depth in mines, the chance that stones will fall on miner's head may depend on quality of vein.

The higher quality of vein, the higher chance of taking damage while mining, at 90ql vein chance for rocks fall and damage miner should be 90%, if skill mining is higher than the vein quality.

In any case where quality of vein is higher than miner's skill, chance of taking damage should be 100%. Little protection against some evil people, by the way.

 

Wounds obtained in this way should be resistant to LT weapon spell, only way to heal them should be a potion made from parts of different animals.

The more difficult animal to kill, the more quickly ingredients we get from it, should heal wounds of this type.

 

In this way, a character developing combat skills could be able to earn an upgrade of armor and weapons while hunting.

 

EDIT 2

What does a priest need so much that he would have to buy it from followers, because without it he cannot function?

 

Favor regeneration and other sources from which priests receive it could be slightly reduced.

Instead, followers could receive a spell, perhaps other than a vessel, that would take favor from living things like plants and animals and store it in gems.

 

The spell would drain favor from:

- bushes, destroying them at the same time, if bush has sprouts and it is in season, favor gain will be greater,

- trees, turning them into shriveled, just like bushes for sprouts and fruit players get more favor,

- animals, spell must be used before fight, during fight follower draining favor does not receive skill gain and after killing animal, it does not have any loot,

- other players in PvP,

- dragons (last hit gets favor),

 

Followers collecting favor while rite spell of their religion is active get a bonus.

 

Additionally, each character could be "born" with a random favorite type of favor, each type of plant and animal could have a different favor type, that would enhance his spells when he becomes priest.

Allowing priest to cast spells on items with a value above 100, and if priest would get a favor drained from dragon then his spells would...  😄

 

 

 

is it April fools again?.... A for effort, F for thought process, Not one of the "suggestions" Has had its full effects evaluated. Hell when Enki joked about something like this years ago it was far more fleshed out and considered even as a joke. As many of the reasons have already been stated I'll just say this is not well considered, wurm is already hard enough. Also I don't appreciate the critical attitude of peoples generous hosting of events, If you had any brains at all you would realize Hosting things like Impalongs takes an incredible amount of time, effort, and resources that don't just magically appear and take a long time to collect and organize, as there is a holiday every month is easy to says "oh its a holiday things." Btw reading the first paragraph of my events would clearly indicate no holiday is ever involved.

 

I am both a extensive merchant and a host of such events, the excess MONEY I make from you guys has always and even before the ban of RMT gone back into my annual event. Making this process harder if anything, further limits the amount of coin that flows thru to the event, and is more likely lost in the various coin sinks in game in the form of additional time etc... If you want to get rich quick, head to the shop and buy some coin. If you want to earn it, earn it like everyone else, get some skills and enter the player driven economy. Wurm is a game of commitment and time there is no get rich quick.

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11 hours ago, RogueCathedral said:

 

i and most of my friends on my server act the same as we would during the impalong all year we just have the festival so we can share with the community and all can gather and have fun and gain experince and get their favorite tools imped or be mentored in their skill so they can be better for themselves, the market is player driven supply and demand, if the devs decided to take the "money" out of the economy then trade item for item would still happen

 

 

Then you have nice friends.

 

But the fact that the player driven market is ok, the only problem is that every sometimes every system is going to break, so it would be nice if Devs would look at data and check whether the demand for some items is not too high, and for others too low, as it is always done in any normal game, and they could balance these ratios a bit.

Even real-world economic systems created with help of Nobel Prize winners break down over time, so it's normal for games too, but you have to react to them somehow, not pretend that such rules were sent by a higher being and they can't be changed.

 

10 hours ago, leander said:

 

in other words your idea is to make the game harder in general and more dangerous.

 

Yes, just like combat update changed combat to more difficult, but it makes it more interesting.

 

10 hours ago, leander said:

 

in effect ostracizing any person who is just starting the game. the newbie experience with these mechanics would be speculated as follows;  say your newbie wants to get the .01501 skill ticks (typical amount of skill gain may not be accurate.) from a blacksmith grind, don't stand too close to that forge newbie, it will kill you with burns because you don't have cotton or farmers salve to heal with.

 

I don't know about the others, but at the time I was able to build a forge, I already knew a few things about game.
Besides, there are many games in which if a player stands on a campfire he will burn for while, so here it would hardly be a surprise, for me it was a surprise that there is no such mechanism in Wurm.

 

10 hours ago, leander said:

 

  going for that 50ql ore newbie to improve your tool? be careful the mine could cave in and kill you,

 

I have not written anywhere that one hit of stones would kill, only that it would hurt character, so soon enough a player would notice that he takes damage when extracting ore.

And someone with 50 level of mining skill is not noob. But if noob wants to mine ore out of 100ql vein then game should stop him or at least slow him down as much as possible.

 

10 hours ago, leander said:

 

 oh and don't forget to eat every third strike or you will starve to death. to the person that finally purchased that lovely 70ql plate chest for 3s, don't ware it into battle because if it takes damage you cant repair it or improve it because the maker put a seal on it and they have been logged off for 3 months. 

 

We have tons of food, what's the point if no profession needs large amounts of food?

The armor of 70ql does not fall apart in one day, so please no exaggeration, besides, there are many armorers.

 

10 hours ago, leander said:

the economy is based and fully driven by the players, some choose to be merchants and make the big gold and some are ok with paying for that service, and imo it works fine because everyone dose have an equal opportunity to make silver in the game if they so choose and put in the work on skills, grinding bulk mats, or whatever else they wanna do, i personally designed deeds for a living. if there is a need there is a person to fill it. 

 

Technically speaking, there is no player-driven economy in any game, and there will never be a player-driven economy, because the Devs set rules and features of every game, so this is in-game-rules-driven economics.

As a player I can't invent a new studded leather armor with addition of furs and start selling it, I can only sell what the rules of the game allow me and they limit need for some items.

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55 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Devs would look at data and check whether the demand for some items is not too high,

The dev's don't control the economy. The economy is player driven.

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On 9/16/2021 at 9:47 AM, Darnok said:

And what was development and growth of Eve online in which player "flies with what he can afford to lose" and nobody cares about something as artificial as attachment to pixels?

Something interesting you may not know darnok, Humans form attachments - real people, objects, ideas - even imaginary pixel items. its part of our nature to do so, you cant deny someone that.

 

18 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

I'm showing you how people behave on a daily basis, and you showed me how they behave during the holidays.

humans do what humans do - what you want us to do has no bearing on anything we actually do. Everyone is an individual. you have to learn to let other people be other people.
 

4 hours ago, brattygirl said:

The dev's don't control the economy. The economy is player driven.

for all intents and purposes you might as well call the entire game player driven, however the community as a whole is a major aspect for that; having a divided community has caused issues in Wurm's past,  even if you only see it as just smaller communities in Wurm having to deal with each other. The developers dont bother with the economy because it is really out of their control for the most part. 

my point here is that Everyone is an individual, but this is also a community of them. Individuals will do what they want, when they want, and how they see fit at that time. Player Choice is the mechanism behind economy here: can we leave that alone please?

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Bulk building materials are in need.. normally..

 

You might only need 1 armor.. if you prefer one or for some reason prefer certain type.. you can change that later on.. like moving from steel plate to iron plate.. if you find finding steel smith hard.. or unnecessarily expensive, etc.. better casts, better rarity, some break tools/armor by accident, misplace, lose them.. or get robbed on pve or pvp by "friends", etc..

 

Even if it doesn't seem likely.. it's possible to use only 1-2 hammers or go through thousands... depends how you play and through what you 'live' while playing the game.

 

There are plenty of ways to make some coin... depends what you want to/could/ do, forcing new ways without learning the existing.. idk doesn't sound like the best approach, you might be missing easier way to achieve riches compared to what you suggest as time and effort to get same wealth.

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