Darnok

Darnok's creature suggestions

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1 hour ago, Skatyna said:

add purchasable mounts that never die and cannot be killed in pvp, also could not be bred. 1 trait = 1 silver. so we can buy the horse we can afford with as many traits as we need and dont have to worry about it. Its good for game revenue too. Alternatively, who wants to mess around breeding - can still do that 🤣

 

It is enough what I have just described and breeders will not be able to produce several dozen animals with high trait in a short time. But players like me who use horses for riding will be able faster train and breed few animals for themselves with a high speed trait.

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

It is enough what I have just described and breeders will not be able to produce several dozen animals with high trait in a short time. But players like me who use horses for riding will be able faster train and breed few animals for themselves with a high speed trait.

With this post, it seems you just want to knock out the middle man and let every player breed for themselves, even though they already can? 

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5 minutes ago, Gawain said:

With this post, it seems you just want to knock out the middle man and let every player breed for themselves, even though they already can? 

 

No, I am just saying that if you are you actively using your horse as a rider or draft horses and you drive a wagon a lot, you should be able to raise a small number of high trait animals faster than person who is going into mass production, but is not leaving his deed almost ever.

I don't see anything wrong with that, because more work should reward you more in Wurm. Right now, riding a horse more often, than player that is leveling up AH like crazy, makes you gain nothing, while horse breeder earns everything for selling his horses.

It seems to me that whether you breed one or two horses with good traits for yourself should be a matter of player's choice, while now you are forced to buy fast horse, because you are not able to grow the maximum trait from farm of few animals, you have to go for large scale production and you have to go for it early after map starts, because if you are late there is no more wild horses for you.

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32 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

And what was the conclusion drawn from this research? Maybe that Wurm veterans children will like to stare at the wall if you display progress bar in there? 🙂

you literally suggest tier upgrade system, 1+1 =2, 2+1 = maybe 3 etc... and spice it with rng debuff that comes instantly without way to prevent it.. other than playing 24/7 and taking your pixel dog on a walk.. or it develops a bad trait...

what kind of bull.. is that, who would play that.. any 5-9yo around to pay subscription for tamagocci emulator online?

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my thought is.. you're ~30-40/+ an old book-game fan who just is old for current time and imagines hardcore and investing 24/7 time into a game is the way to go, these browser games are cancer - time sinks, you're not suggesting any improvement to a system, you keep suggesting nerf/debuff and no way to improve state of gameplay with the backbone of the game - skills and raising them to get better(even if that is not so much for all mechanics and skills as it is in WO)

 

what do you think this game is about, spending hours and having a todo timer schedule for tasks online in a game?

this is not the damn eve online you've adopted as main game or whatever other browser 'game' you play in your "spare" time+

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Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, Finnn said:

you literally suggest tier upgrade system, 1+1 =2, 2+1 = maybe 3 etc... and spice it with rng debuff that comes instantly without way to prevent it.. other than playing 24/7 and taking your pixel dog on a walk.. or it develops a bad trait...

what kind of bull.. is that, who would play that.. any 5-9yo around to pay subscription for tamagocci emulator online?

 

You don't need to take your fast pokemons for a walk, just build them pen large enough, so they could run around.

Take dogs, for example, they didn't evolve into hunting dogs because humans kept them in cages, but because people use them during hunting. If realism is important in Wurm take it as example.

Edited by Darnok

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Posted (edited)

Yes!

 

Let's argue about whether everyone's understanding of genetics is or is not apparently invalidated by some research whose interpretation is... open to interpretation.

 

Rather than, say, whether this suggestion would make breeding incredibly slow and intensive and thus raise the prices of quality horses by orders of magnitude.

Edited by Sheffie

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1 minute ago, Sheffie said:

Yes!

 

Let's argue about whether everyone's understanding of genetics is or is not apparently invalidated by some research whose interpretation is... open to interpretation.

 

Rather than, say, whether this suggestion would make breeding incredibly slow and intensive and thus raise the prices of quality horses by orders of magnitude.

 

Prices would probably stay the same, but trade relations would change 🙂
Mass producers would buy horses from players like me, who quickly trained 1 or 2 fast horses, which would allow breeders to create a new generation with better (higher tier) traits on their mass production farms. And then they would normally earn by selling them to those players who did not want to breed horses on their own. Active players would be valuable suppliers of trained animals, not only consumers.

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

You don't need to take your fast pokemons for a walk, just build them pen large enough, so they could run around.

Take dogs, for example, they didn't evolve into hunting dogs because humans kept them in cages, but because people use them during hunting. If realism is important in Wurm take it as example.

no

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1 hour ago, Sheffie said:

Yes!

 

Let's argue about whether everyone's understanding of genetics is or is not apparently invalidated by some research whose interpretation is... open to interpretation.

 

Rather than, say, whether this suggestion would make breeding incredibly slow and intensive and thus raise the prices of quality horses by orders of magnitude.

who cares if it raises prices if nobody wants to play the game that way

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1 minute ago, Finnn said:

who cares if it raises prices if nobody wants to play the game that way

This. Not few players abandoned AH already due to the recent "improvements". Suggestions to make them worse won't prolly help.

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1 hour ago, Sheffie said:

Yes!

 

Let's argue about whether everyone's understanding of genetics is or is not apparently invalidated by some research whose interpretation is... open to interpretation.

 

Rather than, say, whether this suggestion would make breeding incredibly slow and intensive and thus raise the prices of quality horses by orders of magnitude.

Yes, well why not.  It's no less sensible or productive than the suggestion itself.  😄.   Just showing that no matter what bizarre rabbit hole the conversation goes down, there will not be a single backward step.

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Erm ... does anyone else remember reading an ~April-1st topic (posted years back) written by a staff member with a sense of humour, where it was suggested (amongst other things) that we ride our horses in circles in a pen of specific size, in order to unlock hidden traits?

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Drayka said:

Erm ... does anyone else remember reading an ~April-1st topic (posted years back) written by a staff member with a sense of humour, where it was suggested (amongst other things) that we ride our horses in circles in a pen of specific size, in order to unlock hidden traits?

 

What if training-skill-gain wouldn't increase on deeds or horse would count unique tiles he visited 😉

 

Large farms with dozens of animals consume server resources a lot more than a few average players, and they also exhaust the limit of animals that can spawn. Why don't you like the idea that promotes smaller breeders who would use less server load and actively use the resources they have collected (caught animals)?

Edited by Darnok

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7 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

Large farms with dozens of animals consume server resources a lot more than a few average players

 

 

Animals don't run clients.

Animals don't have input devices.

Animals run very short and simple code and require very little data and bandwidth.

 

Unusual claims require unusual evidence.

What if anything do you have to back up this assertion?

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7 hours ago, Darnok said:

Why don't you like the idea that promotes smaller breeders who would use less server load and actively use the resources they have collected (caught animals)?

 

I haven't stated an opinion for or against it. I have recalled that a staff member thought it would be an excellent April-fool's to claim that Wurm had built-in environmental effects on horse traits that no player had ever discovered, because players weren't willing to put the realistic-effort in to 'train' the horses they had bred by riding them in circles in a pen of specified size until those traits unlocked. And that makes me wary of the Development Team's opinion of such mechanics.

 

I haven't stated an opinion, because the priorities and objectives of small (or large) simulated businesses is quite frankly, none of my business. I'm not part of that culture and I respect that my opinion on the matter is that of an outsider.

 

I also accept that you have given little to no thought to the effect on PvPers, since this is not your culture. I respect that expecting you to be able to make suggestions that take PvP culture and mechanics into account at this time, would be grossly unreasonable.

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5 minutes ago, Drayka said:

 

I haven't stated an opinion for or against it. I have recalled that a staff member thought it would be an excellent April-fool's to claim that Wurm had built-in environmental effects on horse traits that no player had ever discovered, because players weren't willing to put the realistic-effort in to 'train' the horses they had bred by riding them in circles in a pen of specified size until those traits unlocked. And that makes me wary of the Development Team's opinion of such mechanics.

 

I haven't stated an opinion, because the priorities and objectives of small (or large) simulated businesses is quite frankly, none of my business. I'm not part of that culture and I respect that my opinion on the matter is that of an outsider.

 

I also accept that you have given little to no thought to the effect on PvPers, since this is not your culture. I respect that expecting you to be able to make suggestions that take PvP culture and mechanics into account at this time, would be grossly unreasonable.

 

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Darnok said:

[Clinton Anderson YouTube link]

Thank-you, but I've already read many of his books and I'm familiar with his understanding of the subject of horse-training.

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1 hour ago, Sheffie said:

 

 

Animals don't run clients.

Animals don't have input devices.

Animals run very short and simple code and require very little data and bandwidth.

 

Unusual claims require unusual evidence.

What if anything do you have to back up this assertion?

 

So 4 players with 20 animals per deed is using more server resources than single player with 100 animals on deed?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Darnok said:

So 4 players with 20 animals per deed is using more server resources than single player with 100 animals on deed?

 

I'm no expert, but based on first-hand experiences, I would say that 4 players with 8 animals between them seem to use more server resources than 1 player with over a hundred animals.

Edited by Drayka
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technically speaking, a player collecting animals creates 0 server lag. There's a set amount of mobs on a server, as you can see in the graphs. say for example cele has 26k mobs and 1 person, if this one player hoards 1k animals in his deed, there's still 26k animals on the server, but only 25k of them are wild. If anything, the animals are often hitched or put into a pen, reducing/removing their pathfinding ai using cpu cycles, which would reduce server lag.

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not exactly true.. trolls actively look for way out of their fencing, being fences or walls.. they will try to look for a way out and bash a wall here and there.. so they do - do their thing... as for other animals.. they do the same(want example.. recent bug with creature not where it it hitched.. and once unhitched it storms for 20-30+ tiles away where it's target food tile is) .. with hunger checks, but are prevented with their pathfindings to reach the food.. so.. yea.. fun story, we now have the override that pulls animals first to feeders rather than random tile to graze.. but rest of the code probably is the same.. for wild animals

if there any heavy impact... we'd hear about it...

 

bottom line... if deeds and hordes of animals on them were server issue - that would be CCAB issue to solve with more coding and optimizations, rather than forcing players and rng killing their creatures(*)... it's part of the deal and all bonuses to animals ondeed, along with the limitations like creature per tile.. and *debuffs that impact all creatures and certain events if that is below 15.. etc etc.. blah blah...

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Drayka said:

 

I'm no expert, but based on first-hand experiences, I would say that 4 players with 8 animals between them seem to use more server resources than 1 player with over a hundred animals.

 

The difference is that these 4 players use these 8 animals for playing game, and this one keeps them only so that the others cannot get them or you can say he is collecting pokemons for profit 🙂

Edited by Darnok

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5 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

technically speaking, a player collecting animals creates 0 server lag. There's a set amount of mobs on a server, as you can see in the graphs. say for example cele has 26k mobs and 1 person, if this one player hoards 1k animals in his deed, there's still 26k animals on the server, but only 25k of them are wild. If anything, the animals are often hitched or put into a pen, reducing/removing their pathfinding ai using cpu cycles, which would reduce server lag.

 

The question is whether the pen limiting movement also limits the CPU consumption when the animal code for movement triggers.
And I'm curious if there is a statistic saying how many wild animals there are and how many are on deeds or branded?

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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

and this one keeps them only so that the others cannot get them

Go visit the Harvestmoon alliance - see the animals that are penned NOT to prevent access but contrariwise to facilitate access.  Oh, you can't because you don't and won't play.

 

Do us all a favour and don't go visiting the motives of people who are playing a game with which you are not even involved. 

 

Also the question is NOT "whether the pen limiting movement also limits CPU consumption" but whether you can back up "Large farms with dozens of animals consume server resources a lot more than a few average players."

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