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Darnok

Darnok's creature suggestions

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8 hours ago, Darnok said:

Btw I'd love to see 100 duels of players with the same skill and equipment, but using different fighting styles (aggressive vs normal, aggressive vs defensive, normal vs defensive).

aggressive runs out of stamina against anyone using a shield in the other two stances and loses unless they rng into a couple of hits at the start of the fight. Enki's lost spars on a 99 every skill 99 every characteristic toon while using all fantastic scale and a fantastic huge age against people running shields.

8 hours ago, Darnok said:

130% dmg, faster attack speed and more accurate hits... I guess nothing else can be added to make this fighting style more overpowered.

it's a chance to do 133% damage based on your agg fighting vs their cr (against a unique aggressive will do no extra damage compared to normal fighting, and can only happen once every 10 seconds), the swing speed is only for two handers which are balanced around trading defensive stats for aggressive, and you need 70 aggressive fighting to get 1 cr which is basically nothing (if you had 50% hit chance in normal you'd have 51.6% chance in aggressive). you're really overselling aggressive fighting, people only use it for pve because LT is broken and you can just back out and slap a sheep to full heal/cotton if you ever get wounded.

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On 8/23/2021 at 8:58 AM, Darnok said:

 

Why should the information that a dragon will appear on the map be bad?
In that case, I propose to remove the deed creation and expiration global message.

 

It isn't bad. It made it so that experienced unique finders would be able to quickly get it before anyone else. It's much more interesting now, when you can come across one while exploring.

 

On 8/23/2021 at 8:58 AM, Darnok said:

I wrote that dragons should not fit in mines, so if you feel threatened in winter, you can always hide there.

I also do not understand, unique attacked structures or you standing behind the structures?

I see why anyone would find this interesting - it's nice to have those disruptive events in games, and for me the champion troll king thing was really engaging. Exactly what I want from MMOs no scripted quests, just unexpected events like this.

But having a dragon intently going around to grief people on the server it's another level of disruption that some people might not enjoy. And burning down forrests, howses and killing animals would not be ok with a lot of players, I imagine. 

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On 8/25/2021 at 1:17 PM, Hailiah said:

I do like the refinement of Goblins, but rather make a specialised goblin a rarer spawn. So you have Goblin miner, Goblin Fisher, Goblin cook, Goblin mason, goblin leatherworker, goblin priest ...brainstorm etc

and when you kill them they drop related loot (or more rarely related tools), Goblin miner = random ore, stone, random metal pickaxe, Goblin mason = random bricks, stone, slabs, random metal stone chisel, Goblin cook, random meats/butchered/filleted/diced, seeds or herbs or veg, random cooking container/tool

That way they fit into already existing game mechanics.

 

I am not convinced of such a division of goblins. I like my idea of different tribes inhabiting different parts of the map more.

 

Each tribe could have different items and skin color:
- slingshot/bow (piercing + ranged),
- spear (piercing + bonus vs riders),
- crude axe + small wooden shield (slashing + good defence),
- 1-handed spiked club + whip (crushing/piercing and whip can scare a horse, making it run in a random direction for 3-4 tiles).

 

As a tribal structure, goblins could also have leaders and shamans.
Tribe leaders could have crude leather armor, 2-handed axes/spiked clubs/mauls and wolf head helmet (that can be looted).

While shamans could cast 1-2 offensive spells and drop bull skull helmet or human skull, which he would wear as a shield.

The unique goblin leader could be a wolf rider.

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQU0Hlat-IvCUgrPSJBcA9

 

Alternatively, you could have different forms of contract with the goblins, if goblins were so varied in terms of weapons used and stats.

Then player could also hire goblin in form of a mercenary, he could put on goblin armors and weapons, for example short bow/short sword/small axe/small maul (small weapons that are not very popular among players anyway) and leather armor.
However items that mercenary goblin is equipped with should wear out very quickly.
Diversity among goblins and their stats would give option that depending on player's playstyle he would choose a mercenary that complements his character. If you want to practice archery, you choose a mercenary goblin tank with a shield.

If you are leveling up 1h weapon + shield skill you hire archer or shaman and their hits would also give you skill gain.

 

On 8/25/2021 at 1:31 PM, Hailiah said:

Beavers, nice and unusual idea for a new creature.

I agree make the dam like a beehive, but simplify your idea to again fit with game mechanics.

So you can loot from the dam itself, logs, branches, twigs, shafts...woodscraps etc of the quality of the dam, which is nicer for new players and gives them a chance to get higher ql wood etc without unbalancing the game too much.

If they implement the creature itself, the butchered stuff would have to be what's already in game to fit with cooking/crafting already in place, so fur, game meat, and teeth.

 

Ok

 

On 8/25/2021 at 1:36 PM, Hailiah said:

Wolfdog

I think most of that might be covered by the new breeding stuff we have. We can breed wolves and dogs separately for traits we want and we can already tame both as pets.

However if they ever bring in dogs and wolves with breedable appearances (like donkeys, mules, horses, colours shapes sizes etc) then yeah breeding wolves with dogs might be workable.

 

More mule-like hybrids, wolfdog should also have some sort of barding that would slightly reduce damage it takes if player were using it as a pet to fight.

And he should be able to bury bodies of animals after player takes all loot.

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Updated OP sterilization.

You guys don't understand that I don't dislike any group, I just want to play a balanced game where each role/profession has more than one playstyle.

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27 minutes ago, Idlamn said:

It isn't bad. It made it so that experienced unique finders would be able to quickly get it before anyone else. It's much more interesting now, when you can come across one while exploring.

 

I see why anyone would find this interesting - it's nice to have those disruptive events in games, and for me the champion troll king thing was really engaging. Exactly what I want from MMOs no scripted quests, just unexpected events like this.

But having a dragon intently going around to grief people on the server it's another level of disruption that some people might not enjoy. And burning down forrests, howses and killing animals would not be ok with a lot of players, I imagine. 

 

ONLY during winter 😄

Winter would turn into one big dragon hunting event, at the moment players are complaining that winter is boring and has even been made shorter (or is that just my feeling about last winter?).

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6 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

you're really overselling aggressive fighting, people only use it for pve because LT is broken and you can just back out and slap a sheep to full heal/cotton if you ever get wounded.

Agreed, LT is super-broken against wildlife. But it's the only Fo enchant anyone will ask for apart from Courier. Mailboxes aren't enough to keep you in premium-time, and serious PvE breeders need an in-house Genesis caster. But a decent LT cast means you can literally hunt all-day without needing to carry cotton.

 

But the only way you'd win against another player, using an LT two-hander in aggressive-stance, is by there being a lot of you versus one person with a shield.

 

Or a newbie trying to distract you. Can't remember if he had a shield, but he still died to the wildlife once I realised it was only a newbie in homemade plate attacking me. Bit surreal.

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On 8/20/2021 at 12:57 PM, Darnok said:

Later dragon lays eggs and remains non-aggressive until the following winter, then he starts to burn forests, houses, pens

You lost me there. Good suggestion overall but a big minus to anything that implies ruining people's work.


You might not know this but there is a mechanic on Epic related to Valrei Scenarios. At the end of a scenario, the winning god can spawn a "terraforming beam" which is a bright light similar to a rift light that randomly traverses a spot on the map. 


The beam can create a crater, it can create a "scar" in the land, it can level a deed to water level or it can raise a mountain or a peak from a flat field. 

 

I've seen quite a few deeds in my time on Epic completely ruined by a terraforming event. I've seen 2 deeds, one on old Affliction and one on Desertion utterly leveled below water level. Two deeds completely rendered innacessible due to a boat not being able to pass through underwater walls. Lot of work lost to RNG. 

 

Such is / was the risk on living on Epic. Freedom does not have Valrei Scenarios. 

 

People play on Freedom for the sense of security and stability. Anything that endangers that will upset people. It's bad enough at times that rifts can ruin a nice spot on the map, but this is too much. 

 

I agree with dragons randomly attacking players from the sky. Some sense of danger is nice. 

 

I do like and support the idea of a dragon hoard, perhaps made as a cooperative event to reach it to foster a sense of working together instead of personal gain.

Edited by elentari
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9 minutes ago, elentari said:

You might not know this but there is a mechanic on Epic related to Valrei Scenarios. At the end of a scenario, the winning god can spawn a "terraforming beam" which is a bright light similar to a rift light that randomly traverses a spot on the map. 


The beam can create a crater, it can create a "scar" in the land, it can level a deed to water level or it can raise a mountain or a peak from a flat field. 

 

I've seen quite a few deeds in my time on Epic completely ruined by a terraforming event. I've seen 2 deeds, one on old Affliction and one on Desertion utterly leveled below water level. Two deeds completely rendered innacessible due to a boat not being able to pass through underwater walls. Lot of work lost to RNG. 

 

Such is / was the risk on living on Epic. Freedom does not have Valrei Scenarios. 

I remember being afraid of those as my place was undeeded, then while I was away a giant Mag spire appeared like 100-200m away from my place. We thought it was cool because we could build on top of it, but then again it kinda ruined the awesome scenery.

But happening to deeds also? I thought it was only for undeeded areas. Now I'm scared.

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3 hours ago, Idlamn said:

But happening to deeds also? I thought it was only for undeeded areas. Now I'm scared.

I am not sure if the code has been revamped for that in the past few years but suffice to say I haven't heard of any deeds being hit in the last 4-5 years on Epic. 

But yeah in the past deeds could get hit and they did get hit. 

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"Oh yea, LT is really broken" with rifts and lava/ice DoTs.. 1 lt hit in several swings.. to heal biggest 1 wound from  20+, such help.., meanwhile you have several creatures on you causing extra damage and aoe ogres.. karma spells.. "balanced" .. when it heals for half of what the player causes as damage in hitpoints and not just HP %.. then we might be on same opinion.

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Darnok, your vision is really wasted on all this minutiae. You are clearly ready for your own kickstarter project. I sense a Chris Roberts 2.0 in you.

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This idea that players should have "choice" and that the game should be "balanced" is just missing the point.

 

Players already have choices. Why do so many players run around with an LT sickle, or a huge axe in aggressive mode, or a metal staff? Because after research and experimentation, each of those options was at one time considered to be the most effective.

 

But why doesn't everybody?

 

Because players already do have a choice. There are lots of playstyles that are viable. Just as there are several weapons that are widely considered the "best choices", so there are many that are perfectly good — just as there are different ways of raising animals. Many or most people are naturally going to tend to gravitate towards whatever is generally judged to be the most efficient. And there will be many who don't.

 

Now, what do you suppose is going to happen if you change the balance of livestock farming?

 

(Aside from a bunch of people getting pissed off)

 

There's going to be a bunch of research and experimentation and then a new consensus is going to emerge about the most efficient way to raise animals. And guess what? A lot of people are going to do exactly that. Some people are going to do their own thing, just as they do now. But many, or most, will adopt whatever they think is best.

 

In other words.... even if your proposal doesn't suck... you may find that plus ça change, plus que la même chose — the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Edited by Sheffie
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3 hours ago, Sheffie said:

This idea that players should have "choice" and that the game should be "balanced" is just missing the point.

 

Players already have choices. Why do so many players run around with an LT sickle, or a huge axe in aggressive mode, or a metal staff? Because after research and experimentation, each of those options was at one time considered to be the most effective.

 

Aggressive style + two-handed axe = fastest way to kill a mob and highest skill gain and best quality of resources

There is no choice here, just one playstyle.

 

With my idea:
Aggressive style + two-handed axe = fastest way to kill a mob and highest skill gain and lowest quality of raw materials

Aggressive style + any weapon = above average way to kill mob and high skill gain and low quality of raw materials

Defensive style + any weapon = slow way to kill mob and lowest skill gain and average quality of raw materials (In "Tactical redesign..." I suggested that this style should regenerate stamina, so it would rather be for tanks or escaping, not killing mobs)

Normal style + any weapon = average way to kill mob and average skill gain and above average quality of raw materials

Normal style + bows/spears/swords = average way to kill mob and average skill gain and best quality of raw materials

 

Can you see many choices?

 

Quote

 

But why doesn't everybody?

 

Because players already do have a choice. There are lots of playstyles that are viable. Just as there are several weapons that are widely considered the "best choices", so there are many that are perfectly good — just as there are different ways of raising animals. Many or most people are naturally going to tend to gravitate towards whatever is generally judged to be the most efficient. And there will be many who don't.

 

What different ways? Name some 🙂

 

Quote

Now, what do you suppose is going to happen if you change the balance of livestock farming?

 

 

The game will be balanced and will allow less active players with large deeds to achieve the same result as active players with smaller deed.
Where do you see the problem and limitation here?

Right now deed size is a limit that cannot be passed in any way.

 

It seems to me that if there was a sterilization option, as I proposed in OP, no one would be pissed off, because whoever would train or passively grow better traits could earn good money and his work cannot be copied by other breeders.

 

Choices again?

 

Probably active players training 1-2 animals would be first to get good traits, but they would not have a large herd size, so they could not breed these animals quickly,

but not very active breeders with a large deed would have large herds (like right now), but a little slower would achieve very high traits, but once they are at high traits level they can mass produce lots of animals for sale.

 

And again?

 

An active player with a small herd would feed the animals himself during the winter, but he couldn't sell that many animals each day.
A less active player with a large herd would have to pay for the hay in winter, but would have more animals for sale in warm seasons.

 

And again?

 

Edited by Darnok

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Or you know, we could stick to what we know and like and not change it?

If there's nothing good to come from it, why break it?

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You've asserted that there no choice, but you are simply wrong. Plenty of people hunt using other weapons and other fighting styles.

 

Some people also raise and keep animals differently. For example, animals may be kept in an open field of enchanted grass, or at hitching posts where food is provided to them, or in a barn or stable where food is in bowls.

 

You're just wrong.

Edited by Sheffie
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9 hours ago, Darnok said:

Aggressive style + two-handed axe = fastest way to kill a mob and highest skill gain and best quality of resources

 

Thanks for the laugh, that was a good one

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On 8/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, elentari said:

You lost me there. Good suggestion overall but a big minus to anything that implies ruining people's work.

 

 

I wrote that they are safe for 3/4 of the year, because the dragon will not attack anyone, and during winter players can take refuge in the mines.
Only winter would be the dragon hunting season.

 

On 8/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, elentari said:


You might not know this but there is a mechanic on Epic related to Valrei Scenarios. At the end of a scenario, the winning god can spawn a "terraforming beam" which is a bright light similar to a rift light that randomly traverses a spot on the map. 


The beam can create a crater, it can create a "scar" in the land, it can level a deed to water level or it can raise a mountain or a peak from a flat field. 

 

 

So if a group of players starts to act like dumb zombies... and charge dragon from one direction, he can take to the air and burn them?

 

06709b5b61d2db5f-600x338.png

 

On 8/27/2021 at 11:30 AM, elentari said:

 

People play on Freedom for the sense of security and stability. Anything that endangers that will upset people. It's bad enough at times that rifts can ruin a nice spot on the map, but this is too much. 

 

PvE it does not mean 100% security, but no threat from other players.

 

 

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I can't see what has been added, but I do see that the thread title has been changed, again.  

 

I get that one thought leads to another, and occasionally a change of title is good to aid clarity, but I think new ideas would be better in new threads.

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On 8/29/2021 at 8:15 PM, Darnok said:

PvE it does not mean 100% security,

 Security implies that your deed will be there as you left it. 

 

Which is not the case for PvP. 

 

On PvE the worst that can happen to your deed is that some dragon spawns next to it and bashes down some walls. But if a dragon spawns and starts to eat your horses, or ruins your deed, pretty sure many will be upset about that. It's a delicate balance to thread. 

 

On one hand I agree that dragons  / uniques on PvE aren't dangerous anymore. They are simply farmed content at this point where 100+ players bumrush them and kill them in 60 seconds. 

 

Uniques should be an update in their own right, made perhaps with mobs that they can spawn for defence ( similar to a Rift Warmaster). Some people have suggested implemented points or DKP to distribute scales / hide. DKP = dragon kill points , which is a system in some games that measures your contribution to the fight. 

Currently uniques are little more than an event that only brings profit and dilluted rewards, no challenge to them anymore, no sense of real danger, you can easily outrun them on horseback or ask for help in handling them. 

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On 8/28/2021 at 1:42 AM, Josso said:

Darnok, your vision is really wasted on all this minutiae. You are clearly ready for your own kickstarter project. I sense a Chris Roberts 2.0 in you.

I always thought that at some point, maybe 10-20 yrs from now hopefully, something will need to fill in the void left by the end of WO.

Maybe then a kickstarter project signed by Darnok will emerge. :)

Hope he doesn't make that game as brutal and as unforgiving as described in his suggestions. I'd personally like to see more random events and stuff in games that will change the player's plan, but I can't imagine a whole lot of people would like this.

Edited by Idlamn
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On 8/25/2021 at 6:02 AM, Sheffie said:

 

Apparently you find Wurm boring.

 

Like many players who found out about Wurm from steam and is playing with single character.

 

On 8/25/2021 at 6:02 AM, Sheffie said:

This isn't something you're going to be able to change from the suggestions and ideas forum.

A better idea would be to find a game that you like, and let the people who like Wurm, enjoy Wurm.

 

So why is this section on forum? If suggestions do not change anything, it would be better for everyone to remove entire section from forum.

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On 8/31/2021 at 9:54 AM, elentari said:

On PvE the worst that can happen to your deed is that some dragon spawns next to it and bashes down some walls. But if a dragon spawns and starts to eat your horses, or ruins your deed, pretty sure many will be upset about that. It's a delicate balance to thread. 

 

The solution is simple, the dragon cannot attack the deed if no citizen is online.

 

On 8/31/2021 at 9:54 AM, elentari said:

On one hand I agree that dragons  / uniques on PvE aren't dangerous anymore. They are simply farmed content at this point where 100+ players bumrush them and kill them in 60 seconds. 

 

Uniques should be an update in their own right, made perhaps with mobs that they can spawn for defence ( similar to a Rift Warmaster). Some people have suggested implemented points or DKP to distribute scales / hide. DKP = dragon kill points , which is a system in some games that measures your contribution to the fight. 

Currently uniques are little more than an event that only brings profit and dilluted rewards, no challenge to them anymore, no sense of real danger, you can easily outrun them on horseback or ask for help in handling them. 

 

Yes they should receive a large update. What is the point of calling a mob unique if you fight each "unique" in exactly the same way?

In most games, fighting a boss requires using unique tactics, but not here 😕

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This is not typical grindy mmorpg.. it's sandbox.. you can't expect people to make items costing a lot of time to toss a dice and lose them, like the net usage.

I stopped reading there, you're unfamiliar with what is hosted on this website/forum/game.

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On 8/24/2021 at 7:52 AM, Sheffie said:

Complexity of development = moderate to high

Artist cost = high

Testing requirement = considerable

Overall potential to introduce bugs = significant

Benefits to player base = meh

I agree 

-1

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