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Darnok

Darnok's travel and exploration suggestions

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

Hehe sure they are, until I want to spend a few days leveling up woodcutting and cut 1/3 of the trees beyond deeds on the whole map.

 

Pvp portal - Wurmpedia I dare you to try to cut down 1/3 of all trees beyond Kingdom Influence on the whole server, for skillgain. It would take a lot more than 'a few days'. I'm not sure it's even possible to achieve, given that the tree lifecycle is increased on at-least Defiance PvP server.

 

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

I am a hunter, so my neighbors are...


(everyone)

 

And to be serious, if someone is looking for raw materials and does not notice your deed, they can mine tunnel 10 tiles on your entrance or cut trees nearby, I know that what is beyond deed is for everyone, but it's rather not polite behavior.

 

😶

 

Theoretically those lands belong to the Wurm Online King (referred to in Settlement - Wurmpedia).

By founding a deed you become the equivalent of his churl (Churl - Wikipedia) which is the lowest rank of freeman in the Anglo-Saxon era.

This situation is not the same as living on RL private-property next to a modern, RL, government-owned Anything, thus the RL rules of polite behaviour in "1st-world countries" are debatable at best, dubious at worst.

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id like to see more rainy stormy weather yes like the old days. storms could damage all the stuff lying around we cant get rid of eg old carts n things oh yeh most important erosion of the under water banks my boats get stuck on that people seem to make all over the place

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Sounds a bit like the Valheim sailings mechanics, which btw I love but they're also in need of a lot of work. It's pretty easy to lose a boat in Valheim, albeit mostly due to buggy mechanics or lazy coding. The idea is there but needs a loooot of polish. 


I do love the idea of sailing being a skill, a ship taking damage if it's improperly navigated. Capsizing I think would be maybe a bit too extreme for beginners but other than that I do feel the seas are really too tame and empty. We don't really have any waves in game, the water level stays the same no matter what. This might present some coding challenges in the long run since it would have need of collision detection (wave length, height, angle, speed, boat ql, navigation skill) which sadly....Wurm isn't great at. 

 

Collision in Wurm is wonky at best, and a buggy nightmare at worst. (How many times have you bumped into a mine wall and got kicked off horse?) 

 

Overall good suggestion, hope to see something of the like implemented. 

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I'll hope and pray it doesn't become a thing...

 

we're far from crazy 'sea of thieves' waves and boat dynamics with wind and waves.. (that said.. the idk what/shen.. wave and water change samool introduced at some point was amazing visual upgrade), it's just sad that wurm when looking good sucks the living hell out of the hardware.. idk if it's engine limitation or somehow engine is draining more power than it should, to me it seems like it draws in real time rendered graphics, shadows and updates everything way too often than it should really, among with few odd stuff like fog in caves, sun and planet drawing reflection underground and having planet reflections past a mountain where sight of view does not allow it.. not too breaking but not making much sense as it is.. and some of that can be prevented with the skip code like how we now don't have rain indoors when you get in a building.

 

I'd rather see some better wind mechanics alone, lantern on boat that helps you see a bit further around you(will be especially good for fog weather), we could definitely use some basic boat movement like err.. I think the witcher/assassin creed have , trashing the boat.... leave that to things like the sea serpent.. but we could use mechanics like throwing easy to make carpentry spears that quickly decay in water, within 24hours(carpentry staves are weapons, top ql+rng.. to make same could be for spear/harpoon shots?), and yea.. maybe harpoons to fish whales.. same ones.. and loot actual fish to butcher like fishing ones... for many filets.. what you pickup could just be controlled by how it's killed.. with a weapon or harpoon start to end.. to get as we get currently the big-tuna bodies as decoration(huge stinky effigy on some lighthouse/tower/house/etc..) or 'fish' that you can filet for many pieces and skill.

 

we're way aside from weather and other bullsh.. env troll mechanics, and collision will be disgusting to deal with.... lets wait first for docks content.. and see if we can prepare places to moor.. even with that.. it will suck to park a boat with current controls to command a boat and just wind messing with you etc.. you barely have any control over movement.. to ask for collision and damage, + amount that a boat takes... the damage you can ask for something to cause to the boat.. is minimal at best.. and at most.. you can ask for boat remaining at 80% damage(nothing could possibly damage it further but decay ticks?), at which point - you need to park somewhere and repair it, but no collision/monster/etc.. should be able to damage it further.. that is the realistic line you have to stop at.. to be reasonable, realism isn't fun, and punishing somebody have to have a line you don't cross 

Edited by Finnn

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Capsizing I think would be maybe a bit too extreme for beginners but other than that I do feel the seas are really too tame and empty.

 

Noobs don't have access to ships large enough to be problem for this feature. All it takes is a simple warning that you are risking your boat overturning by swimming into deep water.

 

Quote

We don't really have any waves in game, the water level stays the same no matter what. This might present some coding challenges in the long run since it would have need of collision detection (wave length, height, angle, speed, boat ql, navigation skill) which sadly....Wurm isn't great at. 

 

 

 

It's a pity because I was thinking of suggesting the tides as there are seasons and moons.

On the other hand, the wave is not a typical collision, but a wave that moves through several rows of tiles. In Wurm we have slopes that are too steep for the player and he has to use the climbing skill so if Devs would use the same mechanism for the water which is a wave is nothing else than a hill that moves slowly and any ship that enters the tile with a slope too steep for him ends badly.
The shallower the water level is, the smoother the slopes of the wave edge, and the deeper the water level and the stronger the wind, the larger the slopes can be generated.

Edit:
You can go further with this and if the sailing skill would be similar to climbing, that means if you run out of stamina while climbing you slide down, while sailing you fight the wave using stamina, if your speed is too low (for boats not designed to cross deep waters it would be common problem) the stamina will drop to zero before you cross the wave and the wave turns your ship sideways to the direction of movement and will sink it.
If the ship was sideways to the direction of the wave, then when the wave is high (slope is steep) the ship capsizes.

You could even add a surfboard that would be pushed by the wave slope (player would be falling from steep hill, but on water) and as long as the player has a stamina higher than zero he would stay on it being "pushed by the wave", because both player and the wave would be moving in same direction.

Edited by Darnok

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18 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Noobs don't have access to ships large enough to be problem for this feature. All it takes is a simple warning that you are risking your boat overturning by swimming into deep water.

 

 

It's a pity because I was thinking of suggesting the tides as there are seasons and moons.

On the other hand, the wave is not a typical collision, but a wave that moves through several rows of tiles. In Wurm we have slopes that are too steep for the player and he has to use the climbing skill so if Devs would use the same mechanism for the water which is a wave is nothing else than a hill that moves slowly and any ship that enters the tile with a slope too steep for him ends badly.
The shallower the water level is, the smoother the slopes of the wave edge, and the deeper the water level and the stronger the wind, the larger the slopes can be generated.

It's not an ocean. It's a water table. It never rises, it never falls. Water-level is absolute, whether you are on the edge of the map, near the shore, or in a mine in a mountain.

If waves were added, they would not stop at the shore. They would roll through the entire server, and try to drown people mining underground, smashing underground carts and buildings, damaging vehicles and buildings next to inland rice and reed fields.

Not to mention causing mass extinctions of non-swimming wildlife that tend to cluster on the shorelines. Some still manage to wander into the water and take drowning damage somehow.

Not to mention that swimming and boats only works relative to the z=0 plane, which just happens to have a water surface graphic.

I abandoned any aspirations to tides as soon as I fully understood how water works in Wurm.

It still pleases me to see that we don't still have trees and grass growing in the middle of the ocean anymore. ;)

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3 minutes ago, Drayka said:

Water-level is absolute, whether you are on the edge of the map, near the shore, or in a mine in a mountain.

 

 

The water tile slope may still be flat close to the shore.

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34 minutes ago, Darnok said:

It's a pity because I was thinking of suggesting the tides as there are seasons and moons.

impossible without calling it lol-mageddon... too much land (roads/deeds etc).. at water level.. messing with the water levels will trash a lot of deeds

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7 minutes ago, Darnok said:

The water tile slope may still be flat close to the shore.

 

What has that got to do with the price of cheese in the Pyrenees?

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It is just about possible that the height of the sea could be altered, globally, by a change in the code. But an increase of 3 dirt would be enough to cause an apocalypse the likes of which Wurm has never seen. And yes, I'm including the time PvP players came to raid Freedom isles

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On 7/13/2021 at 1:57 AM, Drayka said:

@Darnokwhy do you keep suggesting things that go above and beyond the call of balance between balance and imbalance, to kill newbies? All that would happen is that people would write a guide or do a video for new players stating "Never make this. If you see one lying around, don't pick it up, keep walking."

 

How is that a good use of the development team's time? Adding features that will be actively avoided?

 

Depends how map would look like, on map with many small islands many people would use it as early boat and storage at same time.

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20 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Depends how map would look like, on map with many small islands many people would use it as early boat and storage at same time.

You have nothing on which to base such an assertion other than your own magical thinking, and that is apart from positing a scenario that doesn't even exist in the game. 

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1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

You have nothing on which to base such an assertion other than your own magical thinking, and that is apart from positing a scenario that doesn't even exist in the game. 

 

And do you have anything but your own opinion on this?

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

And do you have anything but your own opinion on this?

I don't NEED anything, you are the one positing facts and effects, it is up to you to demonstrate some evidence for them.  The fact that there is no map in WO that matches the kind of map you posit for your suggestion to be useful is not opinion, though.  Have a look at the maps.  You are making a suggestion with literally no place in the game.

 

EDIT:  By the way, my newbie days were not very long ago and I can tell you unequivocally that I would have had no use for semi-portable storage unit weighing 25kg, that offered marginally faster than swimming water travel at the risk of drowning even when stationary, that I couldn't store anything in anyway because anyone could walk off with it.  That IS my opinion.

Edited by TheTrickster
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Maybe we're thinking about this the wrong way around @Sheffie

 

What was that lovely bit of advice? (Struggling to find the original - it drowned in the sea of other-topic comments)

 

On 7/10/2021 at 4:25 PM, Finnn said:

random events annoy people, random outcomes - normal or better are OK

 

What if we were to take as-read that the Wurm sea level can NEVER be higher than current global-z: 0, because that would be game-breaking for everything already built. Period.

 

But there was a time when there weren't caves at all, let alone cave systems that would support multi-storey house structures.

And there was a time before salty-water existed - and salty-water will still quench your thirst even now.

Adding salty-water was done in such a way that it didn't confer any nerf for drinking it.

And it's my understanding that getting struck by lighting in-game is not a 'bad thing' - or it wasn't 6 years ago.

 

Now liquids are ridiculously hard to code to look believable - it can take hours to render CGI water for a movie, even with blockbuster budgets.

 

But what if we were to entertain the mere idea of VERY VERY BASIC (1st-steps in the evolution towards) programming different zones in the water skin?

There's already fresh-water and salty-water. I'm not entirely certain under what circumstances it changes from one to the other, because the map I'm on doesn't really allow me to test that at this time. (Maybe someone else already knows and can explain?) P.S. Edit: nvmd, found a page in the wiki I've never seen before: Water - Wurmpedia. This has evolved a lot since I last played.

 

It would be nice to have buckets and fountains with a cosmetic water skin wouldn't it? But translucency is apparently a pig as anything but a shader over a solid, which is why we don't have glass.

 

I remember trying to sail, with a graphic bug affecting the sea. Not sure what they were trying to do at the time, but I remember the bug. Unfortunately I don't still have the screenshots from my old main, but the perspective was REALLY wonky. So let's not go thinking messing with this wouldn't cause bug backlash. Wurm ALWAYS has growing pains. It's ironically part of its charm for me.

 

So what if Wurm was to add - as a baby step - mineral water (cave tile water) - and drop the default z-height of cave tile water to say, z = -10 for testing, and instead of rendering the sea-level, the sea level stops on the other side of the cave-wall skin, and there is shader on the cave walls and floors that darkens the surfaces, making it clear that you are moving into a potential flood zone - not from intention, from bugs. In fact, let's say that if you cannot build it underwater, you cannot build it on a cave tile at -z depth, just to be safe. Worst case intended scenario, a few canal tunnels go dry and need to be relevelled and the entrances reworked.

 

But what about cave entrances?? All cave entrances with tile borders lower than z=0 (meaning all boat mines and working canals) would now have a disparity between outside water level, and inside water level. Now maybe boats could be dragged up and down this 'weir tile' with its white-water sloped-graphic and hissing-noise, and maybe they couldn't. Maybe it's as impossible to swim up a weir tile as it is to walk up a steep slope without climbing on. And maybe we'd finally have some use for a skill called swimming, that would allow you to try to.

 

But let's assume we're planning on more extreme slopes than a 10-dirt difference, being available in the future. After all, we want windmills and watermills right? And constantly running machines like that are brilliant IRL at pumping water up slopes, or using water falling down slopes.

 

What we're going to need now, if we plan on allowing large ships into canal tunnels, is canal locks. Structures that can only be planned on, and extending from, a cave entrance tile, that can accommodate the footprint of the largest ship. Now that would be something, wouldn't it? Canal locks in Wurm, which have gates that can only be opened when the water levels on both sides of the gate match. Could still have hidden boatmines, if you put the first water-gate at the back of the cave entrance tile. No current ship is wider than 2 tiles, so each gate could be reversible single-leaf. And of course you could have water-fences of various types, that divide water levels and eliminate white-water weir-tiles, by default with an iron-ladder built in.

 

If cave-water levels can be coded to be independently stabilised, regardless of what the default-water level is doing, then there is a CHANCE of extending that system very gradually to accommodate above-ground changes in water levels - real lakes and rivers, that can be tamed into shipping canals open to the ocean.

 

An ocean that could conceivable have a future tidal zone with z-0 as the highest possible water level, even accounting for far-future 'rogue waves' which even IRL systems cannot predict accurately, but Wurm law would say cannot happen except on certain days of the Wurm year "when the moons are thus". A more predictable shipping hazard in deep-water, than sea-serpents are now, but which bring some boon to the seas that will have everyone interested in such things flocking to deep waters the very next day, to look for event spawns.

Edited by Drayka

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Seasonal islands

Har, Mel and Cad are the central islands.
There are 3 seasonal islands (A, B, C) around them, each player can go there at any time with any ship, except for rowing boat.

 

The seasons of the 3 new islands and the central islands are synchronized so that when it is spring on the central islands:

A - summer

B - autumn

C - winter

 

When on "central islands" is summer:

A - autumn

B - winter

C - spring

etc

 

Each season on these islands offers different level of challenge:

- spring is quite pleasant, everyone can hunt then freely, gather resources and build deeds and buildings like on PvE servers.

- summer it's a bit different than summer on Har, Mel and Cad, monsters have +25% higher damage and are tougher, but the player gets +50% more skill gain for both fighting and crafting.

- autumn climate deteriorates a bit more, for fans of 100% security, mobs have +50% higher dmg and 80+ FS bandits are spawning now too, they drop copper coins and can attack player made structures when owner is online. +100% more skill gain for players.

- winter on new islands is only for the strongest, normal monsters have +100% damage and are even more durable, except hell mobs they have dmg bonus + 200%, bandits now have +100% damage and drop more copper coins, skill gain for player is + 200%.
 

Season of dragon slayers

As in my suggestion "Dragons & crystals" winter should be season for dragon hunters, because during winter dragons become aggressive.

 

But the dragon hunting season should be synchronized with Har, Mel and Cad seasons, meaning that dragons on seasonal islands become aggressive when it's winter in center.

This means that it will be easiest to track them on Har, Mel and Cad, while on other islands it will be a much more difficult task and depending on season on that island, dragons have bonus damage like other mobs.

 

Additionally, dragons on islands after killing leave their skeleton, which no one can move, destroy, or place a deed on it.

During next winter on that seasonal island dragon is brought back to life in the form of a skeleton dragon, that cannot fly or breathe fire, but each time player hits it, a hell mob spawns next to it (+200% dmg during winter :-)).

Skeleton dragon keeps moving in some random direction during the fight and have +100% more melee dmg and attack speed than normal dragons.

 

After killing skeleton dragon, player who dealt last blow receives strange bone and...

 

Merge PvE and PvP

He has to choose whether the next Wurm year on this island will be PvE or PvP year.

If player chooses PvP then starting from spring, sky is turning reddish, server becomes a full loot PvP server for the whole Wurm year.

 

On PvP server, mobs damage is restored to normal values throughout all seasons, but still in fall and winter bandits dropping coins spawn and skill gain is +200% for entire Wurm year.

 

First Wurm year on all 3 new islands would be PvE.

During single Wurm year maximum two of seasonal islands can be converted into PvP servers, one must always remain PvE.

 

Next Wurm year also gets the name from player's nickname, so everyone who enters /time command will see who last year killed skeleton dragon on this island.

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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More terrible suggestions from Darnok that don't fit Wurm in the slightest!

 

Go make your own game if it's so easy and your ideas are so great 🙂

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Darnok, I do not know you personally, so you could be a really great person who's feelings I would never want to hurt. But your ideas are NOT Wurm. They are a completely different game. You have a very clear vision of the game you'd like.. go team up with some coders and make it happen... for you. When you get it made, I'll be in Wurm, stop in and say hi.

 

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7 hours ago, Jore said:

More terrible suggestions from Darnok that don't fit Wurm in the slightest!

 

Go make your own game if it's so easy and your ideas are so great 🙂

 

7 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

Darnok, I do not know you personally, so you could be a really great person who's feelings I would never want to hurt. But your ideas are NOT Wurm. They are a completely different game. You have a very clear vision of the game you'd like.. go team up with some coders and make it happen... for you. When you get it made, I'll be in Wurm, stop in and say hi.

 

You could also be a complete fool who I would have no problem with the idea of hurting your feelings. If so.. go away.

 

My favourite is name dropping "bandits" as spawns 3 times despite nothing about what bandits are and how they work being here

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This could all work very well on Wurm Unlimited I feel.  Wurm online version is the super slow paced game.  On wurm unlimited you can increase the skill gain a ###### load without upsetting the player base that is already based there who are used to it being a certain way.  Cause the players know what they are getting themselves into.  More so if you create a forum topic in wurm unlimited saying what your server is all about.

I bet there are people out there who will love the challenge and thrill of your ideas here.  Same for the extra skill gain and tougher monsters. Same for the dragons and bone dragons.  These are all great add ons to the base wurm game that again would be great to try out on wurm unlimited 😀👍   So again, your ideas are "Wurm" but just not "Onlines" wurm. 

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See the idea of divergent seasons is great. 

 

What I don't get is the extra complications. 

 

Keep it simple, don't try to balance things

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PvP on PvE servers ... hehe...hehehe....

20 hours ago, Darnok said:

After killing skeleton dragon, player who dealt last blow receives strange bone and...

 

 

20 hours ago, Darnok said:

He has to choose whether the next Wurm year on this island will be PvE or PvP year.

 

 

MUHAHAHAH!!!!! MUHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!! * Laughs in high lockpicking skill * MUHAHAHHA!

 

* I'll see myself out * 

 

In all seriousness, ages ago Rolf made the mistake of allowing PvP on non pvp servers and it was a mess. People rallied and demanded PvE remain PvE untouched by the madness of war. So it was written. So it was done. 

 

I can imagine beautiful deliverance suddenly being swarmed by chaos dudes bashing down all deeds and stealing everything in sight. Poor Velvetsun's beautiful deed...

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If it was added that a PvE server could become PvP by vote, I would quit the game immediately. I would destroy everything I owned and leave.

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Rolf made the mistake of allowing PvP on non pvp servers and it was a mess.

That was a very dark day indeed on JK Home...... If you allowed pve servers to switch to pvp I think the majority of wurmians would quit. A lot of people play wurm for just the pve lifestyle, I myself am one of them. May I ask why you think that pve should be switched to pvp? Does this have to do with your views on people hoarding resources and cattle? Currently right now wurm gives the playerbase the option for choosing either pvp or pve. Currently on SFI you can go back and forth between Chaos and any of the pve servers, and on NFI you can go back and forth between Defiance and any of the pve servers. That or you could go to Epic and play full pvp. This gives the players the option to choose what they want to play. The suggestion you are making takes that choice away.

 

I will say that the idea for more in-depth seasons would be something quite interesting to see in wurm. Though the winter season is the only one I would have some suggestions for. It does not make sense for hell mobs to do more damage in the winter. With the cold weather plus the snow you would expect the mobs that are on fire to do even less damage, that's to say that you would even find them. Maybe during winter they would go back under to wait for the warmer weather. So these mobs would only be found in caves during that season. I would say the same could be extended to lava spiders since they are also on fire. With that in mind I would say in summer they would do boosted damage. Since it is the hottest time of the year. It would also be cool to see some Bandits as well as other npc's to both help and hinder players.

 

The last thing I have to say is a big no to the boosted skill gain by season. That just doesn't make any sense at least in my eyes. Is there a reason why you suggested more skill during different seasons? I can say that it would make sense that a boosted mob would give more skill. Seeing as how you are raising it's CR. It also would make sense that a mob who is weaker would give less skill gain.

Edited by brattygirl

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On 8/31/2021 at 6:13 PM, Darnok said:

If player chooses PvP then starting from spring, sky is turning reddish, server becomes a full loot PvP server for the whole Wurm year.

 

It always bugs me that everyone thinks PvP in WO is like this hardcore-sky-turning-red-brutal-loose-everything thing. My experience on an Epic home island (most of my time) was pretty much doing the same things as on Freedom, except finding a horse stolen now and then or fixing something at the canal gatehouse or keeping in mind to make things difficult to navigate for raiders and stuff. It's more RvR and it's the best RvR I ever saw in my life. And I wonder why it is never shown like this. I literally saw no RvR mentioned anywhere about Epic. We even have player made kingdoms, player kings and offices. How is Wurm PvP and WoW RvR? I'm gonna rant on a separate thread about this.

 

But activating PvP on Freedom would be a huge turn-off for a lot of people. And giving the choice to some random player to turn it on or off :)

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