christopher

rift close

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11 minutes ago, zethreal said:

My last rift was shortly after they changed to 4 waves ( maybe a month after the change? )

While the 4 waves have been much criticized, it is generally glossed over the fact that the old 3 waves were not considerably shorter. The old wave 1 usually took as long as waves 1 and 2 together now, wave 2 very similar to wave 3 now in type of attackers, wave 4 only harder in the sense that the warmaster got tougher. Also there was no or much less scaling with participant numbers.

 

Also, a lot of nuisances have been removed. Traps are completely gone, the rift mobs do not attack other creatures anymore (meaning that mounts and hitches off pens are safe). Even the "feature" that champion beasts agroed horses with their AoE has obviously been removed. And, to my experience, even players finding themselves inside the new wave spawn are not pursued by all, but only a limited number (5-8 afaik) of mobs.

 

Also the automatic giveaway of mats on rift close has been improved and seems to comprise of more and more diverse mats, at least two of the three types.

 

I am not happy about all changes. The old style ogre mages were more interesting, dangerous with their harsh internal wounds, but also ways more vulnerable (could hurt, even damage with a sickle) and with less hp. Some of the mechanics like teleporting of casters and summoners seem to have been nerfed though I found them ok (they also frustrated the so violently hated "taggers", after all).

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Removed comment lol read his statement wrong I think.  I need to not read the forums late at night, because it gets me into trouble hehehehe

Edited by ShenjiWurm

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In fact anyone able to cause AoE effects (and that means priests in Wurm) will get more points as any target hit (be it mobs with damage, or players with healing) counts towards participation. The reward in rift points is not proportional to the participation points visible in /rifts chat command. And ShenjiWurm is right, priests are very useful at rifts, and much welcome. 

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23 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Even the "feature" that champion beasts agroed horses with their AoE has obviously been removed.

It hasn't. Last 10 rifts I did, champ creatures killed horses or aggroed them. Even the last 3 rifts I did on Epic they aggroed my horse. 

 

Also other nuissances have been added. Rift bests counstatly taunting, teleporting summoners & casters which is annoying as heck, Warmaster gives 1 lousy point on death despite being super buffed now, spawning adds and healing turrets, etc. 

 

 

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Sorry to hear that the horse agroing is still in place. But I did not lose a single horse to, ever. I just saw that my horse was trampling, and immediately turned away to renew the attack later (if the champ was still alive). Only once in the beginning I had a seriously wounded horse.

 

As to the other "annoyances", I like most of them. The beasts encircling you and taunting in turns are extremely dangerous, often I have to flee and renew the attack later (It is what I expect from combat, those who can't stand it should go slaying foals and sheep *) ). Teleporting of summoners and casters is not that bad either, they do it once to my experience. The adds of the WM give points, so do the turrets, but yes, I would like a special reward (ought not be something extreme) for taking down the WM.

 

*) Sorry for the polemics, please don't take it personal, but couldn't resist.

Edited by Ekcin

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If anything, I think it's waves 1-3 that shouldn't be ended too soon. That's the point where players might want to burn off some healing resistance, rest in the enchanted grass, or butcher and bury corpses (for some players, I think, frame rate is a real problem).

 

By the time we get to wave four? I think most people just want it to be over.

Edited by Sheffie

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a rift lasts for 2 plus hrs deal with it, so why are you there  ? to wreck it for the ones who are there by complaining and finishing it early,

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Nobody's complaining, there's option to end it once rift master spawns.. and people make use of it because the event is boring and annoying and there's no reason to fight a symbolic boss that gives nothing besides the turrets.

"Deal with it" - if there was option to end the 4th wave from it's start and not be prevented until the 'boss' spawns.. we'd all jump in on that boat and sink it hard - because the event is boring and we've done it enough times to be sick of it as it is. Fourth wave is only wasting people's time for a few more points.. points that we have no purpose for, rift loot is dated and useless, and the only ones monetizing rifts well are Fo priests.

 

Simple facts..

 

If you want better event.. suggest some improvement to the loot and reason to not skip the boss, currently there is no reason for that and the smart decision is to not waste your time with whole 4th wave and the boss fight.

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As much as it Pains me to Admit Finnn has it on this one.  The event is old and tired and the mats are meh and boring overall.  Even at 90 FS 90 Staff and 78 Aggressive and a very nice staff killing Rift mobs is slow and tedious

 

I would suggest they spawn more often as smaller fights with I don't know alien armor or tech I mean they are aliens.

 

Get enough Stuff keys etc you can go to an altar and spawn in a boss for you and your friends that drops silver and nice loot

 

Have it so you can summon a rift and people go OVER THERE instead of them coming over here and do stuffs.

 

 

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This constant whining how bad rifts are is even more boring, together with the constant disinfo about "tagging". Same goes for the "mats are meh". Then leave them to those who haven't yet. I nowadays take some ten of any sort if at all, but do not see that much is left.

 

As to closing rifts I most times see consent when the fighting group is to small to bring the WM down in reasonable time. Short discussion in local then mostly it is done. Forcing closure onto others is rude, and obviously in contradiction to alleged "mats are meh". If that were true for the closers they could just start their way home, especially when on the same server, and lose nothing than the mats.

 

Rifts since the 4 rounds are in no way considerably longer than the old style ones. A rift is usually done in 1.5 to 2 hours unless there are very few participants. In that case it has always taken its time. 

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31 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

This constant whining how bad rifts are is even more boring, together with the constant disinfo about "tagging". Same goes for the "mats are meh". Then leave them to those who haven't yet. I nowadays take some ten of any sort if at all, but do not see that much is left.

 

As to closing rifts I most times see consent when the fighting group is to small to bring the WM down in reasonable time. Short discussion in local then mostly it is done. Forcing closure onto others is rude, and obviously in contradiction to alleged "mats are meh". If that were true for the closers they could just start their way home, especially when on the same server, and lose nothing than the mats.

 

Rifts since the 4 rounds are in no way considerably longer than the old style ones. A rift is usually done in 1.5 to 2 hours unless there are very few participants. In that case it has always taken its time. 

hoarding is 1 big part of the game.. 

 

disinfo? tagging is a thing.. it's optimal thing you can do at the rift for points as non-priest(only way to get better ql mm lump and make it weight more(before somebody gets ideas.. you need pretty insane amount of points to get near 0.4kg)), by far not at all as effective as fo heals to 'tag' and scrape rift point ceiling constantly with ease.

 

And the best part you skip talking about it how useless the loot and points are .. or what you'd do with the materials, other than hoarding and selling bulk eventually.. So where did other 'lie' about it all being boring and necessary to keep the option to skip the "boss" which currently gives no good reason to bother with.

 

 

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Do you ever think before knee jerk posts? Either "hoarding is fun", then hoarding rift mats is ok no matter how useful or useless. Or "rift mats are meh", then why caring about, or even mentioning?

 

As to rift points: metallic liquid requires 1200, and I usually get 220-260 points per rift, so >5 rifts needed for one. If for nothing else one can sell them for around 4-5s if I recall correctly. Useless?

 

Finally tagging, gimme a break. If it were so optimal, why do I get fairly good scores (always among the top melee fighters) without? We had this discussion which boiled down to "but on NFI .." (where also informed rift participants contradicted the tagging fairy tales).

Edited by Ekcin

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You first mentioned the rift materials.. why do you ask me..

 

Again from the written it seems like you have a Fo priest and farm point for silver, it's the one thing you evade.

 

Tagging is a thing.. you're not supposed to be in the top if there are healers or aoe casters around as such tag easy point source, no idea where you get your information.. tagging is a thing, and it works from the time rifts were first introduced.

There's some odd denial going on here. Cotton healing.. idk how effective it is.. but it's new feature that might be viable to farm points.. IDK, I only go to rifts to slowly clean the insane journal goal, rarely leave the server for the event.

 

For me it only slowly clears 1 number off the journal achievement, I get no other benefit, nothing in the rift shop interests me;

* spare rift materials let me rune dumb random stuff or rune friend's stuff here and there - useless to me.. but for these lacking skill or mats it's huge QoL with gather runes or -10% damage on weapon, etc.. I have the skill; I have the resource - if I want to rune somebody's stuff for free it's up to me.

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You are obviously decency wise challenged, and want to smear personally. And no, I do not sell metallic liquids. I mentioned that one may do so, so your rant about useless rift points is void. Instead you come with personal smear.

 

How I am playing is my thing, as it is everybody else's. And has nothing to do with discussions about rifts. I only recently started to play around bit more with priests, and it can be fun, and the results are interesting. Btw. steering two characters in a combat environment is not trivial, and challenging sometimes. It demonstrates the diversity of the game, and the allegedly so boring and obsolete rifts. My main purpose remains keeping the fighting team stable and reach a successful and satisfying closure, not "farming" (if someone chooses so, fine with me). Again and again, I tried "tagging", and efficiency, if any, is low, and widely neglectible.

 

People who participate frequently may amass materials, and participation points. People who mine a lot have many metals and minerals. Whether to "monetize" in silver, or share with friends is matter of playstyle, and not your business. Obviously the stuff is useful as you yourself admit. After debunking your own rant you try to evade to personal attack.

 

That rift rewards are not relevant for you may be the case, and is not my business. I frequently clear out low and medium veins though I certainly do not need them, just for the goal to free my canals, or those in projects I am working on. I am not pestering the community with whining about, and of course give away such stuff to players who need them. No reason to brag.

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The arguments about tagging seem to boil down to:

  1. It's annoying and people do it all the time
  2. People who don't tag still get lots of points
  3. Tagging doesn't work for technical reasons X,Y,Z.

You know, there's really no reason why all these points of view can't be correct.

People just have to believe tagging works, and (be greedy / ambitious / selfish / motivated / whatever) enough to do it. That can be annoying and disruptive whether or not it gets the user extra points.

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Question, Sheffie: How do you see that somebody is tagging?

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Regarding the suggestion, a simple implementation could be: every time the warmaster takes damage, heart sacrifices at the mound are disabled for the next 20-30 seconds. This will require more coordination among participants to close the event, for example your group can still decide to skip the warmaster, in that case it suffices to have a tank poking him with a weak weapon since most of time the attacks just glance off his armour.

 

About the off-topic discussion, a Rifts event nowadays lasts for around 2 hours which mainly consists of waves 3 and 4, I think this is a fair amount of time to spend. Many players are still enjoying the event, and many new players are experiencing it for the first time. The problem is with people who only want the moon metal reward, so as soon as they get enough assist points for a descent metal quality they will just sacrifice hearts at light speed. This can be annoying in some situations, for example when a new player needs to recover his/her corpse, or when someone arrived late and need few more assists for their journal record, or when the group is nearly finishing the warmaster...

Edited by Kyu

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12 minutes ago, Kyu said:

Regarding the suggestion, a simple implementation could be: every time the warmaster takes damage, heart sacrifices at the mound are disabled for the next 20-30 seconds. This will require more coordination among participants to close the event, for example your group can still decide to skip the warmaster, in that case it suffices to have a tank poking him with a weak weapon since most of time the attacks just glance off his armour.

 

Someone disagrees with ending it early and starts to fight it. What now? We'd just be flipping the issue the other way around

 

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8 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Question, Sheffie: How do you see that somebody is tagging?

 

Don't ask me. I am not claiming to be a source of data about rift tagging.

 

ETA

I also don't like Kyu's suggestion. Adding an arbitrary rule preventing the rift being closed, for reasons that are not evident to any player without a stopwatch and a combat log scanner... is likely to add frustration and confusion to say the least. And as Madnath says, it just reverses the current problem: every player except one can want to close the rift, and this mechanism gives that player a veto.

 

Suggestion

To prevent rifts being closed before a sufficient number of players are ready, limit the number of hearts each player can burn.

Edited by Sheffie

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1 hour ago, Sheffie said:

 

Don't ask me. I am not claiming to be a source of data about rift tagging.

 

ETA

I also don't like Kyu's suggestion. Adding an arbitrary rule preventing the rift being closed, for reasons that are not evident to any player without a stopwatch and a combat log scanner... is likely to add frustration and confusion to say the least. And as Madnath says, it just reverses the current problem: every player except one can want to close the rift, and this mechanism gives that player a veto.

 

Suggestion

To prevent rifts being closed before a sufficient number of players are ready, limit the number of hearts each player can burn.

That does nothing as long you get 2-3 people agreeing to close it early, limiting it further will end up handing noobs hearts because they fail to butcher a heart from a creature or need more time to butcher ONE heart compared to other butchering 5-10, this just slows the event unnecessarily.

What's the fuzz about.. fighting a boss that gives no loot and melts your hp and gear with often spawned ice and lava - <CAPS>for no loot at all</CAPS>, and people complain why some want to skip it?

 

--edit

22 hours ago, Ekcin said:

You are obviously decency wise challenged, and want to smear personally. And no, I do not sell metallic liquids. I mentioned that one may do so, so your rant about useless rift points is void. Instead you come with personal smear.

 

How I am playing is my thing, as it is everybody else's. And has nothing to do with discussions about rifts. I only recently started to play around bit more with priests, and it can be fun, and the results are interesting. Btw. steering two characters in a combat environment is not trivial, and challenging sometimes. It demonstrates the diversity of the game, and the allegedly so boring and obsolete rifts. My main purpose remains keeping the fighting team stable and reach a successful and satisfying closure, not "farming" (if someone chooses so, fine with me). Again and again, I tried "tagging", and efficiency, if any, is low, and widely neglectible.

 

People who participate frequently may amass materials, and participation points. People who mine a lot have many metals and minerals. Whether to "monetize" in silver, or share with friends is matter of playstyle, and not your business. Obviously the stuff is useful as you yourself admit. After debunking your own rant you try to evade to personal attack.

 

That rift rewards are not relevant for you may be the case, and is not my business. I frequently clear out low and medium veins though I certainly do not need them, just for the goal to free my canals, or those in projects I am working on. I am not pestering the community with whining about, and of course give away such stuff to players who need them. No reason to brag.

You're the one calling somebody "decency wise challenged" but claim that somebody is after you personally, and you use personal attacks with words like that? "Trustworthy" mhm.

You change your mind and standing on who, when, how and why can and should gather or hoard resources, read your posts again - your standing changes.

Then you derail with w/e random terraforming you enjoy.

Edited by Finnn

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1 hour ago, Madnath said:

 

Someone disagrees with ending it early and starts to fight it. What now? We'd just be flipping the issue the other way around

 

 

I think that is the correct way. You are supposed to fight or at least try to. You are not supposed to end a Server event early unless 100% consensus of the participants!

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30 minutes ago, Kyu said:

I think that is the correct way. You are supposed to fight or at least try to. You are not supposed to end a Server event early unless 100% consensus of the participants!

Madnath' comment is warranted though. I can assure you that I at one time (there was no dissent about, btw.) fought the WM either alone or with one other for over 15 minutes, doing damage most time (elemental immunity prevents AoE damage, and the blows of the WM are widely or entirely balanced by LT). 

 

There is no other way than maintain communication in local, and when somebody decides to disrupt against the will of most other participants, it is certainly unpleaant, but similar to the noob cutting a tree or digging a hole in your perimeter, or forum participants derailing discussions by turning personal and distorting arguments in discussions (in the way "ah you are farming silver .."). One must live with ignorants and poorly behaving people.

Edited by Ekcin

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2 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Madnath' comment is warranted though. I can assure you that I at one time (there was no dissent about, btw.) fought the WM either alone or with one other for over 15 minutes, doing damage most time (elemental immunity prevents AoE damage, and the blows of the WM are widely or entirely balanced by LT).

 

That's fine, if you are unable to convince the group (or some parts of them) to fight, then they will just watch your stalemate with the beast, or your death, or until you change your mind 😀

 

2 hours ago, Ekcin said:

There is no other way than maintain communication in local, and when somebody decides to disrupt against the will of most other participants, it is certainly unpleaant, but similar to the noob cutting a tree or digging a hole in your perimeter, or forum participants derailing discussions by turning personal and distorting arguments in discussions (in the way "ah you are farming silver .."). One must live with ignorants and poorly behaving people.

 

That was the whole point of the suggested changes: the current system is flaw in the sense that it is too easy to close the waves, and there is no incentive to listen to other players.

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1 hour ago, Kyu said:

[soloing WM]

That's fine, if you are unable to convince the group (or some parts of them) to fight, then they will just watch your stalemate with the beast, or your death, or until you change your mind 😀

You underestimate the problem. Elemental immunity lasts 30 minutes. It will be a nuisance for those wanting for an end.

 

Quote

[communication in local]

That was the whole point of the suggested changes: the current system is flaw in the sense that it is too easy to close the waves, and there is no incentive to listen to other players.

At the rifts I participate in, such communication takes place most times, and voices are respected. Last rift, with 8 participants only (6 in fact, as one Lib priest and player were main and alt, same with my Fo priestess), one player asked to try bit longer on WM, and so we did for 5 minutes circa. When it was obvious that the WM was losing health very slowly (most running to avoid AoE repeatedly) there was consensus to make an end. Was 2:46 minutes in total due to the small party, all were tired, but showed mutual patience and tolerance.

 

This was my experience in most rifts. Sometimes closing felt premature happens, but I do not see that it warrants a change adding complexity while not preventing abuse.

 

Edit: One other thing: I do not want to quarrel with anybody, yet playstyles, with or without alts, are off topic here, so is blaming players for. Where btw. Finn was right, is that the choices of sensible stuff in the "rift point shop" are narrow. Metallic liquid is the only undisputedly valuable and useful one, the artisan rings are too to some extent, and maybe the socketed rings. Among the shoulder pads, the  the dragon shoulder pads were popular once as random drops. But now, since not being steel, but randomly tin, lead, copper, whatever, it is vain to try such lottery. A mopup and overhaul of the rift rewards would indeed be a thing.  But that should go into a different suggestion.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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