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31 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

 

ok-and-ok.gif

 

And average players don't care about your high level problems 🙂

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Ok so basically screw the entire loyal playerbase because noobs don't see a difference. Cool

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55 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

You mean players who have AH at a level where the current system is problematic, the average player with 20-30 AH skill level won't even notice the problem about which you are writing.

do you really think the average player has 20-30 ah and rides around on 1 speed animals because it's straight up not possible for them to breed 2 traits that work together? that seems really out of touch, even by your standards

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52 minutes ago, elentari said:

Here's the funny bit about players who have high AH  : The old system actually punished players who had high AH since say if you had 90 ah pre-may patch, you'd get horses with a ton of negative traits or useless traits. The sweet spot in the old system was having 50-60 AH max so you could get 5 speeders reliably. Source : ask any breeder. 

 

This new system also punished high AH players when it launched since now again you can get irrelevant traits that have to fill the trait slots based on your AH (aka 90 AH = 90 trait points or 80-85).  Granted it was slightly updated so the chance to get negative traits was lowered, but it doesn't change the fact that if you browse through the horse thread feedback posts, you can see people breeding  3 Draft horse + 3 Draft horse = 4 Misc traited foal. 

 

Old system was idiosyncratic since you were punished for having a high skill by throwing RNG in your face....

New system still throws RNG in your face, now you just can't bypass it. 

 

 

What did you expect from the random system?

After all, the whole Wurm looks like this, only in other areas the progress bar is several seconds long while in AH progress bar lasts several days.

At level 10 of any skill, no matter if you create pottery item, armor, weapons, tools on level 10 you will encounter fewer failures when improving an item to 10ql, than if you were at skill level 100 and wanted to upgrade an item to 100ql.

And no one is complaining about it, why?

 

If the upgrading of other items would work same as what breeders-players want, then after making one weapon 100ql weaponsmith should be able to copy this weapon any number of times and player shouldn't even need more metal for copy, because grass for animals grows by itself and you do not need to feed animals and 2x1 tiles are enough for animal to survive entire Wurm year without any player intervention.

Imagine if the rest of crafting disciplines in Wurm work the same as AH, would such a game make sense?

 

I understand that there are players who want to play as breeders, but I think your expectations are a bit too high compared to the rest of professions.
Achieving late game level for breed animals is always to be possible, for any breeder, once you reach late game level you can copy your animal x100 times and each copy must be perfect, animals cannot require any interaction from you most of the time.

So why does every other crafter have to start with an item with low ql? I know that would not be realistic from a genetics point of view, but I wonder how such a system would work to prevent players from reaching late game levels too quickly and be interesting at same time.
I made a suggestion on animal training in a suggestions, but it turned out to be a bad idea as it would require too much interactions from a players who are not interested in it, as breeder expects to get 100ql item in 30 seconds (this is how long it takes to breed animals, right?).

 

16 minutes ago, Blackbeard said:

Ok so basically screw the entire loyal playerbase because noobs don't see a difference. Cool

 

It would be good for every group of players to be satisfied, question is, what will please high level AH players?
I didn't see anything on the forum except complaints, apart from my idea there was no other idea what an interesting high level speed/draft animal breeding should look like.

 

4 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

do you really think the average player has 20-30 ah and rides around on 1 speed animals because it's straight up not possible for them to breed 2 traits that work together? that seems really out of touch, even by your standards

 

I play on a PvE server and try to avoid other players. From what I remember, you wrote that you do not play on NFI, so it probably is different there.

Edited by Darnok

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39 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I play on a PvE server and try to avoid other players. From what I remember, you wrote that you do not play on NFI, so it probably is different there.

If you play an MMO, yet avoid other players, why do you feel you deserve to speak for other players? 

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

Here's the funny bit about players who have high AH  : The old system actually punished players who had high AH since say if you had 90 ah pre-may patch, you'd get horses with a ton of negative traits or useless traits. The sweet spot in the old system was having 50-60 AH max so you could get 5 speeders reliably. Source : ask any breeder. 

 

That's what many players said, but it was never correct. We had 8 good traits in the old system:

 

- the old 5 speed traits

- spark in eyes (longer life)

- tough bugger (more hitpoints)

- strong and healthy (more resistance to disease).

 

These 8-traiters would be the perfect horse in the old system, needs AH skill 80+ and it was totally possible to breed them that way. Source: Me. :) All my pre-patches horses have these 8 traits. It's the new system that punishes players with high skill while the old one never did.

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VR? Please, no.

 

Fix the Zoolander Problem first. I want to be able to turn without falling out of my boat.

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Please forgive this question, but I am old. 

 

Will this VR thing be an option or become mandatory to play this game?

 

Thank you

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13 hours ago, Cipacadrinho said:

 

Getting top of the line mounts (5 speeds) was too easy in comparison to getting most of everything else at top quality.

 

A maxed out horse should be just as rare and/or hard to make as a rare 90ql weapon since mobility is just as important as one or probably the most important thing in combat.

 

 

 

 

sorry to break it to you but 90ql tools and weapons are not rare.

 

if I have to keep this stupid casino ######. then your tools are no longer repairable. randomly break completely not related to damage. can randomly be weaker and you need to spend a lump to feed it to get its strength back to what it was. If it's flawed when you make it you should need a priest to uncurse it. ( remove negative traits) you no longer can improve any tool. the ql the tool you create is its permanent ql. you will be required 20 RL days to use that tool to only maybe , hopefully , make another tool of the same ql or better. But it has a very nigh chance to be a much worse tool. No matter what you cant use any newly made tool for 13 RL days while it cures ( bison are an exception so lets say wood tools are exempt from the foal stage of tools. so its going to be the 3-12 days of pregnancy wait) Tools decay in your inventory because decay is time based only. you can protect 1-9 ( depending on our skill) from decay but only if you care for them. enchants can stay thats no dif then horseshoes and their damage mechanic.

 

your comparison is a joke.

 

---

lets take talk AH vs 90 skilled crafter. crafters can imp breeders can not. crafted tools do not decay out of inventory or magic chest. this is a grey area you can make an alt armer to carefor horses. except thats bugged since the recent patch. crafters have no cooldown and are only limited by their supplies which are immediately renewable if they go get it themselves or buy it. soon as they have the materials they can make the 90ql things same day. or several of them from the same set of supplies until they run out. Horse breeders have a huge delay where the animals are not usable and getting a wild horse adds months or if you are unlucky nothing. you can buy a horse from another breeder but then you have inbreeding issues if they are all using the same stud.  crafters dont have an inbreeding mechanic. if you have storage you can store it there is no penalty for having to many. breeders have animals die constantly from disease and miscarriage if they have to many on the deed. crafters can make their tools off deed without randomly have the tool and the tool used to make it break beyond repairing. pregnant female animals almost always miscarry off deed.

 

going from scratch to consistent 5 speeds took months this is not inconsistent with crafters. This is a challenge and of you wanted a specific color its not about going and getting a specific log or lump. Crafters control what the wood  or metal type is. AH the last thing you do, does not guarantee color or lately traits. Now with the new speed/draft type even if the whole thing is made with 1 type you have a small chance of it coming out a completely unrelated to what the parents were. This is not cosmetic this includes things like ebony as a color has a speed boost breeding 2 ebony does not always give ebony. 90 crafters get to get to choose what metal/wood type is consistently on demand if they have a shop in same day. Breeders have to already have them available and again deed size and space are a factor.  Under the old AH system you needed to stop skilling AH at 50-60 for the equiv of 70 ql tools and weapons unless you really want to chase the best misc traits as well. ( this was working as intended honestly) if you wanted to sell just 5 speeds or 5 speed+ spark. you can make the effort to get to 50-60 and stop there if you that is all you wanted just like any other crafting skill if you are not interested in chasing 90 because you dont like [insert skill here]. Now however there are those that do get to 90+ AH and get 8 trait perfect horses if you chose but that was a hella grind and work. These are the 90+ skill people chasing perfection, Hats off to them its a lot of work for crafters and breeders alike! The average breeder tho is aiming for usable working speed/draft not perfection often because they dont want to buy the animals and are just getting to 5sp breeding to use. same as the average crafter trying to make their own stuff without having to resort to buying it with silver or for the satisfaction of having reach that level themselves. Crafters are rewarded with higher skill with the ability to make higher ql items consistently. Breeders now have the the exact opposite of that. Since the patch the higher your skill the worse the animals tend to come out. horses without traits are slow enough hitched you will die to a troll if you do not have the FS to kill it. you will not out run it on a vehicle. and well everyone's speed got nerfed with the vehicle speed nerf.

 

-edit: ALSO if you loose everything you can go get the raw materials and MAKE a 90QL tool from scratch in 1 day if you are motivated. I breed 2 wild horses together I get maybe 1-2 completely random traits- a good chance of no traits completely and if I am no longer in a village I high chance of the mother dieing instead of giving me another horse.

 

also as soon as you can make 90Ql tools you are always capable of making 90ql tool as long as you got at least 1-2 imping log/lump. You do not need a stable of like 10-20 pairs to start brute forcing numbers for higher ql horses. If you sold in trade then you compete with other sellers this is not unique to AH and the drastic price of 90ql reduction since NFI launched is proof of that. There were a lot of casual breeders in the game we just had a few commercial ones. My alliance alone has 4 diff breeders this includes those like me that went for black sheep and deer along with my horses. we had someone breeding speed bulls for carts and lore. We had a champion animal breeder there are many of us just enjoy the process and skill itself rather then aiming for a profit. You seem to hate the people who want to make a profit from their work. Some breeders wanted silver which is no different from the tool market . Even in the old AH system you got horses that occasionally did not have 5 speed traits or even rolled something silly onto the animal. I bred animals for me and the village and this was common. you want to wreck the skill for people that dont have the room to mass brute force numbers the way commercial breeders do.

 

this is like the worst example you could have made lmao. 90ql tools are not hard you can make them in a single sitting in one RL day once you get the skill for it.

. I was making 90ql carpentry items consistently Months  before I could get a 5sp born consistently and that was after buying some 3-4 trait breeding stock to help the process along ( thanks Cista <3). since NFI went live I was only getting 5 speed consistently two months before the most recent AH patch I had like 10 pairs and only 3 were 5 speeds and only 1 of those pairs were the color I was breeding for because getting appaloosa's is apparently the equiv of finding seryl in a meteor. but I was making and imping carpentry tools to 90 and fine carpentry to 80 in one sitting in a couple months and even now I can log in and do that. my tools for making it and the trees are right there. even once you get 5sp consistently. its 20RL days to before they can be bred. 13 to be used ( young horse stage) we are limited by the number of animals we can breed by deed size. there is a 3 month shelf life that currently is bugged and you can randomly loose 90ql horses "tools" just poof no longer exists for no reason. a bug that is recognized but not yet fixed that was introduced with the AH patch. tools you can make as many as you want and horde them deed ratio kills animals with miscarrages and disease after a certain threshold. when your 90QL tools take 13 RL days to be usable and require a RL 1-3 days cooldown between making them ( breeding cooldown after foal is born) 3-12 Real LIfe days at random until the timer for creating the tool completes.

 

why is my real life days worth less then yours?

 

 

YOU CAN IMP YOUR TOOLS. YOUR TOOLS DONT DIE OF OLD AGE.

 

I can not imp a horse. the ql it comes out at is the ql it stays. good breeding stock under this new system can die before giving you decent offspring.

 

 

now wit this last AH patch you have system similar to enchanting. the result is random and often worse then you re enchant if you enchanted it first. but enchanters dont have to wait 7-13 or  20 days before they get another enchant cast off cooldown to try for a higher power cast.

 

I have said this before. You do not need to breed your tools. if you make a tool and it is 90ql you do not need to wait 20 real life premium days to use it to make other high ql tools. you dont need to wait 5-12 days between selecting 2 tools to make another tool.

 

thanks tho for wanting an entire subset of the game to get over it because you want to punish them for some reason. I imagine someone refused to sell you a horse for nothing because their real life time was involved. Or you tried and failed to sell horses in a saturated market. this is no less an issue for any other crafting class. So why for some reason you want them to be worse then what you are capable of being? were you a breeder? or are you just angry at us for no apparent reason? Keep in mind everyone got hit with this speed nerf on vehicles which means high demand for draft animals since the animals they have are now much worse. Yet breeding them is much harder. which seems to be what you want. but pretty much everyone uses carts and wagons. which means 2-4 or even 6 animals per player not counting any just to ride mounts. they need to be fairly common for decent dont die to trolls speed. There are always exceptions but everyone uses these animals. traited ones should be common enough that somenoe can get them or breed them on their own just like any tool in the game similar to a hammer or mallet because its used for too many things to just be so rare that people are paying 4-10 silver per animal that potentially will only live 3 months if they dont level AH high enough to get enough care for slots to protect their animals.

 

---

I cant image how much the forums would explode if all 90ql metal tools got downgrades to 70ql even for the people that paid lots of silver for theirs and now are constantly asking the comercial metalworkers for 90ql tools that now are buggy as hell to make and no longer have any kind of consistancy. Then have dev's answer to this outrage was just make more you'll catch right back up pretty quick dont worry about it in the same post that introduced the changes. except now 90 skill crafters are struggling to make 70ql but carpenters skill/ql output didnt change stayed 90ql and dont have to worry about any of the new often buggy changes the metal crafters now face.

 

 

but its ok right? there market was over saturated with metal weapons and tools they were too easy to make.

 

----

 

we need the AH fixed mentioned in the update. completely ignoring the new casino mechanics there are a lot of bugs that got introduced that end in animals dieing for no reason even when cared for. This can effect everyone. Never touched breeding? thats fine but they should have their animal that they didnt make just up and die thanks to bugs. I really hope they can fix that.

Edited by Yserin
I keep having more to say. this post touched off a nerve.
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So given the limited button setup of a vr headset are we going to get improved improve finally or something along those lines? As it makes no sense to force players who use a vr headset to use a keyboard still if you guys go that route please just abandon vr all together as the joy of vr is to have a fully emerged experience with the head and 2 controllers being all that is really needed so unless wurm's ui gets a overhaul or qol changes are made to make vr(and non vr) based gameplay less click intensive i honestly do believe that vr will become a useless unused feature for 99% of the players who even have a vr headset to begin with.

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Eh, tbh the new breeding system is not that different from the old breeding system, it's just harder because the RNG is harder on you, meaning you get more foals that you will not keep. This "harder" part is probably intentional from their side - personally I will not stick longer than needed because I don't like killing so many foals. Many feel the same.

 

Getting the horses you wanted took many months before and it does so now. Nevertheless I have already sold dozens of maxed out horses in both categories and all the desired coat colors.

The dominant trait categories (which are stupid IMO) are stable although internally randomised, and the coats get passed on to a useful degree after they hotfixed that. Whether you get 2, 3 or 4 speed traits comes from a probability cloud based on whether the parents have many traits themselves. This seems to be what they intended. 

 

The one bizarre thing is that some categories of neutral traits (fight) are impossible to get to pass, while others pass with about half the frequency as before. This seems like an unintended bug that they should fix and probably will next month. And then there are the rare traits but let's forget about those for now and see what happens.

 

Regarding skill level, obviously higher skill level is better. You cannot max your draft horses until you have 65! Due to the difference between the 2 categories, I have "too high" skill for speed horses. Does this mean I cannot make maxed speed horses? Of course not, on the contrary I now have a good number of maxed out speed horses with certain spark, slow metabolism or other desired traits. Players at 80-90 skill will have a hard time controlling all their neutral traits, but they can still make horses with maxed out speed.

 

You cannot get similar results from continuously mating random horses that you have - hence it is not "all just a casino". You only get many maxed horses by breeding, carefully selecting and mixing, and keep breeding the best ones. And just like before, you have to make hard choices between the traits you get and also getting the coats that you desire - this is where using your brain is important and you cannot blame the RNG.

 

tl;dr:

The new system still rewards selective breeding, it is just harder and this makes it less fun for many.

 

 

Edited by CistaCista

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7 hours ago, Tukodama said:

Will this VR thing be an option or become mandatory to play this game?

 

It will be optional, VR is just another platform, similar to how games are released for PC and Xbox. 

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16 hours ago, elentari said:

I won't quote his full post but...

^Hire that guy. 

No offense to @wipeoutor @elentarisince this is not directed at you but at the whole Wurm community, but WHY? Even by standard models, that post would qualify as a resume of a candidate for a playerbase-followed leader, not a WO staff member.

 

Playerbase wants better communication between players and staff, but let's NOT have anyone who can effectively summarise the priorities of the playerbase, remaining a mere rankless player; let's have them be immediately hired as staff because being hired by CCAB is the yardstick of all worth and validation in the Wurm PvE community.

 

Yeesh. Could you propose something more self-defeating of improved staff-playerbase relations? The moment someone gets officially recognised as staff, they become a target for everyone with a problem with how Wurm is run - they become a convert to the enemy, tarred by direct association with RL business, and expected to perform miracles beyond what multinational corporations could achieve.

 

Promotion to officialdom is not a panacea. Even having a positive playerbase reputation gives one something to lose that can become a priority that skews other priorities.

 

You want to see what having the responsibility of an entire community's future resting on your shoulders does to people, come spend some time on PvP and get emotionally invested in this microcosm of a power pyramid. Our 'kings' burn out and quit playing, or they get so good at what they are 'supposed to do' they get banned for being one-step-too-far too-good at it.

 

Just because your pyramid has a broader base, does NOT mean its operates by different principles, but by equally flawed principles. You want better management policy, come sandbox a solution in-game, and until you have one that works, be humble enough to admit you don't yet know what would improve anything.

 

Be part of building a successful, full-contact Wurm Kingdom, before you propose to tell 'management' you could do their job better. Have a few full-stakes scraps with your allies, your enemies, and the people who set the rules for everyone, and learn from it where it affects nothing IRL. Because THAT functionality is already in-game, and chronically underutilised by the playerbase.

 

One day, when I'm happy that I feel equal to solving problems with my allies, with enemies, and with whatever staff members might cross our paths, I will come back to PvE, where THINGS, the money that buys them and the rules that govern such transactions, are important too - because that can become indispensable in larger communities where you can't get-to-know everyone personally, before making a transaction. But money should never be more important than people; it should become an abstraction of principles with people that ALWAYS work, not just work for naturally-charismatic people.

 

And until then, if the developers/investors say this is how they want to spend the money I contribute to paying them to keep this game running, whilst I learn how to better get along well with my neighbours in sustainable full-contact gameplay, then however weird a new feature sounds to me, I'll have nothing but words of support for them. Because I DON'T know better than them, how to spend money as money SHOULD be spent, I merely have opinions that I cannot communicate well to others who actually DO the work necessary to keep a community running, let alone flourishing.

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7 hours ago, Drayka said:

You want to see what having the responsibility of an entire community's future resting on your shoulders does to people, come spend some time on PvP and get emotionally invested in this microcosm of a power pyramid. Our 'kings' burn out and quit playing, or they get so good at what they are 'supposed to do' they get banned for being one-step-too-far too-good at it.

 

Dunno if we ever talked in game, but I started Wurm on pvp servers in 2012. 

 

Somewhere in 2013-2014 I went to MR on Desertion and I loved the people there. Over time I turned my deed into a newbie friendly deed and recruited many rookies. I had everything designed specifically for newbies, new plots of lands, barracks, workshop, food for them, mounts, links to useful info, created and updated spreadsheets that offered a better tutorial than what we have in Wurm with FAQs, made sure allies were ok, helped people recover corpses, organized many unique hunts to make them as fair as possible, (also often taking the flak for not being able to accommodate everyone's timezones, I apologise to our australian / new zealand wurmians) etc.   I won't ever claim I was a "king" but I did take it upon myself to helping out people whenever I could, whether it was by offering free armor or gear to people, advice or a helping hand. 

90% of those people eventually quit when Epic became stale, the rest 10% moved to freedom with the epic skill transfer. Time and time again I saw people whom I've done my best to make their time in Wurm enjoyable eventually quit, and over time it took the toll of me becoming a bit more jaded, less enthusiastic when I saw people quitting en masse. I felt that it was pointless at a certain moment to bother helping out new people because I knew that they wouldn't stick around more than a few hours and sadly I was proven more right than wrong over time. Did I ever run a kingdom? No. But looking through my deed logs, I saw that somewhere in the span of three years, I dedicated my time to help out around 100 different people giving them a home till they figured out what they wanted to do ingame.

 

I don't care if they logged out with some high values items, those can be replaced and Epic was full of them anyway. I care that they didn't login anymore. 

 

My point is I do know what the needs of some players (at least newbies on epic) were back then so I'm not exactly myopic when it comes to what a group of players want. I won't speak for the playerbase, but honestly, how many of us "need" Wurm VR right now? So many questions have been asked on this forum about X mechanic or Y bug, or Z imbalanced system. Wipeout made a list of things that should be ingame by now. the list is obviously not comprehensive, it can't cover all but it would be a damn good start before we get any VR thing going. 

 

With Wurm player population on the decline, this feels like the old Serbian / Romanian saying (rough translations " The country is burning while the old lady combs her hair". 

 

Edited by elentari
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Imagine two newbies on donkeys running away from troll, one hits too high slope and he is gone and other one is going to make it...

 

https://i.imgur.com/c4pPu60.mp4

Edited by Darnok

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1 hour ago, Drayka said:

 

You want to see what having the responsibility of an entire community's future resting on your shoulders does to people, come spend some time on PvP and get emotionally invested in this microcosm of a power pyramid. Our 'kings' burn out and quit playing, or they get so good at what they are 'supposed to do' they get banned for being one-step-too-far too-good at it.

I played on wild way back am playing currently on chaos too and outside of wurm i helped build a tf2 gaming community that ended up over 50k active members and a total of 49 different servers for different games i have been on that side of the fence plenty of times there were months where i did not have time to play tf2 on my fav 2fort server because there was too much work to be done to keep things in check and go over every single little thing

But you know what we did do? we listened to suggestions we checked our suggestion section on the forums we took in player feedback and we focused on making sure our servers and custom mods were 99%+ bug free before a dev was allowed to push out a content expansion for anything or more servers went up and because of it we grew and grew did we get countless suggestions from people that we could no accommodate or did not want to? yes but we still looked at them if a topic came up often enough. Did we roll back changes that were made even if a dev spend a long time on it because the community didnt like it? Yes. We ran a business it was registered as such and there was a lot of money coming in left and right and going out too for server cost and dev cost and so on it was a successful community and business that grew way beyond our initial scope of 5 tf2 servers put together by a group of like minded individuals.

We ran that place properly the community was happy the worst that would happen is someone being angry because they would believe someone was using a aimbot time and time again when infact those "aimbotters" were just long time good players the community was happy ideas were implemented quickly bugs were squashed rapidly and most of all we weren't afraid to come out and say we were wrong on implementing something instead of going straight onwards stubbornly no matter how many people it would anger.

You know what i learned from my time there? How a bug free piece of software is a lot better for community health then dangling the next bit of eye candy infront of players time and time and time again, we saw other communities do that and collapse because players left due to old issues remaining the case and that is the same here in wurm.

A lot of long time players quit because its those small things that annoy them that make them have enough of it, its the unfair biased treatment of staff towards certain people, its the fact that there are bugs that have excited for years that arent being fixed any time soon while we get new buggy content.

Wurm is run like Bethesda created its creator engine, it works yes but if you wanted it to float on water it would sink faster then a dense lump of osmium because of all the holes in it that need fixing and i have been hoping for years now that the staff would just take a year or so were they pause the addition of content and just focus purely on fixing bugs and standardizing content and making things more logical and clear for the average player as i do believe that if they take that step wurm will feel a lot nicer overall for everyone old and new alike but just like with "we are going to massively advertise the game after steam launch" such things are but dreams that wont come true but i will not give up hope as i want this game to grow if it didn't i wouldnt still be playing it after more then a decade and a half

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@DraykaIts bad enough that you constantly use pve as some kind of insult making pvp players look even more elitist and condescending than pve players already think they are, but you don't even know who you are talking to most of the time or where they play as those above beat me to pointing out. Just sit down and calm down, lay off the widening of the divide and try being a little less rude.

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13 hours ago, wipeout said:

So given the limited button setup of a vr headset are we going to get improved improve finally or something along those lines? As it makes no sense to force players who use a vr headset to use a keyboard


there's nothing wrong with using a keyboard and mouse in vr. i do it often.
I tried WO through Guy Godins virtual desktop a few times .. not so good for grinding but epic, for smelling the coffee and exploring. . with keyboard and mouse.
I dearly hope if and when we get VR, these control mechanisms aren't disabled.
As for improved improve.. there's a far better one available from inniria that Snidor has tweaked to perfection. just an fyi

If we need a modded experience for WO VR then maybe a VR server might work but i don't believe we do.
Sorry for talking about virtual reality again i know there's greater issues to address.

Edited by Steveleeb

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On 8/17/2021 at 7:40 AM, Samool said:

Obviously we’re not too happy with the current state of animal husbandry, and we’ve got multiple tweaks pending for the next update we release, including large changes to how traits are passed down (more likely to be passed down rather than replaced with random ones), lowering the chance of passing down negative traits as we’ve decided it was a bit too harsh, as well as significantly reducing the chance of getting traits not relevant to the animal, such as resource yield traits on animals that don’t produce any resources.

 

 

Yes, please.

 

Clearly something is not right.

 

New foal this morning:  2 speed traits, 3 Miscellaneous traits and an output trait.

 

Both parents have 4 speed traits and no other traits. Not related.

 

 

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10 hours ago, SmeJack said:

@DraykaIts bad enough that you constantly use pve as some kind of insult making pvp players look even more elitist and condescending than pve players already think they are, but you don't even know who you are talking to most of the time or where they play as those above beat me to pointing out. Just sit down and calm down, lay off the widening of the divide and try being a little less rude.

 

 

I love how your reaction to your perceived view of how I see PvE from a PvP perspective, is EXACTLY what I am saying the playerbase reaction to the staff looks like.

 

So the players think the staff are elitist and condescending, even though they don't know them as people, and all this drama is widening the divide with rudeness.

 

Thank-you for summarising my point so well.

 

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4 hours ago, Drayka said:
   
16 hours ago, SmeJack said:

@DraykaIts bad enough that you constantly use pve as some kind of insult making pvp players look even more elitist and condescending than pve players already think they are, but you don't even know who you are talking to most of the time or where they play as those above beat me to pointing out. Just sit down and calm down, lay off the widening of the divide and try being a little less rude.

 

I love how your reaction to your perceived view of how I see PvE from a PvP perspective, is EXACTLY what I am saying the playerbase reaction to the staff looks like.

So the players think the staff are elitist and condescending, even though they don't know them as people, and all this drama is widening the divide with rudeness.

Thank-you for summarising my point so well.

Maybe there was misunderstanding from both sides. To be honest, though a fervent enemy of tl:dr I regularly stop reading Drayka's posts simply because I lost track what his point is during reading. I don't exclude that SmeJack just misunderstood, and/or Drayka expressed himself unclearly.

 

I definitely support mutual respect between PvE and PvP players as both playstyles are legitimate and relevant for Wurm. Mutual bickering is a reality though, often by oversensitiveness from both sides. There is some reason to consider ascriptions of the kind "carebear" or "Freedumb" as arrogant and condescending, but also it does not take in account  that more rough conduct between factions in PvP is simply part of the game. Mutually, sometimes accusations exist that development favors or neglects the one or the other side. It is hard to decide, or even to know, how much of this is true, or just consequence of an overworked development team (ok, Epic is neglected indeed, still hoping for something in the pipeline).

 

As to the dev team, none of us is in the position to call them "elitist", that is just rubbish. They are "elite" insofar as they have - quite legitimately - access to the managenment's decisions and the authority to plan, shape and influence such decision making. That they should listen to the community, and uphold and improve communication and transparency, to their own, the game's, and the community's advantage, is another story.

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VR sounds like a really weird idea for the current Wurm as the controls and the way you play the game with them really doesn't suit VR controllers, unless the idea is that it's just another camera and that the player is to continue using the mouse and keyboard even with VR?

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VR just sounds terrible for this game.  Wurm is just not the sort of immersive experience that needs VR.  Then again, I've never seen the appeal of VR since I am horribly prone to nausea and motion sickness with those things.  It'd be more important to fix what is already broken then trying to add new features onto a framework that desperately needs love.  Try to make what you already have better than it currently is, and when the framework looks solid, then you might consider adding more touches and details to it.

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5 hours ago, Ekcin said:

To be honest, though a fervent enemy of tl:dr I regularly stop reading Drayka's posts simply because I lost track what his point is during reading.

100% fair. I don't require anyone to keep up, and I'm happy for non-autistic readers to skip my posts and topics, but I refuse to be politely invisible simply because I'm autistic. I REALLY need the practise in TRYING to communicate with non-autists. Failure is par for the course.

 

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Mutual bickering is a reality though, often by oversensitiveness from both sides.

I freely admit that I'm oversensitive, but for RL reasons, and that @SmeJackrightly, if imprecisely, called me on going a little too far. I'll try to do better next time.

 

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more rough conduct between factions in PvP is simply part of the game.

100% accurate; it took me 4 attempts to post a response that didn't include undue amounts of the verbal roughhousing I'm striving to learn for PvP. I was surprised to learn that the party it is aimed at can genuinely benefit from not being treated as sensitive - when it is done right from both sides.

 

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As to the dev team, none of us is in the position to call them "elitist", that is just rubbish. They are "elite" insofar as they have - quite legitimately - access to the management's decisions and the authority to plan, shape and influence such decision making.

Pfft. And stronger enemy accounts ARE elite and DO control the shape of the gameplay on a server. I didn't see anything in @elentari's excellent history - ty for publicly sharing - about promoting good relations with enemy kingdoms. High-quality frienemy relations are vital to keeping healthy populations of players of all Kingdoms on a server. If those relationships sour, the honeymoon period only lasts so long before you start doing real damage to other Kingdoms, not merely in-game damage in keeping with the culture of roughhousing.

 

And the same goes in playerbase attitude towards the Staff/Devs: I don't care if players view them as their enemy - that can be healthy too, done right - I require the playerbase to make the effort to learn the necessity of not seeking to obliterate enemy morale - in this case, the morale of our community's sole admin-level content-creators/maintainers - through sheer ignorance of the impact of their posted opinions. I would hope the reason for exercising such restraint is self-evident in this context, above and beyond what the posting guidelines mandate. Just because a habitual way of speaking is part of the normal PvE culture, does not mean it is automatically any less potentially vicious than an opinion expressed PvP-style.

 

TL;DR Knock off the zerging before you kill this game.

Edited by Drayka
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