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Samool

Update on development

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24 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Any word on priest balancing or is that considered "done for now"?

No more please. Every time they work on priests we get screwed.

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Nice, can't wait to stare at those timers in VR

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20 minutes ago, KillerSpike said:

No more please. Every time they work on priests we get screwed.

I have faith (well, more delusion at this point I suspect).

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I hope the account system arrives soon + I would love to move my character to Steam!

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Oh boy, when you think you saw everything. First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your real life problems @Samool and everyone else in the team.
I wish I can say that this post brings some piece to my mind, but i fear for this game even more. God i hope i'm wrong. Haven't got slightest idea how you plan to do VR integrated in Wurm, and on top of that make it that regular development doesn't suffer. Are you hiring someone who knows what he is doing and has expirience with VR or you just watched course on udemy and decided, heck why not. It does look to me like weird uneducated descision from game chest to me that you guys have to follow along and have crappy and ungratful job to let us know about it, but ofc you can never tell us that way 😅 After AH update, i'm not optimistic about exploration update either with it being shrouded in secrecy of details, nor i'm confident that ah fix will be total satisfaction, but hey, it can't be worst than current situation, again i hope i'm wrong, time will tell..

Anyway, yeah, VR seems like very weird direction, i certanly won't be using it anytime soon, even if i had VR set, playing VR is only novelty for short fun, and not way of regular full playing for hours, part of me still thinks this post is trolling lol. I just wish Wurm to survive months and years to come. 

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VR would be pretty neat while exploring some of the bigger deeds. I'd totally give it a try, but probably wouldn't spend most of my time in it. Thanks for the update.

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1 hour ago, Bittereinder said:

I hope the account system arrives soon + I would love to move my character to Steam!

Account management interface is probably my biggest desire.  Having all my alts in one place.  Having all my deeds in one place.  Setting up auto renewals for both.  Characters sharing a global bank account.  Web UI permissions management?  Copy/paste permissions to different roles?  Select all within roles?  So many great things that could really reduce ingame tedium and mistakes.

 

How about a few account enablement goodies that could be purchased, like consolidation of marks & rift points?  I'd pay extra for it.  Access to older skins?

 

Nearly everyone I know has multiple deeds and accounts. I bet this would be a bigger hit that VR.

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1 hour ago, Cheststrongwell said:

VR would be pretty neat while exploring some of the bigger deeds. I'd totally give it a try, but probably wouldn't spend most of my time in it. Thanks for the update.

 

Its a novelty, nothing more. I would be interested to know the average play time of people sessions, but I know many people who put 10+ hours a day into Wurm. The game is set up for this style of play. VR is NOT set up for that 10+ hour of playing and grinding. Sure if done right it could look great on some deeds sometimes...but why is something like that having resources put into it when there are so many great suggestions that get ignored. I cannot think that there is a huge base of gamers that would flock to Wurm because it now has VR...seems like a weird direction to go.

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To those ranting or fearing: My impression always was that Samool knew what he was speaking and planning about when it came to graphics. So I suppose he has a concrete roadmap how to implement and integrate it. As fas as it does not negatively affect server or client side I don't have any objections though I haven't the hardware for, and most prolly won't ever have.

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5 hours ago, Wurmhole said:

Oh no, please don't waste time on VR for Wurm.  You have far more important things to do.  I constantly hear about how staff is stretched so thin as it is already and to put content on hold for VR updates.  You say it won't slow down regular dev work, but seriously, how can that be possible?  Game Chest hire a team to do the VR?  Are you all getting paid for more hours in a work day to do the extra work?  Where is the extra time and staffing coming from?

 

I don't understand the motivation for VR.  VR is going to look terrible anyway, with the current graphics and super weird vehicle movement physics.  What happens to your last meal when your cart suddenly starts lurching at high speed, to catch up with all the movements you were attempting to do during a high latency period?  You better get some pretty extensive protection clauses for everyone to sign before launching VR.

 

I try not to be aggressively critical of new developments, but I have to say this one is just a bad idea and you are far better spending the time and resources elsewhere.

this

 

edit I have the vr hardware ( freaking expensive considering how little I use it now.I ended up using it to play beatsaber thats about it most games give me migranes in vr from framerate and lightshaft flickering) and wont do vr in wurm. VR is NOT set up for hours of grinding without doing real world harm to your eyes. we have ui lag intermittent fps issues, hitching ( temp game freezing for a second or two not animals) all of this makes people sick when playing vr, causes migraines and can cause seizers if poorly implemented. I would love to see the weather and day/night cycle in wurm. but I worry that you already dont have a dev time for current issues with our current systems to add an entirely new ui, interface and movement system.

 

the fact that vr is expensive ( for good quality equipment, and potentially necessary computer hardware updates) on top of people trying to get ps5 or literally any other budget based thing this is imo not a good thing to put development hours torwards. and if the parent company is simply hiring it out you still are going to loose time to it because you need to explain the code system known issues and bug testing. which will slow things down for the main wurm team as well. Along with making sure the two systems play nice in general.

 

thats assuming real life doesnt get in the way again. ( really I hope it doesnt no one deserves dealing with pain this last year is causing)

 

if you do intend to go forward with VR regardless I have a couple questions.

 

how do you intend to smooth out fps to avoid motion sickness and migraines?

 

there is texture flickering caused by forges and other flame based light sources. there are solutions to avoid this basically by burying your camera completely zoomed into a convenient object for those working by forges and ovens. this kinda negates the point of vr. will this be addressed?

 

how will chat be implemented? a lot of people will have issues blindly typing. ( eyes are covered remember)

 

is the code base and ui completely separate from what we already have given? If not in how much of the current ui will be touched to compensate. the old ui is being retired since keeping up on it and dealing with its limitations was taking to much resources. how will that be different with VR concerning the current ui? also the current ui takes up a hilarious amount of screen realistate the moment you need more then 2 containers open at a time.

 

Will we have significant time between the AH changes to find and address bugs?( using major change language means they are not simple tweaks)

 

in what way is this avoiding interfering with the main game development. Will the VR update have an integrated non-VR ui. Or is this going to be the new "only one code base to make it easier" thing that gets updated at this point? Making it the new standard.

 

will there be a separate log in system for both client types( doubling down on extra development and potential bugs that could be resolved long term by merging the two client systems and getting things more standardized) or are you migrating all accounts to steam for the already integrated VR settings and access system?

 

at what point if the system is to unwieldy, to costly or not working properly would you stop development on it ( WU)and would we be given significant warning?

 

in what way will this be different then WU concerning investment/return. please keep in mind you are essentially asking people that dont have VR to buy into VR for this game ( the money of which does not go to you). That will potentially see few patches or bugfix improvements. Since after several months of silence that are only now being addressed over bugs and qol issues with the last update. You are asking all of us to take it in good faith that this update will be handled more gracefully and professionally.

 

will there be a fee to help support the VR additions as a way to compensate for the cost of development time? ( if the VR codebase develpment is out sourced) as for example: extra 1$ 1silver a month to the sub to help offset the cost of development? Fee's paywalls like this or even onetime "expansion" sales as paywalls to help pay for new features is common. I really hope not but I dont know enough about the parent company to be confident about potentially not having a paywall to this feature.

 

-----

thank you for taking the time to update us on whats going on, addressing what will be touched in AH and telling us and the heads up about the upcoming vr system.

 

I appreciate the communication.

Edited by Yserin
punctuation and additional questions
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If it makes the development team happy and enthusiastic to be working on the code, then I'm pro VR. One of the things that always appealed to me about this game, was the backstory of Rolf trying to create an MMO all by himself, and to hell with what anyone said couldn't or shouldn't be attempted. I'd take that kind of attitude over an industry approved business meta any day. Whatever's in store for us all, sounds like it's going to be one hell of a ride getting there together. :)

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What    VR?  In wurm?  

 

I cant imagine grinding skills with VR. lol

I was hoping for fix some old stuff.

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17 minutes ago, Drayka said:

If it makes the development team happy and enthusiastic to be working on the code, then I'm pro VR. One of the things that always appealed to me about this game, was the backstory of Rolf trying to create an MMO all by himself, and to hell with what anyone said couldn't or shouldn't be attempted. I'd take that kind of attitude over an industry approved business meta any day. Whatever's in store for us all, sounds like it's going to be one hell of a ride getting there together. :)

 

Rolf has not been involved in many years, the game has been sold to the "Industry business" folks that you mention. Your statement reads, at least to me, that you are supporting the very thing that you don't want.

 

Wurm being sold and bought buy a business that is in the business to make money will do what they think is best for their asset. Some of us don't agree with the direction while others like it, that is up to each of us to have our opinions and voice them if we so desire. The next step is to start talking with their wallets if things are not going the direction that is desired. Its not good or bad, it is just simple facts of life. I don't think that we are near that point yet, though I know some have already made that decision to take their money somewhere else. I love Wurm and hope to see it around for many more years to come.

 

When Wurm was young and Rolf was still in charge, he could have that "to hell" attitude. That is no longer an option for a business that wishes to keep the doors open. There is always a point where ownership/management cannot have that kind of attitude anymore. It is my thought that Wurm is no longer in the position to say "to hell" with what anyone else wants or says, at least not if they wish to have any kind of growth.

 

With that said, I think it would be nice to know how much imput to decision making the current dev team has when it comes to the short term and long term goals of Wurm. How much influence do the "suits" have and what direction they wish to see Wurm go.

 

I don't like the VR addition, I don't think it will bring in many new players or retain players. But I'm not against VR if what was shared is the case. That the work on it will not hinder the work on Wurm that needs to happen. Though if that is the case one could assume that they are hiring / have hired new people to do this VR work. If so, it is my opinion that the time and money spent on VR could be put into other aspects of the game that have been needing to be fixed or added for years now. That is just my two cents.

Edited by gnomegates
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29 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

Oh, no!  What if VR is the exploration update?  

 

this was honestly my first thought reading it. xD

Edited by Yserin
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Next up, Wurm Live!  Landscape your garden and repair your house with you mobile phone!   Of course, you will only be able to see the results in a VR headset.  🤪

 

If they are looking for a quick gizmo that doesn't take resources from other already promised development, just bung bluetooth on it. 

 

Or....  find a way to get it to run on iOS/Android etc (I don't know that that hasn't already been worked out).

 

To be serious for a moment, I do recall GCG's update to shareholders talking of "new platforms".  It almost feels like the lowest hanging fruit to tickle a consumer response.  I can not see how there is any way to develop something other than what has already been promised without hampering the development of what has been promised.  Any resource committed to VR rollout is necessarily a resource that wasn't committed to fixing the AH update and completing the exploration update.

 

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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1 hour ago, TheTrickster said:

Next up, Wurm Live!  Landscape your garden and repair your house with you mobile phone!   Of course, you will only be able to see the results in a VR headset.  🤪

 

If they are looking for a quick gizmo that doesn't take resources from other already promised development, just bung bluetooth on it. 

 

Or....  find a way to get it to run on iOS/Android etc (I don't know that that hasn't already been worked out).

Wurm on Mobile would of been a better idea in my view. There are loads of AFK or semi AFK grinding games on Mobile Phones.  People can play them anywhere as well.  It is a wonder that they did not pick mobiles. Then again they would need to do a redesign for mobile phones, such as the UI.  Then again they would have to do that for the VR anyway so.....

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Wurm in VR this has to be a troll post .. as not April  yet!

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I have to ask. 

 

Are there plans to address the hands-off nature of the game in regards to VR? Given VR games are more than just "see with goggles", and benefit from actual gameplay requiring motion, how does this tie in with anything within Wurm? Will this lead to Wurm being active timer-less play? 

 

Or will this be wearing goggles while you watch timers? 

 

Additionally, has there been much looking into the portion of Wurm players who have, or are open to utilising VR, or is this a hope to attract a new playerbase of VR players? Given the former often play on older machines, and the latter enjoy VR due to the physical interactivity within the game, what is the plan to connect those two? 

 

I guess the bottom line question is: Is this something that will change HOW the game is played, or is it slapping a VR tag on the game hoping for a quick buck? 

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16 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I have to ask. 

 

Are there plans to address the hands-off nature of the game in regards to VR? Given VR games are more than just "see with goggles", and benefit from actual gameplay requiring motion, how does this tie in with anything within Wurm? Will this lead to Wurm being active timer-less play? 

 

Or will this be wearing goggles while you watch timers? 

 

Additionally, has there been much looking into the portion of Wurm players who have, or are open to utilising VR, or is this a hope to attract a new playerbase of VR players? Given the former often play on older machines, and the latter enjoy VR due to the physical interactivity within the game, what is the plan to connect those two? 

 

I guess the bottom line question is: Is this something that will change HOW the game is played, or is it slapping a VR tag on the game hoping for a quick buck? 

Bold part sum it up 

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maybe the VR is tied to this exploration update specifically in mind? a skill related to physical movement more than timer action

Edited by Jeston

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6 minutes ago, Jeston said:

maybe the VR is tied to this exploration update specifically in mind? a skill related to physical movement more than timer action

So how would this work with people who do not use VR? 

 

From my experiences with VR in wurm, it's "have a look around, wow" and that's it. 

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Yeahhhhh, I'm gonna assume Wurm VR is something the team is being pushed to do by Game Chest. Surely you're not so out of touch that you can't realize how poor of an idea it is.

 

The obvious issue being that Wurms gameplay in NO way supports VR interaction. Ever play a VR game that has the main gameplay focus be interacting with menus and watching timers? No, you haven't. If it was implemented as an option in the launcher for people to walk around and admire deeds, castles, mountains, it'd be fine. But it's being done with the intention of marketing the game as an actual VR MMO? You're kidding, right?

You're really expecting a VR user to browse Steams VR section, find Wurm and play it because it's in VR? All this is going to do is result in even more negative reviews from people expecting an interactive VR MMO, but instead they get a menu driven idle game that hardly engages players that're sitting on their ass at a computer screen.

 

Please tell your parent company, there's a reason it's been a joke.

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