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MordosKull

Reaction to Staff Statements on Game Status

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Drayka, you use a lot of red herrings and seem to just like to argue.. No one said staff is expected to be something beyond human 😆.

 

The point of the thread and what others have said here is just to express disappointment in what was communicated and how it was communicated. I'm not going to re-hash it all, as I think it was all spelled out pretty well previously, but hopefully we are on track to better times ahead - in regards to communications and game development alike.

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17 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

a professional is supposed to disregard human imperfections,

No, a professional disregards very little if anything.  What a professional does is employ their training, skills and acumen to resolve problems rather than inflame them.

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zCvEbii.png

 

 

 

The TL;DR of this is that this is how Enki posts have always been, and it's no change. Some people just feel justified in harassing this time, so therefore feels it is directed at them. 

 

That or they can't read that it's about the harassment, and the harassment only ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

 

Edited by Archaed
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3 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

No, a professional disregards very little if anything.  What a professional does is employ their training, skills and acumen to resolve problems rather than inflame them.

point out to me one 'professional' that will take human 'experience' into account. the emotion, the individuality, and the imagination. 

the point of a professional is 'standards' and humans dont have standards. we may all 'look' similar, but NONE of us are alike. in fact there are nearly 8 billion people on the planet. 


that is 8 million individuals. "Normal" doesn't exist. standards are only useful for things that have nothing to do with an individual. Facts and figures are the 'agreed upon' normal. 

i am so far outside normal that i scare most people: im rude, crude, and opinionated. the way the 'rules' are written, they are incomprehensible without someone sitting down and explaining what they are supposed to protect, because the only 'Law' or Rule that really matters to me is: it is not acceptable to cause distress an individual without their consent, where 'distress' is defined as an interruption or interference to that individuals ability to survive, succeed and be safe

A professional would completely disregard anything of what i say, JUST Because im not 'normal' 

That is the problem with being a professional. your 'standards' are all you are supposed to include.

being Human first says i may have 'standards' but im willing to work things out with you.
 

1 hour ago, Archaed said:

The TL;DR of this is that this is how Enki posts have always been, and it's no change. Some people just feel justified in harassing this time, so therefore feels it is directed at them. 

 

very much true. 

Edited by Tomatoes
grammar police

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10 hours ago, MordosKull said:

Drayka, you use a lot of red herrings and seem to just like to argue.. No one said staff is expected to be something beyond human 😆.

 

The point of the thread and what others have said here is just to express disappointment in what was communicated and how it was communicated. I'm not going to re-hash it all, as I think it was all spelled out pretty well previously, but hopefully we are on track to better times ahead - in regards to communications and game development alike.

As someone who has been 'invisibly' damaged by the impossibly high expectations of others to communicate in a way they find palatable at all times, of course there's bleed-through. I can't avoid that anymore than anyone who was 'hurt' by an authority figure losing his temper.

 

But there are so MANY of you ganging up to pick fault, that although it's happening more slowly and more politely than what happened with Demona, it's still exactly the same thing, just to a different target, and in the COLD BLOODED manoeuvring of leading an army in revolt, based on flawed logic.

 

I have strived so hard to live up to behaving 'professionally' at all times around others in my history, only to discover that it led to places so dark that NO-ONE wants to hear about them in open forum.

 

So if you want to blame anyone for my attitude of pushing back against a tide of an entire community putting huge social pressure on any one person, or minority group of people, to live up to their expectations of correct-conduct and be more respectful of their shared discontent, blame the trained medical professionals that taught me that no-one deserves to be pushed beyond breaking point by a community, and that it's healthy to have emotions like anger in reaction to that, even in public.

 

Blame the nurse who found time for a nobody like me, in the middle of a global pandemic, in a hospital corridor surrounded by trolleys of people who were likely dying and nothing could be done to save them, to teach me that being too professional in my relationships with others, was a DEADLY INSULT to my fellow man.

 

Sometimes, anger is the ONLY appropriate response, and expressing anything less than genuine anger, is a disservice to the community.

 

Don't you see the irony, in angrily expressing that someone else doesn't have the right to be angry? It's enough to emotionally confuse anyone, to be angry that someone is angry. The logic underlying the emotion eats itself like an ouroboros. The only ultimately justifiable response to anger, is startlement followed by gratitude. Gratitude that someone cares enough to ever be angry, instead of coldly professional to the point where the right to life itself is undermined.

 

If you genuinely don't agree with how an authority figure behaves when angry, and think that a human can do better, lead by example in forgiving and forgetting as a human, instead of being angry yourself. Comfort those who are upset that they have no reason to be afraid. Be more professional yourself, until you manage to put yourself in the same position, of having gone too far, in being professional.

 

Just don't forget to leave yourself an escape route, BY forgiving those who get angry. Because one day, that will be you facing the mob, and you will be the one who is alone, being asked to do more than is humanly possible, by people who neither know nor care why you broke your own rule of being professional at all times.

Edited by Drayka

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Wow I took some time off to work and pow more wurm drama ( i been playing on and off for 12 years no surprise really)

 

I would like to share some points that perhaps others might have come to a conclusion of long ago.

 

(1) To expect Wurm Devs or communication and it to be consistent is pointless it never has been that I remember.

(2) People have been trolling volunteers and using game exploits forever and they get fixed and new ones are found nothing new here

(3)  ROLF SOLD OUT TWICE  once to Wurm Online and Once to Gamechest and whatever he does now you got to realize this and understand that the Father of Wurm sold his creation to the highest best bidder and walked away and DOES NOT CARE.

(4) To think things change or get fixed quickly in Wurm is just plain ..unwise..stupid..naive  choose whichever word works It does not happen.

(5) Volunteers do not have the drive vision or over all impetus to perform for free lets be honest be happy for what they do but do not expect a bunch of doing.

 

Now I spent $350 bucks on wurm not long ago to set up 3 accounts and finish a tunnel and have my premium for a year and played 2.5 months solid 6-15 hours a day everyday. 

The whole AH thing was a good idea but not tested and failed massively but then again ( THIS iS NOT NEW FOR WURM) I won't bother examining mental scars from other updates.

 

 

SO TLDR version

QUIT setting your expectations of WURM at anything near a complete professional Vision driven team IT AINT THERE.

Instead set your idea of WURM as a group of high school buddies farting around with code on the weekends while they Roleplay D and D and drink to much soda and eat pizza.

I know for me it took all my expectations away and I no longer have any.

 

 

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1 hour ago, puncher said:

Instead set your idea of WURM as a group of high school buddies farting around with code on the weekends while they Roleplay D and D and drink to much soda and eat pizza.

 

this may have been true to wurm 10 years ago, but not now.....think of Staff as middle aged people with jobs and families that require their time first, then you would be closer to the truth.

 

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1 hour ago, puncher said:

QUIT setting your expectations of WURM at anything near a complete professional Vision driven team IT AINT THERE.

 

Reverse that for the customer then:  "Quit setting your expectations at anything resembling a customer that pays money for this". If wurm was completely free, no sub model, I'd have no expectations. 

 

But reciprocity is the basis of business and society. This is not sustainable. Also people bring this flawed argument for years on these forums "Yeah wurm's been dying for years ... but IT"S STILL HERE".

 

Yeah it's still here, with probably less than 200 unique players on SFI and @Etherdrifter's data points to the population on NFI dropping off a cliff. Epic is.... a decaying / mostly decayed corpse by now. 

Wurm will probably always be here. But this is the consequence of maintaining a game based on volunteers when they have spare time. Again not bashing any of the staff. I personally wouldn't volunteer for something like this. 

 

No vision = no growth. No risks = no expansion. (Don't get me started on VR). No full time paid staff = no roadmap. 

It is what it is. 

 

The only thing I'm sorry about is that i'm probably as jaded as puncher now. 

 

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1 hour ago, puncher said:

(3)  ROLF SOLD OUT TWICE  once to Wurm Online and Once to Gamechest and whatever he does now you got to realize this and understand that the Father of Wurm sold his creation to the highest best bidder and walked away and DOES NOT CARE.

Ask yourself one question: WHY did Rolf sell? 

oh wait, we already know he was TROLLED out of his own game.

Some people think 'trolling' is fun. Its not when it causes someone to abandon something they deeply care about. It not when you cause someone to lose emotional control. 

not everyone has the same ability in dealing with there own emotions. Give people a break

 

11 minutes ago, elentari said:

No vision = no growth. No risks = no expansion. (Don't get me started on VR). No full time paid staff = no roadmap. 

the problem here is that there IS a vision. we as 'consumers' are not told what that vision is. Personally i dont agree with that idea, but they have reasons. 

as for risk, not COMPLETELY necessary...setting goals would be better phraseology, and, well, they say they have goals. It may be SLOW, it may be buggy as hell, but they are getting SOMEWHERE.

 

not having full time paid staff is a detriment....but not to a roadmap.
 

Edited by Tomatoes

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1 hour ago, Tomatoes said:

oh wait, we already know he was TROLLED out of his own game.

Nonsense.. I do not recall a post from Rolf writing why he sold WO/CCAB.

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2 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

Ask yourself one question: WHY did Rolf sell?
oh wait, we already know he was TROLLED out of his own game.
Some people think 'trolling' is fun. Its not when it causes someone to abandon something they deeply care about. It not when you cause someone to lose emotional control.

Yeah I'm gonna need source or any source of proof for that one

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2 hours ago, Madnath said:

Yeah I'm gonna need source or any source of proof for that one

i dont have sources or proof, however:

WHY would someone sell off something they created??? 

SURVIVAL.

you need emotional control in order to drive a car, do your shopping, and work your job. the same goes for even a volunteer coding job 

 

words on a page CAN hurt people. It may unintentional, but it still hurts. 

Edited by Tomatoes

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Or Profit.

 

Remember, there were two co-founders of Wurm Online: Rolf and Notch.

 

Notch 'sold out' to Rolf.

 

What's Notch up to these days?

 

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3 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

i dont have sources or proof, however:
WHY would someone sell off something they created???
SURVIVAL.
you need emotional control in order to drive a car, do your shopping, and work your job. the same goes for even a volunteer coding job

words on a page CAN hurt people. It may unintentional, but it still hurts. 

 

2ui8j5c.jpeg

 

1 hour ago, Tristanc said:

Or Profit.

Remember, there were two co-founders of Wurm Online: Rolf and Notch.

Notch 'sold out' to Rolf.

What's Notch up to these days?

 

Rolf sold out, and I'm not going to sit and theory craft random stuff out of thin air with 0 basis based on muh feelies

This isn't something new to the world, people sell their creations on. Thanks for the chuckle though.

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3 hours ago, Tomatoes said:

i dont have sources or proof, however:

WHY would someone sell off something they created??? 

SURVIVAL.

you need emotional control in order to drive a car, do your shopping, and work your job. the same goes for even a volunteer coding job 

 

words on a page CAN hurt people. It may unintentional, but it still hurts. 

so no proof ok

 

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Feels like a lot of people are overthinking things. Speculation about what the parent company is doing, the motives behind the decisions of those running the game, and what the future holds. I feel like I was victim to that same mindset not long ago. At some point you just need to decide if the game is worth it for you or not.

 

tcwl9fN.png

 

Additionally, if people think that volunteers cannot maintain the game well, I would respectfully disagree. It's very much the people in charge who are gatekeeping progress on the game's development.

  • I provided a detailed summary of everything I had concerns about regarding my time on the development team to the new CodeClub CEO prior to the Steam launch. I didn't receive a response.
  • I offered to become a volunteer developer in 2020. It was declined. Twice.
  • Several other programmers put in applications to become volunteer developers for Wurm Online in 2020 and early 2021. None of them even received a response.
  • Myself and others contacted the CEO of CodeClub with concerns about the current state of the game. Nothing came of it.
  • I posted several weeks ago that there were strong indicators that development had halted. That became reality in the patch notes the next week where nothing was changed.
  • The update on development post was made a week ago. In that time, no development has been done for Wurm Online.

All it would take to turn the game around is someone at the top who actually gave a damn. Right now, there appears to be none. Not a single person fighting for the future of the game. Wurm will be living in the present and stay there indefinitely unless something changes. If you're satisfied with that, be happy and continue playing. If you're not satisfied, cancel your subscription until they decide to show that they care.

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10 minutes ago, Sindusk said:
  • The update on development post was made a week ago. In that time, no development has been done for Wurm Online.

To play devils advocate, they do say that the next actual patch/update will be happening next month. So I dunno, this one feels a bit weird.

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43 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

. I feel like I was victim to that same mindset not long ago. At some point you just need to decide if the game is worth it for you or not.

That one hit close to home and I'm grateful for it. 

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52 minutes ago, Sindusk said:

 

  • I offered to become a volunteer developer in 2020. It was declined. Twice.
  • Several other programmers put in applications to become volunteer developers for Wurm Online in 2020 and early 2021. None of them even received a response.
  • Myself and others contacted the CEO of CodeClub with concerns about the current state of the game. Nothing came of it.

 

You could say something came of it... A huge, continuing loss in paying customers, myself included

Really damning that they've turned down and straight up ignored proven, VOLUNTEER devs

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1 hour ago, Votip said:

so no proof ok

 

I was not here when rolf and notch were. i joined after. so there is no way *I* could have proof. HOWEVER the same thing applies:

Emotional control is necessary for survival. NOT EVERYONE has the same ability with it. nor do we all have the same experience in using emotions. 

ROLF LEFT. if he sold out then he sold out, however there is WAY too much into this game for him to have NOT cared about it on some level....Unfortunately trolling staff is a *THING* around here. 

Trolling is the act of doing/saying something to a person in order to get an emotional reaction---ie make that person LOSE CONTROL.

is it really this hard to connect the dots????

 

3 minutes ago, Jore said:

Really damning that they've turned down and straight up ignored proven, VOLUNTEER devs

that depends on the REASON it was declined. Doubtful they wouldn't have one, even if they didn't tell them

.

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2 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

is it really this hard to connect the dots????

considering that you talk about "emotions" and not about proofs, yes it is

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34 minutes ago, Votip said:

considering that you talk about "emotions" and not about proofs, yes it is

when is experience PROOF? When you actually live it. 

 

as for emotions: EVERYONE HAS THEM. if you are not using yours you are missing out on the BEST part of life. If you don't want the pain from emotions, well, I don't blame you, however you will still miss out.

Humans don't have 'instincts': we have something much better: emotions, imagination and reasoning. Due to this humans do one thing that really is MASSIVE: Humans help other humans survive. "Survival of the fittest' ended when we started forming communities to protect each other. 

 

Everyone is an individual, everyone deserves to survive, succeed, and be safe. and emotions are at the core of 'individuality'

TL;DR if you are not including emotion in your 'calculations' you are not doing a complete job.

Edited by Tomatoes
added TL;DR

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26 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:
45 minutes ago, Votip said:
48 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

is it really this hard to connect the dots????

considering that you talk about "emotions" and not about proofs, yes it is

when is experience PROOF? When you actually live it. 

 

#languagebarrier

 

Courts of law distinguish between hard evidence, circumstantial evidence and compelling interpretation based upon shared human experience, yet all have their place in the trial, to the yardstick of beyond-all-reasonable-doubt.

 

And for the record, there are no transcriptions of IRC to quote, afaik.

Edited by Drayka
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19 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

as for emotions: EVERYONE HAS THEM

You need to make up your mind.  You have pretty much already said professionals don't, because apparently people who do their job properly are not human. 🤔

 

21 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

if you are not including emotion in your 'calculations' you are not doing a complete job.

which is almost exactly the problem with the "sees red" post, as many people have explained many times.  A professional communicator does a complete job partly through understanding not just what message they intend to send but also what message their audience will receive  - a lot of this is through empathy.  It is true that professional empathy is weighted more towards cognitive empathy than affective empathy, but cognitive empathy is actually less subjective and more reliable.  (Oddly, people with ASD type communications and interactions often need to rely more on intentional cognitive empathy to compensate with varying difficulties with affective empathy).

 

22 minutes ago, Tomatoes said:

Humans don't have 'instincts':

er....  🤨

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