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MordosKull

Reaction to Staff Statements on Game Status

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I've been one of the many that are highly disappointed and concerned at how the game is being managed right now. But, in light of recent staff statements, I am even more disappointed. Enki, your statement on seeing red read more like a threat and excuse than anything reassuring to the community that is wondering what is happening. When you say things like the staff are not robots and "are very busy and have lives too ya know", it sounds like we, the customers, are in the wrong for wanting an engaged management. That is not wrong. That is wanting what all decent and living games provide today. We are paying customers. You are here because of us. 

 

You also say "all this doom and gloom is just a mood that people feel from time to time, public updates will resume when the devs are ready", and this, to me, sounds like Wurm is not about us, the players, but about you, the staff in the background, and what is good for you. More salt in the wounds..

 

Otherwise, your entire statement, including the title of seeing red comes off as very threatening and very unconcerned for the player base and where it stands. If anyone was doxxed or harassed, I never saw it, but that is certainly wrong and should be punished. However, deep dissent alone certainly is not grounds for punishment, and I hope that's not what is being insinuated. It feels that way.

 

Pandalet apologized at one point for the lack of engagement by staff and mentioned holidays in Europe, but in my experience, significant holidays were always acknowledged by the game and its management, not a cause for total neglect of the game and its players. Demona, mentioned personal issues, and of course, I feel bad for such issues. Likewise, Enki acknowledged being away for a while. So my question is if all of the staff is either on vacation or out due to personal issues, at what point is this unacceptable? It's been going on for long enough. Then we receive this damning statement from Enki, like we're being bad children for being sick of how Wurm is being run right now.

 

Wurm is a 24/7 entertainment and service-providing business. Like any other business that makes its money in this capacity, there needs to be regular engagement and management. No other business like this can just expect to disengage but then have a happy customer base that stays infinitely happy and loyal. Wurm is no exception. Instead, we've got a contest that was totally dropped with zero results but excuses, broken animal systems with no fixes in sight, zero acknowledgement of huge dates like the Steam anniversary, no monthly updates as promised, and very little communication except to make excuses and even threaten the player base for a very legitimate state of insurrection. 

 

If I get banned for saying all this, then fine, Wurm isn't the place for me, but I very much wanted to say that the disappointment in a game I love (and an alternative digital life I've long-loved) runs deep right now. It runs even deeper when there is no sincere apology from staff, but excuses and even threats over not just shutting up and expecting nothing but what staff wants to do "when they are ready."

 

We deserve better.

 

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3 hours ago, MordosKull said:

 So my question is if all of the staff is either on vacation or out due to personal issues, at what point is this unacceptable? It's been going on for long enough.

 

 

I don't think that it's entirely unacceptable as we know the staff are volunteers. But what is indeed unacceptable is that they don't communicate to tell us that things are going to be slow for a bit. If Pandalet's apology had simply been an announcement made when devs started dropping out due to RL issues then people would have known what to expect. Managing the expectations of a community is indeed critical. Otherwise doom and gloom, toxicity, etc is exactly what you get, or people just get disillusioned and leave, and the fault for that then lies entirely with the lack of communications from the staff. I've seen it happen with other games and its really unfortunate when it does.

We've been asking for more communication for months now, like for most of the year at this point. There have been plenty of warnings from people who saw exactly in which direction things were heading in the community due to this lack of communication, yet nothing changed until things eventually boiled over (and the end result was pretty disgusting, some people really deserve bans for what was written).

 


tldr: please communicate more with the community, even if it's just something as simple as an announcement telling us that the next update might take a while due to RL issues amongst the staff, combined with summer holidays. What these RL issues entail is none of our business, but at least tell us when something is up that will greatly affect the release schedule! Even more so after the last big update was not that well received and still contains a lot of issues that need fixing. That's absolutely not a state you want the game to be in when you decide to go for total radio silence with your community. In this case such an announcement would have made a lot of sense in place of the monthly patch for July, for example ;)

Edited by Ecrir
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Considering that Enki's post was meant for about 2% of the actual playerbase most have nothing to worry about. Everyone at the middle management level are not paid (except their premium maybe, unless that changed) and use their own personal time to deal with everyone elses issues. They don't get to play the game, they have to babysit everyone else. I think people just really need to get over themselves and realize that this isn't a triple A title. As for the paying customer thing, I just spent $380 in the shop last night and $200 last weekend, I could care less about updates and skins. Everyone needs to calm their utters and go back home please ty. 

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I am very happy if they permaban the scum that tried to traumatise the community manager. Enki is doing his job here and I applaud him.

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16 minutes ago, CistaCista said:

I am very happy if they permaban the scum that tried to traumatise the community manager. Enki is doing his job here and I applaud him.

 

Hear hear! 

 

Frankly, this is all sounding like "yes we were abusive, but that's cos YOU made us" is downright maddening.

 

Enki is not saying anyone is in the wrong for wondering what's going on, he's addressing several issues:

Harassment of staff

Exploiting of game mechanics

 

If you read his message, and felt he was targetting you, take a good hard think about your actions and whether you were doing any of the above.

 

Quite frankly, this post again just oozes "you made me hit you" and that's just disgusting. 

 

Now, if that's not what you meant, and all you mean is "hey, we'd like these concerns addressed" that's fine, because I think everyone does, including the devs I'd imagine, so please do clarify that you actually aren't referring to enki seeing red as personally offensive due to the harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs that is entirely separate to the issues you raised, and instead would like a post acknowledging the issues raised and their status, that would be great to clarify. 

Edited by Archaed
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36 minutes ago, Archaed said:

 

Hear hear! 

 

Frankly, this is all sounding like "yes we were abusive, but that's cos YOU made us" is downright maddening.

 

Enki is not saying anyone is in the wrong for wondering what's going on, he's addressing several issues:

Harassment of staff

Exploiting of game mechanics

 

If you read his message, and felt he was targetting you, take a good hard think about your actions and whether you were doing any of the above.

 

Quite frankly, this post again just oozes "you made me hit you" and that's just disgusting. 

 

Now, if that's not what you meant, and all you mean is "hey, we'd like these concerns addressed" that's fine, because I think everyone does, including the devs I'd imagine, so please do clarify that you actually aren't referring to enki seeing red as personally offensive due to the harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs that is entirely separate to the issues you raised, and instead would like a post acknowledging the issues raised and their status, that would be great to clarify. 

Me for an example, didn't had a clue who is harrasing who. Don't expect everyone else beside too invested 20 people on the forum to keep right on track about the latest dramas

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17 minutes ago, Tor said:

Me for an example, didn't had a clue who is harrasing who. Don't expect everyone else beside too invested 20 people on the forum to keep right on track about the latest dramas

Right, so don't take enkis post about harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs as any indication that you're being bullied. 

 

Enki is talking on those topics only. 

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This has become a complex soup of various issues, feelings, emotions and problems. Touching on any single topic now is like walking in a mine-field. I write this post with some mixed feelings of fear to be attacked by players base, and hope that better times will come. There is still much we do not know, and community is tense.

 

That Enki is choosing to be open with communicating, and letting us all be included in the knowledge about game master related issues is a good thing. I am not aware of what things some people have done to trigger this, but I do know many people choose to exploit bugs instead of reporting them. I think this is what we want, to be informed. When I first read this post I was reading it as a reaction to our ask for intel about the game state, and I too had similar feeling as OP. How ever, I am open to the chance that this is an unfortunate coincidence. If this had happened with no other sidelined issues, and we had suffered from players stealing our stuff, then I think most would be very happy that the GM team go hard out.

 

That said, the OP post here is a good, reflective post, that show how it was received, by many. So, all I ask, is that we keep it civil, we show that we are understanding if there was misunderstandings.

 

Again, this is not at all any attack on the OP, rather the opposite, the OP here shares feeling many have at this point. It is just an ask that we, the players, do not escalate this thread as well into a flame-war.

Edited by Drogos
typo
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I do agree that we need some better communication - on both sides. It's one thing to express disappoint in something, quite another to harass and harangue a fellow player who happens to be in some kind of staff capacity. Most of the them are volunteers who are not compensated by the silver/money we put into the game. I can see them being just as upset as we the player base are on a lot of topics. We need to figure out a better system than this.

 

I do play a number of other games, a large  number of them with Dev teams based in European nations. Almost all of them have had no content added since July and aren't expected to add any until mid-August. I realize the difference is that they released a statement - something we need.

 

I am disgusted at the lack of empathy for some of the players who have been dealing with rather serious RL issues. Staff or not, they are people first. If they reported to the higher up a need for time away and was approved, that's all that matters. The higher up should have stepped in and alerted us on the change. But to be that rude concerning grief and loss, I'm glad I limit my time here.

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The staff-player relationship is a symbiotic arrangement, and like any relationships it has its ups and downs and we drift apart and come together in a pretty regular pattern.  It's the normal ebb and flow of the yearly development cycle.  At least it helps me to see things that way.  I think it would help to put up a year planner, and mark up the parts of the year where staff-player interaction is going to be low (e.g. now during the summer) and also highlight the times of year when updates and input are going to be more intensive (around October and on towards the New Year).  These 'quieter' and 'busier' times are also going to mirror the active player numbers.     If I can look at this, I can more easily bear in mind that the summer is a quieter time for both parties, perhaps then I can give the staff a bit more space and try to be a 'lower maintenance' player during these times.  We have to cut the staff some slack at these times, because they are volunteers, and they need a break, seriously.  Let them use this time to build themselves up mentally, emotionally and physically - recharge their batteries - for the onslaught of Halloween and Xmas, when we all know we players will be at our most demanding and 'high maintenance'. :) 

Edited by Muse
typo
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15 hours ago, Archaed said:

Right, so don't take enkis post about harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs as any indication that you're being bullied. 

 

Enki is talking on those topics only. 

To be honest that wasn't clear.  Given the extended radio silence and growing concerns and yes complaints from committed paying customers about the protracted lack of any let alone meaningful communication, the first two posts from staff breaking the silence came across as unapologetic smack-downs, the second more-so than the first.   Yes, real life happens, and it does indeed seem like real life has been particularly real for some staff - if they need to deal with that then it will of course be their priority.

 

BUT - the parent company  basically told their investors that they weren't taking a break for NH summer, but "We at Game Chest drive on and take advantage of this low season to improve and give our customers a happy return ”

 

The parent company should have communicated when that changed.  

 

"I know you have been concerned about the lack of recent public updates, and all this doom and gloom is just a mood that people feel from time to time,"  misses the point.  It isn't just a mood that people feel from time to time, it is concern about the lack of recent public updates.

 

".. public updates will resume when the Dev team are ready.  They are very busy and have lives too ya know."   The last sentence is fair enough, but the bit right before it is part of the problem.  

 

The posts themselves would probably not be taken disproportionately if they were not in isolation.  For instance if there was a communique saying "Sorry, folks, life happened and the wheel fell off.  We expect that things will return to normal in due course. In the meantime we appreciate your concerns and are grateful for your continued patience," instead of "All this doom and gloom is a just a mood...public updates will resume when the Dev team are ready."

 

I have never experienced a company that responds to customer concerns and complaints this way.  It's a bit of a weird feeling being a paying customer calmly expressing genuine concerns and wondering if the response will be a banning.

 

That said, "concerns" and personal venom at staff (paid or no) are two completely different things.

 

Edited by TheTrickster
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I personally DON'T care for steam anniversary..

WHEN did we last celebrate FREEDOM or EPIC anniversary, c'mon...

 

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10 minutes ago, Finnn said:

I personally DON'T care for steam anniversary..

WHEN did we last celebrate FREEDOM or EPIC anniversary, c'mon...

 

😊

 

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Though anniversary celebrations are the least pertinent misses of all the misses that happened, they were the subject of numerous threads, and Demona agreed in one post and said she'd come up with something. It's probably a bit late now, however.

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20 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

😊

 

Exactly.. I do not care about ANY of that, exactly because we or ccab or anybody never do anything like that for no reason for the other servers or clusters, it's not a thing, wait for the 10year anniversary and get a party, just like indy did?

 

Only anniversary I'm aware of celebrating is ccab/WO's which normally meant some event exp/item or something like that.. I've been on breaks on probably half of the happened during my playtime.

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Once again, we are aware within staff that communications are not ideal right now.  As has been said already, most staff are volunteers, and that means that things sometimes take longer to resolve than one might like.  I can't give anything more concrete than this, as I'm simply not in a position to do so, but please know that you are being heard, and we're doing what we can to improve the situation.

 

To repeat what has been said elsewhere, if you aren't doing the sort of things Enki called out, then his post doesn't apply to you.  I hope the fact that we're trying to clean up some of the worst vitriol and toxicity comes as some comfort to the majority of our player-base.

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5 hours ago, PandyLynn said:

I do agree that we need some better communication - on both sides. It's one thing to express disappoint in something, quite another to harass and harangue a fellow player who happens to be in some kind of staff capacity. Most of the them are volunteers who are not compensated by the silver/money we put into the game. I can see them being just as upset as we the player base are on a lot of topics. We need to figure out a better system than this.

 

I do play a number of other games, a large  number of them with Dev teams based in European nations. Almost all of them have had no content added since July and aren't expected to add any until mid-August. I realize the difference is that they released a statement - something we need.

 

I am disgusted at the lack of empathy for some of the players who have been dealing with rather serious RL issues. Staff or not, they are people first. If they reported to the higher up a need for time away and was approved, that's all that matters. The higher up should have stepped in and alerted us on the change. But to be that rude concerning grief and loss, I'm glad I limit my time here.

 

we repeatedly asked polity for literal months.

 

funny how well peaceful protests of a situation never actually work.

--

 

 

 

edit:

that said

the people actively threatening and attacking demona along with other people absolutely needed banned.

Edited by Yserin
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7 hours ago, Archaed said:

 

Hear hear! 

 

Frankly, this is all sounding like "yes we were abusive, but that's cos YOU made us" is downright maddening.

 

Enki is not saying anyone is in the wrong for wondering what's going on, he's addressing several issues:

Harassment of staff

Exploiting of game mechanics

 

If you read his message, and felt he was targetting you, take a good hard think about your actions and whether you were doing any of the above.

 

Quite frankly, this post again just oozes "you made me hit you" and that's just disgusting. 

 

Now, if that's not what you meant, and all you mean is "hey, we'd like these concerns addressed" that's fine, because I think everyone does, including the devs I'd imagine, so please do clarify that you actually aren't referring to enki seeing red as personally offensive due to the harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs that is entirely separate to the issues you raised, and instead would like a post acknowledging the issues raised and their status, that would be great to clarify. 

Frankly, this is all sounding like "yes we were abusive, but that's cos YOU made us" is downright maddening.

 

^ that statement right there is how enki's post came across to me only directed at the player base. Nothing about that post felt specific aside from I was gone but now I am here and its to punish you ( some rightfully justified) otherwise its def open to a lot of interpretation. One of those being that the first real post we get in months on the game is him threatening the player base and telling them you'll get updates when you get updates. which you know isnt an update in itself. I personally don't agree with the tone of the post acting sounding like a parent being condescending to a toddler. For me this is not an update or even communication. It doesn't count as such.

 

also that still did not address any concerns of the user base. aside from we will get to it when we get to it which again is not professional and is not acceptable for a subscription service after several official representatives gave specific time (days often) when an update on the situation would be given. Then it did not happen.

 

otherwise everything that can be said about the communication from this company and the lack there of. the lack of professionalism from a business and the amount of victim blaming and threats over all of this whole situations has been said multiple times by multiple people. 

it started out polite. not sure why anyone was surprised when it escalated after months of neglect.

Edited by Yserin
wish the allaince hadn't pointed this post out to me.
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2 hours ago, Pandalet said:

To repeat what has been said elsewhere, if you aren't doing the sort of things Enki called out, then his post doesn't apply to you.

 I appreciate what all you said as far as acknowledging the issues and such,  Pandalet, but on the contrary and respectfully, this post is about how we as a community feel about recent staff communique. To say that this post is not relevant to someone unless they committed the violations Enki listed is incorrect. This is why the post was titled " Reaction to Staff Statements on Game Status" and was appropriately posted in Town Square.

 

Again, I do appreciate what you've said above, but this post pertains to anyone who wants to say how they feel about recent staff communique in light of the game's current circumstances, provided there is nothing inappropriate said or done. Please don't shut it down.

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You know communication is bad when people see a post like "Enki Sees Red" as a positive development.

 

If you're dealing with personal issues, fine. There should be at least one staff member who's not too incapacitated to drop a friendly note into the forums: "hey, things have been rough, pandemic, health issues, thanks for bearing with us!" It's amazing how little communication is really needed for those who want to be loyal members of the community, but worry that they're being ignored (except when it comes to collecting money).

Edited by Sheffie
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6 hours ago, Archaed said:

Right, so don't take enkis post about harassment towards staff and abuse of bugs as any indication that you're being bullied. 

 

Enki is talking on those topics only. 

 

Your posts seem to indicate that you are still on the payroll here. You don't speak for Enki anymore, do you?

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56 minutes ago, Gumbo said:

 

Your posts seem to indicate that you are still on the payroll here. You don't speak for Enki anymore, do you?

No, I just have the ability to read a post and understand what it means 

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2 minutes ago, Archaed said:

No, I just have the ability to read a post and understand what it means 

 

Perhaps you should extend that coutesy to everyone else.

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20 minutes ago, Gumbo said:

 

Perhaps you should extend that coutesy to everyone else.

 

those of us that know would if we could, but being as the only way to explain it is for you to experience what it means to serve a group of people, the only way for you to understand it would be for you to do so, or share our experience, both of which are your choice.

/shrug

 

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