Middi

Fatigue Removal

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In the spirit of the recent wave of suggestions:

 

<Sarcasm>

 

Fatigue should be more punishing.

If you can play more hours per day than me, your horses should die.

If you are an older player than me, your fatigue should drop faster, depending on the age of the account.

This would bring in more players, guaranteed 100% #trustme.

Once you run out of fatigue, you could buy replenishment packs from the shop but to make it fair, they should replenish a random amount of fatigue.

 

</Sarcasm>

 

In all seriousness, i never understood this anti-macro solution or the shuffling of inventory items order. Both can be easily circumvented by those who care but negatively affect those who simply can and want to play honestly.

With 100% creation chance on most bulk materials which would be the most teasing thing to automate (which i assume was the whole reason behind implementing fatigue to begin with) it stops no one to alt-spam the same materials on 5 toons while another 10 are sleeping it off and rotate the workforce.

 

 

Ps. sorry i didn't fit more -should- in there, i did my best. I'm still learning.

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I employ a reliable solution to this, and have never hit the limit - in fact I didn't know this was even a thing until I investigated the "You feel rested" message I kept getting.

 

My solution is this - a short span of attention.  

 

I play to play.  I cannot stomach long sessions of grinding - I just have to move around and do a variety of things.  I know this is probably not the solution that people want, because it is essentially about playstyle, but I manage to enjoy the game without this ever becoming an issue.

 

 

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I just hit my fatigue. Now i cant play for 36 hours. ( to regain it fully )

 

That this system should prevent botting makes no sense anyway. Maybe it limits people using bots ( i bet us 400 players are all bot programming overlords btw ) but for sure would not prevent it.

 

I got a ton of sparetime.. i play online games since the 2000 ... this is the first game that locks me out for some reason.

 

No iam not going to make a toon. 

 

Is there any way to get rid of this ? Iam not using macros.. iam not botting nothing. Iam a legit player and i get locked out for NO REASON.

 

You know what botters would do ? Just make alts. Now the system doesnt affect them.

 

You know who gets affected tho ? Players like me. 

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13 hours ago, goemo said:

I just hit my fatigue. Now i cant play for 36 hours. ( to regain it fully )

 

That this system should prevent botting makes no sense anyway. Maybe it limits people using bots ( i bet us 400 players are all bot programming overlords btw ) but for sure would not prevent it.

 

I got a ton of sparetime.. i play online games since the 2000 ... this is the first game that locks me out for some reason.

 

No iam not going to make a toon. 

 

Is there any way to get rid of this ? Iam not using macros.. iam not botting nothing. Iam a legit player and i get locked out for NO REASON.

 

You know what botters would do ? Just make alts. Now the system doesnt affect them.

 

You know who gets affected tho ? Players like me. 

You can go out and hunt, that's fun, no?

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3 minutes ago, Finnn said:

You can go out and hunt, that's fun, no?

So forcing players to do something is your fix to the issue? Keep in mind when you hit fatigue you cant tame, cotton, repair.

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Take a shower, pickup some groceries, do some actual irl chore, play some more, now you have plenty of time to do something and have at least 1 hour of fatigue to sponge with cotton if you must, high ql LT weapon usually skips all need to cotton sponge.

 

Old warframe had the usual joke when they are about to do maintenance... 'go get a shower, throw the trash, clean up a bit, etc etc..' guys/girls posting these in event log there were CREATIVE! Unsure if they still do that now.

 

Some actions are questionable.. maybe just few of the skills need to use less fatigue, but the system else works fine, failed actions for mining/shipbuilding/etc.. do not give skill or give some scuffed gains.. maybe these times should not 'eat' fatigue time -> problem solved.. instead of X hours of fatigue.. now you get a whole new stretch to nolife play and not take a bath for a while, maybe play whole weekend and take a day or 2 off to keep the party going. If the failed actions were 50% of the gains.. and a change removes that.. that's 50% more time to use.

 

Typical complain for this mechanic is not about - it happens here.. lets fix this.. it's normally - oh this stops me from doing something - remove it completely!

 

Doesn't matter what I think, whoever takes decisions for this will do whatever they want in the end. Do we need the mechanic, should we ditch it? Maybe/Maybe not?

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59 minutes ago, Finnn said:

Take a shower, pickup some groceries, do some actual irl chore, play some more, now you have plenty of time to do something and have at least 1 hour of fatigue to sponge with cotton if you must, high ql LT weapon usually skips all need to cotton sponge.

 

Old warframe had the usual joke when they are about to do maintenance... 'go get a shower, throw the trash, clean up a bit, etc etc..' guys/girls posting these in event log there were CREATIVE! Unsure if they still do that now.

 

Some actions are questionable.. maybe just few of the skills need to use less fatigue, but the system else works fine, failed actions for mining/shipbuilding/etc.. do not give skill or give some scuffed gains.. maybe these times should not 'eat' fatigue time -> problem solved.. instead of X hours of fatigue.. now you get a whole new stretch to nolife play and not take a bath for a while, maybe play whole weekend and take a day or 2 off to keep the party going. If the failed actions were 50% of the gains.. and a change removes that.. that's 50% more time to use.

 

Typical complain for this mechanic is not about - it happens here.. lets fix this.. it's normally - oh this stops me from doing something - remove it completely!

 

Doesn't matter what I think, whoever takes decisions for this will do whatever they want in the end. Do we need the mechanic, should we ditch it? Maybe/Maybe not?

So your answer is not play the game? Also keep in mine is 3h offline for 1h of fatigue.

Edited by Atndy

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11 minutes ago, Atndy said:

So your answer is not play the game? Also keep in mine is 3h offline for 1h of fatigue.

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

Edited by zethreal
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1 hour ago, zethreal said:

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

He was saying leave and do chores.  

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2 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

 

Excellent community assistance, just troll the players.

 

Can we get a slow clap over here.

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2 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

 

Sleep bonus is not comparable to fatigue as it does not stop you playing the game if you none left.

 

Please present reasoned argument against removing fatigue or stop trolling and go provide some community assistance elsewhere.

Edited by Middi
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This is the wall that every game designed with high repetition system is going to hit sooner or later.

 

Maybe instead of complaining it is worth giving some alternatives?
For example:
The more tired character, the more resources he consumes during each action, i.e. if we chop a tree, we get less logs, if we dig or mine dirt/tar/clay/rocks/ore not every action gives a resource (something like surface mining only graded).

If we improve or create an item, it requires a few percent more material, if player continues to spam same actions, it will be a 10+% instead of few.

 

Then player could continue to play and it would be up to him at which point spamming actions ceases to pay off.

 

OR

 

Add a bit of complexity.

For example, after player cut tree he cannot chop it to logs until it is dry (I mean he could, but result would be log 1ql), it could take several hours to dry fallen tree.

Similarly with ore, it takes minutes to melt ore into metal lumps, maybe it should take several hours?

Then players who would like to spam actions many hours a day would need tons of resources, and preparing these resources would take a lot of time and space.

A pile for fallen trees could be quite large, e.g. 2x2 tiles, and store 10-15 trees.

Smelting ore would take several hours so forges and smelters would be occupied by that time and player would have to refuel them (and build them).

 

OR both at same time.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, zethreal said:

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

That makes not a lot of sense. Because only wanting to play with sleep bonus is an option. Getting fatigue is not an option its forced upon you. The reason its forced upon you is also outdated and false too. 

 

Also you kinda didnt give a reason what would actually stop you from grinding skills once the sleepbonus runs out.. you just said you wouldnt be able to do anything in wurm then even though you can do literally everything in this game with sleep bonus or without it.

 

But i even agree with you on something. Its a stupid system. People travel from island to island to grab the sleep bonuses.. ( rites ) which you could see as a form of gameplay. But its busy work of the finest sort and you could simply speed up skillgain permanent by 2x you would have the same effect ( i dont want that btw )

 

Bottom line your point is pretty badly thought out. The sleep bonus system is at least tied to money and finances the game. ( buying sleep powder ) So it makes some sense at least. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by goemo
More clarification
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On 8/13/2021 at 4:37 PM, zethreal said:

 

It is not 3 hours offline for 1 hour of fatigue. It is 3 hours for 1 hour of fatigue. You regain it whether you are offline or online doing stuff. Every 3 hours you gain 1 hour of fatigue.

 

With the same basic thought in mind, I propose the full removal of sleeping for sleep bonus as I can't grind skills on sleep bonus forever without sleeping. So once I use my 5 hours of sleep bonus, I can't do anything in Wurm until I sleep in a bed for 5 full days. It actually gets worse if I buy the extra hour in the shop or get another extra hour from the journal. I may end up only being able to play 7 hours and then needing to take a full week off! 

imagine having such a brainlet level take and getting utterly dabbed on for multiple posts after

gg no re

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Remove it. I beg you. LET ME PLAY

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How do I know how much fatigue I have left until I get that message? I've never had anything like that, at least not yet. Is there a way to see how much you have?

 

 

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/fatigue is the command

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31 minutes ago, DannyUK said:

How do I know how much fatigue I have left until I get that message? I've never had anything like that, at least not yet. Is there a way to see how much you have?

 

 

 

Most people never get to see that message.

And I say, keep it in, it stops and detects macro users.  

I've had several people I know banned because of it and afterwards they did mention to me that they were using macro's to speed things up.

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Keep the fatigue.


  I know for a fact in all my years of playing I only ever got down to have 5 hours left one day and I was doing some serious stuff. 

I also know of multiple players that hit fatigue rates and boom are gone forever due to bot.

 

I think it is a good mechanic and ALL of the people I spend time with will never get near fatigue cap as they do varied thing and not spamming one skill action for umpteen hours.

 

Just my 2 copper

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Grinded JS and Papyrusmaking the last week and suddenly got a new "buff" icon, Fatigue warning as I was below 3 hours - I continued until about 30m left, went to bed and did not login the day after.

If you grind out stuff you can very easily hit it, also it is not a granted "bot detector".

And when I take vacation from work while being in a Wurm playing mood then this will be a lot more annoying for me than usual, because I play from getting up until going to bed.

 

The first time I ever hit fatigue it was due surface mining - back in the days the Wurm IRC channel was still somewhat used so I asked in there whats the deal with that and so on.

No 5 Minutes later a GM stopped by invisible and poped me one of the question boxes that disables your from doing anything.

 

Since then I have "hit" the fatigue cap multiple times but only in a soft way, like keep an eye on it and stop when I get to ~30 Minutes. (never been checked by GM since ever again either)

Usually I am not able to play the day after and just keep sleeping for SB to load up and continue on the day after again.

 

Now if a bad person has half a brain you know, do the 1+1 on your own.

Not to mention, they can just make an alt as has been stated before, fatigue system certainly does not keep anyone from cheating.

Also another big doubt on this reasoning - instead of letting the player hit a cap that disables gameplay and cover it with a lame "macro" excuse, they could just route the already logged information into a silent trigger with no player disabling feature added, the GMs would still get their trigger pingpong because the data is there, but don't keep people from playing or neuter the PLAY TIME we paid for.

 

But that all aside, as has been said before in this thread and I myself have argued about in a older thread a few years ago - we pay for 30 days but we only get a fraction of it as real play time.

Just because the casual players never hit the fatigue cap does not mean it is a good thing to keep around, people should be bothered that they are not getting what they paid for.

 

I would be very interested to see what Josh would have to say about this system if he had encountered it. ;)

 

I actually got in contact with a consumer rights lawyer back when I was strongly arguing against fatigue, he took a look and was like "well yes, this practice IS questionable specially because there is zero info about fatigue before people buy into this system - but with the "size" the game has no one would really care enough to take up a case unless the entire playerbase was gona throw a tantrum and by that point the game has other problems."

 

Honestly, since those many moons ago and the big arguments back then I have given up on fighting over it, but seeing the topic crawl up once again (it seems to happen every few years) it just made me feel terrible and now seeing people being like "yea keep it in its cool" who have no idea.... just stings.

If you are not affected by it, cool - more power to you, enjoy the game, but please do not trample on other people who enjoy the game just as much as you do but have more time on their hands because of reasons (ranging from disabilities that make people not go out or whatever).

 

Thanks for reading, I guess.

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3 minutes ago, Milkdrop said:

Also another big doubt on this reasoning - instead of letting the player hit a cap that disables gameplay and cover it with a lame "macro" excuse, they could just route the already logged information into a silent trigger with no player disabling feature added, the GMs would still get their trigger pingpong because the data is there, but don't keep people from playing or neuter the PLAY TIME we paid for.

 

I think this is more of a general interpretation, rather than the truth. I'd find it hard to believe no ones thought of making it silent before if it was a macro trigger lol 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I think this is more of a general interpretation, rather than the truth. I'd find it hard to believe no ones thought of making it silent before if it was a macro trigger lol 

Yea, I am just a tad annoyed that people keep kicking this around as a reason for it being in place - sometimes you need to spell things out for people to see the light I guess. ;)

 

I am sure the devs are smarter than me and did think of it, but why things are as they (still) are riddles me.

Artificially limiting people and reducing the play time we paid for is just wrong to me, I hate unfair things and this is the only grudge I have with Wurm - everything else I love big time.

Edited by Milkdrop
typo

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