Posted June 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Timoca said: Most people never get to see that message. And I say, keep it in, it stops and detects macro users. I've had several people I know banned because of it and afterwards they did mention to me that they were using macro's to speed things up. Personally I think it is a good thing, I do spend alot of hours in the game but obviously not enough to bring up the message as you say. I think it is a positive thing in the game to stop people playing way more than they should, it forces you to take a break whether you change games is upto the person but you must rest in Wurm for now. I know others will disagree and say "I pay money to play" but I guess the devs are trying to not make you over do it in the game. I would say you could give people the option to purchase something to take it away but that would defeat the object if they are trying to limit you playing far to long. I guess you won't please everyone though but I would say keep it in the game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, DannyUK said: I think it is a positive thing in the game to stop people playing way more than they should, Because we are all underage and still need someone to parent us. I have yet to see another MMO that does this in such a blatant way. I recall FF XIV 1.0 (before ARR) was limiting people in some ways as well, at least it is what I heard - back then I did not play it simply because of this odd limitations to lvling up. So far I have yet to see ONE resonable argument for fatigue being in place, one that can not be reasonably argumented against. But all the casual people of course want this system to stay in place, because oh lord the people who play more than them could pull ahead... news flash - they already did anyhow and with or without fatigue it wont make any difference to the casual players. The only difference is for those people who play a lot to be held back and get frustrated by the limit whenever it rears its head and the fact that I paid to play for a full month and am being held back from doing so just adds insult to injury. But apparently we have a lot of people who totally enjoy to pay for a full piece of chocolate and then just eat a third of that, the other two thirds just can go bad and be thrown away right... on the upside you wont gain weight then! *shakes head* Edited June 18, 2022 by Milkdrop 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 18, 2022 Oh I have no problem if someone is more advanced than me, I couldn't careless, I play for my own fun and enjoyment. I want it to stay in place because it can only be a good thing for your health. I don't know if this is why they implemented it, no idea but surely it can only be a good thing if the devs see it that way? Not wanting you to overdo things in the game and have rest from time to time. If they did take it out of the game I wouldn't be worried about it because it makes no difference to me, I still wouldn't reach that cap anyway even though I play alot of hours a day as it is. As I say I support it to stay but if they took it away that is upto the devs. I don't know how anyone can play games without getting rest at some stage, i'd be questioning whether it is having an effect on their body and wellbeing but it is not my place to tell people how much they play just observation. I suffer with anxiety myself and find this game helps me but I don't think I could stay on it without sleep and rest. I know the game is addictive but I don't think I would get to that stage of seeing the message of fatigue. That is what these forums are for though to debate these features so whether the devs take it away remains to be seen I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 18, 2022 There are plenty of games that have health warnings... Like pop-ups that say "You have been online for 1 hour/3 hours/6 hours/etc, be sure to take breaks!" The game isn't based in China / run by the CCP so having a restriction on gametime due to "health concerns" is overreaching and unprecedented -- I digress, because I have never heard that it's for health reasons before so I really don't believe the fatigue system is for health reasons anyway. I have heard that it's for anti-bot reasons, and as stated before... if that's true, it's a relatively useless measure against botting/macro-ing anyway. In fact, a pop-up window like "You have been online too long, be sure to take a break" that you must interact with (e.g. you must press "OK" button to continue playing) would be an equally in/effective way of combating botting without being as severe as the fatigue system seems to sometimes be. (This is all coming from someone who has never and likely will never hit the fatigue limit..) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 18, 2022 53 minutes ago, Lovelie said: I have heard that it's for anti-bot reasons, and as stated before... if that's true, it's a relatively useless measure against botting/macro-ing anyway. I agree. There are plenty of ways to get around it, like spamming fp2 alts to mindlessly dig or craft bricks I guess? The system kinda made sense for a few moments when coffee first came out, but now it's just one of those relics that do more harm than good. People who want to bot will find creative ways around this system. The rest of the players who have more time than others should be given what they are already paying for via subscription , aka : access to wurm's gameplay. I have never heard of a subscription based game that actually prevented you at any point or another to play the game. Except Wurm. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 18, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, elentari said: I agree. There are plenty of ways to get around it, like spamming fp2 alts to mindlessly dig or craft bricks I guess? The system kinda made sense for a few moments when coffee first came out, but now it's just one of those relics that do more harm than good. People who want to bot will find creative ways around this system. The rest of the players who have more time than others should be given what they are already paying for via subscription , aka : access to wurm's gameplay. I have never heard of a subscription based game that actually prevented you at any point or another to play the game. Except Wurm. Exactly this. In reality it does little to nothing to prevent or hinder those who macro. In the past, you'd maybe say "well actually it slows down the bulk makers until GM's can properly issue a ban" but now they just spin up an alt and start pumping them out again at 100% creation chance from 1 skill. Channeling is also one of the last few things left in the game you could loosely say is at risk of being macro'd but that doesn't use fatigue. Unless you're doing Wisdom of Vynora that is. And yes, I totally agree that the idea of Wurm nannying us is absolutely ridiculous. I don't want this game to tell me "hey go touch grass" lmao. We're adults, and if you're not an adult, you should be being properly supervised online if your parents are responsible. But there's more thing and this one is good! Don't think it fatigue is an issue? Clearly devs disagreed in some capacity because fatigue was DISABLED on NFI on launch. It got quickly reenabled because people abused the Wisdom of Vynora spell once they could priest. If nothing is going to be done short term, at least dignify the people who still think fatigue is an antimacro feature by making priest casting use fatigue. 4 hours ago, Lovelie said: In fact, a pop-up window like "You have been online too long, be sure to take a break" that you must interact with (e.g. you must press "OK" button to continue playing) would be an equally in/effective way of combating botting without being as severe as the fatigue system seems to sometimes be. This is actually already a thing! If you're suspected of botting or anything of the sort, a GM will make a dialogue box appear and if answered incorrectly, I believe it just instabans you. Edited June 18, 2022 by Madnath 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 12 hours ago, Archaed said: I think this is more of a general interpretation, rather than the truth. I'd find it hard to believe no ones thought of making it silent before if it was a macro trigger lol Just hear me out here, i know how crazy this is going to sound, but what if its a cover story, or better yet, a by-product of what the system is actually being used for that is being touted to keep the system in? i get it: the way the system currently is, it sucks for some players, and it some of you feel it limits gameplay. But it doesn't limit all actions, does it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 5 hours ago, Madnath said: This is actually already a thing! If you're suspected of botting or anything of the sort, a GM will make a dialogue box appear and if answered incorrectly, I believe it just instabans you. ya, ive seen this. ONCE. only way to trigger it is to be perfect with your grinding, single minded, and nearly 'robot' like yourself, However i don't think its an insta-ban thing. I would expect them to investigate correctly, regardless of the claims. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) People who macro often aren't players who've been around for many years, they're mostly less experienced players who find the game being to slow or whatever. The people that I know got banned didn't knew about fatigue or they thought they had programmed it so smartly that it looked like a real player, also not taking notice of how the fatigue system works. They're just players who know how to program and don't have the patience to play this game. So, the system works. But I don't know why this is a hard lockout and not a silent system. Ain't Rolf around anymore to tell us about the design behind this? All I can think of is that he and/or Notch found 8 hours plenty, and they wanted to automate it because they didn't have the time to go kick people manually due to it being a small game? Edited June 19, 2022 by Timoca Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Timoca said: People who macro often aren't players who've been around for many years, they're mostly less experienced players who find the game being to slow or whatever. There's 0 basis for this, unless you're saying you get leaked info from staff members leakier than a broken fridge. In comparision the banned macro users I know of were experienced players who simply used macros to make easy money or their tasks faster so they could do things unattended. 4 hours ago, Timoca said: So, the system works. If your fire escape ladder leads outside, but has a 25ft drop from where the ladder ends and the floor is, the ladder might work to get you out the building but say goodbye to your legs. This is a system that works, but it works badly. Fatigue is redundant because it has so many circumvention methods for people who bot things like build mats making and casting, the only people left it truly punishes is your standard player who might be doing more timer intensive actions. This is a system that only works loosely, but massively takes away your ability to play. Separate from my reply to Timoca, I've said it before and I'll say it again: just because something doesn't affect you, don't mean it's not an issue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Madnath said: There's 0 basis for this, unless you're saying you get leaked info from staff members leakier than a broken fridge. In comparision the banned macro users I know of were experienced players who simply used macros to make easy money or their tasks faster so they could do things unattended. If your fire escape ladder leads outside, but has a 25ft drop from where the ladder ends and the floor is, the ladder might work to get you out the building but say goodbye to your legs. This is a system that works, but it works badly. Fatigue is redundant because it has so many circumvention methods for people who bot things like build mats making and casting, the only people left it truly punishes is your standard player who might be doing more timer intensive actions. This is a system that only works loosely, but massively takes away your ability to play. Separate from my reply to Timoca, I've said it before and I'll say it again: just because something doesn't affect you, don't mean it's not an issue. "solid proof" cases unrelated to anything with the game and it's mechanics.. What else stops new players from pay-to-win boosting on coffee/sb(sp)/and hw macro? What's the general player opinion about p2w? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 Fatigue should be added to the forums Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Archaed said: Fatigue should be added to the forums they can start by limiting how often you can change avatars 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tpikol said: they can start by limiting how often you can change avatars YES! THIS!! PLEASE AND THANK YOU!!!! ONCE EVERY SIX MONTHS WOULD BE A HUGE HELP! I'm only half joking to be honest - if it happens on a bad day then im confused for days. Then, if it happens AGAIN, just after i figure out who is who, then im back down the same rabbit hole - only this time im thinking you intend to hurt me specifically...its annoying and painful for some of us. i totally understand its a thing you need, not saying you cant, but man there are days i wish you just didn't..... Edited June 19, 2022 by Tomatoes clarifcation Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
