Taking out Child from horse names

[MrKettle 121]

Word banks are great when you are making random names, you get cool things like Childrage but you also get mildly disturbing things like Childfantasy, so maybe we take out the word child from the word bank?

[Drayka 485]

Replace with the word "spawn"? In Wurm we spawn and respawn.

Even bred mobs truly spawn trait-offspring, not children.

[MrKettle 121]

16 hours ago, Drayka said:

Replace with the word "spawn"? In Wurm we spawn and respawn.

Even bred mobs truly spawn trait-offspring, not children.

Yeah that seems less creepy at least Spawnfantasy makes you think of comic books

[elentari 2,660]

They're just pixels in a game in the end. Childfantasy seems harmless to me. 

Let me put it this way, people with a dirty mind will find dirty associations between the most innocent of things, while regular people will unlikely make such associations in the first place. 

 

Reminds of the dolphins vase illustration by Sandro Del-Prete. 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/sandro-del-prete-dolphins-Reproduction/dp/B06Y54WL3V

 

Adults see 2 people, while kids tend to see dolphins in the image. 

[christopher 208]

lets take it out anyway 

[MordosKull 828]

10 minutes ago, elentari said:

Let me put it this way, people with a dirty mind will find dirty associations between the most innocent of things, while regular people will unlikely make such associations in the first place. 

 

Exactly.   

 

The horse name "Childfantasy" just sounds like a child's fantasy or childlike fantasy in my mind. Nothing bad. But then again, we are living in hyper sensitized times where people gasp and choke at the slightest things.

[MordosKull 828]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:11 AM, MrKettle said:

so maybe we take out the word child from the word bank?

Then what's next? You'll find another word in the name bank that eventually could make a questionable meaning. Go away with this suggestion please.

[Archaed 2,280]

This is a great lesson in empathy! 

 

One person is pointing out that it makes them uncomfortable, and I'm willing to bet it's not the first person, just the first time someone has spoken up. 

 

Now all of the "people are so sensitive!" responses here are not made uncomfortable by it, but you also don't have ANY reason to WANT to keep it in. 

 

Now you can gnash your teeth and complain about whatever, but having this removed has ZERO impact on you, but an impact on someone who is having a negative experience on it. 

 

Don't complain about people being sensitive, support a change that helps another player have a better experience because it doesn't impact you in the slightest. 

[Josso 156]

4 hours ago, Archaed said:

This is a great lesson in empathy! 

 

One person is pointing out that it makes them uncomfortable, and I'm willing to bet it's not the first person, just the first time someone has spoken up. 

 

Now all of the "people are so sensitive!" responses here are not made uncomfortable by it, but you also don't have ANY reason to WANT to keep it in. 

 

Now you can gnash your teeth and complain about whatever, but having this removed has ZERO impact on you, but an impact on someone who is having a negative experience on it. 

 

Don't complain about people being sensitive, support a change that helps another player have a better experience because it doesn't impact you in the slightest. 

Hear! Hear!

[MordosKull 828]

 

5 hours ago, Archaed said:

Don't complain about people being sensitive, support a change that helps another player have a better experience because it doesn't impact you in the slightest. 

 

I support all kinds of changes that improve player experience. They just never happen. I  also see you blowing down peoples' attempts at positive changes that wouldn't affect you archaed, so don't be a blazing hypocrite lol

 

This suggestion is ridiculous. Let's then force all kinds of players to change their names, ship names, cart names, oh and then there's shafts and all you can do with them, because one person found offense. Once the word police get started, there's no end. Let's not. Word-policing does affect me and the rest of us. But thanks for the impressive trot down virtue lane.

Edited July 27, 2021 by MordosKull

[SmeJack 5,806]

How dare you tell me i dont have any reason to want, i am waiting for my horse called manchild and this suggestion would ruin that for me.

[Katrat 2,296]

How about we just stop perverting the English language so that normal words stop taking on perverse meanings!

Edited July 27, 2021 by Katrat

[MordosKull 828]

2 minutes ago, Katrat said:

How about we just stop perverting the English language so that normal words stop taking on perverse meanings!

I agree!

[Archaed 2,280]

40 minutes ago, MordosKull said:

This suggestion is ridiculous. Let's then force all kinds of players to change their names, ship names, cart names, oh and then there's shafts and all you can do with them, because one person found offense. Once the word police get started, there's no end. Let's not. Word-policing does affect me and the rest of us. But thanks for the impressive trot down virtue lane.

House names, ship names, and item names do get changed. 

 

29 minutes ago, Katrat said:

How about we just stop perverting the English language so that normal words stop taking on perverse meanings!

Language evolves, asking to stop perverting the english language is a little late, unless you want to talk like this:

Foxas habbað holu and heofonan fuglas nest ("Foxes have holes and the birds of heaven nests")

 

For the record, it could be easily changed so that child and fantasty can't be matched as well. 

Edited July 27, 2021 by Archaed

[Drayka 485]

33 minutes ago, Katrat said:

How about we just stop perverting the English language so that normal words stop taking on perverse meanings!

So if anyone feels anything other than happy, joyful or utterly content, they should be censored for abusing the English language, because someone listening to them could end up feeling something other than happy, joyful or utterly content?

 

Do you want us to wear full-face masks at all times too, so that no-one can ever see another person cry, because that might negatively affect their qol?

Full body-suits that restrict movement, so that body-language can never communicate a negative emotion in any way?

At what point in this train of logic does it become a criminal act for a baby to wail because it's hungry, as someone could find that stressful?

 

Animals in Wurm aren't allowed to make noises of distress unless attacked, because that's criminally offensive. They may only vocalise with their dying breath as they starve to death.

That's more twisted than ANYTHING in RL, and yet that's considered PERFECTLY NORMAL and even desirable to many players.

 

So yeah, since there are rules about what we may name our avatars and boats, don't give a computer script more rights than a player to name things in a way that could be viewed as lacking empathy. It has to be more perfect than a player could or should be. And it should strive to be always be consistent to itself.

 

Wurm universe does NOT have children, and the playerbase has made it clear that breeding humans is not considered an acceptable mechanic. Even tower guards do not age. They are spawned aged and they die aged, though no non-dev knows for sure WHY they die when they are not attacked.

There are ONLY spawns and mob offspring. There are no children. All humans are spawned aged, die aged, and respawn aged. There should be no reference to something as alien as human children in Wurm, because there is no such thing in this reality, and will never be. Thus it is not Wurmian.

 

Unlike coffee, which will probably be added someday, when someone dreams up a way not to make its addition an anticlimax.

[Katrat 2,296]

10 minutes ago, Drayka said:

So if anyone feels anything other than happy, joyful or utterly content, they should be censored for abusing the English language, because someone listening to them could end up feeling something other than happy, joyful or utterly content?

 

Do you want us to wear full-face masks at all times too, so that no-one can ever see another person cry, because that might negatively affect their qol?

Full body-suits that restrict movement, so that body-language can never communicate a negative emotion in any way?

At what point in this train of logic does it become a criminal act for a baby to wail because it's hungry, as someone could find that stressful?

What??? You have clearly missed my meaning entirely. And FYI I'm not the one asking for censoring here! It's the OP who wants the harmless word "child" censored because adding it in relation to fantasy has made it perverse to them.

[Drayka 485]

9 minutes ago, Katrat said:

What??? You have clearly missed my meaning entirely. And FYI I'm not the one asking for censoring here! It's the OP who wants the harmless word "child" censored because adding it in relation to fantasy has made it perverse to them.

LOL, oh shock-horror! No one could possibly truly understand your meaning and disagree. That is inconceivable.

 

Someone is upset by something and says it shouldn't be allowed.

You get upset that someone is upset, say it's wrong to be upset by it, and that they shouldn't be allowed to say that something shouldn't be allowed.

 

That's escalation of the premise, not a counter-premise. If I do it back massively larger than life to demonstrate the effect, you are shocked at the result painting you in a bad light, but that's how escalation by mimicry works. To judge negatively those who judge negatively, makes you exactly like them, and now you enter an arms race over who can be most offended by people being offended.

 

I don't need to find it offensive that someone is offended. Nor do I need to share their premise that it is offensive.

 

If a wild animal is clearly thirsty, I don't need to be thirsty to justify giving it water. I only need to understand that it faces obstacles to dealing with its thirst, that - as disruptive as it is to my life to assist with - I am empowered and privileged to be able to do something about that. And if it does not include the denial of other animals the right not to die of thirst, it is straight-forward to justify doing so.

 

Anyone with access to deed-mayor privileges can additionally name any animal they can tame/dominate anything they like, within game rules. No-one can remove a default name from an animal except those with developer privileges. Thus the arguments are not equal. Someone who WANTS a particular name does NOT have equal rights to someone who wants to avoid a name.

 

No-one is proposing stopping anyone from nicknaming their horse "Manchild" or "Childfantasy" by deed privilege. We are debating whether a foal which has nothing to do with another player and their creative rights, is justified in being named by a script, something that could be considered traumatic to those who have experienced RL trauma, WHATEVER the details of that trauma, that MAY NOT include an RL criminal act. The death of, or trauma to, a child is a very loaded topic that affects many people.

 

And given that Wurm does not include any mechanic for human children, and is 99% certain to never include any mechanic for human children in the next couple of decades for reasons of community negative-feedback and game-mechanic inconsistency, I see no reason to KEEP this in the name pool now that someone has raised awareness, just because it doesn't hurt a handful of players that speak up to say it's not hurting them, and opine that it shouldn't conceivably hurt anyone else.

 

A BETTER way to do it, would be to allow players to individually exclude specific names from the naming pool, as with censor and phobia mechanics. But that takes more coding complexity than simply removing 1 word from a database.

[SmeJack 5,806]

My mayor is inactive 

[Drayka 485]

Fair comment, but "Manchild" is a derogatory term, and your desire to be mildly mischievous and get away with it, does not automatically outweigh the rights of a random stranger who has been affected by RL trauma. That's a creative privilege you pay for via upkeep and/or by attaining good relations with those you live with or near. It is never truly unavailable.

 

Take your animal to a neighbouring deed with an active mayor, have them brand it, rename it, unbrand it and return it. Animal retains the nickname.

Edited July 28, 2021 by Drayka

[SmeJack 5,806]

How do you know i havent also been affected by rl trauma and take a different view through surviving why is one persons feelings more valued than anothers. Why can we both not have an opion to be shared for the devs to consider without one of us being told our opinion is wrong. Manchild is only derogatory if you want it to be. There are many proud ones.

[Drayka 485]

I gave up on not offending people. My very existence is offensive to my species and I have accepted that simply being born was a criminal offense. I have been attacked because traumatised people cannot separate their trauma from whatever they feel about me triggers them. I accept that they are less in control of their lives than I am, and I try not to allow my sense of self be injured by their pain to the point where my qol is less than 0 - meaning that death would be preferable.

 

I never said that your opinion or that your aspirations were intrinsically wrong. I attempted to make clear that near-harmless aspirations can still be viewed as extremely toxic by other people. Such as continuing to breathe, for example.

 

I do strongly believe in trying to avoid triggering complete strangers into foreseeable trauma, whenever possible, in the same way that I believe in not giving a child a loaded gun and putting them in a crowded public place. And that includes a believable prop-gun loaded with blanks.

[MrKettle 121]

Look this was just a simple suggestion because seeing a horse named "Adolescent fat childfantasy" seems a little creepy, now if you think that's me "perversing the english language" then I would like you to explain how those particular string of words could be used in a healthy conversation one person would have with another.  On the flip side to come in and be insulting about my comment makes me really question the integrity of this community, I haven't said anything offensive or personally attacked anyone but seeing others do it is extremely disheartening.  It's very easy to just not say anything at all instead of attacking especially considering this, as mentioned before, has no negative impact on you whatsoever.  So thank you for the feedback and I really hope that a little more empathy and humility can be shown to people in the future.

[Drayka 485]

@MrKettlethank-you for your OP and raising awareness of this issue.

 

Please excuse me if I find it productive to explore the impact of censorship on humanity by encouraging a high-energy conversation about the philosophical implications of self-preservation and aspiration, versus self-sacrifice and privation, in my own, flawed way.

[Katrat 2,296]

15 minutes ago, MrKettle said:

Look this was just a simple suggestion because seeing a horse named "Adolescent fat childfantasy" seems a little creepy, now if you think that's me "perversing the english language" then I would like you to explain how those particular string of words could be used in a healthy conversation one person would have with another.  On the flip side to come in and be insulting about my comment makes me really question the integrity of this community, I haven't said anything offensive or personally attacked anyone but seeing others do it is extremely disheartening.  It's very easy to just not say anything at all instead of attacking especially considering this, as mentioned before, has no negative impact on you whatsoever.  So thank you for the feedback and I really hope that a little more empathy and humility can be shown to people in the future.

I'm sorry if my comments upset you. I apologize for any offense. They were never meant as an attack on you. I didn't say that you yourself perverted the language. Just that it has been perverted to the point that words with benign meanings have become offensive as they did to you. I personally see "Child Fantasy" as the imaginings of a child. Their dreams and imaginary places. Not as the negative meaning it has taken on.

[christopher 208]

i agreed the child name should be taken out ,     but

the new world has banned or scorned at everything that was my child hood .heaps of movies ,names of things and places ,everything ,hell in america u cant even have your war stuff remembered eg southern flags n stuff people died under , u have turned every thing in to no longer aloud because of this or that , when i grew up stuff was funny and life was good  , so no more funny its all offensive now,  whats really offensive is calling a animal feral for living in the wild as intended,and pretending said animal is ruining the land to kill it what crap a small damage compered to us we have destroyed everything we touch , we should be put down, ops ive been offensive