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Delone

Breeding is completly broken

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Under any explanation I have seen of the breeding system, this is clear proof that breeding is not working as intended:

 

Skl88sr.jpg

 

Regardless of which parent was chosen for breeding, it has not bred for that trait pool, and has not merely tied the pool on the offspring but swapped it completely to a different dominant category. Breeding with 75 AH, it has tossed out both of the 20 point draught traits on both parents and replaced them with low point value more common traits from output, and then added in 2 misc pool ones. Despite this, the offspring has less points than either of its parents, and only used 40 of my supposedly 75 available points.

 

This IMO is not merely not working as intended, it is utterly broken.

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yup, results can be weird to say the least. Also horse colors are much more unpredictable, i breed horses of same color and in 80% of cases i get some other color...

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Posted (edited)

Really sucks when you finally get a rare trait and its on a completely left field ugly yellow horse. I have several now from non yellow parents which makes it feel like some sadistic joke like hey you can have a rare trait but the trade off is a crap colour.

Edited by SmeJack

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Isn't it only the draft and speed categories that dominate each other?  The way I see it, the foal has the same dominant category as the parents, not a speed trait in sight.

 

If I understand it right, the Misc. and Output traits are just added by mostly random draws after the dominant traits have been fixed, so you can't really put any significance into having 2 Misc. traits or not.

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I though output is a dominate category?

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output and combat are both also dominants

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13 minutes ago, Ogare said:

I though output is a dominate category?

 

I wouldn't know about that one. But are people regularly birthing 4-output animals, like we can do with speed and draft horses? 

That should give the answer, if it acts dominant or not.

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Posted (edited)

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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)

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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Having two parents as dominate Draft doesn't 100% guarantee a child will be draft. It makes it strongly more likely to be so. I'd argue the system is doing what it was told to do ( I'm not saying it's working as intended since I have no idea what Wurm devs intend).  Wurm rolls the RNG dice and spit out results. Even in situation like above where it's unlikely that to shift from both parents being dominate draft to a child that is dominate output i suspect it could happen. It's just very unlikely to happen.

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Posted (edited)

--

waste of time was posted here.

Deleted

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Yserin said:

I got 1 in 5 animals that actually had the traits of the parents

1. individual traits common to parents do not have increase chance to pass to child (that was the old system). Only the dominate category has increase chance to inherit.

2. We also know that higher skill has reduced chance to add negative traits to the pool. This was in the first animal change tweek patch.

3. We don't know chance weighting for all the traits.

 

Are you saying, given parents who have a common dominate category, that something greater then 4 in 5 children from them have either no dominate category (all misc or negative) or have switched dominate category?

Edited by Ogare
reword the chance sentance

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Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2021 at 12:10 AM, Ogare said:

1. individual traits common to parents do not have increase chance to pass to child (that was the old system). Only the dominate category has increase chance to inherit.

2. We also know that higher skill has reduced chance to add negative traits to the pool. This was in the first animal change tweek patch.

3. We don't know chance weighting for all the traits.

 

Are you saying, given parents who have a common dominate category, that 1 in 5 children from them have either no dominate category (all misc or negative) or have switched dominate category?

yep thats my result. except for the negative bit. its always switch to misc or a dif dom category. usually output. my AH is 70. been fun yep.

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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21 minutes ago, Yserin said:

"greatly preferring to pass on its majority to its child." is def not working.

 

I'd still say it happens more often than not, but I admit I am not keeping count anymore.

 

Anyway, they are going to change the balancing again, so whatever is happening now will not be happening anymore. 

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Question... how do you get those windws?

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59 minutes ago, SirEvo said:

Question... how do you get those windws?

 

right click the animal and there is a menu option called inspect animal

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Ogare said:

1. individual traits common to parents do not have increase chance to pass to child (that was the old system). Only the dominate category has increase chance to inherit.

2. We also know that higher skill has reduced chance to add negative traits to the pool. This was in the first animal change tweek patch.

3. We don't know chance weighting for all the traits.

 

Are you saying, given parents who have a common dominate category, that something greater then 4 in 5 children from them have either no dominate category (all misc or negative) or have switched dominate category?

Agreed we do not know the chance weighting, but higher point cost traits are less likely to pass on:

"Traits have point values now which influence their chance to pass on and how many traits."

On a good 75% of offspring with parents having two 20 point traits one, if not both as shown above, will get lost. They have literally introduced a system that favors the loss of the very traits you are trying to breed for by making them more expensive/rarer, thus opening the way for another category to become dominant (Edit: or tied for dominant) as they contain multiple 5/10 point traits that commonly get rolled on.

 

19 hours ago, CistaCista said:

Isn't it only the draft and speed categories that dominate each other?  The way I see it, the foal has the same dominant category as the parents, not a speed trait in sight.

 

If I understand it right, the Misc. and Output traits are just added by mostly random draws after the dominant traits have been fixed, so you can't really put any significance into having 2 Misc. traits or not.

 

There are four categories that can be dominant: Speed, Draught, Combat and Output. The lower point values of (translate as higher weighted to get rolled on) some output, combat and misc is why you see these getting rolled onto almost every horse born, and rarely see speed on a draught horse or vice versa, they are not actually exlcusive, but their chance of being rolled on is slim due to the weighting against them. This is also why you don't see the higher point value combat and output traits getting rolled onto a speed or draught based horse, but do see a constant barrage of low point ones.

 

This by the way:

qA3Z2BO.jpg

Is both an expected result, and an example of a combat dominant being chosen. The female, Northflea, has been selected as the progenitor and she is a 3 way tie for dominant. Of the three choices, it selected combat and rolled based on that. Due to combat having several cheap point options (higher chance of not failing to roll on) you jump straight from a single combat trait to three.

Several of the other examples demonstrate again that higher point values are getting rolled off, and the low easy to obtain other point traits are causing the dominant pool to switch or become tied for dominance.

 

The new system is inherently biased against breeding for the very traits you want, whether by design, or through a misunderstanding of what they have actually done.

Edited by Delone
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I skilled AH for this.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/24/2021 at 5:52 PM, Delone said:

This by the way:

qA3Z2BO.jpg

Is both an expected result, and an example of a combat dominant being chosen. The female, Northflea, has been selected as the progenitor and she is a 3 way tie for dominant. Of the three choices, it selected combat and rolled based on that. Due to combat having several cheap point options (higher chance of not failing to roll on) you jump straight from a single combat trait to three.

Several of the other examples demonstrate again that higher point values are getting rolled off, and the low easy to obtain other point traits are causing the dominant pool to switch or become tied for dominance.

 

The new system is inherently biased against breeding for the very traits you want, whether by design, or through a misunderstanding of what they have actually done.

 

I listed this one largely as an example as the of the 1/3 chance to pick a trait category from the mother it still gave me the exact result I was resigned to. the dreaded combat. I really strongly believe aside from categories removing both parents from influence the traits was hands down the worst thing they could have done. but that is more in line with a suggestion then a bug. the results would be so much more consistent if they just made all traits worth 10 points.

 

the above is however an excellent example of how  I have got most of my 3-4speed draft and speed horses. almost always happen like this combat horse. usually from parents that have 2 speed and 2 draft or just one trait.  so it seems to pick one of the 2 categories but it needs to fill them in or something I have no idea anymore. I just know that all of my tied animals between speed and draft give me the best results.

 

most pairs the alliance have that are 3 or more traits roll then dom category off. maybe I am unlucky maybe the animals on in this alliance is bugged but the 1 damn lucky 4 draft stud I got I set up for the entire alliance to use which has 4 breeders. the results so far have been the offspring either roll the category off completely for something else or ends up tied even when the other parent is 2-3 draft traits to. I asked them to post here to.

 

visual representation

if both parents have 3 or better traits for a dom category like these draft i get:

 

Ra5VF0E.png

 

but tied trait parents give me:

5gMYcl8.png

 

L5PcSkc.png

7Ems58v.png

8vJO3WM.png

 

I have the various results in a spreedsheet thats been linked into dif places if people want to see the nonsense of how often I loose the dom category or loose up to 3 traits from the dom category of the parents.

 

the more traits in teh dom category the more likely I am to loose it completely.

 

friendly reminder the tied parents technically dont have a dominate category unless there is some wierd nonsense going on in the background.

 

every once in a while I do get good results from matched parents but its def the exception.

this being one of them.

Xd15yuT.png

 

I screenshot the new foals but I dont have them in my spreedsheet. I keep getting 100ql meat and hide off them so I ahve been farming the babies for that instead. results are much less frustrating when the point is to kill them.

 

Edited by Yserin

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Posted (edited)

waste of my time was posted here

Deleted

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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47 minutes ago, Yserin said:

the more traits in the dom category the more likely I am to loose it completely

 

 

Yes, I am seeing this as well.

 

The image I used in the reply was just to show an example of combat being chosen as the dominant trait, was not meaning to have a go at you at all, just illustrating that it is not just speed and draught that get chosen as the dominant trait to be rolled on.

 

Like you, I am seeing a better ratio of 3 and 4 draught foals coming from less pure parents, specifically NOT from parents that have the two 20 point traits, where if I do manage a 3 draught it is worse than its parents as it has rolled off a 20 point trait for the utterly useless gear trait.

 

The bulk of my speed breeding stock is still old 5 speeds (3 speed, 2 draught) and there I am seeing plenty of  4 speed trait foals, even if the extra speed trait is pretty much not worth having. As a result of this, I haven't really been breeding pure speed trait horses to see what the outcomes are, but now that I have thought about it, I will start putting a few together to see if the outcomes are as poor as they are when breeding pure draught horses together.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)

This is perfectly ok if pregnancy timer is 20-30min, with enough iterations - we'll eventually get to the jackpot foal.

--edit

at 90+ skill this is still completely random and ignoring any kind of logic.. had same case with draft+draft -> misc mix of traits and no drafts; 

speed for bisons is useless => i keep getting mostly or only speed bisons.. and wait for 1-2 weeks to get 1 of that..

Edited by Finnn

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