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Darnok

Darnok's creature suggestions

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1 minute ago, Archaed said:

What's the core gameplay loop here and what reward does it bring the player? 

 

Best read entire discussion... or this TL;DR post

 

 

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Just now, Darnok said:

 

Best read entire discussion... or this TL;DR post

 

 

I read it, and I still asked my question. 

 

What is the end goal from this? It adds extra layers of hassle and unnecessary complexity, it does not add depth, and the end result is you don't gain anything extra. 

 

Why would a player want to do your suggested route vs what currently happens? 

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8 minutes ago, Archaed said:

I read it, and I still asked my question. 

 

What is the end goal from this? It adds extra layers of hassle and unnecessary complexity, it does not add depth, and the end result is you don't gain anything extra. 

 

Why would a player want to do your suggested route vs what currently happens? 

 

This I explained in OP.

 

Depends on which player are you asking? About an advanced player who has been playing Cad for a year, average with small herd, or one who starts the game today.
The first group obviously has no reason to like my idea, because for them it would be a terrible, but for the other two groups it would be a level playing field and it would making it easier to find wild animals (horses, bisons).

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16 minutes ago, Darnok said:

but for the other two groups it would be a level playing field and it would making it easier to find wild animals (horses, bisons).

or you know, due to how breeding works and its extreme rng, people will stock up on more animals because they have a limited time to breed animals that are worth keeping through winter, then they hop on their fast horses and collect all the wild animals at the end of winter to begin again, now instead of there being some wild animals to collect that established breeders will ignore and leave for you you're now competing with every single other breeder to collect horses right at the start of spring.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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5 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

or you know, due to how breeding works and its extreme rng, people will stock up on more horses because they have a limited time to breed animals that are worth keeping through winter, then they hop on their fast horses and collect all the wild animals at the end of winter to begin again, now instead of there being some wild animals to collect that established breeders will ignore and leave for you you're now competing with every single other breeder to collect horses right at the start of spring.

 

Have you read OP? After all, there is also an idea how to get rid of randomness.

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1 minute ago, Darnok said:

 

Have you read OP? After all, there is also an idea how to get rid of randomness.

imma be real with you chief there is literally 0% chance they add that in after already riling everyone up with the current new system so i just ignore it

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

Another element is cold, if the hunger is so complex, you can add temperature and penned animals just die of the cold, around mid-winter, to give a chance to build a stable for players who will not know that the cold is deadly.

OR

best combination of both, the colder it gets the more food animal needs and even locked in stable it should require such amount of food it would not survive winter without additional feeding from player 🙂

 

 

 

I am posting a snippet from a comment of mine in another thread.
Darnok, you have played the game for one year. You are not an experienced nor advanced player, this snippet of text is aimed for players such as yourself that need more insight on why players respond to these threads.

 

Quoted from 

 

"We have a lot of veteran players stuck in their ways, but more than that, we have an educated veteran playerbase that DO know better because these 'new' suggestions and ideas are obvious concepts that have tried and failed previously, and upon attempting to educate the newer masses, receive the generic 'you're stuck in your ways' or 'you don't want change' response.

 

Wurms a very hard game to work with, its on an old system, its limitations are greater than its possibilities, and its balancing skilling, pve features and pvp features together on a fine balance. Vets want to see positive change, they do..but the positive change suggested on these forums just aren't it, fam. They just aren't possible or have been tried and failed. Both veterans and new players need to understand this."

 

This concept would be adding in layers of advanced, complex, or somewhat impossible mechanics that would require a total rebuild of current systems and change the balance of the gameplay drastically for both PvE and PvP players. Going as far as to wipe out herds of animals at such a quick pace, quicker than the current AND old AH system would have allowed you to replace them and breed them, the possibility of a temperature system that would change how the entire games played, how items work, having to somehow code in all of this stuff for a game that has little to no development and virtually no paid staff.

 

Your suggestions are suggestions, we understand, but please understand when the older, more experienced, more knowledgeable playerbase gives you feedback: You are asking for things that would break the game, require an impossible rework, or bring more bad aspects than good aspects, in a game that is still struggling to provide very basic Quality of Life updates.

Edited by Blazecraze
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47 minutes ago, Blazecraze said:

 

"We have a lot of veteran players stuck in their ways, but more than that, we have an educated veteran playerbase that DO know better because these 'new' suggestions and ideas are obvious concepts that have tried and failed previously, and upon attempting to educate the newer masses, receive the generic 'you're stuck in your ways' or 'you don't want change' response.

 

Educated veterans who have made game extremely unpleasant for the average and new player, and the whole teaching of the masses is that you tell new players how to play, because many solutions lack intuitiveness and playing in different way is in many cases not possible, there also is no exact information on many elements of the game, so the new player cannot plan character development or anything else in the game ahead.

 

The effect of this is that veterans won't play Wurm forever, and there are no new players, so the community will only shrink at this point, but the more experienced players don't see this as a problem, because they only look at their needs.

 

Quote

 

This concept would be adding in layers of advanced, complex, or somewhat impossible mechanics that would require a total rebuild of current systems and change the balance of the gameplay drastically for both PvE and PvP players. Going as far as to wipe out herds of animals at such a quick pace, quicker than the current AND old AH system would have allowed you to replace them and breed them, the possibility of a temperature system that would change how the entire games played, how items work, having to somehow code in all of this stuff for a game that has little to no development and virtually no paid staff.

 

I wrote many times how this is supposed to work, read everything from begining.
You could train your animals, so the randomness in inheriting traits would be reduced.
Winter would kill livestock with low temperature and hunger, but if you would feed them and lock in stable they would survive.

By adjusting the herd size to your time spend in the game, you wouldn't lose a single animal.
Players should value quality, not quantity of owned animals.

 

Quote

 

Your suggestions are suggestions, we understand, but please understand when the older, more experienced, more knowledgeable playerbase gives you feedback: You are asking for things that would break the game, require an impossible rework, or bring more bad aspects than good aspects, in a game that is still struggling to provide very basic Quality of Life updates.

 

More biased and focused on self interest too 😉

Of course, there are no quality of life updates, because systems that work badly are not improved in this way, they need to be completely changed.

 

In about 10 days since I returned to the game, I found: 0 wild horses, 0 wild bisons, 1 wild sheep, 20+ wild rams, cows and bulls.
How would a new or returning average player find such a game attractive and choose to pay a premium subscription for the next 2-3 years?

 

Edited by Darnok

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hard to believe that you haven't found at least 20 donkeys.. and few bisons around them, sheep are often common as well. Horses are rare spawns after the donkey plague of summer 2021, spawn slots are mostly wasted on donkeys, but at least now bisons spawn - so you're either not exploring enough or not doing it in non-populated areas, read a bit around forums.. you'll find that creatures evade players and climb on top of mountains... find a corner less visited by players etc.. just migrate to places with less to no player interaction, it's ai problem that needs some more work eventually. 

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

How would a new or returning average player find such a game attractive and choose to pay a premium subscription for the next 2-3 years?

 

Within 30 minutes of arriving in a Northern Starter Town - I had barely finished looking around the place and started exploring the immediate area - I was invited to join a village. I was regaled with warnings about what not to do, information about the game, the hopes and dreams of the mayor and his villagers for the future. It was a hell of a welcome-back to Wurm. 🙂

 

I came back for the parts of the game I missed - mostly the skybox; I really missed 'waking up' to Wurm's skyscapes - knowing none of the players I remembered would still be playing. I fully intended to live an utterly simple life, as an itinerant priest-main with no alts, but that plan had to change almost immediately. I stayed for the new people I met, and their desire to work together to build a life here, together. I certainly never expected to set foot on a PvP server, or do any fighting whatsoever, but plans change.

 

Now maybe I'm not a returning 'average' player, but I'm far more 'average' by Wurm standards than anywhere else. This is my HOME. THIS, is where I belong. These are my lands, my people, my community. I own it all, and I own nearly nothing. These lands have shaped me more than I shaped them. This community has made me grow as a person, more than my account stats could ever reflect.

 

For many of us, Wurm isn't a game, it's a life choice. And you either become addicted to this game, or you quit. It has always been this way.

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5 hours ago, Darnok said:

In about 10 days since I returned to the game, I found: 0 wild horses, 0 wild bisons, 1 wild sheep, 20+ wild rams, cows and bulls.

I have been back for 3 or so weeks, and only gone off deed 3 or four times and have see plenty of mobs of all kinds in the wild, except deer, crocs and gorillas.  Every time.

 

Maybe you are just doing it wrong.  😉

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26 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I have been back for 3 or so weeks, and only gone off deed 3 or four times and have see plenty of mobs of all kinds in the wild, except deer, crocs and gorillas.  Every time.

 

Maybe you are just doing it wrong.  😉

 

On Cad? There are deers and crocs in here and all other mobs too, just not horses, bisons or sheeps 🙂

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24 minutes ago, Darnok said:

On Cad? There are deers and crocs in here and all other mobs too, just not horses, bisons or sheeps 🙂

I logged into my alt on Melody. Left the spawn and headed north and found some horses after not even 5 minutes of looking. Not only that but found some other passive creatures as well. The last month I have spent time on Release, Exodus, Pristine, Independence and Xanadu on SFI and have found a ton of wild animals. Both passive and hostile creatures. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places. 

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I've been able to collect horses and donkeys, and experiment with animal handling. On Cadence. Recently.

 

Your premise is faulty.

 

There's no need for the changes you propose.

And nobody likes them.

Edited by Sheffie

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4 hours ago, Sheffie said:

And nobody (here) likes them.

 

I'd just like to point out that being discontent with the state of RL, does not mean that the alternative activity is at fault.

 

There are many - sometimes literal - punchbag activities out there, that are made available to the paying community, with consuming this displaced negative energy in mind.

 

This is why there are so many games out there that are human violence-centric, or lethal-environment based. And yes, they have huge populations.

 

I NEVER play them. I'm not generically, sustainably frustrated enough to find them attractive. They take far, far too much energy to play. Destructively speaking, I'm a very low-energy player.

 

It is not fair to walk into a game with a sustainable if-low population of players, and suggest changes that would require the entire game to be rewritten, restaffed and refinanced, and the entire current community to be evicted or to evict themselves, to make way for one person's vision of the perfect version of the game.

 

THAT is the premise for designing a new game from scratch.

 

Which very occasionally I idly do, when I get temporarily frustrated with the limitations of this game. Everything I can't get community approval for in this game, because it wouldn't fit here, goes into my private development folder. It will probably never get off the drawing-board as an indie game, but it gives me a way to burn off that energy in a creative way that isn't negatively impacting other players.

 

Thus, I have no use for commercially-available punchbag-games in my life.

 

With the exception of playing one game which is the ONLY one in its genre, for a couple of days, maybe once every year or so, I don't play other games. Occasionally I try others. I tend to never replay them. Does that mean that they should be removed from the market, or recoded with attracting me to play them in mind? No. Nor do I write negative reviews for them, unless they are literally unplayable or falsely advertised - won't load, parts of the code utterly corrupted, gambling malware, etc.

 

If Wurm included what that game I play once a year included, I'd never play that other game again. But even I only play it once a year. I wouldn't want it to be a mandatory part of everyone's daily Wurm life.

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On 7/30/2021 at 4:57 PM, brattygirl said:

I logged into my alt on Melody. Left the spawn and headed north and found some horses after not even 5 minutes of looking. Not only that but found some other passive creatures as well. The last month I have spent time on Release, Exodus, Pristine, Independence and Xanadu on SFI and have found a ton of wild animals. Both passive and hostile creatures. Maybe you just aren't looking in the right places. 

 

I care about the map I'm playing on.

On Mel I saw various things, for example champions running next to deeds near starter city, nobody seems to play there anymore, so it will probably be a good place to hunt soon.

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10 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I care about the map I'm playing on.

These suggestions you keep making would effect every single server. Not just the one you play on. But to play your game I decided to check out Cadence.

 

[13:14:52] You step through the portal. Will you ever return?

[13:14:53] You enter Sonata.

 

I headed west from the token following the road. Saw some deeds with horses (no were near 100). Saw a sign for free animals. Was going to check that out and find the easy way to find animals but decided to keep looking. Then blammo I found it.

[13:21:05] Horses like this one have many uses.

 

Sadly I didn't have a rope to lead it. But there was a horse. Also found a few other animals here and there. Next I went to check the other starter deed. (had to /suicide to get there)

 

[13:22:32] You enter Encore.

 

Immediately I found a few hens and roosters walking next to the town.

[13:24:58] Horses like this one have many uses.

 

It was even quicker to find a horse from Encore. Now I will have to say that it was quite barren near spawn. But it was easy to find after a little bit of searching. So now the thing here is what will happen if something like this would be implemented? You would take a problem from one server and make a new problem for all the servers. How would this benefit the wurm community? How would this bring more players to the game? How would this make the players that are here stay on the game? 

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1 hour ago, brattygirl said:

How would this benefit the wurm community? How would this bring more players to the game? How would this make the players that are here stay on the game? 

 

If you take the perspective that players who are stronger than your account (veterans) are pure competition and universally hostile to you (because they react badly to your attitude perhaps), it is not unreasonable to assume that getting rid of them all would result in a better game for you, and everyone like you who would come after you.

 

This COMPLETELY ignores the premise that after your own account becomes viewed as a veteran account, YOU will be viewed as the problem than should be got-rid-of. I believe this EXACT flawed logic premise was explored quite thoroughly in the 1976 film Logan's Run. Perfect-world promises and all.

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11 hours ago, brattygirl said:

So now the thing here is what will happen if something like this would be implemented? You would take a problem from one server and make a new problem for all the servers. How would this benefit the wurm community? How would this bring more players to the game? How would this make the players that are here stay on the game? 

 

The problem exists on every server, in my opinion proportion of wild-owned by players horses and bisons should be 50-50, now it's closer to 5-95.

The Wurm community has recently been complaining about new AH system being too random, so when you add training capability, that gives you a better chance of deciding what trat to inherit from a trained animal, it should help.

Winter will limit players ability to collect huge numbers of animals. Everyone will have as much as they can keep in stable and feed (there are many architecture enthusiasts and they create amazing buildings, so I hope that we will see many ingenious designs of the stable).

The more useful and non-aggressive NPCs, the better the impression for beginner players who will see that the world of Wurm is not empty while wandering and the better the impression, the greater the chance that they will stay longer.

 

At moment, summer is more dangerous than winter, because crocodiles or anacondas can hide in grass, and in winter everything can be seen from a long distance, so something should change to make the situation a little more even. In many games, winter survival is a problem, because players have to get rid of animals to feed their characters (e.g. rimworld), I think that here you can also add an element that will make player have to think about whether they have enough food, not for himself but only for his animals.

 

 

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9 hours ago, Drayka said:

 

If you take the perspective that players who are stronger than your account (veterans) are pure competition and universally hostile to you (because they react badly to your attitude perhaps), it is not unreasonable to assume that getting rid of them all would result in a better game for you, and everyone like you who would come after you.

 

This COMPLETELY ignores the premise that after your own account becomes viewed as a veteran account, YOU will be viewed as the problem than should be got-rid-of. I believe this EXACT flawed logic premise was explored quite thoroughly in the 1976 film Logan's Run. Perfect-world promises and all.

 

It's about balancing mechanisms and attracting players, not getting rid of them. Unfortunately, every game is a zero-sum game and while balancing mechanisms you have to take something away from privileged groups.

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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

The problem exists on every server

4b03290d822134493180676725e8bf28.png (99 of those were hell horses so 364 horses)

8b054536a3148c42a1af20c20024e2d0.png

e977ecfa3baa870b5b89caefa8c17435.png

comparison to wolf, a mob that isn't effected by animal collectors, is about 1:2.3 with horses, and i kill everything that i see. donkey and horse spawns are about 1:1, but from what i can tell donkeys take up what used to be spawn slots for horses so the donkeys being added made finding actual horses slightly harder

 

can't say i agree with you there if i can find hundreds of them to kill in two day according to my logs. maybe they should put a warning when you try to spawn on cadence similar to the harmony is already full message from the past *WARNING there's no horses on this server you should try another server* if the situation is so dire according to you

Edited by Oblivionnreaver

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3 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

4b03290d822134493180676725e8bf28.png (99 of those were hell horses so 364 horses)

8b054536a3148c42a1af20c20024e2d0.png

e977ecfa3baa870b5b89caefa8c17435.png

comparison to wolf, a mob that isn't effected by animal collectors, is about 1:2.3 with horses, and i kill everything that i see. donkey and horse spawns are about 1:1, but from what i can tell donkeys take up what used to be spawn slots for horses so the donkeys being added made finding actual horses slightly harder

 

can't say i agree with you there if i can find hundreds of them to kill in two day according to my logs. maybe they should put a warning when you try to spawn on cadence similar to the harmony is already full message from the past *WARNING there's no horses on this server you should try another server* if the situation is so dire according to you

 

Celebration server? According to stats 7/800 players right now. I believe that on maps where 7 players are active it is possible, but Cad usually has 60+ characters (I don't know how many of them are unique players and at this moment it is 90 characters) so things are a bit worse here.

 

http://www.wurmonline.com/status-new/

 

Edited by Darnok

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17 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Celebration server? According to stats 7/800 players right now. I believe that on maps where 7 players are active it is possible, but Cad usually has 60+ characters (I don't know how many of them are unique players and at this moment it is 90 characters) so things are a bit worse here.

 

http://www.wurmonline.com/status-new/

 

not on cele no, but glad we've established it's not a problem on every server :)

 

what are your thoughts on the no wild horses warning in the tutorial i suggested, maybe if people were directed towards harmony and melody it'd fix spawns and make all the servers lively

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8 hours ago, Darnok said:

The problem exists on every server

But I just gave you evidence that it does not? You went from saying "I care about the server I am playing on" (which is cadence) to now the problem exists on every server. Make up your mind. 

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I can confirm that there is no shortage of wild horses (and donkey) and sheep on Xanadu either. Discussions with Darnok are completely worthless. He trolls, brags, and lies.

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