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Darnok

Darnok's gameplay and UX suggestions

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5 hours ago, Drayka said:

When you stop acting like an evangelist at my door disrespecting my beliefs because you don't share them, I'll go back to respecting yours by not hanging evangelist intimidators in my porch. You think this game is so . you won't play Online and make a point of telling everyone so, over and over. I, however, think this game is worth my entire disposable income. You threw away the respect you were given for free as worthless to you, and now you call me critical? Certainly not compared to yourself.

 

If you are not the creator of Wurm, please explain to me how writing a general suggestion on the game forum is equal to knocking on your door? From what I can see, you have managed to criticize every of my ideas, so I can say that you came to my door and you are trying to tell me that I am not allowed to do something. Specifically, in your opinion, I am not allowed to make ideas and opinions that are inconsistent with your opinions.

 

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It's OUR aspiration as Suggestors - our meta established through hard-earned experience - to aspire to accurately guess the reasonable limits, not only of the Wurm engine, but the socio-tolerance of our readership which include the Development Team. And just because the forum mods do not strictly enforce the posting rules to-the-letter, does not mean any of us get to disregard the reason they exist in the first place with absolute and indefinite impunity. The best way to be respected by others, is to be respectful of others yourself. It's a learning curve, and if you do not consider it your moral obligation at the very least, then your attitude will continue to be interpreted as by the users - who are entitled to their opinion, especially when it's an opinion shared collectively by a large body of users - as trolling. That's a core principle of sapient social group dynamics.

 

This is your opinion, in my opinion I am an ordinary consumer who liked the product partially and who is making suggestions about how the part that I think is not very attractive should be changed. I describe what I don't like and how I think it can be improved, if the Devs think my ideas are stupid they will just ignore them. I don't understand what your comments and criticism are for? I need to ask your permission to make a suggestion? Or my suggestions have to fit your playstyle?

 

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When Wurm was first created, there wasn't even gravity. There's a semi-famous quote from the earliest days of Wurm, of Rolf inspecting a bit of terraforming that had been created for his inspection, and saying that if they were to turn gravity on, this example would kill players. Moving a camera/avatar around at a height relative to a deformed plane called a terrain wireframe, is not the same as those avatars having the ability to slide down extreme slopes, taking simulated falling damage along the way. Wurm does not use a prepackaged game engine; they coded their own from scratch. There's no inbuilt functionality to switch on by calling an industry-standard function. There is no collision code for mobs. Not animals, not players, not vehicles. There is very-buggy collision code for static structures that can only exist on tile-borders (walls, fences, cave walls) and 1/9 points on a tile (tree trunks). There are ongoing issues concerning where the client thinks the camera is, and where the server thinks the 'avatar' is. Enabling real-time collisions between mobs is not a reasonable aspiration at this time.

 

I don't care what Wurm was like 10 years ago, because I didn't play it then, apparently it wasn't worth my attention at that time, because some friend invited me to Wurm and he showed me some basic things, but I decided that it is not for me back then.

 

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What is your basis for implying that scorpions do not already do more damage to players without shields?

 

I am suggesting they should do more, I didn't said they do equal amount of damage to players with and without shields 😉

 

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You are suggesting that aggro mobs should target not only the players, but all animals hitched to vehicles at the same time. Even ignoring that this is not how mob combat does or reasonably can work in the foreseeable future, your suggestion - whyever you suggested it - would affect new players massively, whilst barely affecting the gameplay of comfortably established accounts. And I am pointing out that you have overlooked the collateral damage of making the beginning-game MUCH harder, when we have more than enough problems retaining new players in the first place.

 

Hopefully these changes would affect a lot of players and to a large extent, it's a waste of time proposing changes that don't improve anything.

 

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Your entire premise for starting to post in this forum whilst not playing the game yourself, as I understand it, was because - you said - Wurm Online was not doing enough to attract new players to the game. I'm pointing out that you are making lots of suggestions - not just this one - that would decrease Wurm Online's popularity with new players, by tanking this game's playability for those who have never played it before.

 

You _ don't _ understand _ what _ this _ has _ to _ do _ with _ them _ ??

 

If you aren't thinking about the potential, unintentional consequences to new players, every, single time you post a suggestion, then you are undermining the only reason I am prepared to give you the time of day on this forum.

 

I am writing the truth about what elements Wurm has and which it still lacks. After the start of Melody, when I started playing, I wrote that there are no buttons for special moves and from my point of view, for players who come to Wurm, such a thing is unacceptable. How do you want to fix anything if nobody is going to write about it?

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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3 hours ago, elentari said:

 

Agreed to an extent, it would make the game, pvp especially more interesting, by encouraging shield wall type formations and other tactics. 

Between players, yes. Between vehicles? No, not unless we had jumping mechanics. Otherwise what's stopping a freedom griefer surrounding your deed with locked carts so you can't get out? Too many possibilities for abuse. But player collision would be fun. 

 

A simple solution, the owner of the deed can push the vehicle off the deed and the perimeter, but in order not to overdo it, the vehicle can move a maximum of 4 tiles for 12 hours. 4 tiles are enough to unlock every gate.
Or even simpler, you can destroy every vehicle that is on your deed or perimeter.

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

 

We use em for obvious purpose such as hunting since we can't carry 500 kg of hides to our deeds on 1 horse, or 1000 kg of meat. Other uses include = bringing a cart to a rift with supplies for people : cotton, food, water, tents, etc. 

 

Other than that, it's not GTA and due to the hap hazard nature of...well nature and trees, your suggestion would ruin carts/ wagons in 24 hours. It would make navigation a nightmare and just add frustration. Many people still aren't a fan of tree collision anyway. Some of us (moi included) miss the old days of no-tree collision. 

 

You all look at the problem like a few years old child, only paying attention to the sentence I wrote and ignoring everything else.
On the other hand, shipping by ships would benefit from this? I hunt using horse and I can fit everything I need from a given hunt, but if someone wants to kill several hundred animals in one trip, it's no wonder that the maps are empty and most players do not see the point of playing, because there is nothing for them to do.

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

 

Wurm has collision detection issues also due to the lag between your client and the server. Sometimes the client can freeze for a second and your char gets a desync message. Lancing in pvp would be an interesting tactic, but not sure we have the tools to support such a suggestion. 

 

I leave solving technical problems to specialists, I am a consumer who suggests what would be interesting for him.

 

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

No, not a good idea. Many wurmians care a lot for their mounts and make a lot of effort to keep their prized horses alive for years. We don't usually hunt using HH or tamed unicorns for that very reason. Too easy to lose your horse to a troll or a couple of hell hounds. 

 

Well, that's why this idea came to me. The fact that people here have their pixels, which are indestructible in the form of items, and also animals that don't die in PvE, is a bit pointless. It's full of deeds stuffed with horses, hell horses and other animals, so why should horses and vehicles be indestructible? Simply raising an animal with good stats should be a little easier and that's it. In addition, traits combat would be important, they could even be developed, and animals would need barding.
Where do you see the minus here?

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

Trolls are quite possibly the most annoying enemy in the game already due to their prevalence, damage they do on armor and insanely fast regeneration ability. Adding more virtues to them would make them a bit too deadly to new people, unless we reduced the troll population and increased FS gained from killing them. Still, would be pretty easy to archer for vets. Minus one for this one, unless their pop was reduced to make up for increased deadliness. 

 

Not sure if OP is trolling or not, but the only thing that really caught my eye was the player collision idea. 

 

If the trolls had 90 FS then I'd agree with you. The game lacks normal NPCs above 60 FS, if adding new ones is a bad idea, you have to add the difficulty level to the current NPCs.

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It's interesting how each of the critics stuck to the idea of reducing tunnels 🤣

What about ideas for additional player actions, or additional tools or materials required to upgrade high ql items?

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I am writing the truth about what elements Wurm has and which it still lacks. After the start of Melody, when I started playing, I wrote that there are no buttons for special moves and from my point of view, for players who come to Wurm, such a thing is unacceptable. How do you want to fix anything if nobody is going to write about it?

 

Oh I want you to write about it. If I didn't want you to write about it, I wouldn't be posting content on your topics. I'm not trying to shut you up.

 

But all interactions are a massive learning curve, and you are, like all of us, making mistakes and hopefully learning from them. If everyone ignores you, that's worse than people having a different opinion from you. A strong difference of opinion is something both parties can really get their teeth into and tussle over until both start to budge a little, and find some common ground, and start to make progress towards a solution.

 

I'm more brains than brawn, but I recognise that same principle in a couple of bar brawlers that size each other up, have a scrap, and end up getting drunk together at the beginning of a friendship that lasts for years.

 

Yeah, I've criticised every one of your ideas. Did it ever occur to you that might be because I thought you have real value to offer this community, and I want you more emotionally invested in writing posts, and be challenged to write ever-better posts?

 

Right now, your ideas are mostly ill-fitting inspirations from other games you have seen. And you're not yet fully familiar with Wurm mechanics, its history, or its playerbase. I started out like that. I remember what it was like. And every reply I got, got me more and more invested in understanding Wurm better, so that I could understand why my ideas were being downvoted and passed over.

 

You walked into this forum acting as if you had the right to tell the entire playerbase where they could shove their opinions, and their investment in this game. And I pushed back alongside them. Pushed back for equal respect, because you weren't de-escalating from your frontal attack.

 

If you'd come in like a mouse, cowering and cringing and apologising for so much as having an opinion, I would have overpraised even the most absurd suggestion as having priceless value.

 

EVERYONE'S early suggestions are daft, unworkable and overidealized. That's to be taken as read and is beside the point. Becoming accepted by a group as one-of-them, is what happens behind that smokescreen of walls of text and 'fantastic ideas'. It's called getting-to-know-you. And if that takes butting heads, that's what it takes. Because fighting for what you believe in, is not wrong.

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27 minutes ago, Darnok said:

It's interesting how each of the critics stuck to the idea of reducing tunnels 🤣

What about ideas for additional player actions, or additional tools or materials required to upgrade high ql items?

 

FYI, TL;DR = too long, didn't read.

 

Your opening sentences are crucial, because they are all that some people will read. However, they will comment on comments, because that's more like an ongoing conversation.

 

Walls-of-text (as I found out years ago) are not something most people will read. You have to be GOOD at engaging you audience, not just voluable in having a lot to say, to get people to engage with a long post. Or a long speech.

 

It's engaging for you, because you wrote it. There's passion behind it for you. Nothing jars the flow of one sentence to the next, because that's how it is in your head.

 

Whereas for some others, they will only be able to concentrate as far into the opening post, as they are agreeing with what you are saying. Public speakers have to be aware of losing their audience because nothing they say after that (without allowing anyone else chance to speak) will be remembered.

 

Basically, don't start with a bombshell, and then change the topic. Not many people will care about the rest of the post, because you made something else more important by talking about it first. A thing that, if approved of, would wreck their gameplay, therefore that becomes the threat they respond to.

 

Also, there are posts that have addressed the rest of the content, though its taken me several rereads to spot the ones I remembered reading at the time. It's heavy work trying to address everything you are trying to talk about all-at-once.

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

It's interesting how each of the critics stuck to the idea of reducing tunnels 🤣

What about ideas for additional player actions, or additional tools or materials required to upgrade high ql items?

 

That's why you're better of limiting threads to 1 suggestion or so each, that way all the others don't get completely snowed under when there's an absolutely terrible suggestion in your large list ;)

 

As for mining your mining/tunnel suggestion, sounds like a great way to make some deathtraps actually lethal. Griefers are sure to love it, so let's not.

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We have titles that gives a little, but if you convert them into a profession that the player can choose and change only once per month, then a fairly large bonus could be given to each title/profession.
Of course we would need 1 profession/title = 1 skill 🙂

And for killing champions (my old idea, that for killing a troll champion players should be awarded with title trollslayer) and unique there should be additional titles/professions that would contain more than 1 skill.

 

For free accounts:

A character from a free account can set 2 titles/professions, which ensure that the skills connected to profession/title can exceed level 20. Additionally, if the character has a deed, he can also set 2 additional professions on it, giving him the same bonus. So in total free account would allow you to level 4 skills to a value of 100. If a player changes a profession after a month, the related skill is automatically capped at level 20 and new skill can be increased over 20.

Of course, the idea would make sense if the free account would not limit character characteristics.
 

For premium:

A similar rule with deed also gives you additional 2 professions. But the premium account bonus for titles/professions would be faster action timers.

 

In both cases, for a deed with upkeep 1s, the player receives 2 additional titles/professions,
for deed with upkeep is 1-2s player receives 3 titles/professions,
for deed with upkeep 2-3s - 4 professions,

etc.

 

If anyone wants to ask, but what about players who do not have their own deeds, please hold back, because this is another suggestion that I have not finalized yet, but you will certainly have something larger to criticize 😄

 

Edited by Darnok

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Thanks for the wonderful illustration of the principle, Madnath. After 3 minutes I clicked on the video to see how much longer I would have to endure it. I could NOT play Wurm like this. Not even a much watered-down version of it.

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A perpetual free trial at 20 skill cap is the model Wurm has chosen. And as much as I don't personally appreciate the restriction - as I was bouncing off the ceiling of stat gain before I earnt my first 10 silver for premium (and never bothered trying to earn money in Wurm ever again) - I understand why they do it that way.

 

I DO wish that Wurm would bank at least stat gain, even if a player cannot use those stats until they become premium. Perhaps only as a mechanic for never-premiumed accounts to offset the risk that they can be perma deleted at any time.

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Can you just go play any other mmo, because clearly this isn't the kind of game you're looking for

 

Wurm is meant to have no form of classes, jobs, professions. Faster action timers are achievable already, by just playing the game. 

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A core tenet of Wurm is that it is free of character classes (or almost so),  While professions are different to classes, in Wurm they operate kind of like they do in the real word.  Find something that interests you, or a niche you think you could fill; get good at it through practice and experience.  

 

Example:  I have no interest in mining or charcoal burning, so my skills in those areas remain pitifully low.  My carpentry has almost accidentally risen to mediocre.  My shipbuilding, however, climbed very rapidly because I enjoyed the process of making my own ships - not a profession but at least an avocation.  Likewise my FS seems to have done fine, not because I am a fighter but because I am an explorer.  My "profession" would be explorer/salvager, with some mountain climbing on the side (pun intended).  My repair skill grows apace, but sadly there is no direct in-game reward for exploration.  I recover stuff, then repair, improve and/or recycle it and wind up giving away most of it, maybe selling a few bits and bobs.   am also a part-time camping supplies maker.  That is all just what I choose to do; I don't see a need to label it with some in-game selection to access buffs.  The "buffs" come as skill and experience at what I do (which are both better than a buff).

 

I do like the idea of players being able to find a profession, but I also think that already happens just fine.  

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@Darnok, when you say, "convert [a title] into a profession," do you mean an actual in-game mechanic of selecting a title and making it a profession, or do you mean "replace the title mechanic with a profession mechanic"?

Edited by TheTrickster

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This looks like a massive improvement in suggestion quality to me.

 

The opening post is merely an suggestion for a vastly overpowered Titles functionality, not the instigation of character classes (which would be inappropriate for Wurm).

 

It contains references to benefits to new accounts, an admission that the suggestion does not necessarily work given the existing limitations, it's not trying to talk about too much too soon.

 

Good work @Darnok👍

Edited by Drayka
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10 hours ago, Jore said:

Can you just go play any other mmo, because clearly this isn't the kind of game you're looking for

 

Wurm is meant to have no form of classes, jobs, professions. Faster action timers are achievable already, by just playing the game. 

 

You are staring at the progress bar 90% of the time in the game and do nothing more, it's not playing, it's waiting.

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8 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

A core tenet of Wurm is that it is free of character classes (or almost so),  While professions are different to classes, in Wurm they operate kind of like they do in the real word.  Find something that interests you, or a niche you think you could fill; get good at it through practice and experience.  

 

Example:  I have no interest in mining or charcoal burning, so my skills in those areas remain pitifully low.  My carpentry has almost accidentally risen to mediocre.  My shipbuilding, however, climbed very rapidly because I enjoyed the process of making my own ships - not a profession but at least an avocation.  Likewise my FS seems to have done fine, not because I am a fighter but because I am an explorer.  My "profession" would be explorer/salvager, with some mountain climbing on the side (pun intended).  My repair skill grows apace, but sadly there is no direct in-game reward for exploration.  I recover stuff, then repair, improve and/or recycle it and wind up giving away most of it, maybe selling a few bits and bobs.   am also a part-time camping supplies maker.  That is all just what I choose to do; I don't see a need to label it with some in-game selection to access buffs.  The "buffs" come as skill and experience at what I do (which are both better than a buff).

 

I do like the idea of players being able to find a profession, but I also think that already happens just fine.  

 

There is no profession in the game and with the current skills it is rather impossible to design a tree that could be assigned to a given profession, because many skills would have to be shared.

The player just gets a list of statistics that can be increased by a small fraction in a dozen or so seconds, there is no plan or reflection on how this system could be developed further. You might as well prepare a list of skills in excel or a text file and install a program that will increase the random "skill" by 0.001 each time you press a button on the keyboard, displaying a progress bar, but will you call something like that playing? Later, surprise that the game community is shrinking.

"Gameplay is the specific way in which players interact with a game" - waiting for the progress bar to finish is not by definition a gameplay, it is waiting. And I don't like this part of Wurm the most.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameplay

 

 

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6 hours ago, TheTrickster said:

@Darnok, when you say, "convert [a title] into a profession," do you mean an actual in-game mechanic of selecting a title and making it a profession, or do you mean "replace the title mechanic with a profession mechanic"?

 

At the beginning, I thought that the player should choose professions as he chooses religions, but the change can be made once a month. And for each profession there would be assigned a few skills or skill tree that the player would develop faster and actions of this skills would take less time, but looking at the skill list I couldn't find any reasonable solution how to assign them to the professions.

The only option seems to be assigning 1 title = 1 skill. It does not matter whether you call them titles or professions, what counts is the function that is supposed to reduce the repetition of the action and shorten the waiting time for the effect of the action.

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Okay, so you are proposing a whole mechanic.  Got it.

 

16 minutes ago, Darnok said:

There is no profession in the game

 

I would completely disagree with this.   There is only one Wurm-defined and named profession, "priest".   However, there are many actual professions being practiced in game, despite the lack of an official in-game designation.  There are armourers, weaponsmiths, architects, engineers, hunters, farmers, ranchers, event managers, explorers, warriors, the list goes on and on.  

 

I think by your description that you play the game with the goal of skill growth.   You describe the game like this;

 

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

The player just gets a list of statistics that can be increased by a small fraction in a dozen or so seconds...

If that is how you see the game, then I agree that you may as well have a program that slowly increments numbers in a spreadsheet.  To me, if the core of your approach to the game is one of making numbers in a list go up then you are missing out on 99% of what I experience in the game.  No wonder you find it boring.

 

My approach is almost the exact inverse of that.  I simply don't grind skills.  I only see skills as my ability to do what I want in the game.  I almost without exception never do stuff in the game with the aim of increasing a skill.  In my whole time playing there has been 1 exceptions to this;  I actively worked on increasing my shipbuilding by about 2 points so that I could start a knarr.  In all other cases, I have had so many things I want to do that if I don't have the skills for a current task I just reshuffle tasks and come back to it. I am only peripherally and intermittently aware of my skill levels.  I just have no use for the kind of mechanism you are proposing. 

 

I would expect that the majority of players would fall somewhere between the extremes of thee and me.  I wouldn't say many are near my end of the spectrum, but then everyone with whom I have interacted in-game has treated Wurm as a virtual world so I also wouldn't say many are near your end of the spectrum, either.  Please, go have a look through the screenshots thread and the designs thread.  People are not creating all that for the skill gains.

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9 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I would completely disagree with this.   There is only one Wurm-defined and named profession, "priest".   However, there are many actual professions being practiced in game, despite the lack of an official in-game designation.  There are armourers, weaponsmiths, architects, engineers, hunters, farmers, ranchers, event managers, explorers, warriors, the list goes on and on.  

 

 

It's just your imagination. More advanced players will grind every skill, ignoring any division into professions, because strong character requires all skills at medium or high level.

 

9 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

If that is how you see the game, then I agree that you may as well have a program that slowly increments numbers in a spreadsheet.  To me, if the core of your approach to the game is one of making numbers in a list go up then you are missing out on 99% of what I experience in the game.  No wonder you find it boring.

 

What do you have besides increasing your skills and collecting items that are used to increase your skills?

The last update to improve the fight has changed a bit for the better, it is more difficult, more interactive, but still quite far from the point where the fight can be considered interesting.
Still, the PvE fight is just about grind skills and acquiring materials, there is no division into the professions "warrior leveling up your skills" and "hunter hunting to get as much best materials as possible".

 

9 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

 

My approach is almost the exact inverse of that.  I simply don't grind skills.  I only see skills as my ability to do what I want in the game.  I almost without exception never do stuff in the game with the aim of increasing a skill.  In my whole time playing there has been 1 exceptions to this;  I actively worked on increasing my shipbuilding by about 2 points so that I could start a knarr.  In all other cases, I have had so many things I want to do that if I don't have the skills for a current task I just reshuffle tasks and come back to it. I am only peripherally and intermittently aware of my skill levels.  I just have no use for the kind of mechanism you are proposing. 

 

How are you going to compete with other players without grinding skills? And if you're not going to compete, why are you playing MMOs?

 

9 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I would expect that the majority of players would fall somewhere between the extremes of thee and me.  I wouldn't say many are near my end of the spectrum, but then everyone with whom I have interacted in-game has treated Wurm as a virtual world so I also wouldn't say many are near your end of the spectrum, either.  Please, go have a look through the screenshots thread and the designs thread.  People are not creating all that for the skill gains.

 

In my opinion, people build stone walls just to grind the masonry skill because this skill gives them big bonuses to the characteristics they need. Sure there will be some who want to build something that looks nice, but they might as well play a single-player game.

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33 minutes ago, Darnok said:

What do you have besides increasing your skills and collecting items that are used to increase your skills?

34 minutes ago, Darnok said:

And if you're not going to compete, why are you playing MMOs?

you know people play games for fun sometimes and don't require being superior to someone to have fun right

 

hot takes as always darnok, keep it up proud of you

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<sigh>  I at least can recognize that your point of view exists.  It seems I cannot expect the same in return.

 

Most of your post is insulting and insinuating that I am in some fashion misrepresenting my approach to and experience of Wurm.   I am a citizen of Harvestmoon, go ask anyone in the alliance about TheTrickster - oh, you don't play so you can't.  Well, if you won't take my word for it at least have the candour to openly say you you think I am lying and then we can deal with that.

 

No, it isn't my imagination.  Go look at those threads I mentioned.  Read about impalongs, or public unique kills.  I know plenty of advanced players with some weak skills - so I know you to be objectively wrong there.

What do I have besides increased skills and items relating to increasing skills?  Er, my whole experience of Wurm.  Friends and neighbours who can visit no matter what the lockdown, a funky green house by the water with a great view, a matched team of two with pretty saddles and tack, gorgeous tools I could never hope to own in real life, a handful of nice boats, exploration and adventure, discovering wonderful vistas, the satisfaction of giving away stuff to people who can use it.  Oh, and cool floppy hat.

I do not play Wurm to compete with anyone.  See my previous point.

I would say your opinion on why people build stone walls is wide of the mark.  I built stone walls to keep my horses from wandering when I was trying my hand at breeding them.  Again, go look at those threads.  

 

I tried to engage.  I tried to appreciate where you are coming from and explain where I am coming from.  The response is a simple repetition of other comments you have made and seems to lack any real reflection on what I wrote at all.  

 

I think you have fundamentally failed to grasp the concept of a sandbox game and from that failure stems your dissatisfaction and these maladroit suggestions.  I think you have also failed to grasp that people other than you can have valid points of view other than yours.  Either that or these are some kind of elaborate trolling.  If you want anyone to take your suggestions as anything other than a nuisance, then you need to actually engage rather than rebuff and insult.

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3 minutes ago, TheTrickster said:

I think you have fundamentally failed to grasp the concept of a sandbox game and from that failure stems your dissatisfaction and these maladroit suggestions.  I think you have also failed to grasp that people other than you can have valid points of view other than yours.  Either that or these are some kind of elaborate trolling.  If you want anyone to take your suggestions as anything other than a nuisance, then you need to actually engage rather than rebuff and insult.

 

@Darnokplease, allow me.

 

qeN26EP.jpg

 

@TheTrickster You are both correct - "PvP" misnamed as it is, is a completely different culture to "PvE". The two of you are arguing for different cultural approaches to the game.

 

When Rolf conceived this game, he didn't expect the overwhelming petitions to "ban PvP" from the lives of >90% of the for-life Wurm population. He made his decision and we all live with the consequences, no matter which culture we belong to. And there's room for individuals of both schools, and a third school, in both populations. IF server populations become more balanced.

 

This decision has had the consequence of effectively exorcising 'trolls' from the "PvE" culture, with nowhere to go because "PvP" population keeps dying, for reasons covered in other threads, both recent and antiquated.

 

Without resident 'trolls', PvP would die out completely. My server DESPERATELY needs these players; their drama, their 'pigheadedness', their mislabelled 'bad-attitude' and their intrinsic rudeness. And it needs to keep them entertained, with mechanical rebalancing.

 

And I can see their perspective. If the option to go to war with Freedom Isles existed, I would be right there alongside them, wrecking your beautiful lands because that culture represents something fundamental I hate IRL, in a way I can't hate other PvP Kingdoms. But unlike most PvPers, I can see that the option to 'go to war' with Freedom Isles subtly, already exists, in a way that doesn't break Game Rules, abuse Game mechanics, or would shame Rolf (I hope). But I don't have the population for such a stunt, even though it would actually solve a lot of Freedom Isles problems for them, from chat-trolls they want rid of, and newbies that 'just don't fit in', to much, much deeper issues that would counter-intuitively support Freedom Isles to become an even stronger Kingdom - fighting your enemies makes them stronger, if it doesn't kill them.

 

Defiance is the "BL server" to NFI's "3 WL servers". And NFI needs Defiance as much as all PvP servers need HotS.

 

Everything you object to in trolls, we ALL need to flourish on PvE's sister PvP servers. The Devs have set us up for success, but we need to do our part too.

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I don't buy it.  Even in PVP victory is about victory, not about the skills you get from victory.  There is a fundamental misunderstanding of which is the cart and which is the horse.

 

The fact is I am arguing for a spectrum of cultural approaches to the game. While in return I am being told that no such spectrum exists.  What we keep getting are suggestions that would suit exactly one approach to the game, Darnok's. 

 

I have commented in good faith, as I try to do with any suggestion, but the outright dismissive rejection of any feedback except unqualified support has me convinced that the good faith is only flowing one way. 

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