Castle walls

[Darnok 201]

I didn't notice that there were defensive walls for castles in the game. Players build great structures, but the walls look quite weak.
Stone shards, stone bricks and dirt would be required to build each section. One section of the wall would take up the entire 1 tile (1 square) and allow walking on the walls. The other sections are stairs, corner and gate.

(this is not square, but couldn't find anything better)

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Darnok

[Eleraan 351]

Isn't that just long 1 wide buildings. Can do bridges and walls to link multiple if you wanted a bigger castle wall.

[Drogos 516]

You mean something like this?

[Darnok 201]

22 minutes ago, Eleraan said:

Isn't that just long 1 wide buildings. Can do bridges and walls to link multiple if you wanted a bigger castle wall.

 

I know there are some talented players who create amazing things by connecting bridges and other structures together, but in my opinion something as basic as castle walls should be a separate structure which may require a lot of material and high skill to build, but from the characters not necessarily the player has to be an architect.

[Gawain 622]

-1. We already have wwalls, floors and stone fences

[Drayka 485]

-1 I've been using deedplanner to plan defensive structures all week. It requires actual creative-thinking.

 

Just because it doesn't LOOK the same as how other games do it, doesn't mean we don't already have this and more.

 

And what we do have has often already been nerfed for being 'overpowered', so it DOESN'T look 'impossible' to attack for so very little work, that the game would be extremely imbalanced.

 

Add in your mechanic, and 'architects' would build stuff so OP, it would be game-breaking.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Drayka

[Darnok 201]

2 hours ago, Drogos said:

You mean something like this?

 

It is not a wall, it is a building that looks like a wall. Right?

[Drogos 516]

8 minutes ago, Darnok said:

It is not a wall, it is a building that looks like a wall. Right?

Correct, so not only can you walk on top of it, you can also have secret stuff stashed inside of it

[TheTrickster 2,284]

2 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

It is not a wall, it is a building that looks like a wall. Right?

So is the graphic used in the OP.  So were the kind of structure described in the OP.    City walls are a different thing, but they generally have no defensive features beyond mass.  Can you not just admit that this is already available in the game?

[Sheffie 1,120]

7 hours ago, Drogos said:

You mean something like this?

No no no. The OP was talking about something that would take up the entire tile, allow walking along the top, and take a lot of materials and skill to build.

 

Nothing like that. At all. 😝

[Darnok 201]

8 hours ago, Drogos said:

Correct, so not only can you walk on top of it, you can also have secret stuff stashed inside of it

 

But that means it should be weaker than castle wall, while my suggestion is to create very strong wall, because I have some idea why players would need it 😉

[Drayka 485]

40 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

But that means it should be weaker than castle wall, while my suggestion is to create very strong wall, because I have some idea why players would need it 😉

 

At this point this topic cannot be discussed further, because it would require us to openly argue defence strategies in front of competitor teams.

[Drayka 485]

You are, in effect, arguing that Wurm needs to be dumbed down so that anyone with any talent for utilising Sandbox mechanics, is excluded from Wurm for being 'criminally' intelligent. That being talented is a crime, and that anyone with talent, should be ostracised from the community as "ruining it for everyone else". And that logical premise follows on to the conclusion that if your 5-year-old cannot play Wurm solo, and hold their own against someone in their 30s, then anyone more sophisticated than a 5-year-old should be forced to play with nothing better than duplex blocks, or leave the community.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Drayka

[Archaed 2,280]

Fun fact. 

 

Castle walls was a pvp style building I wanted to look at regarding some pvp changes, but unfortunately didn't get anywhere. 

 

If you want mechanics, you're suggesting pvp stuff and that's a bit far. If you want the visuals, they can be matched in similar ways 

[Drayka 485]

Not-so-fun fact.

 

I am dire at combat. I don't need other players to kill me, I'd die to a mob train. And that's not so much stats and skills, as inability to grasp basic principles of Wurm combat. I need a dedicated shotcaller, working with me, calling out what I should be doing, whilst watching my stream. And Discord doesn't allow you to watch one stream and speak specifically to the streamer alone, whilst hearing everything else going on in a group battle. Does that mean other players who are talented at PvP principles, and in competitor teams, should be banned from playing Wurm for 'griefing/zerging'? No.

 

It's taken me a while, but I've found my place in the PvP community. It's still horribly frustrating at times, because I unreasonably feel I should be able to do what other people can do, and many think it's just a matter of stats and skills, and it's not. But I CAN potentially plan and build challenging defences, if I get my RL-skills high enough. And I can include my whole Alliance in the construction of these defences, as long as I use enough signs and construction markers, and maybe some screenshots of phased construction, and know how to efficiently get their account's core skills up to minimum requirements. (As opposed to using alts to skip the need to have good relationships with other people.) I can make my Kingdom's lands a fun place for enemies to come and play with us in, and secure my Kingdom's future on this server by doing so, for my part.

 

But don't ask me to go "Kill 4 X-enemy tower guards" for a Valrei mission, because I'll end up in a really bad mood when I fail, because I will feel I am not-good-enough to contribute to PvP-community priorities.

The same is true for this. No, I don't want duplex blocks for people who can't build good defences with the components available. I'd rather they either serve an apprenticeship with me, and then convert-Kingdoms/switch-servers and build their own thing, OR I'll supply them with the blueprints for old builds, or even builds I never made, so that they can replicate my designs in a competitor group, if they can't reverse-engineer it by raiding older deeds which are weaker builds, possibly even abandoned entirely, but suitable for their needs at this time. And I'm happy for competitors to know that. I'm not the most talented architect out there, but I am learning to become one. I like terraforming. It's slow, requires depth of understanding of the mechanics, and the ability to reverse-engineer the reasons why certain restrictions exist as 'OP'.

 

And your 'castle wall' blocks are OP. Just an afk click-fest of spamming add-component after having used skill-grinding to reach the account requirements of doing so, to build something better than everything else in the game. If I had those, I'd have to ban myself from utilising them on this server, because it would be game-breaking for inter-Kingdom PvP, and I'd get bored because there would be no point in designing anything creative anymore. Block-block-block-done. Best-build meta accomplished. AND either newbies couldn't build it until they had played the game for months, or everyone could build it within 2-weeks on a new account.

 

-1 for killing sandbox depth and all requirement for community cooperation.

[DaletheGood 1,073]

-1 to this. We have this in game already, which if the OP actually played the game they'd know.

[nitram20 90]

10 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

But that means it should be weaker than castle wall, while my suggestion is to create very strong wall, because I have some idea why players would need it 😉

So how about being more clear as to what you want then? 
We say you can make the same thing that looks like a castle wall, but then you say a “castle wall” building should be stronger

[Darnok 201]

15 hours ago, nitram20 said:

So how about being more clear as to what you want then? 
We say you can make the same thing that looks like a castle wall, but then you say a “castle wall” building should be stronger

 

Stronger and simpler to make, but can require lots of resources. I will describe this larger idea soon.

[Drayka 485]

As far as I can tell, Darnok wants a 1x1 flat-bridge abutment as an independently buildable block that is stronger than a 1x1 stone house of the same quality.

 

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed, because it seemed impossible to build anything that wouldn't be so weak that there was no point in building any defences in the first place.

 

Now, I think it would be overpowered for WO, and would require a complete rewrite of the entire mechanics of terraforming, mining, fences, walls, multistorey housing and bridges, to balance it into the existing mechanics without being game-breaking. In which case you might as well start-over the entire codebase and create an entirely new game from scratch.

 

Or, it would be so nerfed because these things aren't rebalanced to revolve around it, that there would be no point in implementing it in the first place, which I assume is why the devs have not done so already.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Drayka

[Drogos 516]

 

On 7/9/2021 at 7:37 AM, Darnok said:

my suggestion is to create very strong wall, because I have some idea why players would need it

 

I just remembered this game has PvP in it too, is this PvP related? If not, would you elaborate a bit on the idea, and it might be easier to understand what you are going for here, cause I for one, is still lost not even understanding what you are after.

[Darnok 201]

2 hours ago, Drayka said:

As far as I can tell, Darnok wants a 1x1 flat-bridge abutment as an independently buildable block that is stronger than a 1x1 stone house of the same quality.

 

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed, because it seemed impossible to build anything that wouldn't be so weak that there was no point in building any defences in the first place.

 

Now, I think it would be overpowered for WO, and would require a complete rewrite of the entire mechanics of terraforming, mining, fences, walls, multistorey housing and bridges, to balance it into the existing mechanics without being game-breaking. In which case you might as well start-over the entire codebase and create an entirely new game from scratch.

 

Or, it would be so nerfed because these things aren't rebalanced to revolve around it, that there would be no point in implementing it in the first place, which I assume is why the devs have not done so already.

 

A few months earlier, I proposed adding mammoths to the game, so the walls that you find too difficult to destroy today would not be problem if larger animals could, for example, pull out the gates. In the real world, sieges were focused on destroying gates rather than walls. And walls that could not be destroyed were taken in other ways, for example by using siege towers.

3:50

 

 

In another thread I saw that someone suggested horse draft gear, it could be combined and with the help of some larger rope and ballista dart to break down some of the gates.

And if you absolutely want to destroy the walls, I suggest you fill the small barrel with oil, the same that is used as fuel for lamps, but with some hard-to-get additional ingredient that causes an explosion and damage even the most powerful walls.

For balance, the defenders could dig wolf pits empty to just trap enemy or filled with tar, after falling into such a pit and bathing in tar, the character could be set on fire and extinguishing him would be practically impossible.
From the attackers point of view, the wolf pit could only be detected with a tracking skill level higher than the character that made and masked the pit. Of course, the limitation should be that the pits can only be masked on your deed or perimeter so that no one can abuse this method against new players.

I mean if balance in PvP is your main problem, but all of my suggestions are for PvE. PvP or group fights are imo terrible.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darnok

[Drayka 485]

Your suggestions being for PvE-only makes no sense, as you haven't once stated that until now, and all your suggestions have revolved around combat mechanics that have a major effect on PvP gameplay and almost no effect on PvE gameplay.

 

If you just wanted things to look cosmetically, aesthetically 'stronger', why wouldn't you suggest a cosmetic skin for walls instead of changing the basic building blocks of the game? After all, you've stated that you are pro-'DLC' content.

[Darnok 201]

On 7/11/2021 at 6:58 PM, Drayka said:

Your suggestions being for PvE-only makes no sense, as you haven't once stated that until now, and all your suggestions have revolved around combat mechanics that have a major effect on PvP gameplay and almost no effect on PvE gameplay.

 

If you just wanted things to look cosmetically, aesthetically 'stronger', why wouldn't you suggest a cosmetic skin for walls instead of changing the basic building blocks of the game? After all, you've stated that you are pro-'DLC' content.

 

There are no walls in the game right now, just different types of fences. I just wanted larger and stronger castle walls, there is a mechanism in the game that allows you to simulate larger walls, but this is not a wall but a building that can be decorated to look like walls of a castle.

 

[Drayka 485]

23 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

There are no walls in the game right now, just different types of fences. I just wanted larger and stronger castle walls, there is a mechanism in the game that allows you to simulate larger walls, but this is not a wall but a building that can be decorated to look like walls of a castle.

 

Use Bridges. It does 99% everything you're asking for, with the glaring exception of having the right nametag on mouseover for you.

 

Build at least three bridges, before you say the game absolutely HAS to have an almost identical feature because "I don't want a 'bridge', I want a 'castle wall'." Go on test server if you're too impatient to wait until your skills are high enough in WU.

[TheTrickster 2,284]

Wait, what?  A whole bunch of player-versus-player mechanics intended for PVE servers.  Colour me baffled.