Darnok

Darnok's gameplay and UX suggestions

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2 hours ago, Sheffie said:

 

This got me thinking.

Why doesn't Darnok get all of these brilliant easy to implement ideas into WU as mods? Then, he can ride back here on a wave of public acclaim, basking in the runaway success of WU with Darnok inspired mods, and rescue WO by inspiring the devs to do the same thing?

 

I've written quite a lot of inspiring suggestions, if it's not enough for the Devs to decide to do something in the direction that I think is right direction, then after a while I will decide that this game is not worth my time and I will look for something better.

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2 hours ago, Darnok said:

I've written quite a lot of inspiring suggestions, if it's not enough for the Devs to decide to do something in the direction that I think is right direction, then after a while I will decide that this game is not worth my time and I will look for something better.

 

🤣

 

Try to Dev even 1 WU mod yourself. Even if all it does is change the spawn rate of flowers, or change the render scale of a particular mob. Trifling changes that are hard to mess up.

 

ANYONE who is not prepared to do even that, has massively less than zero right to judge what is worth the time of a programmer. They may politely and even avidly suggest, but they may not condemn another for failure to act upon a suggestion they wouldn't lift a finger to attempt themselves.

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darnoc u try to help ,if its not the right way that does not mean you are not trying to help ,we need people like you , i make same mistakes sometimes aswell as the rest of us thats wurm

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Quote

Breakfast for newbies

Breakfast has a bonus that, when eaten, gives character new status for 1 hour reduces duration of the action by some amount.

The value of the bonus does not depend on the quality of the breakfast, but on the level of the skill the character uses.

1-15 skill level - action time is reduced by 70%, but the skill gain remains at the normal level

15-30 skill level - action time reduction 50% but the skill gain remains at the normal level

30+ skill level - bonus is not working, normal action time for this level

The new character starts the game with 2x breakfasts in the inventory.

bulk hacks... just pop alts.. feed them and chip bricks.. what's the point to prem or skill up if you get crab speed later on in the game..

 

totally balanced LEL?

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3 minutes ago, Finnn said:

bulk hacks... just pop alts.. feed them and chip bricks.. what's the point to prem or skill up if you get crab speed later on in the game..

 

totally balanced LEL?

 

To remove skill cap?

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Posted (edited)

it's subscription based game.. how do you imagine the company will handle a 1000 or 5.. of 'bots' or not.. and all under the table tos violating and selling gold to players.. because it's all free, and without any limitation?

--edit

that alone is not the main issue.. the company makes money mainly from subs(even if lately it's maybe most from bought silver from the shop), how do you imagine whole alt scaling with f2p alts?

Edited by Finnn

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34 minutes ago, Finnn said:

it's subscription based game.. how do you imagine the company will handle a 1000 or 5.. of 'bots' or not.. and all under the table tos violating and selling gold to players.. because it's all free, and without any limitation?

--edit

that alone is not the main issue.. the company makes money mainly from subs(even if lately it's maybe most from bought silver from the shop), how do you imagine whole alt scaling with f2p alts?

 

Do you understand that you have now written that the game has developed to a level where it can no longer deal with the problems that some mechanics create?

 

There is something in the beginning of the game that scares the novice players away (check my previous post with steam chart), maybe I'm wrong, but I identify this as mainly problem of too long action timers (this hits the player who just came to Wurm first), so it seems logical to me that if new players are to stay longer, this problem should be fixed first.

 

If players start abusing alts, they can always be banned or although in the case of "breakfast for newbies" solution would be very simple.

If your skill has reached level 20 and you have a free account, bonus from meal does not work anymore, and if you need even more drastic penalty for players who abuse alts, you can always do that...

just increase action timer for skill of level 20 to value it had on the level 1.

 

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56 minutes ago, Darnok said:

There is something in the beginning of the game that scares the novice players away (check my previous post with steam chart), maybe I'm wrong, but I identify this as mainly problem of too long action timers (this hits the player who just came to Wurm first), so it seems logical to me that if new players are to stay longer, this problem should be fixed first.

Create a WU mod and test if shorter action timers lead to greater player retention. Or alternatively provide multiple player testimony to support your theory, by hosting a standard WU server and inviting players to play it and review it for you, or plain just invite a large number of people to play WO and review it at 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month. Spend a research budget on it if you have to.

 

This wild theorising of yours supported by truly weak evidence that @Oblivionnreavershredded to make a point, would never make it past the accountants at ANY software company.

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1 hour ago, Drayka said:

Create a WU mod and test if shorter action timers lead to greater player retention. Or alternatively provide multiple player testimony to support your theory, by hosting a standard WU server and inviting players to play it and review it for you, or plain just invite a large number of people to play WO and review it at 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 2 weeks, 1 month. Spend a research budget on it if you have to.

 

This wild theorising of yours supported by truly weak evidence that @Oblivionnreavershredded to make a point, would never make it past the accountants at ANY software company.

 

If you would play WU, you would see that each of the existing servers has accelerated skill gain and actions timers, it's just a question of how much x5, x3 or different multiplier.

 

But that's another WO problem, if you increase skill gain what will players do after 2 months?
There is no division into early, medium and late game armors and weapons in the game. Everything is available practically equally from start, the question of what skills you will invest your time in.

Although here I have some idea how to solve it and add new armors without any large changes in balance. Check OP in a while.

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Posted (edited)

Darnok how much or how long have you played WO? I’ve been around since before boats and I’ve seen a lot of big and small changes to the game. I’ve seen people flock to the game and leave  just as quickly because wurm online isn’t the kind of game that gives instant gratification.
 

It’s not that it’s bad or that it couldn’t use some change but your suggestions here are just not thought through well enough and show a lack of understanding.

 

Personally I would love for gems to have a practical application for crafting but you didn’t suggest a practical application you suggested the same things runes already basically do.

 

Your ideas are not awful but they’re a quick fix to a broken system that honestly the bugs need to be fixed before more content is added. There are skills based on literally one item and do absolutely nothing useful like yo-yo I will say this.

 

If your dissatisfied with how it works do as some of the other commenters say, do the work and build your own WU mods to show proof of concept then come back and help fix it from a place of understanding but if you can’t even do that then you may want to find another game. It’s likely not going to change enough to satisfy you based on what you want.

Edited by Blacklotus
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3 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

Do you understand that you have now written that the game has developed to a level where it can no longer deal with the problems that some mechanics create?

 

There is something in the beginning of the game that scares the novice players away (check my previous post with steam chart), maybe I'm wrong, but I identify this as mainly problem of too long action timers (this hits the player who just came to Wurm first), so it seems logical to me that if new players are to stay longer, this problem should be fixed first.

 

If players start abusing alts, they can always be banned or although in the case of "breakfast for newbies" solution would be very simple.

If your skill has reached level 20 and you have a free account, bonus from meal does not work anymore, and if you need even more drastic penalty for players who abuse alts, you can always do that...

just increase action timer for skill of level 20 to value it had on the level 1.

 

it's hyper-unlikely scenario that ccab will ever drop subscription model, if that happens - there will be hyper bad scenario for f2ps and subscription will be all rainbows and sunshine

I dont ####### know how you imagine that for example final fantasy will just think, oh sh.. we should go out of business and sudoku this sh.. making millions and go f2p, give every cool thing to the bots farming and selling gold and you know what... ditch the backers, lets just not care about there who kept this going, we do not need new ones.. we'll be fine going in debt, f2p is the future..

 

NO GAME is running on that model..

there's normally a ton of transactions in the path of that... and subscriptions making things easier or paving the path with golden bricks.. does this sound like modern world, can you recall a few or more games working like that? oh.. wonder why they do it in such way and do not work for free.

 

if there was another way to make money.. and it was developed... yea.. f2p is possible, no skill lock etc.. but until that is planned and actively supporting the game.. this is nothing but a woodscrap joke post for 1st april

 

economics.. garbage... just imagine if you had to pay 1-30euro every month per tool you use.. 'nice $$$$$$$$  mmo sandbox there', that stinks more than the entropia universe

FE had similar system with item 'fatigue'(#), which was better... you craft same tier item and RIP that spare item... to feed fatigue to your main.. doesnt break things too much... but sinks some skill and resources.. or currency.. depending what you put into obtaining the item you rip for that; do we need such system.. idk, it's sandbox.. most games are fine with constant items; issue is that we have NO NEW ITEMS.. 0 NEW development, not ########## up old content.. improvements that just force you to get the new.. and ditch the old because the new one is better, that's how it's done in all games..

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4 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

Do you understand that you have now written that the game has developed to a level where it can no longer deal with the problems that some mechanics create?

 

tell me more.. who doesn't like boring random fiction nonsense, 'I thought' is how it starts... backed by nothing, unnamed essay with an F-

share the whole story if you must

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On 7/24/2021 at 3:56 AM, Darnok said:

Cloth 2 seconds for each part and we lose 2% stamina for each action.
Leather and studded leather 4 seconds and 3% stamina.
Chain and plate 6 seconds and 5% stamina.

 

How would this get players to stay and play wurm? Action timers are already long enough as is. Especially as a starting player. Taking a few hours to gather and make all the resources to make your first 1tile house. Now you want to add even more time for someone to just throw on armor. Big -1. 

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On 7/24/2021 at 4:21 AM, Darnok said:

If the longbow was used in combat on horseback, tell me which country did it and what was the name of the longbow armed cavalry unit?

 

Tell me which country had to fight off Trolls and Goblins??? And cast magic spells to help them do so?

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2 hours ago, Finnn said:

issue is that we have NO NEW ITEMS.. 0 NEW development, not ########## up old content.. improvements that just force you to get the new.. and ditch the old because the new one is better, that's how it's done in all games..

 

Just updated OP with suggestions for some new armors 😉

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Posted (edited)

please just find a different game at this point

 

what is "tactical" about any of this? it's just half baked ideas that were either already removed or do nothing to improve gameplay or player experience

 

here's a good thing to keep in mind

gameplay > "muh realism"

 

I'd also avoid using realism as a basis for anything while requesting ghosts and werewolves

 

Edited by Madnath
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47 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Just updated OP with suggestions for some new armors 😉

that's the problem with you guy.. you do not play the game, you imagine things, and think somebody cares what you think about the game you do not play or understand

wouldn't be this bad if you had at least half decent proposals that align with any existing model 

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1 hour ago, Madnath said:

please just find a different game at this point

 

what is "tactical" about any of this? it's just half baked ideas that were either already removed or do nothing to improve gameplay or player experience

 

here's a good thing to keep in mind

gameplay > "muh realism"

 

I'd also avoid using realism as a basis for anything while requesting ghosts and werewolves

 

I run away from realism to play wurm, OP needs wurm to get back to reality? XD 🤔

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Finnn said:

that's the problem with you guy.. you do not play the game, you imagine things, and think somebody cares what you think about the game you do not play or understand

wouldn't be this bad if you had at least half decent proposals that align with any existing model 

 

I am playing, but I perceive game's problems differently. I don't think you understand what makes games interesting for average person.

It is not a single skill grind at 0.001 per action for month or two, but what player can produce and how many opponents he can face.
There are very few NPCs in Wurm, which makes PvE boring very quickly.

Crafting is nice at start, but later it turns out that we only have 3-4 weapons that counts and only ONE weapon that is overpowered and that 90% fighters prefers.

Instead of several types of metals from which armor and weapon could be made, there are only 2 that matters (iron and steel) for average player. Because remaining metals and alloys have such high negative properties that it is not worth even mining them, if you are not a miner and do not want to have skill at level of 100.

I see that you have been playing for quite a long time, so take a moment and cut out everything that is not worth touching in the game, because it is not worth the player's time and everything that the average player will not use, because the max that will reach is 80 skill level for 1-2 skills. What's left?

 

This is what is left

July 2020 - 1226

July 2021 - 197

and it's not the 1000 players who must understand that they must like what you like, but the other way around, the veterans must understand that if they want to continue to have Wurm that is worth developing, the game must also attract average players, not only those who play 5 + years.

 

I forgot about wool, it would be nice to have some kind of use for it... Warm cloth armor

 

Edited by Darnok

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15 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Instead of several types of metals from which armor and weapon could be made, there are only 2 that matters (iron and steel) for average player. Because remaining metals and alloys have such high negative properties that it is not worth even mining them, if you are not a miner and do not want to have skill at level of 100.

 

As much as I hate Star Wars...

PjFJ0tB.jpeg

 

Iron will always be the go to for tools because it's an easy baseline, with no real issues that ruin it.

Steel always has been a pain in the rear and generally not worth the effort for tools. As armour? For sure, if you want plate.

 

Weapons are an entirely different ballgame. Iron is acceptable for starting off, when low on resources or if you want to skill and reduce your overall damage per hit to be able to grind on weaker mobs. Silver is the best, because the extra damage has and always will be worth the trade off for imping.

Anything else is dog water.

 

I give you a 1/10, there's issues with metal characteristics but none of what you proposes solves any issue or adds any real good depth to the game. Farming needs some sort of expansion, but I don't think things like plows are really neccesary when there's other ways to expand or make the system more interactive or deep. There'd also be issues with implementing some of the things, like how "maximum QL" items could be implimented now we have decade old items in the game.

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3 hours ago, brattygirl said:

 

How would this get players to stay and play wurm? Action timers are already long enough as is. Especially as a starting player. Taking a few hours to gather and make all the resources to make your first 1tile house. Now you want to add even more time for someone to just throw on armor. Big -1. 

 

I just like balance, fact that some armor offers better defense for balance must also have some disadvantage. When you are on foot it is balanced, but the problem starts when character gets on a horse or a vehicle then balance disappears and armor with better protection is simply better.

I have two ideas, in fact, one is to slow down getting on and off the horse, and the other is to slow down the horse and the vehicle, either the turning rate or the speed of movement.

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4 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

I just like balance, fact that some armor offers better defense for balance must also have some disadvantage. When you are on foot it is balanced, but the problem starts when character gets on a horse or a vehicle then balance disappears and armor with better protection is simply better.

I have two ideas, in fact, one is to slow down getting on and off the horse, and the other is to slow down the horse and the vehicle, either the turning rate or the speed of movement.

 

There isn't a problem. Nothing you've suggested solves any issue other than create a boring, horrible to use system where "ha putting on armour takes time now :)"

It hasn't fixed an issue. It just creates a more boring experience for every player.

Slowing down getting on and off a horse is a TERRIBLE idea, and slowing down creatures is also going to be DREADFUL. Xanadu players would have your head on a spike. Turning rate is already bog water awful and people already hate it. What does increasing it do for balance?

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

As much as I hate Star Wars...

PjFJ0tB.jpeg

 

Iron will always be the go to for tools because it's an easy baseline, with no real issues that ruin it.

Steel always has been a pain in the rear and generally not worth the effort for tools. As armour? For sure, if you want plate.

 

Weapons are an entirely different ballgame. Iron is acceptable for starting off, when low on resources or if you want to skill and reduce your overall damage per hit to be able to grind on weaker mobs. Silver is the best, because the extra damage has and always will be worth the trade off for imping.

Anything else is dog water.

 

I give you a 1/10, there's issues with metal characteristics but none of what you proposes solves any issue or adds any real good depth to the game. Farming needs some sort of expansion, but I don't think things like plows are really neccesary when there's other ways to expand or make the system more interactive or deep. There'd also be issues with implementing some of the things, like how "maximum QL" items could be implimented now we have decade old items in the game.

 

So I said there are 2 metals that matters and you are saying this is wrong because there 2.5 important metals, not iron and steel, but silver and steel and we must use iron, because there is no other choice, nice 😄

 

Adding goblin metal, which removes negative effects from most of metals and body str requirement for weapons (maybe for armors that could work too?), should encourage use of different armors and weapons.

Farming - for example?

I don't see a problem for old items and max QL, just after update max ql value will be given to them at some specific level 50 or 60 should do this just fine.

 

As for your expectations, are you sure you are not exaggerating a bit? Are you counting on me to develop a better system than group of Devs who spent 10 years on the project?

It's very nice that you have such a good opinion of me, that I'm capable of it, but it's probably too much 🙂

 

Edited by Darnok

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1 minute ago, Darnok said:

So I said there are 2 metals that matters and you are saying this is wrong because there 2 important metals, not iron and steel, but silver and steel, nice 😄

 

Adding goblin metal, which removes negative effects from most of metals, should encourage use if different armors and weapons.

Farming - for example?

I don't see a problem for old items and max QL, just after update max ql value will be given to them at some specific level 50 or 60 should do this just fine.

 

As for your expectations, are you sure you are not exaggerating a bit? Are you counting on me to develop a better system than group of Devs who spent 10 years on the project?

It's very nice that you have such a good opinion of me, that I'm capable of it, but it's probably too much 🙂

 

 

The point was that the item changes what's ideal, and while you got iron being right, you're still mostly wrong

Adding "goblin metal" is another weird idea for "balancing" that does nothing but create the same boring end result metal characteristics tried to introduce, which was to try and spice up the kind of metals you'd use for what, you've just homogenize the entire thing but create a weird variation that would make reimp orders a nightmare to sort out

Farming is something that's easy to see as open for expansion given it starts at "seed", then "rake" and ends in "harvest" and it's not something I've given massive amounts of thought to, but things like fertilizer could be a more interesting proposal

If you don't see a problem with items people are long attached to, being suddenly unable to be imped past 50 or 60QL, then you're already so far gone this whole chat is pointless.

 

And for that final part, there's no nice way to say this so I'm going to be very, very blunt.

Nobody expects anything good from your threads, given they've all been dunked and dabbed on more than any thread I've ever seen in my entire time here. None of them have given a reasonable argument or proposal for improving aspects of the game you see as an issue, they just paint a picture of questionable intent.

 

I will lower my final grade to 0/10. Please consider your ideas more thoroughly.

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21 minutes ago, Darnok said:

I just like balance, fact that some armor offers better defense for balance must also have some disadvantage. When you are on foot it is balanced, but the problem starts when character gets on a horse or a vehicle then balance disappears and armor with better protection is simply better.

I have two ideas, in fact, one is to slow down getting on and off the horse, and the other is to slow down the horse and the vehicle, either the turning rate or the speed of movement.

This isn't balance though. This is just inconvenience. You are trying to make a game that already takes up time, take up that much more time. There are disadvantages to better armor. It may not be physical disadvantages. But for starters it is not something obtained in a day or two. It takes many slayings to get the resources needed to craft a drake and scale set. Not only that but it also takes a lot of skill to even consider crafting one, and if you fail to make a piece and loose some of that material, then it takes even more time to gather more mats. So now what you are saying is the set of armor that took months, maybe even years to get (since a lot of these slayings are done privately and sold at a very expensive rate), are now stuck with being hindered wearing the armor. Also horse speed is already affected by the character's weight. Which is something you would know if you "PLAYED THE GAME"

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