Darnok's gameplay and UX suggestions

[Finnn 3,315]

I wonder why you suggest changes to a game you do not play, these are not going to WU, and you're not playing WO, what's the point?

 

[Darnok 208]

48 minutes ago, Finnn said:

That's generally problem with several of the latest forum suggestions/and some new content.. making the game harder than it should be and add more complexity than needed, original long term mechanics have a goal, way to achieve it: better or not.. and a little spice to it to get the one or other result with better odds, but that wraps a good mechanic which you can trust and depend on, also it makes it easy to explain to others.

 

I have no problems with complexity, but repetition is simply boring (and looking at Wurm's stats it's not just my opinion). How many times do I have to press the button I set as mining to get the 60 skill level? Hundreds? Thousands? And that's it, there's nothing else to do in the mine and then the surprise that when the average player realizes that the game works like this, he quits.

 

As I wrote before, mining could be more complex. The fact that there is current system is ok and it can be used to make game even better. It's just that the new player is using mining as it is currently, but when he reaches prospecting at the 20+ level, an alternative method is unlocked for him.
Maybe the 5 areas that a tile should divide is too much to start with, so for prospecting 20-30, let it be 3 areas that the wall is divided to. When you see the appropriate message, you must select the area indicated by the game and use the mining action. Of course, if you have added many mining actions to the queue, you will not be able to do it, because, as I mentioned, interrupting the currently ongoing action should result in failure. But if you've added the next action for the correct area of the wall, the reward will be faster material mining and more skill gain.
For higher prospecting values of 30-40, the wall can be divided into 4 areas, for 40-50, into 5, etc. the greater the complexity, the higher the reward, but at the same time the game requires more atention from the player.

At higher levels, apart from the pickaxe, an additional tool could be useful, similar to how it looks when upgrading items. The complexity for the miner (and not only for this profession) would increase gradually, but the increase in complexity would have offer a greater reward, but would never be forced.
Any player, even at the highest level, could still use this basic feature (press 1 button all the time), except that they would receive less and the quality would be random, so there would be more waste. And performing more complex actions would result in more quantity of resources and their quality would be closer to the maximum quality that player can get out of a given tile using his skill level.
 

Similarly with gems, their extraction may not be entirely random, i.e. the player receives a random message that he has noticed a flash in one of the areas where the wall is divided, and if he hits this area with a pickaxe, he will receive a gem. Thanks to such simple additions, the player would have to focus on the game all the time and with the right number of add-ons, the game would be very interesting.

Upgrading items, structures, vehicles etc can also be changed in such a way that the complexity increases and the repeatability decreases.
For example, upgrading items for ql 1-20 can be done with basic material (wooden shield requires wood) and one tool.
For 20-30 ql, wood will be required (it would be good if it was the same type that we used to create the shield) and two tools.
For 30-50 ql wood + 3 tools.
For 50-70 ql wood, metal (shield require ribbons to create) and 3 tools.
For 70+ ql wood, metal + 4 tools.

System should allow you to guess what tool or material will be used for the next improve action, so a novice player would have 50% chance (wood + 1 tool) and if he can guess the requirement, the upgrade and skill gain is considerable higher. The higher the ql and more tools required to upgrade, the harder it would be to guess right tool and to get the bonus. But the bonus itself could be high enough to reduce the repetition of the same activity. And I think this would be pretty fun for players, because people like to guess and they like when they hit bingo  🙂

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Darnok

[Brattygirl 919]

4 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

Tunneling and surface mining are two different things? Read again I said about tunnels (underground) I don't see how you could ran out of oxygen making canals.

To make these long underground canals would require a lot of tunneling. Which by your method of loosing oxygen and taking damage would lead to a lot of deaths. Which would make players not want to mine these things out. Because let’s be real. Who wants to die in wurm and loose skill. 

[Finnn 3,315]

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

I have no problems with complexity, but repetition is simply boring (and looking at Wurm's stats it's not just my opinion). How many times do I have to press the button I set as mining to get the 60 skill level? Hundreds? Thousands? And that's it, there's nothing else to do in the mine and then the surprise that when the average player realizes that the game works like this, he quits.

 

...

I see nothing wrong with keeping things simple and stupid, it's way easier to navigate, there are so many skills.. adding complexity to them all and forcing rocket-science to track all small nonsense mechanics following no standard will be a total mess - unplayable.

 

Think of this and other games.. they normally follow pretty easy steps to get things done, if there's extra effort.. there should be extra reward.. me doing a hex witch sign to mine or dig 5 more bits and be triggered by the trigger triggering the event trigger will just as said trigger me to alt+f4

[nitram20 90]

Finnn did bring up a fair point.

 

Nothing you suggest on this forum will ever make it into WU

[DaletheGood 1,073]

Getting so tired of this person who clearly doesn't even play the game. If you find WO boring, don't play it, and leave us the hell alone. Huge -1 for this

Edited July 9, 2021 by neopherus
Moderation edit

[TheTrickster 2,284]

[Darnok 208]

20 hours ago, Finnn said:

I see nothing wrong with keeping things simple and stupid, it's way easier to navigate, there are so many skills.. adding complexity to them all and forcing rocket-science to track all small nonsense mechanics following no standard will be a total mess - unplayable.

 

Think of this and other games.. they normally follow pretty easy steps to get things done, if there's extra effort.. there should be extra reward.. me doing a hex witch sign to mine or dig 5 more bits and be triggered by the trigger triggering the event trigger will just as said trigger me to alt+f4

 

If you like simple games go play minecraft. I still think that reducing repeatability by adding a degree of complexity is a great idea. Once the complexity would be introduced gradually, so the player would learn everything, two would not be bored, because every now and then a new element would appear.

 

 

[Darnok 208]

Collisions with other players and animals, as well as vehicles.

Non-aggressive animals should become aggressive after colliding with a player moving at high speed.
 

Vehicles (cart and wagon) should take damage when they collide with a tree or a player-created object (unless it is vehicle owner deed, on your deed you can collide for free 🙂).
Vehicles should also take damage if the player tries to drive over too steep terrain. I don't see why players use carts or wagons for exploration and not horses.

A player armed with long spear while riding a horse (after exceeding a certain speed) during collision with mobs or other players should deal to them very high damage. Armored horses with draft and combat trait should additionally enhance the damage dealt during a collision.

An initial attack for animals such as the bison, bull, male deer, ram, unicorn, lava fiend would be a charge that deals damage to players and vehicles (if the player is in a cart or wagon). If the player runs away from the animal, his attack would also be a charge causing collision with the player or his vehicle.

Goblins should have spears and deal extra damage to riders.

The bears, mountain lions and wolves should scare the animals led by the player. So right after combat with the bear starts, all the animals that the player had lead start to run away for a few tiles.
Spiders should throw a web on a random tile around them once every few attacks, the player, after stepping into that tile, is additionally slowed down.

Scorpions should deal extra damage to players without a shield.
Crocodiles, hell hounds and anacondas should attack and damage the horses and the player simultaneously (the horses attached to the vehicles as well).

Trolls should perform a special blow (random, can trigger only if troll is below 50% health) that would knock the player off the horse or vehicle.

 

[Ekcin 2,414]

-1

[Finnn 3,315]

no

 

[SirMuttley 151]

-1. These might be interesting on a server that people could travel to and experience, but adding to the existing game isn't needed in my opinion.

[Finnn 3,315]

why? you do not even play the game.. and you just trash it with insane suggestions that have no link to this game world and community or the playstyle of the game

 

just make a thread, a thread in wood-scraps and suggest all things in 1 thread.. somebody could possibly dumpster-dive and find a gem or 2 here or there and suggest a useful feature over time, but generally the things you suggest are just not for this game without changing 99% of it to start adopting your 'simple' new additions

 

you want people thrown off horses/carts.. OK, I'll play this .. but give me same mean to fight and end or skip the event.. not just get ###### on by a pixel puppy with a club, I'm 97+ fs.. and you tell me a jerk from level 60 fs is trouble - THIS IS JUST DUMB to think about it being a thing; it's stupid that it's rng to survive a champion of certain kind in wurm as it is.. and you suggest to make any normal creature annoyance to deal with? you're joking with us all, are you having a laugh there?

 

I'm giving you a blueprint how incomplete your suggestion is, there's no ground to build special events, there's no way for the player to fight the stupidity that can randomly happen

 

it's like suggesting a random random random random random event wheel to randomly randomly happen at a random random random time at a random random random screen position on your random screen and trigger a random random event which randomly kills you for a random reason, because randomly that might be fun to some random person, even if that is randomly not found to be so by you at the random time it happens.

 

do you really think any of that will be fun to happen to you or anybody else? really?

 

closest thing to that in wurm is EVENT ######## message for the rift warmoaner just before spawning ice/lava.. and if you are stupid enough(done this.. but at times I'm bored to track it) to read the crapload of combat log lines.. you get tipped to move away and fight it outside of that area(guess ######## what 99% of the people have no ######### clue that this is a thing.. because nobody reads the event log.. for pve it's not a thing to have such mobility, and the rewards to do extra actions should be there.. rift warmoaner is the ONLY creature that forces you to consider such action, possibly champs/ogres at rifts before they attack everyone infront of them(guess what again.. most people have no clue orges do frontal aoe attacks), guess what.. whole fighting is bad as it is.. and there's no queue or way to fight certain things.. you want to make every single fight with a meek creature into a mess? are you joking dood? 

 

if you suggested change to chess.. you'd suggest 1 new move that is simple and wins the game, every time, and only your opponent can do it, at any time or half way throught the game(random rule, right(?).. makes it like it's legit thought through idea and rule) - there you lose; - no.. it's legit good idea, your opponent randomly picked to do this move and you have now lost the game, accept it, fun playing with you

 

 

INSANE, the "depth level of the suggestions" is just aggravating each time

Edited July 10, 2021 by Finnn

[Darnok 208]

18 minutes ago, Finnn said:

why? you do not even play the game.. and you just trash it with insane suggestions that have no link to this game world and community or the playstyle of the game

 

just make a thread, a thread in wood-scraps and suggest all things in 1 thread.. somebody could possibly dumpster-dive and find a gem or 2 here or there and suggest a useful feature over time, but generally the things you suggest are just not for this game without changing 99% of it to start adopting your 'simple' new additions

 

you want people thrown off horses/carts.. OK, I'll play this .. but give me same mean to fight and end or skip the event.. not just get ###### on by a pixel puppy with a club, I'm 97+ fs.. and you tell me a jerk from level 60 fs is trouble - THIS IS JUST DUMB to think about it being a thing; it's stupid that it's rng to survive a champion of certain kind in wurm as it is.. and you suggest to make any normal creature annoyance to deal with? you're joking with us all, are you having a laugh there?

 

I'm giving you a blueprint how incomplete your suggestion is, there's no ground to build special events, there's no way for the player to fight the stupidity that can randomly happen

 

it's like suggesting a random random random random random event wheel to randomly randomly happen at a random random random time at a random random random screen position on your random screen and trigger a random random event which randomly kills you for a random reason, because randomly that might be fun to some random person, even if that is randomly not found to be so by you at the random time it happens.

 

do you really think any of that will be fun to happen to you or anybody else? really?

 

closest thing to that in wurm is EVENT ######## message for the rift warmoaner just before spawning ice/lava.. and if you are stupid enough(done this.. but at times I'm bored to track it) to read the crapload of combat log lines.. you get tipped to move away and fight it outside of that area(guess ######## what 99% of the people have no ######### clue that this is a thing.. because nobody reads the event log.. for pve it's not a thing to have such mobility, and the rewards to do extra actions should be there.. rift warmoaner is the ONLY creature that forces you to consider such action, possibly champs/ogres at rifts before they attack everyone infront of them(guess what again.. most people have no clue orges do frontal aoe attacks), guess what.. whole fighting is bad as it is.. and there's no queue or way to fight certain things.. you want to make every single fight with a meek creature into a mess? are you joking dood? 

 

if you suggested change to chess.. you'd suggest 1 new move that is simple and wins the game, every time, and only your opponent can do it, at any time or half way throught the game(random rule, right(?).. makes it like it's legit thought through idea and rule) - there you lose; - no.. it's legit good idea, your opponent randomly picked to do this move and you have now lost the game, accept it, fun playing with you

 

 

INSANE, the "depth level of the suggestions" is just aggravating each time

 

As for fighting the troll, the fact that you have a strong character taking the hit and falling down would do less damage to you than to weaker players. And you would kill a troll even standing on the ground, so what's the problem?

 

Do you realize that by criticizing randomness you are criticizing the entire combat system in Wurm? 🙂
I don't like randomness either, but I didn't want to propose big changes, although I could, as removing randomness would make this game a lot better, but so large change probably is not going to happen.

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darnok

[Finnn 3,315]

you go play mc kid, I'd rather not, it's your game

 

that is stuff you rethink about.. and suggest as eventual unlocked extra functionality for level 50-70-90 or past that, as side possible actions from the menus.. also possible to quick/keybind just like foraging/botanizing/gardening/forestry gets 1-2-3-4 items at skill level 1-26-53-80; or at specific skill level you get option to select what you search for.. 

give the player control over it's actions

random events annoy people, random outcomes - normal or better are OK

[Darnok 208]

3 minutes ago, Finnn said:

you go play mc kid, I'd rather not, it's your game

 

that is stuff you rethink about.. and suggest as eventual unlocked extra functionality for level 50-70-90 or past that, as side possible actions from the menus.. also possible to quick/keybind just like foraging/botanizing/gardening/forestry gets 1-2-3-4 items at skill level 1-26-53-80; or at specific skill level you get option to select what you search for.. 

give the player control over it's actions

random events annoy people, random outcomes - normal or better are OK

 

I do not see a problem with the bonus of the number of found or extracted items. After all, if you kept the cursor in the center of the moving circle and gained 5x more forage/botanizing it could be 5x from the base value, so on a higher level you have base quantity * 5 + all bonuses resulting from high character level and 5x or 6x higher skill gain for single action, so your single character would level up faster than army of alts developed just by pressing single button all the time and queuing actions.
And you would be closer to getting rid of randomness and tons of low ql waste, because the minimum ql of items found by you would be higher (closer to max ql your skills allow you to find) thanks to your abilities and reflexes.

 

 

[Finnn 3,315]

22 minutes ago, Finnn said:

...guess what.. whole fighting is bad as it is.. and there's no queue or way to fight certain things.. you want to make every single fight with a meek creature into a mess? are you joking dood? ...

try to fight a champ turtle or hound, hell scorp, miss to hit it a few times and get bad rng to get hit a few times by such - that's giant troll nonsense as it is.. and it's in the game, you're 90+ MASTER IN FIGHTING SKILL, and you're a complete joke.. that's a stupid already; you're getting master tier ql 90 armor - guess what it's absolute trash as your fs and dodging abilities save you more than that 90ql compared to now the latest steam/epic armor change ql70 meta

skill and ql are not as rewarding as they should be - at all; that is existing meme, but we'll complain about suggestions to make things better in 2-5 years.. for now we're just enjoying the carefree lolz with how it is, because the bad and good from it are ok for the moment(and most people have no clue about the good and bad of it)

6 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Do you realize that by criticizing randomness you are criticizing the entire combat system in Wurm? 🙂

problem is.. you do not understand what I talk about.. you're not even playing wo or wu that much to know how the game works, and suggest things that can not stick to the game

lets leave it to that..

 

as to randomness.. it's not about wanting or not to fight that troll.. it's not giving you or me anything useful.. it's pointless to fight it, being trolled by a meek troll is stupidity to imagine, and will be close to how hellhorses unhitch from carts randomly, but here you suggest it to randomly happen as normal action every fight; to me.. it's just really annoying 3-5 seconds to kill it with 2-3 hits and get back on the cart/horse, but at this point I'm prevented from skipping the fight, and for what? I get nothing useful from this fight and I am forced into this interaction - why?

 

but.. to some other players might be the end of them if they can't move away from the troll fast enough, in addition, wurm have the thing where you can not LEAD a creature, and you can not ride a horse if you're fighting.. you're dooming everyone to die on the spot if they can not kill the creature

 

dood .. learn to play the game.. you're only suggesting memes, you're huge troll with these suggestions and you clearly lack any knowledge of the game you claim to play, you have absolutely no knowledge of basic things

[Finnn 3,315]

If you want new epic fights - give them to 90+ fs characters.. geared right, using only specific armor/enchants/runes/possibly new trinkets or w/e new gear... add new creatures.. give them mean actions.. give players counters, etc..

That's how you make things better over time.. you don't #### on existing content and make everybody lose their mind over nonsense changes that make things harder and give you no better returns; meanwhile you get a nerf with no benefit for the new struggle(?)

 

Does any of this make sense to you, does it sum up your suggestion well?

[Finnn 3,315]

19 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

I do not see a problem with the bonus of the number of found or extracted items. After all, if you kept the cursor in the center of the moving circle and gained 5x more forage/botanizing it could be 5x from the base value, so on a higher level you have base quantity * 5 + all bonuses resulting from high character level and 5x or 6x higher skill gain for single action, so your single character would level up faster than army of alts developed just by pressing single button all the time and queuing actions.
And you would be closer to getting rid of randomness and tons of low ql waste, because the minimum ql of items found by you would be higher (closer to max ql your skills allow you to find) thanks to your abilities and reflexes.

 

 

are you sure you're playing the same game when you post these things.. what reflexes for finding things..

[DaletheGood 1,073]

As with every suggestion from the OP, a big GTFOOHWTBS! You have gone from annoying to ridiculous to just being a troll. Go away!

[Darnok 208]

7 minutes ago, Finnn said:

are you sure you're playing the same game when you post these things.. what reflexes for finding things..

 

More effort greater reward, remember what I wrote before, the current system would not be removed.
 

Quote

Upgrading items, structures, vehicles etc can also be changed in such a way that the complexity increases and the repeatability decreases.
For example, upgrading items for ql 1-20 can be done with basic material (wooden shield requires wood) and one tool.
For 20-30 ql, wood will be required (it would be good if it was the same type that we used to create the shield) and two tools.
For 30-50 ql wood + 3 tools.
For 50-70 ql wood, metal (shield require ribbons to create) and 3 tools.
For 70+ ql wood, metal + 4 tools.

Although from what I wrote about improve items, I would change one thing. At 50-70ql, I would add some seasonal product instead of metal. So that the crafter has to stockpile this raw material in the right season or buy it.
For wooden products, soaking the item in olive oil should be part of the improvement process and would allow you to push quality above 50ql.
For metal items it could be using beef tallow (cattle production and high ql fat would matter), brine (high ql salt would be useful? but that wouldn't be seasonal) or rock oil (could be gathered from tar spots during summer and put into barrels, see Petroleum seep) on item to allow you push it over 50ql.

 

 

 

[Darnok 208]

38 minutes ago, Finnn said:

If you want new epic fights - give them to 90+ fs characters.. geared right, using only specific armor/enchants/runes/possibly new trinkets or w/e new gear... add new creatures.. give them mean actions.. give players counters, etc..

That's how you make things better over time.. you don't #### on existing content and make everybody lose their mind over nonsense changes that make things harder and give you no better returns; meanwhile you get a nerf with no benefit for the new struggle(?)

 

Does any of this make sense to you, does it sum up your suggestion well?

 

The idea of adding little variety when fighting different mobs is so bad? Ohh come one at the moment, PvE is fighting the same opponent, because the only difference between mobs is texture and FS level and I would like something more.

[Finnn 3,315]

at this point I'm sure you're incapable or reading or skimming is the only skill you've mastered after 'reading' the many negative feedbacks for your suggestion posts over the past year(s)

[Finnn 3,315]

27 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

More effort greater reward, remember what I wrote before, the current system would not be removed.
 

Although from what I wrote about improve items, I would change one thing. At 50-70ql, I would add some seasonal product instead of metal. So that the crafter has to stockpile this raw material in the right season or buy it.
For wooden products, soaking the item in olive oil should be part of the improvement process and would allow you to push quality above 50ql.
For metal items it could be using beef tallow (cattle production and high ql fat would matter), brine (high ql salt would be useful? but that wouldn't be seasonal) or rock oil (could be gathered from tar spots during summer and put into barrels, see Petroleum seep) on item to allow you push it over 50ql.

 

 

 

game is insanely slow paced and repulses new players to get into it as it is because of the micromanagement and slow progression, and you suggest playing for few months to get started?

"yes, you have cracked the case, that will make the game so fun and interesting to deal with" - actually the opposite..

 

Think about NEW things, don't break what currently works... add new mechanics(that do not break old ones)... add new features, build further, stop demolishing bridges to rebuild them in a worse way with lower tier mud because "it will be fun to start over".. - it is not

 

--edit

ok.. just read this...

 

Real world.. example.. you're suggesting RAISING THE TAXES to get the same thing, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND DO YOU THINK LIKES OR WANTS THAT?

BEST part is.. neither you or other win anything.. it's just a troll move in this case, and you somehow imagine it as being fun and 'good' suggestion improving *something* that is unexplainable..

Edited July 10, 2021 by Finnn

[Darnok 208]

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

game is insanely slow paced and repulses new players to get into it as it is because of the micromanagement and slow progression, and you suggest playing for few months to get started?

"yes, you have cracked the case, that will make the game so fun and interesting to deal with" - actually the opposite..

 

Think about NEW things, don't break what currently works... add new mechanics(that do not break old ones)... add new features, build further, stop demolishing bridges to rebuild them in a worse way with lower tier mud because "it will be fun to start over".. - it is not

 

You can't fix anything without removing the broken parts.

 

The belief that new players are quitting because the game does not allow them to advance quickly is your belief. In my opinion, they quit because the game has a lot of repetition, I suggest it to replace it by adding gradual complexity.
The second reason IMO is that at the start of the map veterans have the knowledge that allows them to start from zero to 100 ql at the speed of a racing car, and the new player has to learn a lot riding at donkey speed, they make mistakes and level up character, it takes time for new player to do simplest things. Therefore, the introduction of a natural slowdown, which are seasons, which even the best and most experienced veteran could not pass just because he knows more about this game, would level the odds a bit and reduce the distance between quality of products made by veterans and novice players.

Maybe there should be more than one such seasonal ingredient, slowing down the improvement of items, maybe two would be a better idea at the level of 40ql and 80ql.

If I am not mistaken the restriction to only wooden and metal tools, weapons and armors would slow down the production of everything at high ql. Alternatively, if you need to go further, you can add something like a board impregnated with olive oil, which would be required for the construction of more advanced structures and vehicles. And suddenly the most hated tree would be the most wanted 😄

Maybe trees over 80ql should only grow on players deeds (I know how trees ql works now).
Maybe the metal 80+ql should only be available from meteors (a few months ago I proposed adding a telescope and the possibility of observing/creating a meteor regardless of whether the priests chose to cast a spell or not) or only by purification with alchemy skill.
Maybe meat, fat, hides and pelts 80+ql should only be obtained from livestock with at least one positive trait or fed for several days with hay.

There are many solutions that can be used to diversify the game at higher level and reduce repetition. Repeating that any suggestion doesn't fits Wurm just means that the game cannot develop any further, because how is it supposed to develop if no change can be made? And a game that can't grow loses players and disappe... ohh wait.
 

 

1 hour ago, Finnn said:

 

ok.. just read this...

 

 

Real world.. example.. you're suggesting RAISING THE TAXES to get the same thing, WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND DO YOU THINK LIKES OR WANTS THAT?

BEST part is.. neither you or other win anything.. it's just a troll move in this case, and you somehow imagine it as being fun and 'good' suggestion improving *something* that is unexplainable..

 

No, I am suggesting to make things more interesting and fair. If the game becomes more interesting, and with more to offer, it will attract more players, so a larger community will be your reward.

If we play with the real world comparisons, if you don't raise taxes and get a bigger budget, for example for doctors salaries, doctors will go to another country, and what you will get from the fact that you have more money left in your wallet, if you don't have anyone cure the first disease you catch?
So what if the game seems simple to you now, if it does not attract more players and the costs of playing Wurm can only increase over time, and the reward from the MMO game is interactions with other players and mechanisms that favor it. Where is it all? Even leveling up in PvE fight goes faster alone than in a group, but shouldn't it be the other way around?

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Darnok