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Darnok

Darnok's gameplay and UX suggestions

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On 8/2/2021 at 1:12 AM, Darnok said:

The addition of New Land, which would be a map that SFI and NFI players can go to best via ships, can transport items to this map and their characters have no limitations on skill limit.
But they can't take anything from this map back to the NFI or SFI except their ship.

 

Trading with items would look like:

SFI --> New land <-- NFI

but silver earned would be used by everyone wherever they want.

 

I can see a few problems here that I haven't previously addressed.

  1. If you can't take back anything other than your ship, what happens to items that are in your ship? They are destroyed? They prevent you travelling? They are stored in limbo until you return?
    This is a significant development effort (with the attendant risk and cost) for a debatable benefit, and depending on which "solution" you choose, it will piss off players to a greater or lesser extent.
  2. Silver can be transported freely between NFI and SFI? I think that the silver present in SFI was one of the key arguments against merging the economies. Still, this is less technically problematic than attempting to prevent silver leaving the server, so there's that.

 

It feels weird and arbitrary. Items can move, but only one way. Ships are an exception. Are you trying to annoy people?

 

And don't get me started on the whole house-of-cards idea where it interlinks with other proposals that people don't want. 

Edited by Sheffie
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2 hours ago, Sheffie said:

Are you trying to annoy people?

Some people have a natural talent and don't really have to try.

😉

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7 hours ago, Sheffie said:

 

I can see a few problems here that I haven't previously addressed.

  1. If you can't take back anything other than your ship, what happens to items that are in your ship? They are destroyed? They prevent you travelling? They are stored in limbo until you return?
    This is a significant development effort (with the attendant risk and cost) for a debatable benefit, and depending on which "solution" you choose, it will piss off players to a greater or lesser extent.
  2. Silver can be transported freely between NFI and SFI? I think that the silver present in SFI was one of the key arguments against merging the economies. Still, this is less technically problematic than attempting to prevent silver leaving the server, so there's that.

 

1. It doesn't matter, any of ideas you mentioned would work, question is which one would be easiest to implement, in my opinion, plot course lock when you have items in ship cargo hold should be simplest.

2. I've seen people announce their willingness to trade silver between NFI and SFI on trade channel, so they should like this idea.

Fact that my idea would have allowed them to do so in very simple way, but you are right it would have merged both silver pools.

I do not know how much silver is on SFI and NFI and how much is on average per active player. It may turn out that those who are still active do not have enough that would disturb economy on NFI, where there are more players, so I can't tell if this silver-merge would be bad or irrelevant. There would also be flow in other direction, NFI people would use alts and their silver to buy deeds on unpopulated SFI maps.

 

If the Devs would decided that it would be better to prevent players from exchanging silver, it could be done in a very simple way and at same time it could raise prices of copper, silver and gold, because prices of last two metals are incredibly low.

 

You could easily block ability to exchange money between maps if players could make their own coins which would be an item-coin, like any other item in the game, a item-coin could not leave server.

Players could craft their own copper, silver and gold coins and pay deed upkeep on New land, of course metal itself would not be enough to create item-coin, you would have to craft both silver-metal and equivalent of 1 silver we now use as currency to craft "1 silver Sheffie coin" (because, for example, you would be able to name your currency), but this is a discussion on a different topic, maybe one day I will post it.

 

 

7 hours ago, Sheffie said:

It feels weird and arbitrary. Items can move, but only one way. Ships are an exception. Are you trying to annoy people?

 

The problem is not that something outside of you is annoying, but the problem is inside you, you get annoyed when you come across ideas so different from what you think is right that this meeting evokes emotions in you. And it's the same with many Wurm players, some have even become emotionally attached to pixels, textures or slopes.

It is fascinating that human brain has such capabilities, but they are completely unnecessary and interfere with proper assessment of situations and ideas, so for a while I suggest you turn off this part of brain and start thinking logically instead of emotions and attachments.

 

7 hours ago, Sheffie said:

And don't get me started on the whole house-of-cards idea where it interlinks with other proposals that people don't want. 

 

If you want to impose on me what arguments I can use in discussion, I can give up immediately, because with such rules I have no chance to win discussion.

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15 hours ago, Locath said:

 

As someone who owned one of the biggest deeds in Wurm's history (over 44k tiles), I think i understand that. What you don't understand is how vast the maps are. My deed didn't make a dent on the available tiles count.

 

But 10 of them can change a lot.

 

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This is a false statement.

People decide that Wurm isn't something for them rarely because of how it looks or works. Yes, there are problems and many things could be done better but if you try Wurm because some website suggested it as "similar" to this other game you played (for example Boundless), you are going to try it, realize that it has nothing to do with the genre you were hoping for and you'll leave.

 

So the exact reason is how Wurm works.

 

Quote

 

You can give it Cryengine 3 and make people's horses die in winter and make ships fall apart and, for completely logical reason which fits both of the above, make fallen trees never decay on deed (!) but a person who was looking for a game similar to Eco or Subnautica (both of which are suggested as similar to Wurm) is going to give the "free game" a try, no matter if during a land rush or not, and realize that this is a genre of its own.

 

Such a player will feel overwhelmed by the amount of things that are different from what he is used to in other games and things he doesn't know because game hides many features from him, no one knows why, every normal retailer shows the best features of his product to new consumer, while Wurm hides everything from new players so that they can only feel confused and develop more slowly.

 

Quote

And as such genre, it has a lot of mechanics which need to be learned before being judged.

 

Wrong, people will judge that learning something that is unknown and not knowing whether it is worth their time is pointless and will go and play something simpler.

 

 

Quote

 

People these days have problems with reading and that's fine but blaming the game's low population on the fact that vets have horses or that there isn't enough terrain/maps to go around (!) is not showing much thought or experience put in to such comments.

 

 


You wrote yourself that people ran away with Har and Mel because too many players in one place was a problem. I remember that before opening Cad on Mel it was hard to find free space for new deed, every hill was taken, how is something like this supposed to attract new players who are looking for a nice looking and resource rich space for their deed?

 

I am not saying that veterans taking over important resources are the only problem of the game, but that one of few problems, and it is certain that making start and development of new players more difficult will not bring many new players to Wurm, rather it will scare away more.

 

8 hours ago, Sheffie said:

Ah yes, the "Wurm is a zero sum game" theory.

 

Explain how people leaving a server makes that server less desirable, please, in terms of "zero sum game" theory.

 

I think you don't understand what you wrote. It is too many players on one map that makes this map, according to zero sum game, less attractive and not only I say so, read this whole thread.

 

Edited by Darnok

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^

Wurm's too big and old to implement a 'tutorial' teaching you to play it.. plus players do not play the game how it's intended.. they follow a meta when grinding, exactly because doing 1 thing is better than doing another..

 

Example.. farming pumpkins for 5-10 years wont give you pumpkin king(100 farming) title, doing the 'right' stuff.. will get you the title in half-1 year though.

 

You want to 'know the meta' without playing the game - that's not ########## possible!

Tell me 1 new kid playing PoE who's good at it? There's meta, builds, trendy gems/stats/items to sell with current hype builds and new features worth using.. rest is flat currency, but to make that you need to be market bot or know what's worth something more than other drops.

 

Similar in wurm.. but it's much simpler, no seasons and changing metas... you pick what you want to do.. because you like it.. or want to make coin for it(normally) or have some other reason to raise a skill.. and you go for it.. - ca-help / other people to get tips how to grind w/e you're after.. being skill or items.

 

As for the merger, we're probably far from it.. and whole pvp is not something that will bring people to use the connecting seas, if you haven't noticed it's mostly casual pve game.

Edited by Finnn

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Actually, "it feels weird and arbitrary" isn't about emotions at all. It's a convenient way of saying that speaking in my capacity as a game developer with professional experience going back to 1992, and other game design experience going back further than that, your idea is ######. People want a game world with a consistent and logical set of rules. Presenting them with rules that are capricious and unfair will generate resentment and alienation.

 

And telling people "stop hating my idea, your emotions are preventing you from assessing it properly" is never going to compensate for a badly thought out system design. 

 

 

Oh, and:

>It is too many players on one map that makes this map, according to zero sum game, less attractive and not only I say so, read this whole thread.

 

Once again, you have got things exactly backwards. Having more players makes Wurm maps more attractive, not less — and that is consistent with the idea that Wurm is not a zero sum game

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All active religion bonuses only work in conjunction with silver or gold altars.

 

Follower of any religion can sacrifice any ql gem:
- and mask in order to be able to get blessed mask that allows player to see in the dark for 24h, works only when the mask is equipped,

- and a gold or silver two rings and two compasses to receive two compasses (golden or silver) that will point each other. How you could use them probably does not need too much description.

I would add a function in conjunction with my other suggestion "Falconer", if two characters have paired compasses with them they can attach a message (paper or papyrus) to the bird's leg and the released bird will fly to the other character as messenger.

- and Brass oil lamp to get magic lamp which, when rubbed, summons a genie that grants one wish once in Wurm year. This wish may be to heal one wound of the player or animal immediately, or to heal the animal's disease. Or finding out distance (in tiles) to the nearest starting city or to a searched branded animal. Or filling pottery flask with liquid of your choice.

 

 

Fo

By sacrificing in altar any ql gem and wooden staff is given Hive control staff.
It can be used to transfer a hive from a wild bee hive to a bee hive made by the player, it can work only if the types of wood in staff, bee hive and wild bee hive tree are the same, then there is also no restriction that bee hive crafted by player must have higher ql than wild bee hive. It can be used once per staff.

Player can also use staff of control in such a way that bee swarm follows him for several hours (and as long as staff is equipped, when player changes weapon hive is gone) and attacks anyone who fights with the player.

Staff of Fo - If staff was made of gold bee swarm can attack target indicated by player from a distance, that is, swarm flies to target and attacks it, while player is during combat, but can not be used to transfer bees from wild hive.

 

Having a pet, player can sacrifice a gem and armor (chest part from a metal set, made of silver or gold), and then his pet gains additional resistance and shining eyes for as long as pet is alive (is not inherited). When it ceases to be a pet, it can be sold like any other animal.

 

Sickle of Fo - sacrificing gem and sickle from gold or silver, we get golden or silver sickle which can collect +1 more fruit/nut/etc during harvest, does not work for sprouts (and gives 2x skill gain).

Shield of Fo - sacrificing gem, golden ribbon and wooden shield creates a shield that allows to use focus and bash in single action.

 

Lib

By sacrificing in altar any ql gem, golden or silver weapons, cloth armor set and 50 kg of meat create a meat training dummy that allows you to practice combat up to a skill level of 30 and if armor set was over 40ql then up to 40 skill level.

If the armor set and meat was above 50ql, the dummy can become player's bloody pet with ~40 FS.

 

By sacrificing in altar any ql gem, golden or silver metal armor set and 80 kg of meat of same type create flesh armor (armor like iron man only with meat). The armor enlarges character and has its own health bar, which must first drop to zero before your character starts taking damage, but you cannot ride or drive vehicle in it. It can be used by anyone and a complete set must be worn for it to work. It is damaged very quickly in combat and cannot be repaired, but left on armor stand can slowly regenerate, losing a bit of ql. While wearing flesh armor, you cannot use any ranged weapons or throw any objects.

 

By sacrificing any ql gem and 2kg of gold and 200 kg of meat of one type, creates a bloody steed that can be ride. The horse decomposes after a few days. For every 10ql of gold, the horse will live 1 day longer (it can be sold like any other animal).

 

Butchering knife of Lib - sacrifice a gem and a gold or silver butchering knife to get a knife that increases the chance of getting more meat and other resources from an animal (2x skill gain).

Spear of Lib - after killing a scorpion, follower can receive it's "spine" tail chitin part along with poison and sting, when sacrifices it with a gold staff and gem will receive a chitin spear that poisons enemies on hit, and when thrown, can immobilize opponent, if he moves on foot, for a few seconds.

 

Mag

By sacrificing any ql gem, 1 kg of gold or silver and weapon, purifies metal from which weapon was made removing negative properties of metal (except for durability, this remains unchanged).

In order for it not to be too easy, creator of weapon must be character making sacrifice and character can only purify weapons of one type. When player makes sacrifice for the first time, game saves what type of weapon it is, and from now on purifying for this character will only work for this one type of weapon. Maybe it should be possible to reset after changing religion, for example.

 

Having a pet, player can sacrifice a gem and weapon (made of silver or gold), and then his pet gains additional damage and shining eyes for as long as pet is alive (is not inherited).

 

Pickaxe of Mag - sacrifice a gem and a gold or silver pickaxe to get a pickaxe that removes 2x stone shards from wall in one action (2x skill gain)

Maul of Mag - sacrifice a gem and a gold maul, gets a maul that has ability to bash. If it is a one-handed maul, bashing with a shield is twice as fast, but if it is a two-handed large maul, it allows to use bash as character would equip shield.

 

Vyn

By sacrificing any ql gem, 1 kg of gold or silver Vyn followers can purify metal armor part and shields by removing negative properties of the metals except for durability.

Each follower can purify only a specific part of armor or shield (for example if the first piece of armor you purify was a plate chest part then you are limited to that part only), just like it works for a Mag and weapon type.

 

By sacrificing any ql gem, 2kg of silver and horse statue, revives a stone horse that can be used like a normal mount. For every 10ql of silver, the horse will live 1 day longer (it can be sold like any other animal).

 

Hammer of Vyn - by sacrificing gold or silver hammer and gem, we get a hammer that adds two building materials to buildings and walls in single action (and gives 2x skill gain)

Shovel of Vyn - by sacrificing gold or silver shovel and a gem, we get a shovel that gives 2x dirt/sand/caly/etc for one action

Arrow of Vyn - by sacrificing a gem and 10-20 golden arrows, receives golden arrows that breaks the bow string after shot, but this golden arrow, regardless of whether it hits ground or hits enemy, creates an incredibly strong light source that blinds everyone around, and if it hits enemy's armor or shield damages this part to a great extent.

 

---

Additionally, if a player adds dragon blood when creating an enhanced pet for Fo or Mag and a horse for Vyn and Lib, the pet gets the "Fo / Mag favorite" trait, which gives him the opportunity to pass on special properties to his children.
In the case of bloody and stone horses, they become immortal, that is, they can die in battle, but they do not decay and do not age (still cannot reproduce).

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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Old, but still valid more clay and leather products please...

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