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Darnok

After many months of inactivity, a few suggestions...

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I haven't played for a few months and so far I am not going to change it, but I am checking changes on forums, the fact that they appear more often is a good change, but the donkeys are not going to fix few wrong assumptions of the game.

 

I remember several people argued with me that I was the only one complaining about some things, but I guess I was right many new and average players quit without complaining on the forum, which the more advanced players don't seem to understand. The declining population caused a decline in economic.

As I suggested months ago, a system in which items are virtually indestructible doesn't make sense in the long run because it only it destroys trade and without trade other players are enemies taking your resources even in PvE.

Items should be destructible (i.e. they shouldn't be repairable), a matter of rebalancing durability, and perhaps adding a feature that allows you to smelt a useless item back into resources.

 

Character statistics also affect the economy, the fact that every player to have a strong character must develop all skills not only makes each player strive for self-sufficiency but also kills the trade. Character skills and characteristics should be organized a bit differently, i.e. developing a few skills should be enough to build a character with high characteristics. Maybe each player should be able to choose a profession when creating a character and in this way individual characteristics would derive gain from the skills of a selected profession?

Each profession would have 7 or 14 skills (one or two skills for each characteristic), the development of which would increase the corresponding characteristics. The development of skills beyond the 7 or 14 would be possible, but it would be more difficult (slower) and would not develop the character characteristics any higher. Thus, players should have to rely on others and trade.

 

Another problem for trade is the availability of resources. Biomes are too small and you have to travel too short to collect everything you need, so we don't need to trade. If the biomes were larger and players had to travel longer, many would choose trade over long trips. Maps should be designed so that they have as few points as possible where all the resources are available, then the player who will control the area will have a good source of income. But there should be many such points with resources and they should be at large distances between each other to disperse players and give everyone a piece of the map to own.

 

Something that can discourage new players at this age of servers is a lot of inactive deeds with a lot of animals. Maybe if the deed has high density of animals, but the player is not very active, the animals should get sick? The less active the player and higher density, the disease should be more serious, which means that more animals should die very fast. This way, a many animals will be released for active/new players, but the inactive player will not lose everything he has, because at some point when the density of his animals is lower, they will stop getting sick.
It also seems to me that the starting cities should have some larger area where players cannot build anything, and even cannot modify the terrain, because after logging into the game for the first time at this stage of server development, the view is discouraging.


New players should start out with gear made mostly of bronze or copper. Then the promotion/development of copper->bronze-> iron-> steel would be better visible and the differences between tools and weapons made of better metals should be more visible.

Iron should be less available than copper and tin, after all, many civilizations in history started with bronze and then used iron. Unfortunately, it is impossible to make the iron deeper underground, but you can increase its melting temperature compared to bronze, in this way, for example, it would not be possible to melt iron without the use of coal or high-quality wood (the quality may affect the temperature that is obtained during combustion). A quality restriction can also be added for the forge so that a low-quality forge cannot melt the iron and heat the steel. Or add a new structure that is more difficult to build, but can be used to melt metals in higher temperatures.

The development of alchemy. The quality of metals has always been something strange to me, because in reality metal has the same quality, only the concentration of the metal and the impurities differ. Maybe it is worth developing the alchemy branch and adding the possibility of purification low ql metal, i.e. 20 ql contains only 20% of metal, and the rest are impurities. In this way, a skilled alchemist could purify 10 kg of iron at 20 ql and obtain 100 ql of iron from it, but only 2 kg or even less, depends on what the purification looks like. If it were chance he could get less. Although a more interesting solution would probably be to limit the ql obtained ql of the metal through the level skill. In this way, a poor miner (not everyone has to like it) could produce higher-quality metal for his needs by developing alchemy.
 

A new map each year, does not have to be big, but it would probably ensure constant activity of many players and attract new ones. In fact, what Wurm has the best to offer is the constant exploration of new areas and the search for new and most favorable places for temporary settlement and development. After some time, the repetition of all activities is so boring and costs of premium becomes so high, with zero growth economy, that forces many players to quit.

 

 

Edited by Darnok

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-1 These suggestions would not fit the game in its current nor future state. No new maps either. 

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While these suggestions would be good for some games, they just don't seem like a good fit for wurm. Also some of your ideas of wurm just seem wrong entirely. You do not need to have every skill max level to play wurm and enjoy wurm. I certainly do not, and I have been here for a very long time. Most players I know aren't maxed out in every skill. They work a certain set of skills, then they can use those skills to make items and trade them with other players who worked different skills. Say a 90ql blacksmithing tool for a 90ql weaponsmithing tool, or carpentry tool, whatever. In regards to your tool idea, having items that are destructible just seems like a bad idea. Lot's of players work hard to make and imp an item to rare, supreme or fantastic. Now after all those hours of imping, all those runes used to increase the chance, and all those failed rare rolls. Now your saying that this item that you worked so hard for is only going to last an x amount of days. What's the point of doing that? And in regards to smelting items. There is already a method in the game. It is called a smelting pot. If you spent more time playing the game you would know about this. In terms of biomes they vary. When I lived on Greymead there were resources that just weren't abundant in the area I lived. There was no marble, and very little slate in the area (and trust me I looked for it). However I had an overabundance of iron and sandstone. So I did have to travel to other areas to find slate and marble, and I did have to trade for these resources. In terms of changing iron around to be less abundant, that just seems impossible. There is already too much iron in the game, that all you would do is negatively effect all the newer players. This would just further increase the market for tools for newer players. The only part of this that I think would work well with Wurm would be the alchemy aspect. Being able to purify certain lumps to increase the quality, at the cost of some of the weight would be an interesting thing to add to wurm, and would be a cool addition to wurm.

 

You should play on SFI for a bit. Walk around to towns and talk to some of the wurm veterans. See what skills they are proficient in, how long they have played, etc. I am sure you will be surprised with the information you receive.

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-1 The playerbase in general doesn't yet understand the importance of priest restrictions for cooperative play. Myself included, for a very long time.

 

You cannot force that understanding on people by imposing even further restrictions, in the name of profiteering and RL historical precedent.

 

Locking accounts to certain skillsets would just create more need for alternate accounts.

Locking resources to localities would just create more need for 1 player to hold multiple deeds held by alts.

Edited by Drayka
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13 minutes ago, Gawain said:

-1 These suggestions would not fit the game in its current nor future state. No new maps either. 

 

Take a look at the big picture. A new map every year means that new or bored players have access to new content. At the same time, advanced players will not be able to control everything, because after 2-3 years it would be too much to play on several maps simultaneously.

 

I would also add the travel fee for every advanced character crossing for this new map. Maybe even characters on a certain level should pay all the time if they crossing to another map.


But I would combine it with modified idea from @Sindusk

Quote

Free accounts would not have limited skills on Epic. Instead, they would have half the skill gain rate and improvement rate of premium accounts. This allows players to experience the entirety of the game free at a reduced speed.

 

the modification would be that for each server the character from the free account levels up slower, but there is no skill limit. In this way, the devs would probably have a greater annualized profit than they currently have from a declining population.

 

I would add something, that I also wrote months earlier, i.e. new maps should have new resources, plants and animals that cannot be cultivated and bred on other/older maps, but can be used after someone transport them. This would stimulate ship traffic between maps and if the devs received a small fee for each transport it would be better than premium payment. Because a player who would choose to swim between maps with a payload would also receive a large profit.

 

If devs would also add storms, "sailing" skill and the possibility of losing the ship and its cargo (of course, before changing the map and before paying crossing fee), we would have a risky, but very profitable business for sailors.

 

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5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Take a look at the big picture. A new map every year means that new or bored players have access to new content. At the same time, advanced players will not be able to control everything, because after 2-3 years it would be too much to play on several maps simultaneously.

 

 

Still -1. Take a look at the deeper picture. There's already more content in this game than you can yet fathom. It's on you not to overlook it as worthless.

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16 minutes ago, brattygirl said:

 Lot's of players work hard to make and imp an item to rare, supreme or fantastic. Now after all those hours of imping, all those runes used to increase the chance, and all those failed rare rolls. Now your saying that this item that you worked so hard for is only going to last an x amount of days. What's the point of doing that?

 

Simple solution ... upgrading items can be sped up a little and all bonuses like rare can happen more often. From the point of view of the crafter, what would change is that there would be a greater demand for what he produces. How can you view this as a negative change?

 

16 minutes ago, brattygirl said:

 

And in regards to smelting items. There is already a method in the game. It is called a smelting pot. If you spent more time playing the game you would know about this.

 

I know you can, I just wanted to emphasize the fact that an item with zero durability shouldn't disappear, it would just become unusable. Runes, or any special reinforcements, could also be removed from it, if you have properly developed skills.

 

16 minutes ago, brattygirl said:

 This would just further increase the market for tools for newer players.

 

If new players would need a low ql item, this is an advantage in my opinion. Because it means players with moderate skill would have a market for their goods. At the moment, everyone wants an item with the highest ql, because even if it is slightly damaged, it will repair it a few times and it will be better than using the tool from medium level. But if the tools were to deteriorate and you would have to buy new ones every time, average players might not be so eager to invest in high ql if they do not use it optimally. What would further drive the market for a ql-level tool with the most players on the server not just for highest there is available and this should limit the pursuit of the fastest leveling possible, because if I am the first, I will flood the market with my products.

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11 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Take a look at the big picture. A new map every year means that new or bored players have access to new content. At the same time, advanced players will not be able to control everything, because after 2-3 years it would be too much to play on several maps simultaneously.

 

We had the steam release with a new "land rush". But the content was the same. Now people are leaving those servers. 

It wasn't that much of a fresh start really since the vets (as predicted) cornered the market in every aspect : skillgain, breeding, imping, priests (the channeling "exploit"?), etc. 

 

As an Epic player recently said "there is no more fresh start in Wurm". There are way too many vets that whatever server you'll open they'll bring their knowledge of the game and use that to have an advantage over everyone else. 

 

Now if by content, you mean , "release seasonal servers, each with their own gimmicks, like having an island filled with nothing trolls and the only armor you can craft is cloth"....then yeah sure. Would love a Wurm survival experience. 

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23 minutes ago, Drayka said:

 

Still -1. Take a look at the deeper picture. There's already more content in this game than you can yet fathom. It's on you not to overlook it as worthless.

 

It's true that the game has a lot of content, but ... a large part of it is useless, e.g. metals, with the current system iron, steel, gold or silver are enough. Other metals are not used in most of the time, and if they are it is forced by the fact that there are one or two products that require something other than iron for construction. What is brass used for?

 

There are several religions, but just a few months ago more than 80% of players on the PvE map were of only one religion, so what are the other religions for if they don't provide enough benefits to encourage players?

There are ships, but how often do players use them?

You yourself mentioned something about priests that require from you to create a second character because a priest has many limitations, and at the same time you say that choosing a profession and creating multiple characters would be a bad idea. Some players use the alt army anyway.

Edited by Darnok

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26 minutes ago, elentari said:

We had the steam release with a new "land rush". But the content was the same. Now people are leaving those servers. 

It wasn't that much of a fresh start really since the vets (as predicted) cornered the market in every aspect : skillgain, breeding, imping, priests (the channeling "exploit"?), etc. 

 

As an Epic player recently said "there is no more fresh start in Wurm". There are way too many vets that whatever server you'll open they'll bring their knowledge of the game and use that to have an advantage over everyone else. 

 

Now if by content, you mean , "release seasonal servers, each with their own gimmicks, like having an island filled with nothing trolls and the only armor you can craft is cloth"....then yeah sure. Would love a Wurm survival experience. 

 

New players have left because after a certain level Wurm gets super boring, although some say the opposite is true and with 90ql tools the game is better, I had tools of this level and didn't see anything more interesting than when I used 40ql tools.

And the problem of veterans controlling everything exists precisely because new areas will appear in the game so rarely, if they appeared more often, at some point the ability to master the market or a resource-rich area would collapse.
 

Like any MMO, at some point the player reaches the wall where new content ends and boredom begins, but Wurm is quite unique because it can offer players new content that is already implemented and may from time to time give new maps that players will want to visit. The dispersion of players is not a problem, because there are mailboxes and ships that can carry large loads of cargo. At the moment, the ships are more of a decoration, because you can move faster on land, so the devs have prepared some content, but they cannot convince the players to use that content more often.

For example, recently donkeys have been added, if they only spawned on one map, e.g. on Melody, what would the players from Cad and Har do?
Wurm already has a lot of content and mechanisms that could allow it to increase its attractiveness and attract new players, but for some reason it does not take advantage of this.

Edited by Darnok
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Darnok is very much RIGHT in his suggestions and what he see's the game as stagnate. I quit playing WURM Online because there is NO BALANCE anyone can be a jack of all trades. In the past it was suggested to have Professions that could be chosen and limit how characters could skill up in all skills to 100. Also the economy is so broken it is not even funny. It was also suggested a level cap on weapons and armor so lesser skilled toons could make and sell stuff without competing with veteran toons with 70 plus skills. It was also suggested adding in more rare resources and charging fees for ships crossing servers and such. Same with alts and deeds, limit the number of Alts or deeds you could own. Some people would still try to find a way around that but, and I hate to say the word Ban, but getting caught with multiple alts to have deeds on multiple servers would be a way to deal with that. WURM has so much potential, yet many Veterans and even the DEVs cannot see past their BLINDNESS.  WURM needs somebody with vision, and somebody not afraid to try new things. When the Northern Isles came out, the number of new players was so great they had to release new maps almost Immediately. Since then that population has DWINDLED, down to less than 900ish, from well over 2K, might have been more, haven't checked to see if I can see farther back on Niarja. Same with the DEVs stopping updates for WURM Unlimited, I think that should change Immediately. Many great mods have been developed by community members and the DEVs are blind not to see and support these community members who do great works on their own and share that work. Oh and it was suggested to have maybe Dungeon Crawl Servers with Quests and rewards like Jackal that many considered a failure. Jackal was an interesting Idea that should be brought back, and tried again with some re-working.

 

So to all the nay Sayers and -1 comments who themselves cannot see the deeper picture, I say to you, take off your blinders and WAKE UP. You under estimate the need for these changes as you huddle behind your walls and are afraid of change that will be GREAT for WURM Online and Unlimited.

 

I have spoken

Edited by ArthurHawkwing
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3 minutes ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

Darnok is very much RIGHT in his suggestions and what he see's the game as stagnate. I quit playing WURM Online because there is NO BALANCE anyone can be a jack of all trades. In the past it was suggested to have Professions that could be chosen and limit how characters could skill up in all skills to 100. Also the economy is so broken it is not even funny. It was also suggested a level cap on weapons and armor so lesser skilled toons could make and sell stuff without competing with veteran toons with 70 plus skills. It was also suggested adding in more rare resources and charging fees for ships crossing servers and such. Same with alts and deeds, limit the number of Alts or deeds you could own. Some people would still try to find a way around that but, and I hate to say the word Ban, but getting caught with multiple alts to have deeds on multiple servers would be a way to deal with that. WURM has so much potential, yet many Veterans and even the DEVs cannot see past their BLINDNESS.  WURM needs somebody with vision, and somebody not afraid to try new things. When the Northern Isles came out, the number of new players was so great they had to release new maps almost Immediately. Since then that population has DWINDLED, down to less than 900ish, from well over 2K, might have been more, haven't checked to see if I can see farther back on Niarja. Same with the DEVs stopping updates for WURM Unlimited, I think that should change Immediately. Many great mods have been developed by community members and the DEVs are blind not to see and support these community members who do great works on their own and share that work. 

 

So to all the nay Sayers and -1 comments who themselves cannot see the deeper picture, I say to you, take off your blinders and WAKE UP. You under estimate the need for these changes as you huddle behind your walls and are afraid of change that will be GREAT for WURM Online and Unlimited.

 

I have spoken

 

If you want it for Wurm Unlimited, feel free to go mod it. That's what I understand Unlimited to be there for, so that people who want to play Wurm completely differently are licensed to go create their own version of the game, and run their own independent community, and try to outcompete Online for popularity.

 

If you want this massive change, go create it. Stop saying it's someone else's responsibility because you aren't empowered to do so. If you're so awake, so enlightened, so brimming with vision, go act on it. Band together and create an Unlimited server cluster.

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Darnok you are wasted on the forums - you should be in politics! ;) 

 

A lot of your ideas are based on actual real world practises, and would therefore have merit in an accurate simulation or a more industrial themed application, but I think in all honesty the real world is exactly what many of us come to Wurm to escape.

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big -1 to Darnok. Just NO. And not interested in matching your wall of text with anything other than that. Too many bad ideas to even start.

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1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

It's true that the game has a lot of content, but ... a large part of it is useless, e.g. metals, with the current system iron, steel, gold or silver are enough. Other metals are not used in most of the time, and if they are it is forced by the fact that there are one or two products that require something other than iron for construction. What is brass used for?

 

There are several religions, but just a few months ago more than 80% of players on the PvE map were of only one religion, so what are the other religions for if they don't provide enough benefits to encourage players?

There are ships, but how often do players use them?

You yourself mentioned something about priests that require from you to create a second character because a priest has many limitations, and at the same time you say that choosing a profession and creating multiple characters would be a bad idea. Some players use the alt army anyway.

 

You speak as one who feels they have experienced all that Wurm has to offer, and found it to be inconsistent, insufficient and defective.

6-7 years ago I stopped playing Wurm. Last year I came back, and decided to play it differently than I had before. And because I did, a lot of things that were hidden from me have not only become visible, but self-evident and clearly essential.
 

I am now a priest main, and I do have alts, though I didn't create them originally to get around the restrictions, but to explore other aspects of playing. I log them in less as I am starting to get the hang of Wurm, as I feel it was meant for ME to play it. As I find the right place in the community for me, and gain confidence in that.

 

Because the mechanics are only 10% of this game. And those bare mechanics still offer more opportunities to the average player, than RL does.

 

Maybe I will use my alts more in future. Who knows. But it won't be because I am discontent with the mechanics and limitations applied to my main account. It will be because there is so MUCH in this game, that just 1 account isn't enough for me anymore to have the full Wurm experience. Not the bare mechanics, the entirety that is this sandbox experience. There is SO much more to this game, than that which can be measured in an account's stats and skills, achievements, balances and digital possessions.

 

This is Wurm, and I've only just begun to discover what has always been on offer to all of us.

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5 hours ago, Darnok said:

I haven't played for a few months and so far I am not going to change it,

 

This got me to stop reading

why come with suggestions when not playing I dont understand 

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3 minutes ago, Maiya said:

This got me to stop reading

why come with suggestions when not playing I dont understand 

 

lol!

 

"Should auld acquaintance be forgot, and never brought to mind..."

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1 hour ago, ArthurHawkwing said:

there is NO BALANCE anyone can be a jack of all trades

First of all, I don't get this at all. When everyone can do everything, how's that not balanced? :P

 

Many suggestions for new maps here almost every month; only way I can support this is Jackal-like instances. New map, for certain period to explore and do whatevers, then closed and recycled.

 

Next, I don't fully understand the point about "control over resources". What is there to control, really? Iron, wood, dirt/sand, clay, rock. That's pretty much all you need for full Wurm experience. If you want to privatize a resource (which is what you will get with the biomes and limited areas plan), then no thank you.

Also, why you all trying to force me to trade? I don't want to trade. I want to dig my own dirt, plant my own potatoes and chip my own bricks, g'daymit!

However, here's a thought for you, if you want more value in trades. Slower skill gains. There, I said it, now think about it.

Sure, it won't fix existing skills, but short of complete wipe, nothing will.

 

To limit deeds and alts in one or different servers, I see no reason for that. Me having one giant place in Xanadu or three smaller deeds in various other servers, how's that disturbing your or any random persons game?

And just to say, I kind of only live in Xana anyway, but imagine if I was actively traveling between Xana and Indie; and one day you take away my Indie deed, why would I ever want to travel again?

 

The best suggestion I kind of agree with, is to increase the item and resource "waste", in some way. Some combination of critical QL loss or item damage, which breaks your rare pickaxe's handle and you'd have to "remake" it. Potentially losing the rarity and yes, I do think rare items should not be permanent and should have a risk of rarity loss or worse.

 

 

Anyhow. If one doesn't enjoy this game and has quit and has no plans to return to the game _as it is_ then maybe, instead of trying to remake this game, find one that is what you want... It's like standing at the door of a 21+ club, demanding the people working there to dress up properly so that you could get in :D

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11 minutes ago, Shmeric said:

The best suggestion I kind of agree with, is to increase the item and resource "waste", in some way. Some combination of critical QL loss or item damage, which breaks your rare pickaxe's handle and you'd have to "remake" it. Potentially losing the rarity and yes, I do think rare items should not be permanent and should have a risk of rarity loss or worse.

 

There are items in this game that cannot be repaired. To counteract that, there is Vyn Mend. Does PvE need more Vyn priests? Because putting permadecay on all items would increase the demand for them exponentially.

Edited by Drayka

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1 hour ago, Drayka said:

There are items in this game that cannot be repaired. To counteract that, there is Vyn Mend. Does PvE need more Vyn priests? Because putting permadecay on all items would increase the demand for them exponentially.

Not necessarily more Mend items. Just breaking the item into pieces, as the pickaxe example I had - handle breaks off, you're left with pickaxe head, and you'd have to remake it. What happens with rarity, enchants, runes, imbues, that's all details TBD. But it would need imping again, and even that'd be a step towards more active market and services (hopefully).

 

Fishing rods are kind of good example. Modular design. It's not one single item, but made of pieces. And those pieces can and will break individually and recreating or repairing requires different skills. Not just fine carpentry, as the old rods we had; now if string breaks, you need ropemaking. Smithing for metal hooks, and etc.

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A newbie asked me recently if they could disassemble the things they had made for grinding skill. And I don't see why scavenge and salvage shouldn't be mechanics in their own right, especially with archaeology mechanics already in play.

 

If an item broke into fragments at 100 damage, instead of 'crumbling to dust' that could be interesting.

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1 hour ago, Maiya said:

This got me to stop reading

why come with suggestions when not playing I dont understand 

 

I like when people with a different view do not have arguments and do not hide it 😉
 

Because I was playing and I can see what problems the game has.

Several hundred players quit because I was right a few months ago and I am right today. To attract new players, the game has to change, new textures are not enough, you have to change some basic elements of the game so that the modern player considers it worthy of attention. Solutions that were good 15 years ago are no longer as good as old players think they are. Tens of thousands of sandbox and open world fans are there around the world, but they give up Wurm, not because you are all right, but because you are all wrong.

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2 hours ago, Drayka said:

 

You speak as one who feels they have experienced all that Wurm has to offer, and found it to be inconsistent, insufficient and defective.

6-7 years ago I stopped playing Wurm. Last year I came back, and decided to play it differently than I had before. And because I did, a lot of things that were hidden from me have not only become visible, but self-evident and clearly essential.
 

I am now a priest main, and I do have alts, though I didn't create them originally to get around the restrictions, but to explore other aspects of playing. I log them in less as I am starting to get the hang of Wurm, as I feel it was meant for ME to play it. As I find the right place in the community for me, and gain confidence in that.

 

Because the mechanics are only 10% of this game. And those bare mechanics still offer more opportunities to the average player, than RL does.

 

Maybe I will use my alts more in future. Who knows. But it won't be because I am discontent with the mechanics and limitations applied to my main account. It will be because there is so MUCH in this game, that just 1 account isn't enough for me anymore to have the full Wurm experience. Not the bare mechanics, the entirety that is this sandbox experience. There is SO much more to this game, than that which can be measured in an account's stats and skills, achievements, balances and digital possessions.

 

This is Wurm, and I've only just begun to discover what has always been on offer to all of us.

 

You overestimate the amount of content in this game, but even if you were right, the fact that someone did not know every super hidden mechanism (moreover, things that discourage people from playing, the modern player likes to plan character development, how he can do it if the game hides many important elements from him?) does not mean that he misunderstands basic issues such as economics or character development and what are the consequences of such solutions. And the consequences can be seen, almost a year ago there were many new players, how many have survived in the game until today? From the group that started out on Melody, Cad or Har?

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2 minutes ago, Darnok said:

Several hundred players quit because I was right a few months ago and I am right today.

i mean literally anyone could have guessed that a newly launched mmo server would lose players over time because that's happened in 100% of mmo launches due to hype dying down. you could argue that they quit because there's no glocks in the game and you speak for the silent minority who feel this way. I don't think i've ever seen any posts by you that would make newbies magically want to stay around

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3 hours ago, Muse said:

Darnok you are wasted on the forums - you should be in politics! ;) 

 

A lot of your ideas are based on actual real world practises, and would therefore have merit in an accurate simulation or a more industrial themed application, but I think in all honesty the real world is exactly what many of us come to Wurm to escape.

 

The real world solution works in many cases, the solutions from different MMOs are some kind of fantasy that after a while causes the economy to collapse and the reluctance of players, so some may enjoy paying a subscription for a single-player game played remotely on the server, but this is not something I am looking for 🙂

 

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