Ficik

Explorer's Guild - Cadence Map

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Posted (edited)

Explorer's Guild

Cadence Map

[Beta]

http://wurm.crazykrewe.net

If you want to hide the location of your deed, let me know.

 

This is an "interactive" map.

After you register, you can add new deeds (more to come) you find on your travels. After someone adds a new marker, it is hidden under the "Show voting" button, where registered users can vote whether the information is correct.

This way, the map should be more dynamic and up to date with current events on the server.

Let's get exploring!

 

Planned features:

- Voting to remove deeds.

- Highways and tunnels.

- Towers

- Different servers in case there is a demand.

 

Bit of backstory:

When looking at the community map, I got annoyed at how outdated and empty it is. Having one person updating all the maps is not optimal.

Also with the rule that you can only add your own deeds, and towers, it can never be too great. Some people do not know the map exists, and therefor can't add their deed even if they wanted, some don't care and some don't want to bother with registering and posting.

That is why I think this way, where a bunch of explorer's can keep the map updated, is much better. Also it is going to be opt-out instead of opt-in, making it more accurate.

Edited by Ficik
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So you gonna force deed owners that dont want to be on a map to be on yours?

 

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Maiya said:

So you gonna force deed owners that dont want to be on a map to be on yours?

 

No, I can still remove deeds that owners don't want on the map.

But it should work more like real life maps, if a google street view car drives by your house, it will be on the map because they "discovered" it. And if the house owner doesn't like it, they can get it removed.

You don't ask every village if it wants to be on the map, you just hide the area 51s and such.

Edit: Not being on a map actually brings more players there, that are looking for an empty spot. Maybe that's the opposite of what people, that don't want their deeds on maps, want.

Edited by Ficik
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Yes I too want a map with all deeds on 

BUT

I also know on every server there is alot of deed-owners that dont want to be on maps, 

and that we have to respect

Another BUT

I dont see any reson to a deed-owner should need to keep track of maps and ask to be taken off 

I prefer that those that want to be on a map they ask to be there  

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1 hour ago, Maiya said:

I dont see any reson to a deed-owner should need to keep track of maps and ask to be taken off 

 

This kind of reminds me the plot of hitchiker's guide to the galaxy.

 

I think there is better potential to the exploration in wurm and not using precise maps is also kind of role-play-ish.

But the tools in game and the community map do not help this too much.

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Maiya is absolutely right.  Players should not be required to opt out.  The burden should be on *you* to obtain consent from mayors before publishing a deed's location.  The majority of Cad deed owners will not even see this thread, and will have no idea that you've taken it upon youself to make their location public without their consent. 

 

There are plenty of reasons people don't want their deeds on a community map.  One is that if a player takes a break from the game, gets distracted by RL and forgets to add upkeep and the deed falls, other players will consult the map the moment the disband is announced, head over, and grab everything that is not nailed down.  If someone wants to try and avoid this type of situation by keeping their location private (or if they have other reasons for their decision), that is their prerogative.  Please don't mess with it.

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This is a terrible idea.  Many of us prefer to keep our deeds private and this proposal infringes on those players wishes.  Opting out is a ridiculous feature and this proposal should be stopped before it gets started.  

 

-1

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I'm taking the hint that wurm players don't like fun, and won't be developing it further.

Edit: I might be developing it but at a slower speed

Edited by Ficik
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Posted (edited)

Love the concept and would definitely love to see a live map of literally everything in the game, but it does seem people want to be asked first rather than be responsible to ask you. So I'm not sure how something like this could be accomplished. The weird thing to me though is that there are plenty of people who report other deeds, roads, etc. on the other community maps already. Look forward to see how this project turns out as it at least feels like a better map system than the current. My vote is still to make a Cartography skill and allow us to make live maps ingame. All 3rd party resources should find their way into the game somehow at some point.

 

Edit: Potentially it would be okay to put deeds on the map if they are connected to the main highway since that's already kind of opting in to publicity. 

Edited by Zuelatak
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Posted (edited)

This needs to be limited to only deeds that are your own or are highway connected. If it's not highway connected, you either ask the owners if that's ok or you just don't add it.

 

There's a lot of people who wish their privacy to be respected, and you can not justify it by saying they can opt out, if they never agreed to use the service in the first place.

 

If it's an issue of finding your way around, put landmarks instead, or an overlay of types of forests so people can navigate that way.

 

Oh also I opt out of having The Lakeside, Lakeside Estates, For Peat's Sake, The Lakeside Farms added to this map as I do not agree with the methodology behind it.

 

Edited by Pingster
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Marking a point on the map as occupied, without connecting it to player names or anything else is no different than marking a road or a lake and it's beneficial for the rest of the community.

 

When looking for a place to start a deed, the obvious first step most people would take is to consult the public maps to find (ideally) the most accurate and up to date info about where would be a good place to look. An empty spot on the map looks like a good place to start. Spend some hours to travel there, only to find that there was a deed there after all. Now you've wasted your time and the map hasn't served its purpose.

 

Some people choose not to submit their info, but plenty of people just can't be bothered. If maps are opt-in only, they will always be incomplete and outdated, and that makes them effectively useless, especially for new players trying to figure out where they can settle.

 

If a few people want to insist on keeping their locations off the maps, then they should be required to opt-out. It's ridiculous to expect the rest of the community to take up the extra effort and deal with incomplete maps just to accommodate a few selfish individuals.

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Posted (edited)

The map doesn't seem to be taking off, so there is no need to panic.

 

But I find it ironic that people want to play the "Online" version of the game but want privacy and to isolate themselves. There once was a different version of the game for that and it is cheaper to play.

 

One thing about opt in systems is, that the user should prove that they are the owner of the deed, I doubt this is done on the official community map and thus invalidates many of the arguments against this map.

Also, who is responsible for removing deeds of people that stopped playing? Some people would maybe report these as being gone, but maybe they are scared of doing so because it is not their deed and they are scared of being banned. This makes the map from inaccurate to outdated which is much worse and less usefull.

 

Quote

Marking a point on the map as occupied, without connecting it to player names or anything else is no different than marking a road or a lake and it's beneficial for the rest of the community.

 

This sounds like a really good idea

 

Edited by Ficik
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Posted (edited)

And because there is nothing better to do on sunday afternoon, other than coding, I added voting to remove deeds that were disbanded.

http://wurm.crazykrewe.net/removeVoting.jpg (Inserting images doesn't seem to work)

Edited by Ficik
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8 hours ago, Vorticella said:

If a few people want to insist on keeping their locations off the maps, then they should be required to opt-out. It's ridiculous to expect the rest of the community to take up the extra effort and deal with incomplete maps just to accommodate a few selfish individuals.

Why would you require people to keep on top of forums just to see if new maps are being made... What reason they may have for not wanting their location to be revealed is up to them and not for you to decide. They pay money for the spot, and that's their choice. If they want to be accessible to everyone, they'll connect to highway and then that should be fair game as anyone can go there anyway by using the network.

 

If anything, it's selfish to assume that it's your right to put everyone's deed on the map regardless of owner's wishes and use a weak excuse of "they can go on forums and opt out" when you're forcing them to opt in to something they may have no idea of existing or have any interest of being part of.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Pingster said:

Why would you require people to keep on top of forums just to see if new maps are being made... What reason they may have for not wanting their location to be revealed is up to them and not for you to decide. They pay money for the spot, and that's their choice. If they want to be accessible to everyone, they'll connect to highway and then that should be fair game as anyone can go there anyway by using the network.

 

If anything, it's selfish to assume that it's your right to put everyone's deed on the map regardless of owner's wishes and use a weak excuse of "they can go on forums and opt out" when you're forcing them to opt in to something they may have no idea of existing or have any interest of being part of.

 

Nobody forces you to keep your deed on or take it off the maps, but when you require opt-in you do force the rest of the community to live with incomplete, outdated, useless maps. That's all there is to it.

Edited by Vorticella
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13 hours ago, Pingster said:

Why would you require people to keep on top of forums just to see if new maps are being made... What reason they may have for not wanting their location to be revealed is up to them and not for you to decide. They pay money for the spot, and that's their choice. If they want to be accessible to everyone, they'll connect to highway and then that should be fair game as anyone can go there anyway by using the network.

 

If anything, it's selfish to assume that it's your right to put everyone's deed on the map regardless of owner's wishes and use a weak excuse of "they can go on forums and opt out" when you're forcing them to opt in to something they may have no idea of existing or have any interest of being part of.

 

I like maps to be working the same as in real world, because that is what makes the most sense.

Government around the world have to go through hoops to hide their secret bases from satellite images, because it's against what maps are for.

Why should maps in wurm be any different?

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4 hours ago, Ficik said:

 

I like maps to be working the same as in real world, because that is what makes the most sense.

Government around the world have to go through hoops to hide their secret bases from satellite images, because it's against what maps are for.

Why should maps in wurm be any different?

 

Because what you like doesn't matter when it comes to affecting other players. This game is not real life and does not follow the same rules as real life. It has clearly been explained to you why it is a bad idea and you keep trying to argue the same point over and over.

 

I personally put myself on the map because I do a lot of trading but if I had to opt out of this stupid idea because I wanted privacy it could easily take a couple of weeks for me to even notice I was on this map. The vast majority of players are not active (or even get on the forums to begin with) on the forums, that is why this map should be different from a real life map.

 

Fun for a few is not worth the annoyance of the many.

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8 minutes ago, Kellen said:

Fun for a few is not worth the annoyance of the many.

 

How do you know you are not the few?

It's usually the minority that is most vocal

 

9 minutes ago, Kellen said:

 

Because what you like doesn't matter when it comes to affecting other players.

 

 

This way you just turn it around, now those people are affecting us, because they like to not be on maps.

 

This is why I don't change my arguments, because yours are mostly non-arguments.

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17 minutes ago, Ficik said:

How do you know you are not the few?

It's usually the minority that is most vocal

 

You don't get to assume everyone in the game agrees with you just because they aren't posting in this thread. With that logic, you should be in the majority since you seem to believe everyone frequents the forums enough to opt out of your map. Based on this thread so far, you are clearly in the minority for something like this.

 

21 minutes ago, Ficik said:

 

This way you just turn it around, now those people are affecting us, because they like to not be on maps.

 

This is why I don't change my arguments, because yours are mostly non-arguments.

 

Private deeds don't affect you in the slightest. If you're building a highway purely based off a community map and not exploring the path in-game you're an idiot. If you travel to a place where you want to settle down and make your own deed but you find a deed there, settle nearby. The maps do not have enough landscape detail to determine an exact location to settle.

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Posted (edited)

I think that by default in game map we should be able to see all deeds.

 

 

Edited by Darnok
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42 minutes ago, Kellen said:

Private deeds don't affect you in the slightest

 

Private deeds themselves are a minor inconvenience because they appear as an empty spot on the map, so it's just not true that they don't affect other people, but the argument isn't about whether or not people should have private deeds. It's about basing the entire community map system on the assumption that people by default want their locations kept secret.

 

This means that every single deed owner is expected to make the effort of submitting their location data on the forums and keeping it updated, whether they care about the maps or not. There are a lot of people who just aren't interested, or aren't aware that they should do this, never get around to it, or maybe prefer not drawing attention to themselves by making an announcement in a public forum. If a player doesn't engage with this system, the assumption is that they actively do not want to be on the maps so their deed location is never added. 

 

I don't care about people wanting private deeds, but assuming that everyone who doesn't make the effort to add their location actively wants to stay off the maps is wrong, and the result is that the entire community is missing out on having complete and updated (aka useful) maps.

 

If you as an individual want to do something that inconveniences the community as a whole, you should be the one putting in the extra effort to do so.

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@FicikThank you for doing this. Maps should be based on "Hey I found something at this location". Ideally Wurm would just document it all and release a map but they don't. Thus, something like this is the next best thing. I hope you ignore the naysayers and realize they can't stop you.

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18 hours ago, Kellen said:

 

The vast majority of players are not active (or even get on the forums to begin with) on the forums, that is why this map should be different from a real life map.

 

 

17 hours ago, Kellen said:

 

You don't get to assume everyone in the game agrees with you just because they aren't posting in this thread.

 

 

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