Madnath

Stealthed accounts don't get slay loot

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Posted (edited)

Just like the title says, it'd really help to ease player paranoia and help keep slayings fair if stealthed accounts in local range of the slay don't get loot from any unique slayings. I can't really think of any downsides to this, and it'd certainly stop any possible calls for a GM to come and take action against someone if you ride past someone and they unstealth.

 

For those not aware, if you're stealed near a private slaying of a unique, you will get loot you're not meant to get. Nobody advertises the location of a unique slay, and if someone lives private, in the past I've found they're usually invited if they're online at the time.

Just because you "travelled there" or whatever doesn't mean you get to crash it.

If you host a party and make a Facebook event for your friends to be able to organise things and times, does that mean it's an open invitation for everyone to join up and crash it? Of course not. Crashing these slays is against game rules, and until a "solution" is done to make uniques different, we should be making steps to prevent exploiting and abusing the system. You don't get to pick and choose which rules don't fly in this game.

Edited by Madnath
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What a stupid rule in a first place, how about they disable dragons untill they come up with mechanic that makes sense and works as intended in a first place. Or lets just call for a GM even for those that happen to live  on their deedfor years nearby the unique that just spawned and beign killed

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Posted (edited)

As per the current rules only participants that are allowed by the finder are legit to be in local and get drops when a slaying happens so I agree totally. Another move to decrease load on GMs and drama also.

EDIT: I see little chance that a legit player on a nearby deed just plays stealthed....

Edited by Jaz
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+1

A multitude of reasons would lead me to support this endeavour, a list that would stretch three whole debates. 

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10 minutes ago, Jaz said:

As per the current rules only participants that are allowed by the finder are legit to be in local and get drops when a slaying happens so I agree totally. Another move to decrease load on GMs and drama also.

EDIT: I see little chance that a legit player on a nearby deed just plays stealthed....

I mean, it's just a writen rule not enofrced by mechanic that may or may not change and only apply on pve servers. And legimacy of anyone's presense on his deed or anywhere on undeeded spot, anywhere on any server in this so called sandbox game shouldn't be questioned by anyone, but oh well. Also agree,  it could avoid someone stressing out

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Really? The trouble with unique slayings is that they aren't elitist enough?

 

Here's an idea. If you are in the business of trapping uniques and dictating who gets the loot, and you don't want people in Local, then don't tell them where the slaying is.

Then, anyone who happens to live next door... well, they got lucky. Live with it. Or try harder next time, and trap the unique somewhere more remote. Or accept that you can't control literally everything.

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2 minutes ago, Tor said:

I mean, it's just a writen rule not enofrced by mechanic that may or may not change and only apply on pve servers. And legimacy of anyone's presense on his deed or anywhere on undeeded spot, anywhere on any server in this so called sandbox game shouldn't be questioned by anyone, but oh well. Also agree,  it could avoid someone stressing out

 

1 minute ago, Sheffie said:

Really? The trouble with unique slayings is that they aren't elitist enough?

 

Here's an idea. If you are in the business of trapping uniques and dictating who gets the loot, and you don't want people in Local, then don't tell them where the slaying is.

Then, anyone who happens to live next door... well, they got lucky. Live with it. Or try harder next time, and trap the unique somewhere more remote. Or accept that you can't control literally everything.

 

I fully agree it would be nice if it would still be an open contest on PVE, I personally really enjoyed the competition. It is decided otherwise by the developers / GM team so that is what we need to adhere to - and stealth accounts in local definitely break the current rules.

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17 minutes ago, Tor said:

What a stupid rule in a first place, how about they disable dragons untill they come up with mechanic that makes sense and works as intended in a first place. Or lets just call for a GM even for those that happen to live  on their deedfor years nearby the unique that just spawned and beign killed

 

Just now, Sheffie said:

Really? The trouble with unique slayings is that they aren't elitist enough?

 

Here's an idea. If you are in the business of trapping uniques and dictating who gets the loot, and you don't want people in Local, then don't tell them where the slaying is.

Then, anyone who happens to live next door... well, they got lucky. Live with it. Or try harder next time, and trap the unique somewhere more remote. Or accept that you can't control literally everything.

 

Please keep irrelevant parts of the conversation out of this thread. This isn't a place to whine about uniques, how they are, what you want to see and the like.

This is a suggestion to stop people from crashing slays they aren't invited too, something that'd help stop people breaking rules and doing illegal actions as per game rules.

 

I don't care if the chip on your shoulder is really a boulder. Not the place for it.

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I'm telling you to accept that you can't control everything, and/or take responsibility for what you can control.

 

So, who's whining?

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1 minute ago, Sheffie said:

I'm telling you to accept that you can't control everything, and/or take responsibility for what you can control.

 

So, who's whining?

You, this conversation you're making isn't productive to anyone.

This is a suggestion to make it so rules aren't so easily broken, or exploited.

You're arguing that people should be able to abuse a part of the system in order to profit. Which is frankly, disgusting. I know I tend to toe the line in chat with the rules, but it shouldn't be an accepted thing to allow exploiting. Your entire point has been based on hating private slays and a chip on your shoulder about them. A chip, which has absolutely has nothing to do with keeping things fair and legal as per game rules.

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1 minute ago, Madnath said:

 

 

Please keep irrelevant parts of the conversation out of this thread. This isn't a place to whine about uniques, how they are, what you want to see and the like.

This is a suggestion to stop people from crashing slays they aren't invited too, something that'd help stop people breaking rules and doing illegal actions as per game rules.

 

I don't care if the chip on your shoulder is really a boulder. Not the place for it.

 

I was providing context why i don't agree with your suggestion that have nothing to do with anyone whining, chip on the shoudlers, boulders of whatever else. If you think it's irrelevant then feel free ask my posts to be deleted.

 

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I don't even do slays that need this, but it's still needed. +1, a no-brainer to prevent rulebreaking

Perhaps have it be PvE server only, however.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

I was providing context why i don't agree with your suggestion that have nothing to do with anyone whining, chip on the shoudlers, boulders of whatever else. If you think it's irrelevant then feel free ask my posts to be deleted.

 

Your entire point is for disabling dragons until a better mechanic is in place, which is way behind the scope of this thread. People living in a local range to a slay, which by the way, isn't exactly common in the first place, wouldn't be affected. If you missed the title of the thread, it's for STEALTHED characters only. If you live local, there's no reason you'd be stealthed on your own deed. Something which, by the way, becomes redundant if part of the slay group just tries to /tell you. Something not so easily done if you just put your unknown priest or alt into the edge of the local range for the dragon and stealth them.

 

You and Sheffie are both getting the wrong idea and are fighting a battle not even being made against your scenarios.

Edited by Madnath
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How often does this problem occur? How many players benefit from this loophole? How many players suffer? How much of a difference does it make to their bank balance, to their game experience?

 

I think these questions need to be answered, to put into perspective your request that the devs spend time changing this particular part of the code rather than something else, and your accusation that it's other people who are whining.

 

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

How often does this problem occur? How many players benefit from this loophole? How many players suffer? How much of a difference does it make to their bank balance, to their game experience?

 

I think these questions need to be answered, to put into perspective your request that the devs spend time changing this particular part of the code rather than something else, and your accusation that it's other people who are whining.

 

1) We don't know and can't tell, because they wouldn't show on Niarja. But given I've been to a few slays where someone has tried to "be afk" above the location for the intention of "asking to take part" it's not very unlikely. We also have "Reveal settlement" which would make the more obvious or likely slay deeds to be more easily found

2) See above

3) Anyone who attempts to do a private or impromptu slay. Your viewpoints on if private slays should be a thing are invalid here, because that's not the point of this thread. It's to fix an easy to do loophole and a possible exploit.

4) Totally irrelevant. This is a conversation about fixing a likely loophole/exploit, nothing to do with bank balance.

 

Your initial post only holds ground if people advertise where a private slay is taking place, which people never do, regardless of if the rules prevent people crashing it.

Uniques also have a tether, which while it can be a bit... wonky, largely prevents just taking it "somewhere more remote"

This isn't about being able to control everything, this is about fixing something that can be abused.

Edited by Madnath

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Deed the whole local and fence it or let stealthed people be, they obviously do not appear in local and have figured a nice workaround, #### private slaying bull...

The unique etiquette was and still is a bandaid because of the lack of better game mechanic for the whole mess and drama that people cause.

 

If you want to not have such people fence the local area so nobody can get in, kos players you dont want in there and have a happy private party, there's way to handle it as it is.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Sheffie said:

devs spend time changing this particular part of the code

 

My creature.class is messed up so I can't pull up the exact line, but in Creature.class

        if (p != null && p.getInventory() != null && p.isWithinDistanceTo(this, 300.0F) && p.isPaying())

replace with

        if (p != null && p.getInventory() != null && p.isWithinDistanceTo(this, 300.0F) && p.isPaying() && (!p.isStealth() || p.isOnPvPServer()))

with some quick testing on Test because I'm not a coder by any stretch of the imagination, and bam, that's the dev time

 

edit: all this in less time than it'd take a GM to investigate a single report, I'd bet

Edited by Stanlee
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Posted (edited)

wont that make it so only stealthed players get rewards?🤔😄

not quoting so it can be fixed but.. it seems to be just that ^^

Edited by Finnn

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48 minutes ago, Madnath said:

Your entire point is for disabling dragons until a better mechanic is in place, which is way behind the scope of this thread. People living in a local range to a slay, which by the way, isn't exactly common in the first place, wouldn't be affected. If you missed the title of the thread, it's for STEALTHED characters only. If you live local, there's no reason you'd be stealthed on your own deed. Something which, by the way, becomes redundant if part of the slay group just tries to /tell you. Something not so easily done if you just put your unknown priest or alt into the edge of the local range for the dragon and stealth them.

 

You and Sheffie are both getting the wrong idea and are fighting a battle not even being made against your scenarios.

 

1 hour ago, Tor said:

Also agree,  it could avoid someone stressing out

 

Also, according to the set of curtesies, even for someone that's living nearby is not stated that is excluded from "exploiting", if uninvited.That only means it's matter of time when someone is going to stress about it, so you might wanna suggest that as well in the fight against the exploiterds crashing yoru parties

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9 minutes ago, Finnn said:

wont that make it so only stealthed players get rewards?🤔😄

not quoting so it can be fixed but.. it seems to be just that ^^

 

whoops, you're right, forgot the !

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10 minutes ago, Tor said:

 

 

Also, according to the set of curtesies, even for someone that's living nearby is not stated that is excluded from "exploiting", if uninvited.That only means it's matter of time when someone is going to stress about it, so you might wanna suggest that as well in the fight against the exploiterds crashing yoru parties

Not really, if they're not stealthed it's an entirely different circumstance I don't plan to cover with this. The scenario you're talking about is something to directly issue against current slay rules, not what I'm proposing. I get your point, it's just not the right place to push against it.

Living local isn't the same as being stealthed. Living local is just a part of the game, even if it's unlikely to have a slay in local range of a deed. Stealth is a deliberate action in order to conceal your prescence that prevents actions.

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-1, the fact that the game even has rules for PvE uniques shows that there's an issue with the game mechanics there which should be addressed. Making the rule more convoluted is the opposite of what should be done. And even if you add this rule, what would be next? Instead of stealthing the player could just put a deed down and from that point on "live" there, in local, thus what does the proposal even fix then? Going to ban deeding near private parties next? Or going to ban playing near private parties even if you have a deed there? How far does this have to go?

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3 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

Making the rule more convoluted is the opposite of what should be done.

And even if you add this rule, what would be next? Instead of stealthing the player could just put a deed down and from that point on "live" there, in local, thus what does the proposal even fix then? Going to ban deeding near private parties next? Or going to ban playing near private parties even if you have a deed there? How far does this have to go?

It's not adding to the rules though. It's a code change that doesn't even need to be listed in the rules.

And for the second point, nothing. Nothing is next. We wait to see if devs change uniques. You're trying to back up you're saying with weird "suppose this happens" that are unlikely to happen. Which are, again, not something in the scope of this thread. I'm fine with you not agreeing but the reasoning for it is totally beyond what's being talked about currently.

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Posted (edited)

+1 While I agree with everyone that private slayings suck. They do exist and there are rules in place and I judge no one for following a system they did not create. The rule states that you are not allowed to crash slayings, and stealthing is an abuse of that rule. It could create paranoia in those who host private slayings. It's also a lot of work for GMs if hosts are paranoid and ask for an area to be sweeped when there might not even be people there. I think within this current system stealthing should not provide rewards on PvE. PvP should remain untouched as it's okay to steal from slayings. 

Edited by Zuelatak
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I see the point of views that everyone is coming at this from....and Mad is correct, this is the place for the discussion about the stealth issue concerning private unique slayings, other issues can be and are discussed in other topics. I agree that if there is a rule in place then that rule should be enforced and any tool / code that the devs can come up with to make the job easier on the GM team, then I am in favor of that. I don't care if it is unique slayings or anti botting/maco... it can be anything, enforce the rules that are in place. If you don't like the rules, then there are times and places to lobby for those changes...Mad is lobbying for this change here, it should be kept on that topic.

 

To go on record, I am not a member of any private team, I have turned down offers to join private teams because I believe that they are bad for the community, but they are how the game works so I have no issue with those that do private slayings. 

 

Happy Wurming Everyone!

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