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Patch Notes 17/JUN/2021

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4 hours ago, Darklords said:

The bonus for both parents having it has been increased by a lot.

 

A bonus is nice but previoisly you could put a horse with traits a and b together with a horse that has c and d and get a foal with a b c and d, right now this is not the case. Id like to know if we can return to introducing traits into the mix via both parents not just pass on what both already have.

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5 hours ago, Darklords said:

The bonus for both parents having it has been increased by a lot.

 

Does this mean we are actually using both parents again, but still using a dominant pool? There was no "both parents having it" according to previous patch notes?

 

The more breeding I have done, the clearer it has become that weighting traits with points has just meant the traits you want roll off very often in the next generation. Unless this has changed, I can't see "tweaks" making much difference.

 

Having not opened testing to players and going live with a massively bugged update "we are doing internal testing on them currently" does not feel reassuring to me.

 

3 hours ago, elentari said:

While on topic, can we get any way to remove the useless misc traits on horses , such as "it seems to pick stuff up" ? At this point it's starting to be regarded more as a negative trait not a misc one. 

 

So much this ^^. Without it, having higher AH is still worse now than it was before the whole update. Add in the output traits as well, and your chances of breeding a horse with the traits you want is well nigh impossible.

 

Gear and water traits are both even worse than negative traits, they effectively do nothing, and take up an even larger chunk of points when you roll them than half the annoying output and misc traits. They should either be replaced with something that adds a small increase in draught / speed or just flat gotten rid of. I do not know a single player who wants these traits, they are useless points stealers.

 

Saying that misc traits as a whole will be less likely is also not exactly comforting to hear, spark and strong and healthy were actually two of the more desired traits players would breed for on PvE, back when we had some input into the outcome of our breeding. 

 

Likewise FF and Tough for PvP, and these two traits have just about vanished due to combat being it's own separate pool.

 

The whole concept of dominant pools seems flawed to me, as it gives us cookie cutter pre-destined  outcomes, that don't even vaguely match what people used to custom breed for, even disregarding the idea of splitting speed from draught. I would dance with joy to hear it had been totally scrapped as a bad idea, and we were returning to the previous methods of breeding, but with the higher AH reducing the chance of negatives, and some way to custom breed in traits we want, not just randomly add on ones we really, really don't.

Edited by Delone
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On 7/13/2021 at 4:49 AM, SmeJack said:

Misc isnt supposed to be a dominant like negative isnt but thats assuming something from the update works ;)

 

I don't know how else to explain the 4 misc trait donkey foals/mules I get when I kept and used donkeys born with a single misc trait as breeders, I sure as hell am not seeing 4s or 4d foals/mules turn up at random, but with a single misc on a donkey being bred, I do see  pure 4 misc results, where the other parent is either speed or draught dominant.

Edited by Delone
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4 hours ago, Delone said:

The whole concept of dominant pools seems flawed to me

 

This! Let me just repeat I agree completely. It is this concept of a dominant pool wiping away other traits that will be the death of the breeding profession. 

Everything else can be tweaked and patched, but this is a catastrophic invention. The point system has been invented and that alone secures that people do not straightaway make super-powered all-round horses that have ALL the good traits. The "dominant pool" mechanism is therefore superfluous, pointless and disruptive.

 

And let me also repeat regarding tweaks: if rare traits are not made a little bit more common and workable, it will mean a lot of breeders - myself included - will stop breeding, simply because we do not wish to spend the rest of our Wurm existence chasing that illusive lootbox Macguffin. 

 

Edited by CistaCista
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I agree. Moreover, I can understand, and support, that it is not possible anymore to breed a horse with "80 trait points" (old 5sp) anymore with AH 50. That is what I expected and welcomed with the patch.

 

What is absolutely not ok is that it is impossible now to breed the old "115 trait point" horses with AH 90+, and not even the old 5sp. I just had the irrecoverable loss of one of my 2 such horses, which got attacked by a mob when I was mounted and in fight, and which was not even starving or so. I won't spread conspiracy theories, but short after that my replacement mount ("80 trait point" 5sp) got attacked by a simple spider (I was alerted and finished it off soon). I do not hope that there are schemes to take away these horses. 

 

It should be possible, of course with according skill only, to breed the horses with the traits as before, even if those traits are having somewhat different effects. As it is now, the whole patch is a large nerf and punishment without any positive outcome. Breeders with 90+ AH should still be able to breed the "8 good traits" horses as before. The decision to specialize should be left with the players.

Edited by Ekcin
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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
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15 hours ago, Darklords said:

We are working on some tweaks to it still, want to make sure we have something people will enjoy this time more info soon on the changes as soon as we can we are doing internal testing on them currently. Things will pass on more consistently and miscellaneous trait will not be so common to show up.

 

I don't think anything that could be described as a "tweak" is anywhere close to being sufficient, and none of that resolves the lack of communication.

 

Where was all this testing before the patch was released live, when many of us were literally begging to help test?

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1 hour ago, Dinant said:

 

I don't think anything that could be described as a "tweak" is anywhere close to being sufficient, and none of that resolves the lack of communication.

 

Where was all this testing before the patch was released live, when many of us were literally begging to help test?

you begged to betatest? when - where

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19 minutes ago, Finnn said:

you begged to betatest? when - where

"Literally begging" may be a slight exaggeration but I was asking since the first day of the "sneak peek"

 

 

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Wurm has horrible testing tools. Even the combat UI change thing was a bad test. Testing the animal changes would be very hard for players. Maybe if Wurm let us test where there where no cool downs and babies popped out instantly. Although, even then how does one test something when we don't even know how it's suppose to work?

 

I also think, it's all conspiricy based mind you, that they aren't interested in what we want. It's the wants of the elite insider friends that are calling the shots. Wurm has been like this for a long time. Why ask players what they want or think when you have no intention of using the feedback.

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1 hour ago, Ogare said:

Wurm has horrible testing tools. Even the combat UI change thing was a bad test. Testing the animal changes would be very hard for players. Maybe if Wurm let us test where there where no cool downs and babies popped out instantly. Although, even then how does one test something when we don't even know how it's suppose to work?

 

I also think, it's all conspiricy based mind you, that they aren't interested in what we want. It's the wants of the elite insider friends that are calling the shots. Wurm has been like this for a long time. Why ask players what they want or think when you have no intention of using the feedback.

 

Hanlon's razor: 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence.

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3 hours ago, Ogare said:

 

I also think, it's all conspiricy based mind you, that they aren't interested in what we want. It's the wants of the elite insider friends that are calling the shots. Wurm has been like this for a long time.

You forgot your tin foil hat. 

 

Could you please outline who this benefits

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1 hour ago, Archaed said:

You forgot your tin foil hat. 

 

Could you please outline who this benefits


Probably the same people who are secretly benefitting from publishing population data.  Hence why, I suppose, you are wearing that tinfoil hat.

 

Ok, well deserved snipes aside; if you're a volunteer developer, and you respect the opinion of someone, you are much more likely to implement their suggestions (because you see them as intelligent on the matter).

 

This doesn't mean "bad" (in that developer's opinion) suggestions get implemented (though many are badly implemented!), it simply means that if you put forward a good project it won't hurt if it's from your friends.

 

Certain players are respected by the Devs, and those players have been consulted over things such as rules in the past.  This isn't tinfoil hat territory, this is "go dig through the forum" territory.

 

It this a bad thing?  I suppose it depends if you're in the right clique!

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Tell me one animal breeder happy with this update, because they seem to all be in here upset

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9 minutes ago, Archaed said:

Could you please outline who this benefits

 

I'd be guessing it's a reference to that "one breeder" they are working with, and seems to be completely at odds with the rest of an entire community, leaving them having to deal with the results?

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We don't know anything about what that person thinks we don't know who they are and they could be saying the same thing we are for all we know. This isn't some who you know thing, I suspect its more like the velrei overhaul or favour saccing for example which was "I had a really great idea that I'm super proud of even if the entire player base thinks it sucks so its staying" Im also not sure I recall them asking for any feedback on this one, not like the favour one that they ignored.

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Dev vision and community vision, if wildly different can lead to a lot of negative feedback about the game and player loss. I know it sounds like I'm cpt. Obvious here but it's quite relevant now. 

 

I think the most poignant example is the fiasco at Blizzcon when they announced "Diablo Immortal" on mobile in a room mostly filled with PC gamers that awaited the next diablo sequel on PC for years. If anything, that should be a lesson to understand the needs and wants of your community and realise that "your vision" for the game will mean nothing if there's no one to enjoy it. 

 

If you want to put out a single player game, or mods out there sure, go with your vision. You might find a niche customer base to like it. 

 

But when the large part of your MMO community dislikes an update or how core game mechanics are changed and their direction, then it's time to take a step back and ask yourself some big questions. "Is one person's feedback worth more than an entire community's feedback?" "If the majority of players are unhappy with our update, what can we do to address the issue? " and of course "What aspects of the player's vision for the game can be incorporated into the game to satisfy the customer? "

 

It's pretty clear that the update has caused a lot of frustration, confusion and general unhappiness from breeders and players everywhere. Lack of comms (or insufficient communication from the higher ups), lack of proper description of some traits and this general sense of "we don't know what's happening" that adds to the issue. My point is, the players have communicated their feedback on this update in quite a lot of threads by now and an obvious pattern of negative feedback has emerged that requires the update to be closely looked at, if not overhauled entirely. The cost of ignoring that feedback is that you run the risk in not having any more players to give you feedback at all in the long run. 

 

Unlike Blizzard / Activision, I doubt Wurm can actually afford a moment like "Do you guys not have phones?"

Edited by elentari
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15 minutes ago, elentari said:

It's pretty clear that the update has caused a lot of frustration, confusion and general unhappiness from breeders and players everywhere. Lack of comms (or insufficient communication from the higher ups), lack of proper description of some traits and this general sense of "we don't know what's happening" that adds to the issue. My point is, the players have communicated their feedback on this update in quite a lot of threads by now and an obvious pattern of negative feedback has emerged that requires the update to be closely looked at, if not overhauled entirely. The cost of ignoring that feedback is that you run the risk in not having any more players to give you feedback at all in the long run. 

 

 

 

So the veterans saw how the new Wurm player feels like and they didn't like it, ohh no 😄

 

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11 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

So the veterans saw how the new Wurm player feels like and they didn't like it, ohh no 😄

 

people playing the game suddenly realize skill doesnt matter and it's all a lootbox with 7-11 day delay to open it, "ohh no", what is to not like about that

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26 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

So the veterans saw how the new Wurm player feels like and they didn't like it, ohh no 😄

 

Not sure how  you took that entire post and pulled that from it, feels more like a personal attack on the poster.

 

You contributed nothing to the ongoing discussion, and as such it appears to be pure trolling, perhaps you should be referred here:

 https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-online-rules/

 

Read the section on forum rules, and stick to the topic.

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16 minutes ago, Delone said:

Not sure how  you took that entire post and pulled that from it, feels more like a personal attack on the poster.

 

You contributed nothing to the ongoing discussion, and as such it appears to be pure trolling, perhaps you should be referred here:

 https://forum.wurmonline.com/index.php?/topic/123123-wurm-online-rules/

 

Read the section on forum rules, and stick to the topic.

 

It is just observation on how players are acting. It adds to the subject of complaints about changes that change the long-term habits of players, because those who have been playing Wurm for many years have already acquired certain habits and forget how a new player can look at a given problem. But when the old mechanisms change it suddenly starts complaining, interesting isn't it?

As for genetics itself, your "skill" will not change what genes will be passed on to the next generation, total randomness is as close to the real world as possible.

 

Edited by Darnok

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33 minutes ago, Darnok said:

As for genetics itself, your "skill" will not change what genes will be passed on to the next generation, total randomness is as close to the real world as possible.

 

Artificial selection / selective breeding would like to know your location. That's all I've got to say. 

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8 minutes ago, elentari said:

 

Artificial selection / selective breeding would like to know your location. That's all I've got to say. 

 

I've just made you know what about AH, I think it would solve few problems(things that I see as problems).

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