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Patch Notes 17/JUN/2021

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Please ignore that troll. He is already infesting the suggestion forum with completely braindead suggestions nobody supports. Now he seems to take revenge by "siding with the devs". Just have a laugh about such outright stupidity.

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Posted (edited)

There is a reason horse semen is one of the most expensive fluids at 5 million $+ per gallon if it comes from a prize stud. It it would be complete random no one would pay so much.

A high producing stud produces that amount in about 2 month of daily gathering during his 8 month breeding season (followed by 4 month of rest and "reloading").

Edited by Bekador
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9 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

It is just observation on how players are acting. It adds to the subject of complaints about changes that change the long-term habits of players, because those who have been playing Wurm for many years have already acquired certain habits and forget how a new player can look at a given problem. But when the old mechanisms change it suddenly starts complaining, interesting isn't it?

As for genetics itself, your "skill" will not change what genes will be passed on to the next generation, total randomness is as close to the real world as possible.

 

pff, we do not play real world, we play a game

We live in the real world, here we play for some other kind of entertainment, if we wanted to breed horses irl or do 'real' things, there's plenty of other places and ways, this is online game, and too much realism only hurts it or the experience of the player playing it.

 

As to new/old players... new players still eat dirt and can't figure what the hell all 4 corners on a tile mean and how they relate to next tiles... leave them figure the game; others... once you get higher skill and you were once promised to get reasonable results.. and suddenly even after you spend a lot of time you get complete nonsense that just seems like a lottery ticket system or spinning wheel with prizes .. or a lootbox mechanic.. you feel cheated.. you didn't buy in on that, and you were promised to get better results with skill.. not to maybe get 1 good horse every few months. If that doesn't make sense to you.. try to pay a subscription, try to grind some skill, try to get a good lootbox horse and when you get annoyed from the results.. join the talk, but play to earn any respect for your opinions.

 

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Finnn said:

As to new/old players... new players still eat dirt and can't figure what the hell all 4 corners on a tile mean and how they relate to next tiles... leave them figure the game

 

 

Guess why? And if you leave them they will quit, because digging dirt for 1000 times * 20 second for each action (for new character?) is not very interesting gameplay. Also how high they will level up after first 1000 dig actions? Some old veterans should start new characters and try this game as fresh start, maybe then you would be able to see what I see.

Edited by Darnok

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31 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Guess why? And if you leave them they will quit, because digging dirt for 1000 times * 20 second for each action (for new character?) is not very interesting gameplay. Also how high they will level up after first 1000 dig actions? Some old veterans should start new characters and try this game as fresh start, maybe then you would be able to see what I see.

We did a year ago with NFI.

You don't like the game, sorry. Move on lmao

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, elentari said:

 

Artificial selection / selective breeding would like to know your location. That's all I've got to say. 

^that

also every akc certified breeder would also love to know your location. I do recommend looking through the breeders resource section and DNA science section its a good read.

 

believe it or not the old system was pretty close to real life breeding if a bit simplified.

 

one of many Horse registry

Edited by Yserin
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Darnok said:

 

Guess why? And if you leave them they will quit, because digging dirt for 1000 times * 20 second for each action (for new character?) is not very interesting gameplay. Also how high they will level up after first 1000 dig actions? Some old veterans should start new characters and try this game as fresh start, maybe then you would be able to see what I see.

you're trolling again..

 

digging is one if not easiest skill to grind, because of difficulty management

 

all accounts start with skills at 1, and was it.. 18.5 characteristics.. we have all been there, some still have low skills, it takes action to improve your skills, play the game, get better at what you're doing, basics.. nothing crazy about it

 

so what were you saying

--edit

oh yea.. btw endgame looks like 3seconds an action or below.. not like you could know by not playing it.. thought I'd share so you learn something

Edited by Finnn

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6 hours ago, Finnn said:

you're trolling again..

 

digging is one if not easiest skill to grind, because of difficulty management

 

all accounts start with skills at 1, and was it.. 18.5 characteristics.. we have all been there, some still have low skills, it takes action to improve your skills, play the game, get better at what you're doing, basics.. nothing crazy about it

 

so what were you saying

--edit

oh yea.. btw endgame looks like 3seconds an action or below.. not like you could know by not playing it.. thought I'd share so you learn something

 

19.5

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9 hours ago, Finnn said:

all accounts start with skills at 1, and was it.. 18.5 characteristics.. we have all been there, some still have low skills, it takes action to improve your skills, play the game, get better at what you're doing, basics.. nothing crazy about it

This is why I am deeply saddened no exposure or marketing was done for Epic when the steam rollout was deployed. 

 

For Christ's sake we have 1.5 second creation timers, 6 second imping timers, 4-5 second digging timers, and with a woa shovel it's a 1.5 second digging timer that's rounded down to 1 second. Yes 1 second.You literally can terraform at the speed of light compared to the old system. 

 

It's such a fast gameplay that it's a crying shame the steam folk didn't receive more awareness to the bonuses of Epic.

 

Back to the breeding thing, genetics HAS to have a role, otherwise it's just a lootbox. There is too much randomness even now in breeding that the small breeders might just end up buying some horse stock from the larger breeders but that in itself kinda defeats the purpose of breeding your own horses, with your own work. It feels too much like a horse reset than anything. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 9:19 PM, DemonaNightshade said:

There will be a post from a dev in the next few days responding to concerns and clarifying things. I personally don't know exactly how things were intended to be, and have not been breeding to see how my own results stack up. I've just been making runes to keep my current favored animals from aging. I do agree that something is not right, and have said that quite a lot of times through this thread. I am sorry it's been that way for everyone, I know you are unhappy with the results.

 

Did this post happen? If so, could someone direct me to it please?

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21 minutes ago, McGarnicle said:

Did this post happen?

 

There was this mention of tweaks:

 

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I expected something more.

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Posted (edited)

A players perspective, from the point of breeding riding/hitching animals, of the new and changed trait system and other AH update changes: (Humor, dark)

 

  • It has very strong leg muscles (changed): movement speed bonus (speed)

(old movement / carry bonus) change: we took away the carry bonus and made it just speed. Still made it worth 10 of your AH 

  • It has keen senses (changed) to "It seems accustomed to water": moves faster in shallow waters (speed)

We took a trait that was more of an easter egg due to the weird combination / unlikely scenario of it actually being triggered, and replaced it with a speed boost that will only work when riding in shallow water, where you will either continuously hit patches too deep and stop, or if in water of allowable depth of 5 and flat, you will get kicked off your horse every  few seconds. Due to the speed increase, this will now happen more often. Sweet!

  • It seems more nimble than normal: increased max ridable slope (Draft, Rare)

We gave you a trait which you will rarely see, but unless all the hitched animals have it  (very unlikely) will probably not actually be able to make any difference.

  • It gives more resources: Increases output of resources such as wool and milk (Output)

We added this in so that it could fill in points when you don't get the traits you want on animals that don't produce milk or wool.

  • It seems more friendly: Easier to tame (Combat)

Another filler trait to take up points where you would much prefer something useful, seems to show up on well over 50% of animals. Uses points better spent elsewhere.

  • It seems prize winning: Gives better products when butchered (Output)
  • It looks plump and ready to butcher: Gives more products when butchered (Output)

At least when we are now culling 80% of our breeding results, we have a high chance of getting more items from them. \o/

  • It seems to pick stuff up: Chance to dig something up when eating, drops items on the ground (Output)

Because we took away the keen senses easter egg trait, we had to add another one. Some really weird combination of events will actually trigger this to work (If it isn't just completely broken like many suspect). Maybe tamed, on lead by a food container for hours, during a triple conjunction of moons, within 30 minutes of a server restart. /shrug It only costs 5 points, might as well have it fill the last few points of my AH I have.... no wait, it never does.

  • It has strong legs: Carry weight bonus (Draft)

This is the carry bonus we took off you from first trait listed above (It has very strong leg muscles). Here, you can have it back. Previously both traits cost you 10 of your AH, now that they are split you can have them back for the bargain basement price of just 30 AH points! (But not on the same animal, we split dominant pools remember)

  • It seems to be a graceful eater: Less chance to reduce the growth stage of a tile when eating (Misc)

Because we changed the way animals eat, they now need a trait to do something to prevent them from setting back growth stages continuously till you just end up with seeds or a flower or thatch sitting on a dirt tile.

  • It is easy on it’s gear: Equipped gear takes less damage (Draft)

As well as nerfing speed on vehicles, we were intending to make hitched animals start damaging their gear. In the rush to release this bug filled update, we somehow missed out on adding this nerf. This trait was going to give you back something you used to have for free, at the cost of 10 AH points. Now it just costs you 10 AH points, and given the fallout, we are probably not game to nerf gear damage on hitched animals. Does absolutely nothing.

  • It looks extremely sick: Has a very slim chance to pass away when it recieves a hunger tick (Negative)

We decided there was not enough grief in the update, so we added this one in. Unfortunately, with the way animals are now eating weirdly, they sometimes graze 6 times in a second, multiple times a day. Outcome: your very slim chance of death is around 1 in 5. If the animal makes it to adult, it's a miracle. Rejoice!

  • It has a chance to produce twins: Chance to birth twins (Misc, Rare)

We'll give you a rare trait, with a CHANCE to have twins. Maybe. (sadly only seen it show once, on a non inbred animal with 3 negatives, 2 speed (one of which was water trait, see above) - Not an animal I wanted to have any offspring, let alone multiple at once.

  • It seems vibrant: Increases output of resources (Output)

Not sure this does anything. If only I could milk/shear my horses/donkeys/mules/hell horses, maybe I could find out. Another common point stealer that you would really just prefer not to get. Edit: We missed the days where actions produce scraps, so in tribute sheep sheared with this trait produce little leftover bits when spinning uncombined amounts (Thanks for the info SmeJack)

  • It has a slow metabolism: eats half as much as a normal animal (Misc)

Due to the weird multi-grazing feeding actions when feeding containers are anywhere around, we needed a trait to stop them emptying said containers twice a day. Here you go.  Oh, this took points you wanted to spend on speed or draught traits? Sorry. (Also suspect this one causes animals not to fatten up, leaving them at the prospect of suddenly dropping dead of starvation WHILE showing not hungry on inspect, despite the fact that they are).

  • It looks more friendly than normal: Less likely to be attacked by aggressive creatures when tame (Combat)

Your combat pet is a really nice critter, will stop and have a chat with the Trolls, totally disarming them with its pleasant personality and bright sunny nature, and they will wander off to go attack that grumpy player instead. Due to this trait having increased the livability prospects of many generations, it has become a dominant trait (translation, this one shows up on almost every animal, costing you points you wanted spent on speed or draught) 

  • It is especially loyal: keeps loyalty to its tamer longer, loses less when taking damage (Combat)

Your pet loves you. It doesn't mind the fact that you keep sending it in to get mauled by bears and crocodiles, it would do anything for you. Will stay tame right up until that Venerable Champion Troll wipes it from the face of the earth.

  • It looks stationary: will stay put as if saddled (Misc)

This one could actually be handy, no more having to saddle animals to stop them from walking straight to the newly planted crop/grass tile and grazing it bare instantly. Sadly, was coded at the exact same point where having saddled creatures meant they took off for the hills the moment you dismounted/unhitched them, and means these guys seem to run around your enclosures even more than normal. Oh well you didn't really want draft or speed traits anyway.

  • It is unbelievably fast: always on speed bonus similar to hell horses (Speed, Rare)

This one is actually pretty good, makes for a really zippy riding horse, IF it shows up AND is on one that has the 3 working speed traits (not that water one, see above). Really annoying to see it turn up on your sheep. 

  • It has very good genes: increased amount and quality of resources like milk and wool (Output, Rare)

No seriously it does. The ones made from the kind of Denim you only could get in the old days. Like Levi or... no wait, that's something else.. 😜

 

 

Other important changes:

 

  • Animals will now move to feed from unlocked containers -

Animals will become fixated on the food container they can't get to, and will starve to death while standing on enchanted grass.

 

  • Mules are also as good as draft creatures as horses. -

That scrawny mule is now better at pulling vehicles than your husky new horses and beefy bison. Sorry if that wasn't the look you were going for as you ride your battle cart into combat.

 

  • Introduced new body shapes for horses. Horse body shape depends on the horse’s trait set. -

We have been lazy and just stretched/shrunk the models instead of giving you a proper draught horse with it's own skin, or a nice looking hot blood. Welcome to the world of steroid gym freaks and Raptor headed horses!

 

  • New: Traits now have categories, the majority category on a creature excluding negative and miscellaneous traits will influence how traits are passed on greatly preferring to pass on its majority to its child. Dominant category is picked from either the mother or the father randomly. -

We're really sorry you liked being able to breed for the actual traits you wanted, we will now produce offspring by cloning one of the parents. Except.... well the clone will only have some of the majority of the traits the parent had, most likely losing those 20 point ones you want to replace them with gear or water ones, and just rolling the dice on everything else. Expect most of those to be ones you have no use for.

Custom bred longer lived, more disease resistant horses? Riding horses with useful combat traits? Sorry, we saw you breeding for horses you wanted, so we separated those into different dominant pools. Not going to happen.

 

  • If both parents have no traits all categories of traits receive a bonus to seed the initial traits

Breeding from wild has a good chance to give you 4 traits, but only from the misc pool. Don't expect it for draught or speed.

 

  • Traits have point values now which influence their chance to pass on and how many traits.

The more a trait influences speed or draught capabilities, the more points we will charge you for it, and the rarer it is. This makes the 20 point traits you want harder to get, roll off the next generation more often, and they also only used to account for 10 of your AH, not 20. Sneaky eh? 😜

 

  • There is still a cap of 10 traits per creature (this does not include traits like “bred in captivity”)

We are still capping you at one trait per 10 points of AH. To make up for the fact that some single traits now cost 20 points, we will give you a bunch of 5 point ones to fill in the difference, but don't expect to spend any 5 points over an even 10 point amount, as that would let you squeeze in, say, 8 traits when you only have 75 AH.

  • Old “5-speed” horses will be the same as they were before the update, and will go the same base speed.

Oh, except for that bit where we included hidden nerfs to them being able to pull hitched vehicles for every speed trait. Oh, and that bit where while riding them the previous carry bonuses from some traits don't do anything and they will slow to a walk if you carry more than a twig.

  • Vehicles now slow down as they gain load.

Putting more than a couple of rocks in will slow you to the speed where you can't escape mobs. Oh, at the same time we did this, we nerfed every bison bred for working speed boosts to have speed penalties, took 3 out of 5 speed boost for horses / hell horses and made them not only do nothing, but actually slow them down extra when hitched. You're welcome. In several months time breeders will just about be getting to the stage where you can do the same you could do before. Maybe. Well, if all the 20 point traits didn't keep getting rolled off each generation. 

 

  • A vehicle’s quality helps offset the weight in a vehicle, this effect starts at above 30 quality and will reduce the weight penalty up to 3x at 100 quality.

Up until 30 quality, it doesn't do much, once you hit that point it penalises you, and by about 90ql you can go at sub 30 ql again. Nice.

 

  • Players shouldn’t notice much difference outside wagons loaded up with tons of materials.

If they have their head in a sack, on a moonless Wurm night, under the old renderer in heavy fog.

 

 

 

Can't imagine why people weren't happy with all this :)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Delone
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@Delonevibrant makes it so that when you shear your sheep and then go to spin the wool you get little .02 bits left over in you inv which is super fun!

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26 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

@Delonevibrant makes it so that when you shear your sheep and then go to spin the wool you get little .02 bits left over in you inv which is super fun!

Ta, incorporated into post :)

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Posted (edited)

Dear Devs,

Can you please explain again what the new breeding is meant to do?

Because as far as I can see, this clearly demonstrates that it is not working as intended, and breeding is a complete lottery system:

Skl88sr.jpg

 

Dominant trait pool has not carried through, spent only 40 of my 75 supposed AH points. Clear demonstration of 20 point traits being rolled off due to weighting against them in favor of lower trait point outcomes. This is so f***ed up it's just not fun. The better my breeders get for supposedly producing a dominant category, the more I am seeing retarded results like this.

Edited by Delone
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Ouch...this hurts just by looking at it. 

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4 hours ago, elentari said:

Ouch...this hurts just by looking at it. 

Oh, how'd you get a look at the development cycle?

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I am having similar issues. Here's an example from today. I've really tried to like this update, but overall I find it frustrating. I cannot even give most of the horses bred away... Oh, and 71 AH skill, also.

3uuBGGp.png

Edited by Keridwyn
Forgot a sentence.
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Any ninja update happen yet? Cause it's been a while again and no news from anyone....

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no sarcasm. This result is working as intended by the patch notes. I think I am down to 2 females that havent died of old age for bison.

 

aHcWrLB.png

 

If I wasnt sure the result would depress me I would go through the spreed sheet and see what the inheritance rate is from the male and female parents. maybe see if there is a pattern or even if the gender of the offspring has a pattern. I suspect which parent it inherits from isnt as random as it should be.

 

so if someone is interested in doing some test it theres ^ and idea for one

 

edit: my last 3 that I didnt kill yet ( was waiting on them to get fat) includes the above.

60NTajQ.png

 

I plan on keeping the output one. see if I can get the + more when butchered on one.

 

edit of edit.

I might amuse myself and see if I can get the rare combat trait too lmao. see if combat and output have a higher success rate with not getting their dom category rolled off.

Edited by Yserin

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So the tactic of just waiting us out and never bothering to fix this seems to have worked, for a certain definition of worked...

 

I just wonder how many players found this to be the last straw, or better yet, how many would have had to have quit for them to actually fix this.

 

I hate to think that the two number might have been close enough that me staying contributed to the negligence.

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