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Patch Notes 03/JUN/2021

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19 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I agree that the AH changes are completely botched when it comes to breeding. The question is, how can it be repaired.

  • A first step would be to reduce the occurrence of negative traits to the pre change level, when negative traits on deed from healthy, non inbred parents inside the animals per tiles values were a rare occurrence, maybe 1 in 5 to 7 births.
  • Next, the probability of inheritance of traits from parents had to be raised to pre change levels.
  • Maybe, in addition, "output traits" should be confined to animals where output may matter, namely cows, sheep, pigs, to a reduced extent bisons.

 

For the first step, making negative traits rare traits when inbreeding isn't happening sounds like a good way to address it. It feels like the current rate of negative traits is something left over from when those were worth negative points.

 

They definetly need to do something about irrelevant traits. For example the milk/wool trait on creatures which neither give milk nor wool, that should just not happen. There's also the "It is easy on its gear" trait, that sounds like it does nothing for creatures which don't use horseshoes, saddles or barding, if so then it shouldn't be a possible trait for such creatures.

 

Some traits and their opposite can also happen at the same time from what I've read, like "It looks feeble and unhealthy." and "It looks unusually strong and healthy", or "It has a slow metabolism" and "It looks constantly hungry.". If such contradictory combinations can indeed happen then that's something which should be addressed, though making negative traits rare probably would make this a rare enough occurrance for it to be a non issue then.

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I'd say a huge rework might be needed at this point to address all the unpleasant reports I've been reading over the past two weeks. My own experience has produced (too) many horses that have not inherited traits from their parents. Also 90% of the time, breeding at 75 and respectively 93 AH (Freedom and Epic skills) have produced the same results, namely foals with negative traits.

 

What Ekcin and others have said plus :

 

1. Rework trait probabilities : remove output traits from horses since we won't be breeding horses to butcher for resources, nor do we shear or milk them.

2. Rework trait probability to inherit traits from parents and it makes sense. I've bred foals from parents with 2 draft traits each and the offspring had zero draft traits. It seems the game just tosses a dice as to what is selected as a trait.

3. Lower probability based on AH and no interbreeding so that foals don't get born with 2-3 negative traits just to fill up the trait pool. It's absurd at this point.

4. Fix timers that say "ready to breed"

5. Add GENESIS to all priests so that BL kingdom is not turned into the underdog on pvp servers.

6. Animals eat waay too much food now, please recalculate.

7. Rework probability so output based animals  : sheep, cows, bisons, etc DO NOT get useless Combat traits since honestly we aren't playing Worms Argameddon and use combat sheep. Output based animals should have the highest probability to get those traits. Also speed traits on sheep? Really?

8. Rework the inspect animal window so that when you got decent AH, it actually shows you all the traits. I've tested with my alt that has 39 AH on a sheep that has 2 traits, one for bred in captivity and 1 negative trait. Only 1 trait is shown, the negative one, the other trait appears with a "?" as if AH 39 is too low to see just 2 traits.

9. What am I missing?

Edited by elentari
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8 hours ago, elentari said:

5. Add GENESIS to all priests so that BL kingdom is not turned into the underdog on pvp servers.

You had me up until there.

 

Fo's already the underdog in PvE, they really don't need one of their few useful spells vanishing.  Maybe on defiance add that option, but not on any other sever.

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30 foals since update. 30 foals culled. Sure glad i have high AH....

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-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
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2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

[Genesis for BL]

Fo's already the underdog in PvE, they really don't need one of their few useful spells vanishing.  Maybe on defiance add that option, but not on any other sever.

 

It would be a bad idea in PvP too. It would suffice to get back to the pre patch where bad traits were an exception, happening every 1 in 5 to one in 10 if breeding was done on deed, both parents had healthy traits, no inbreeding occurred, and the tiles per animal ratio was above 15. Under those circumstances, it did not make any significant difference if an animal was culled instead of being healed from the bad trait by Genesis.

 

In PvE, a single animal may matter, and consequently, it is left to the powers of Fo to grant relief. In PvP, a horse life does not count anything, PvP is a horse meat grinder.

 

Recently, WL and BL are both culling like mad in PvP because the results are crap for both. The solution is in fixing the broken and ill designed AH, not fiddling with casts.

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Pvp being a "horse meat grinder" is exactly why it is such a big problem, you need to actually have the horses to go into battle with before you can dismiss thier value... which in turn makes them invaluable.... no horses - no pvp

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Jack, sure, wasn't meant as an attack. My point is: with the old scheme, only a smaller fraction of horses get bad traits, and the traits are not all that harmful, e.g. constantly hungry when a horse's life is short anyway, even less overly aggressive etc. So maybe BL had at best 10% less useful horses to be culled and re-bred instead of patched with Genesis, hardly game breaking :). The recent situation differs.

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11 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

You had me up until there.

It was just an idea, other than that, anything that can balance out this mess and put BL back on an even playing field in pvp.

Either genesis or revert to the old system, dunno, anything.

 

As smejack said, pvp is indeed a horse meat grinder. Even something like a 5v5 can mean 20 dead horses. Bigger fights? you're looking up at a mincemeat factory.

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Well, there is another option; namely giving lib a spell that gets rid of positive traits of the caster's choice (i.e. letting you trim out traits you don't want from your stock) and then adding more weight to passing parental traits on based on AH (3x as likely at 100).

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Or.. there's the option of fixing animal husbandry skill to not be this crippled as it is.. 

- you need a fo to hold your hand all the way 1 to 100 skill

- you need RNG Jesus` blessing to not roll all useless but 'good' traits and have no other way to fix things besides ka-ching - rolling another ng breeding and praying.. like an addict gambler that next roll wont suck as the previous 5+ in a row..

 

Animal Husbandry have never been this bad.. grind high skill just to roll several bad traits every time.. or get several of the useless combat and misc traits that do no good but take 'good' trait slots(&points) and will transfer to next generation, at this point this is just meat and you've waited a week for it.. lets roll for another one of these and "hope" at the end of next week or two.

 

If any of that sounds reasonable to you.. "good for you" to think high skill level and the skill itself should not be able to handle things on it's own and be priest dependent activity with gambling rolls..

 

Quote

Can easily give you similar scenario.. imagine priests needing high ql statuette to cast good enchants, every cast causing damage to the statuette, higher powers doing more damage etc.. having minimal ql to cast anything at all, to even roll a good cast.. to need some pretty high ql..

At that point you're dependent to that hq statuette in your pocket, realistic right? Guess who wants that.. it will be good for the market.. one's work depends on another's work.. and it will force interaction and move coins.. 

Guess who wants that? Nobody.

Think who wants Animal Husbandry bound to fo priests for almost every newborn.. 

 

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2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Well, there is another option; namely giving lib a spell that gets rid of positive traits of the caster's choice (i.e. letting you trim out traits you don't want from your stock) and then adding more weight to passing parental traits on based on AH (3x as likely at 100).

 

Sounds like a convoluted workaround for a system that doesn't seem to be working as intended. The update over-complicated breeding and at this point we're adding more and more data that supports the AH update is indeed broken and cripples breeders as a whole.

Can we get some staff news on whether a fix is incoming or balancing/ trait probability issues are looked at?

 

At his point the only good thing that came out of this update is the fact I made 2 silvers by taking an axe to my foals. (moments of inspiration)

Edited by elentari
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Okay, so here is a small issue today. New foal and you can tell from original examine who the parents are. However, on "Inspect Animal" the parents are labeled backwards. Fortunately, with the mother's name this is apparent, pun intended.

 

gFfbjHT5QpSs7nStJ_tmxA.png

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Draught trait:  It is easy on its gear.

 

Is there something we don't know incoming or does somebody not know that gear on hitched animals doesn't take damage?

 

Do we have new types of hitching gear coming that will make this trait something other than meaningless for bison, as even if it does get changed to take damage hitched, bison currently can't be geared?

 

I just don't see how this trait fits into the draught category.

Edited by Delone

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2 hours ago, Delone said:

Do we have new types of hitching gear coming

 

I hope so! Would love to have harnesses for carts/wagons etc!

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I am going to dump this here since I didnt see a feedback thread.

when balancing the vehicle speeds please keep in mind a new player cant tank a troll hitting them for 500ish tiles xD.

---

basic test. ( this can count as a speed test too for the classic 5 speeds)

[16:09:56] <Ashesinthend> sonata Start

[16:42:21] This is within the village of Sonata.

total time 33minutes? I am bad at math

no damage to the shoes or saddles ( not sure how often damage ticks happen)

Starting at Port Crescendo

XyE8y6T.png

[16:10:25] A fairly large two wheel cart designed to be dragged by an animal. It is locked with a lock of very poor quality. It is made from lingonberrywood. It could be improved with a log. Ql: 30.10456, Dam: 0.0. The name of the owner, Ashesinthend, has been etched in the stern.

ElxpOpW.png

 

average speed stayed at 12.99km downhill and flat( there was a lot of slope.) I run faster with full chain and all my tools on me. 8km on steep slope in the olive section.

12.69 proc'd going uphill for a bit \o/

2 classic 5 speed horses ( not ebony)

aged and old.

a8AVnuX.png

Rainwalking saddle: 72- shoes 94, 99, 76, 77 ( mmm woops I should fix that spread xD)

Mountanmaestro saddle: blank, shoes 82, 81, 97, 83 ( lol ah well I need to switch these around later and that saddle ><)

----

return trip is all of the above. except I emptied the cart. I kept the coc water in my inventory but everything else got unloaded at sonata. may someone enjoy them xD.

[16:10:25] A fairly large two wheel cart designed to be dragged by an animal. It is locked with a lock of very poor quality. It is made from lingonberrywood. It could be improved with a log. Ql: 30.10456, Dam: 0.0. The name of the owner, Ashesinthend, has been etched in the stern.

empty cart 16.54km on flat

steep is right around 12.00km

 

[16:46:49] <Ashesinthend> from sonata to port c  start

[17:16:46] <Ashesinthend> end

Subtract 6m I missed a turn. thankfully a spider attacked me so I know how much time to subract.

24m

----------

wagon- 4 wild horses no gear. ( no speed traits that can proc) we had some cared for from cadence's launch. So at least we can start fresh for draft horses. the bison herd is SOL I need at least 1 blank trait female bison I am not looking forward to trying to find one.

Wagon is empty.

[17:28:44] A fairly large wagon designed to be dragged by four animals. It is locked with a lock of very poor quality. It is made from cherrywood. It could be improved with a log. Ql: 16.683413, Dam: 0.0. The name of the owner, Ashesinthend, has been etched in the stern.

[17:28:44] A zinc rune of Magranon has been attached, so it will increase size (5%) and increase vehicle speed (5%)

I dont have a wagon that isnt runed.

 

on lead- gear damage test. no woa

Ymovg0J.png

 

steep hill is 7.16 ( there is a lot of hill going to sonata from port crescendo.)

i'm going to cry lol I should have picked a shorter trip. 9puxdDr.png My KNARR is faster.

starting and ending at the same waystones.

XyE8y6T.png

 

 

[17:29:50] <Ashesinthend> start

[17:48:32] Mature angry troll moves in to attack you.

[18:05:20] <Spirit templar> I'll help you with mature angry troll! ( sonata spirit templar)

[18:05:16] <Ashesinthend> finish

[18:06:10] A mature angry troll is dead. R.I.P.

 

 

I need you to understand this was the same troll the whole trip and I am wearing 60-70ql steel chain. the horse I had on lead had only spark as a trait the saddle and shoes no enchants I had no stamina. odds are jumping on the horse would have just killed me. none of the deeds I passed through had spirit templars and the only towers I saw were way off the beaten path so I took it to sonata. I know they said they are working on vehicle speeds I hope they keep the fact that AH draft animals are not really a thing yet. + newplayers lack of access to such.

 

ok now for the actual reason I made this trip. horse gear has no damage.

the cart has damage but I assume that is the troll.

[18:13:34] A fairly large wagon designed to be dragged by four animals. It is locked with a lock of very poor quality. It is made from cherrywood. It could be improved with a log. Ql: 16.683413, Dam: 0.109590575. The name of the owner, Ashesinthend, has been etched in the stern.

X2PCJJA.png

 

angry troll is angry this thing chased me over 500 tiles.

 

 

-----

YAY guess what the goods are still here! and some trees logs since if I take the wagon out its usually for logs but I also ended up with misc items because I got bored waiting for the wounds to heal. I didnt think I would need cotton for this.

I got the two crates and the signs back.

 

sprouts were picked and the loom was lonely on the road.

I hitched the horse with the gear from above for the return trip. still no traits or woa low ql.

 

steep hills didnt seem to really change.

flat seems to be 10.83

[18:38:28] <Ashesinthend> start

[19:13:33] <Ashesinthend> finished!

 

no damage on gear.

so its no wear and tear at least in this timeframe. that doesnt rule out normal decay ticks however.

 

 

 

 

the real test would be a lq cart with two traitless donkeys if I had the will power. this sapped my sanity bad enough but if someone else wants to do that and post that would be interesting.

Edited by Yserin

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lack the time as it is.. don't think i'll go out and explore with a cart and such speed

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Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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I'm not sure which thread to post in, since it doesn't seem there was a patch notes for June 10th, which was supposed to help with the slow cart speeds. I posted in the older thread. I'll link it here: 

 

 

But the tl;dr is... besides the fact that AH is pretty much... well a little broken, I don't even care about that as so much the fact that my cart is still slow as all get out and the patch breaking it was 20 days ago. Can we please get some relief here?

 

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Quote

 

On 6/3/2021 at 2:24 AM, Samool said:

Apologies for the drop in communications....

 

 

 

 

And the communications ball seems to have been dropped again.

 

*Waits*

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1 hour ago, Delone said:
 

 

 

 

And the communications ball seems to have been dropped again.

 

*Waits*

 

Things are being fine tuned and worked on, which has been said multiple times.

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4 hours ago, DemonaNightshade said:

 

Things are being fine tuned and worked on, which has been said multiple times.

 

3 out of 4 foals born with the "Extremely sick" now dead at or before adolescent foal age.

 

I'm not sure what your version of a very slim chance is, but by my book it looks more like a high probability.

 

Given the messed up states of so many negatives and so many useless traits, it now seems that having access to a Fo priest is mandatory.

 

Whoever came up with this trait is a sad and sorry soul as far as I am concerned, either that or they have seemingly no idea on how what they are doing turns out once it is in game. Given the mess that this update was, and continues to be, I tend to believe the latter. 

 

Insufficient testing, almost no communication, and three weeks later still most of the update not working, and totally missed the whole problem of Higher AH being worse, only increasing the problem.

 

Giving sleep bonus and telling us to use it on AH?

Who in their right mind would want higher AH at the moment, the higher it gets all it does is make the animals increasingly random, pulling in traits that do nothing, don't even apply to the category they are listed under, don't have any affect on the animal that they are on, or are negative, with the ultimate insult being they outright kill your animals if you don't have a Fo priest available. 

 

  • Horses losing their colour, their names, their parents. (Some lose just one of these, some two, some all, some on birth, some when aging up)
  • Wild parents do not show up on inspect.
  • Breeding timers don't work.
  • Hungry status doesn't work.
  • Vehicle speeds useless, getting slower with higher quality.
  • Trait that doesn't apply to its category.
  • Trait that regularly kills animals.
  • Higher point pools being a penalty by just pulling in mostly negative or useless traits, not breeding to dominant or existing traits.
  • Points for traits still wrong after 3 weeks.
  • Animal points on no occasion after several dozen animals being as high as my AH, at best more than 5 points below, and only then by pulling in 5 point negatives.
  • Animal food consumption amounts seeming vastly increased, especially if feeding from containers
  • The ability to breed custom animals through a careful selection of parents over generations? Tossed out the window to dominant pool plus RNG.
  • Despite assurances, riding horses slower unless you are low weight. (Rare trait always on activating keen senses test error?)
  • Parents reversed on inspect window
  • Steam client failing to close properly, consuming huge amounts of memory.

 

Basically speaking from what I do in game, there is more not working than working correctly.

Seems a bit beyond just tuning, and I have seen all of two comment addressing issues:

Darklords on the 28th, acknowledging points were wrong in lists, saying it would be resolved soon, seemingly a very minor fix, not in patch, still wrong.

Samool on the 6th, saying they believed they had fixed the vehicle speed bugs and would be in next update and mentioning tweaks later - also apparently didn't make the patch as they didn't regain any speed.

 

Edited by Delone
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I have to agree to Delone. I completely stopped breeding except to a few donkeys, and aborted training AH (which I initially raised by 1 level to 61.28). I am one of those who hate foal killing, and that seems to become inevitable with the patch. I am only raising AH at a subbed alt in order to care for one more animal. Also, the breaking of carts as a means of transportation is nothing trivial. A weight limit of 50 support beams (given 900 were possible before) is simply intolerable, and leaving the community with some statements "it is worked on" does not restore trust in the competence and transparence of the development work, nor the hope that any level of QA will ever be introduced to Wurm.

Edited by Ekcin
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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

I have to agree to Delone. I completely stopped breeding except to a few donkeys, and aborted training AH (which I initially raised by 1 level to 61.28). I am one of those who hate foal killing, and that seems to become inevitable with the patch. I am only raising AH at a subbed alt in order to care for one more animal. Also, the breaking of carts as a means of transportation is nothing trivial. A weight limit of 50 support beams (given 900 were possible before) is simply intolerable, and leaving the community with some statements "it is worked on" does not restore trust in the competence and transparence of the development work, nor the hope that any level of QA will ever be introduced to Wurm.

I have to agree with Ekcin. As it is AH is useless, Even if you have a perfect breeding pair as parents they still breed crap offspring. No way we can breed good horses/hell horses anymore consistently. Sure we might get a lucky shot but we need to

to be able to breed consistent offspring based on parents traits.

 

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7 hours ago, DemonaNightshade said:

 

Things are being fine tuned and worked on, which has been said multiple times.

 

What about there were no fixes or patch notes on June 10th? What about the claims of fixes pending that came and went? A trident skin is not a fix, sleep bonus is not a fix. I'm not demanding an immediate fix per se, but when you imply fixes are coming on June 10th, and then we're on June 15th and there's no fixes and no communication on when they will be coming, or what is going on, the community which has been patient becomes increasingly frustrated. We don't know what's going on and are left to assume the worst. Is this intentional? Does anyone even care? Is everyone just watching cat videos on YouTube all day? Are there technical issues which are causing problems?

 

We're not asking anyone to bare their soul, but a little communication would go a long way. A bandaid fix such as just adding a temporary base speed adjustment to carts would be well received by the community. 

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