Ekcin

Revert vehicle speed nerf

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Posted (edited)

The vehicle speed nerf is one of the worst QoL destructions I have seen in over 3 years of Wurm. It renders the large cart close to useless, or at least to less than a tiny fraction of its former use. It is not possible anymore to reasonably transport ore, shards, logs etc. in acceptable quantities. Even more absurd it becomes with support beams. The bit over 3k weight which let vehicle speed collapse at ql 70+ (won't imagine where with the ql15+ carts of new players) is the eqivalent of 52 suppport beams and bit less weighty stuff in my case. It is probably impossible to transport a few hundred beams for larger mining and tunnel projects without a wagon (did not yet test the consequences for wagons but am expecting the worst here too).

 

In short, revert that inconsiderate, and as usual untested disaster.

Edited by Ekcin
typo
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Posted (edited)

I had 3 large crates with 300 dirt in each and my large cart went down to 4km/h.  It did seem super realistic though.....  I went and got my Wagon - Speed was around 10km/h with 12 large crates filled up with 300 Dirt (I think).  Wagon pulled by Bison.   I know that the Speed Nerf will also slow down my collecting of old ruin items too.  Since the more stuff I collect, the more slow the wagon gets...

Edited by Zexos
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Posted (edited)

It is even worse. A large cart with a single small crate with support beams will already suffer a speed collapse. I do not need "realistic" stuff of that kind. May as well stop playing Wurm as RL is more "realistic".

When my woodcutting was lower, I used to collect the logs from rift sites after combat with my cart, and I saw other players doing the same. One more point where this nonsense is destroying gameplay and fun.

Edited by Ekcin
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Posted (edited)

Wurm is already very timeconsuming when it comes to traveling, it could use a buff more then anything else.

 

It might be faster in the long run when pure-blood drafters and speeders are bred, but the speed should have been kept unchanged (loaded/unloaded carts/wagons) and then use those top breeds to buff the speed further.

That way players who dont have the silver or time to produce such animals can keep carting around at the same speed they always have.

Edited by Lycanthropic
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Posted (edited)

In fact, the nerf hurts newer and lower level players most. Not only that their carts are of lower ql, they frequently use low trait or wild hitches, mainly horses (I even used bulls quite some time). And until having FC40 minimum, they cannot craft a wagon, which itself suffers from its lower ql. So it becomes a pay2win scheme.

Edited by Ekcin
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Posted (edited)

I have to agree with this 100%! Losing 25-30% of cart speed on the day of the AH update is very drastic and is a huge QOL nerf. Sure with full draft horses speeds may return back to where they were for YEARS (no one knows if they will), but that could be months away from happening and we were told in the patch notes that there would not be a noticeable difference for vehicle speeds. Losing up to 30% of our current speed is unacceptable and makes daily use of carts and wagons not only undesirable, but just about useless now.

 

Please Fix This!!!!

Edited by gnomegates
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I'm in agreement. Especially for players who used to try to get away from trolls and the like on their carts, this is a very frustrating change.

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Posted (edited)

To add a few data, partially in a different thread already:

 

Cart ql 71.69 , adamantine rune of Magranon attached (vehicle speed +10%)

Hitches: Ebony male 90 trait points, 4 speed 2 draft (25 draft), ebony female 80 trait points 3 speed 2 draft (25 draft)

Speed on pavement, unloaded: 15.16 km/h

Speed on pavement, 1 large crate, weight 3639.67: 7.92 km/h

 

To add. the speed does not deteriorate further with full load, e.g. 3 large crates with logs, ca. 7236kg each, but is equally slow with a single small crate with more than 60 support beams. On a 20 slope, speed is 4.73 km/h. As Yldrania mentioned, that is a death spell for all lower FS players, and even a higher FS one may need to mount a lead extra horse to shrug off large trains of mobs in adverse regions.

 

Edit: Moreover, the mechanic is buggy. After unloading the 3 crates with logs to the rack I took them from, the speed was still 7.92 until I dismounted and remounted. Yet I ask for removal, not fix. And as a remark: Speed reduction loaded vs. empty is about 48%, compared to post patch speed. Before, this cart always ran at 17-20 speed on plain roads,

 

Edited by Ekcin
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Oh yes....I already feel bad for the new players.

They will not be amused and neither would I be if I started Wurm after the last update.

 

Wurm is already one of the slowest when it comes to Transportation.

Why did we need this nerf again? I agree with Lycanthropic that Wurm actually needs buffs or at least not this disaster.

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13 minutes ago, Berms said:

Wurm is already one of the slowest when it comes to Transportation.

 

 

Devs really dropped the ball on this one. Instead of making carts 10% faster they went into the opposite wrong direction, making transports even slower. 

Cause every player that rode a car in GTA said "Gee, this slow car is awesome!" or players riding a bike in motocross saying "Wow, this snail bike is great, add more!". 

 

Really, what was the rationale behind purposefully slowing things in an already tedious and slow game? Padding? Making the game seem "longer" ? This does nothing but anger your playerbase. 

Want a good change? I'd rather you add a few % to cart speeds as as good chance instead of leaving this as is. Here's holding my breath. 

 

I took my deed cart for a spin moving some stuff around today and empty with 2 horses having 2 draft traits each and 80+ ql with 90 woa gear I got 20 km/ph empty cart. Loaded with 2 large crates it dropped to 15 km/ph. 

 

This crap is really insulting. What's next? Are boats too fast? Should be expect a new nerf there too? 

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Hmm.. I have just used my 60ish ql wagon and 4x good ol' 5 trait horses, variably good horseshoes. The wagon carted around at 17-18km/h with 12 empty crates and with 10 full crates of dirt it lowered to 14-15km/h. Not the hige speed drops you see so I do not know what circumstances cause that issue. My wagon has no speed rune either.

I honesty don't see any slowdown.

Tried on Cele.

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So have people already tested the speed with max draft trait horses or bisons? As the change log for example mentions:

  • Having all draft traits will give a speed bonus instead of speed traits when a creature is hitched.

 

Now I assume the devs worked out exactly how fast large carts and wagons will be with which animals with which traits, at certain loads. Perhaps what we need is for them to release that information, give us some graphs, etc. If there are indeed issues then that should reveal the full extend of them. And if there aren't issues but we simply don't have the right animals yet then at least we now that this is just temporary.

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12 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

So have people already tested the speed with max draft trait horses or bisons? As the change log for example mentions:

  • Having all draft traits will give a speed bonus instead of speed traits when a creature is hitched.

 

Now I assume the devs worked out exactly how fast large carts and wagons will be with which animals with which traits, at certain loads. Perhaps what we need is for them to release that information, give us some graphs, etc. If there are indeed issues then that should reveal the full extend of them. And if there aren't issues but we simply don't have the right animals yet then at least we now that this is just temporary.

Point is, it was really unnecessary for there to be such a harsh nerf to carts and wagons to begin with. New players get royally screwed, and suggesting they just go and breed a full team of max draft animals just so they can have some form of reasonable use of a vehicle is just... dumb.

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I share many of the concerns in this thread. Really any negative change to speeds of carts and wagons should be undone. The question really is what good does the change serve? This is a huge qol change in the wrong direction in a game that really can't afford it in my opinion. 

 

My other concern is what happened to the whole thing about testing things more on test and getting feedback and that somebody was taken onto the team to be in charge of patch testing etc? Or was that just thrown out again.

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Posted (edited)

To appraise what the nerf does to beginners, I hitched two aged wild horses I fished out of Lake Vrock. Same cart as before, ql 71.69 , adamantine rune of Magranon attached (vehicle speed +10%).

Speed empty or with light load: 13:00 km/h , loaded as before, large crate  (3640kg) 5.74 km/h on plain pavement. 20 slope up 3.88 km/h .

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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said before, will say it again. Transportation in wurm was a joke and after the update is pathetic at best. Carts, horses, wagons etc on land should be least 10kmh faster that before update, not slower. And ships should be 30 kmh faster as a base speed against wind. You wanna sail one server to another and back - better have 2 movies ready to watch on netflix as its that intense sailing and gaming...

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So, its been a few days.

 

I no longer use my large cart, it is just too slow now; getting home with it was just hellish.

 

Living on the road from a cart (carrying everything with you) is no longer really viable; you might manage it with a wagon if you don't mind fighting a lot of trolls.

 

Overall, this is not just a loss of quality of life, it has removed a possible way of life from wurm.  Without changes to help balance this, it's not hard to see why people are upset.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Jaz said:

Hmm.. I have just used my 60ish ql wagon and 4x good ol' 5 trait horses, variably good horseshoes. The wagon carted around at 17-18km/h with 12 empty crates and with 10 full crates of dirt it lowered to 14-15km/h. Not the hige speed drops you see so I do not know what circumstances cause that issue. My wagon has no speed rune either.

I honesty don't see any slowdown.

Tried on Cele.

Wagons do not seem to be equally affected. I have a 68ql wagon with zinc rune of Magranon (+5% size +5% speed) with 4 "classic 5sp horses", only 2 with horseshoes ql75 avg but no or low WoA. Speed on plain ground is 12.94 km/h, I recall that it was somewhat higher before the patch but not a lot (certainly not 20+km/h). But even with large crates, 3xlogs (7236kg) 9xdirt/shards (6020kg) the wagon was not slower. Speed uphill of 6.56km/h was unimpressive both cases.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

To appraise what the nerf does to beginners, I hitched two aged wild horses I fished out of Lake Vrock. Same cart as before, ql 71.69 , adamantine rune of Magranon attached (vehicle speed +10%).

Speed empty or with light load: 13:00 km/h , loaded as before, large crate  (3640kg) 5.74 km/h on plain pavement. 20 slope up 3.88 km/h .

newbie killer uphill with a train of mobs

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

Wagons do not seem to be equally affected. I have a 68ql wagon with zinc rune of Magranon (+5% size +5% speed) with 4 "classic 5sp horses", only 2 with horseshoes ql75 avg but no or low WoA. Speed on plain ground is 12.94 km/h, I recall that it was somewhat higher before the patch but not a lot (certainly not 20+km/h). But even with large crates, 3xlogs (7236kg) 9xdirt/shards (6020kg) the wagon was not slower. Speed uphill of 6.56km/h was unimpressive both cases.

 

I've been noticing the same with my wagon, barely any noticeable difference with 13 full large crates compared to the last months. So far it mostly sounds like large carts got shafted.

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3 hours ago, Tek said:

what happened to the whole thing about testing things more on test and getting feedback and that somebody was taken onto the team to be in charge of patch testing etc? Or was that just thrown out again.

Seems like another typical 'We're the devs, it's our game, who cares what the players think' kind of move.. Sad that this game has so much potential but so little care for the QOL of the community. Wonder how many players and potential players we're going to lose over this one..

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How long will it take to breed new draft horses/bison with good traits to test the changes with appropriate traits?

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This is why having communication between devs and players is quintessential to good development BEFORE the update kicks in. 


imagine if two months ago ago we would have had this following convo:

 

Demona: "Hey guys, a part of the update is that carts/wagons will be slowed down if you dont have draft horses."

Players : Ok, by how much?

Demona: Depends, but around 25% to 30%, even more if horses have no traits.

Players : What? What about our old 5 speeders? Will they be of any use?

Demona: Not really, all of them will not be that useful for carts and wagons.

Players: Please see how this is a mistake and not code it in the first place. Why kill vehicle speeds in the slowest game in the world?

Demona : hmmm, I see your point, I'll talk t o the team and see what we can do to not nerf vehicle speeds like this. New players might be disenfranchised the most by it.

Players : Glad you see our point and thought this through, we'll await for the update when it kicks in.

Demona: Our pleasure, this is why maintaning comms is important.

 

This conversation of course is part of an alternate reality. I tried using 2 wild horses btw with a regular 50 ql cart. This is a joke. 

PS: I'm not attacking demona or anything, but the higher ups need to figure out how communication works and stop beating wurm to death with bad updates. It's like we're doing the same thing for 7 years now.  Two steps forward, break an ankle then two steps back. 

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Using same animals with the same gear before and after update.

 

i was getting 22-23 kmh on my cart max before update. Now completely empty it does 18.00. With 3 empty crates , 6 empty cauldrons, full barrel of water it does 18.00. Improved the cart from 40 to 71 Ql no change still 18.00. Load the 3 crates full of dirt it drops to average 15.12. 

 

My wagon did 18-19 before update. I keep 10 empty crates, smelter and barrel of water in it. After update it does 17.28 so not a big change for the wagon. With those 10 crates full of dirt it drops to 14.39 It is currently 39ql. I havent bothered to imp it up to see if ql will make a difference. 

 

For the cart If we compare fully loaded speed before and after update  we see a 7-8 Kmh change.

For the wagon we see its ~4 to 5 kmh change.

It does look like the wagon got a bit less of the nerf stick than the cart.

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3 hours ago, Bramson said:

How long will it take to breed new draft horses/bison with good traits to test the changes with appropriate traits?

 

So far for me, after breeding a couple hundred foals I have not yet had one with the new strong legs trait for draft (not to be confused with very strong legs) and this is not even labelled as one of the rare ones.

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