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The Horse Traits Thread (and other animals)

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They certainly tweaked the chance up for twin and immortal traits last patch I only had a few prior and killed them off because they were on foals not worth keeping. The higher chance has made it so some at least are worth keeping and the twin one is pretty funny, they birth identical twins (right down to the name even) and not fraternal twins which with the crappy way things works just means you end up killing twice as many horses, if they were fraternal you could at least get a second chance for something you don't want to murder.

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I made another immortal floof! This time a donkey.

 

Jimmy, male donkey, grey.

[19:37:53] It can carry more than average. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It seems immortal. It seems more friendly. It seems to be a graceful eater. It is easy on its gear. It has a slow metabolism. It looks stationary. It has been bred in captivity.

Parents: Dastardly, male donkey, grey, 1 draft (rare), sparky, healthy, graceful, stationary. Sadder, female donkey, grey, 4 draft (1 rare), slow metabolism, stationary, seems more friendly, vibrant.

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I got my first immortal Bison today. Unfortunately it has such a mix bag of other traits it's mostly useless, but...

 

Also, the other day I got a first, a mixed trait speed with draft foal.

Just finished re-arranging my breeding pens for more mixed pairs to see if it was more then a fluke.

 

tMAW47s.png

 

 

Also can confirm Picks up stuff is working, as already reported elsewhere. So far all Ive seen are frags (which are useless to me, but "landlords" wife is happy about as she can grind on them) , but someone in the alliance have reported getting veggie drops a couple times. Seems stationary is working...a bit too well. I mean, them little @%*#%! don't move at all...ever.

 

Males over females lately seem to be a bit off kilter though.

Edited by Elisha
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Congrats on the babies! I have a few drafts with speed traits and speeds with draft traits. I'm trying to breed them together to get good mixes. I'm also getting many more boys than girls at the moment.

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Im hoping it's not just a happy fluke. After breeding 12 pairs of the old mixed venerables for a several months skilling up and not getting a single mixed offspring (speed and draft, got a lot of other mixes) I gave up that it was going to happen and split the second gen into speeds and drafts solely. The only reason i had those two mated up was just to retain the color. Either way Id be a winner. Sometimes drop a speed, sometimes drop a draft.

 

I still kept a few specific matched trait pairs, but most of the rest Ive mixed back up hoping this happens more often.

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Father : [14:06:26] It has fleeter movement than normal. It has lightning movement. It has very strong leg muscles. It seems accustomed to water. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It seems more friendly. It has been bred in captivity.  

4 speed traits, 1 misc, 1 combat trait

 

Mother : [14:06:56] It has fleeter movement than normal. It has lightning movement. It has very strong leg muscles. It seems accustomed to water. It has a slow metabolism. It looks stationary. It has been bred in captivity. 

4 speed traits, 2 misc

 

Foal : [14:07:32] It has very strong leg muscles. It seems accustomed to water. It looks unusually strong and healthy. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It seems to be a graceful eater. It has a slow metabolism. It looks stationary. It has been bred in captivity. 

5 misc traits, 2 speed traits

 

Something is very very off in this situation. Bred at 80 AH 

Edited by elentari

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@ElishaI haven't worked out much pattern on how to get them in the first place, but once you have 2 you can breed them together and pass the traits on.

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Well, I got 26 pairs going. Most are still dropping foals from their previous pairings, so it will be a while before i can see any results.

 

Even if it is finally working I don't expect RNG to work in my favor and drop 26 mixed foals, but hoping I get at least 2 or 3 out of it, specially considering im only at 76 AH and not on Defiance or Epic with sped up breeding times.

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10 hours ago, Elisha said:

Well, I got 26 pairs going. Most are still dropping foals from their previous pairings, so it will be a while before i can see any results.

 

Even if it is finally working I don't expect RNG to work in my favor and drop 26 mixed foals, but hoping I get at least 2 or 3 out of it, specially considering im only at 76 AH and not on Defiance or Epic with sped up breeding times.

 

Curious: why would you want mixed traits? The minority trait will be killed in the next generation, as you have already seen hundreds of times.

 

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Because the a good rider needs both speed traits and a couple of specific draft traits.

 

And what I saw was months ago. They've made some tweaks since then. That's what I'm exploring. If you cant mix traits from different categories, then the whole system is broke and needs to be trashed.

 

The only "dominate trait" category that completely wipes everything has been the speed traits. All other traits, since day one, have been able to mix. Speed is the only one that cancels everything. So the whole "dominate trait" thing is bs. it's not dominate trait, it's simply speed over riding everything if any parent has one.

Edited by Elisha

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I made two rare babies today! First a rare draft donkey. I now have both rare draft traits in my donkey line.

 

Logan 'Berry', male donkey, grey.

[18:40:34] It has a strong body. It can carry more than average. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It seems more nimble than normal. It has strong legs. It is easy on its gear. It has a slow metabolism. It has been bred in captivity.

Parents: Scruffy, male donkey, grey, 4 draft, sparky, stationary, vibrant. Lame Duck, female donkey, grey, 4 draft, slow metabolism, stationary, vibrant.

 

And now a foal that can make twins! She's inherited that trait from her mother and is her mother's first baby.

 

Tarinana, female blood bay.

[18:43:45] It has a strong body. It has a certain spark in its eyes. It seems more friendly. It seems to pick stuff up. It has strong legs. It is easy on its gear. It has a chance to produce twins. It has a slow metabolism. It has been bred in captivity.

Parents: Bitesmaestro, male blood bay, 4 draft, sparky, vibrant, picks stuff up. Jadepie, female white, 3 draft, sparky, healthy, slow metabolism, chance to produce twins, seems more friendly.

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Got my second mixed trait foal

F9Oqk36.png

 

Still heavy on the draft, light on the speed. I really want the opposite, but this is looking good that it wasn't just a fluke.

 

Funny though, both appaloosa, but got a blood bay

 

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A third mix

 

ZbmTDBr.png

 

As you can see, one was also a draft.

 

So, I started with 26. I had to drop a pair since I screwed up and they were related, so that dropped it to 25. 2 post venerable mothers died, so that droped me down 23 pairs.

 

Out of 23 Ive had, so far

 

3 success (albeit with bleh traits, but this about showing it works, not about getting the perfect breeding pair)

4 failures (sorry didst think about taking screenies)...this draft, one speed, and 2 speed mixed with combat.

 

So I'm getting almost a 50% success rate so far.

 

Oh, to note, one of those failures, the speed, was from the same pair that I got the first speed/draft mixed from, the two gold horses.

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Ok, so a few days ago I finally got a 2x speed with 2x draft, and today I got a 4x speed with 1x draft

 

Better results as which traits and how many is likely dependent on skill (and proper picking of mating pairs) I'm not expecting solid results until I get much higher AH.

 

I also managed to get 2 males, so I will have future breeding pairs to see if dual traits will carry over or if mixing traits is more like breeding mules. It only carries once so you have to breed separate pairs then get them together. Unfortunately the only old 5 speed venerable I have left are two males.

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I mentioned this before, but it still on my mind. Why again are mules better at dragging carts than horses? I have a 5draft ebony horse that goes unused because 4draft mules are faster. Is that really intended?

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13 hours ago, Josso said:

mules are faster. Is that really intended?

While I have no idea what's intended, I can make a couple of observations.

1. Mules take more work and in general Wurm makes more difficult things functionally better then easier alternatives.

2. (Conspiracy mind you) Wurm breeders have off and on asked for a gelding feature, most likely to preserve their income, and now mules in a way provide this.

Edited by Ogare
grammer
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5 hours ago, Ogare said:

While I have no idea what's intended, I can make a couple of observations.

1. Mules take more work and in general Wurm makes more difficult things functionally better then easier alternatives.

2. (Conspiracy mind you) Wurm breeders have off and on asked for a gelding feature, most likely to preserve their income, and now mules in a way provide this.


I appreciate the answer but I am not sure I agree with your observations.
I breed mules and I do not see how they take more work than horses. Definitely not in the long run.
Breeders could still sell sterile mules if they were just as fast as horses.

But a 4 draft trait mule without a rare trait being faster than a 5 draft trait horse with a rare trait, that seems weirdly balanced to me.
Imagine showing someone all your beautiful and strong ebony, blood bay and appaloosa draft horses and then telling them "But we don't use these, our real champs are over there" and then you point at the tiny mules who all share the same grey texture. They would think you are joking, wouldn't they? That is how I feel about the situation.

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1 hour ago, Josso said:

But a 4 draft trait mule without a rare trait being faster than a 5 draft trait horse with a rare trait, that seems weirdly balanced to me.

 

The rare draft traits don't add to base speed, so there's the explanation.

I assure you most people still prefer horses (or hell horses or bison), so the addition of mules has actually been well thought out and implemented by the devs.

 

 

Edited by CistaCista
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I've had maybe 3-4 mule orders total, but I'm completely overwhelmed with orders for draft horses. I use both horses and mules (and occasionally donkeys) for my personal transport.

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Frist off I don't think this thread is the place to object/complain/suggest about AH. I thought folks here where just discussing how breeding works.

 

 

17 hours ago, Josso said:

I breed mules and I do not see how they take more work than horses. Definitely not in the long run.

In order to breed draft/speed mules you first need donkey AND horses. How can you not see that needing to breed two different animals up and maintaining that breeding stock is more work? I guess I can agree that the effort to do a single breed action with a horse and donkey is the same as horse and horse. But we simply can't discredit the work to get the point where one can breed the donkey and horse. Also, don't discredit the extra deed space to support donkey, horse and mules. 

 

If Wurm makes mules and horses the same, then buyers will almost always want horses. Horses can be breed (the buyer can make more) and as you point out they look better. 

It seems to me your using straw-man to try and justify your real problem - Mules (the mechanically optimal animal) are the best animals but they are ugly and boring looking. Plus, in real life they are by no means better than a pure bread horse.

I personally don't care what the animals look like. Frankly, I'd be ecstatic if we could craft a big rolling ball that gets hitched to vehicles to pull them around.

Edited by Ogare

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16 hours ago, Ogare said:

I personally don't care what the animals look like.

 

That's the problem right there, it's a simple miscommunication between you and the other guy.

You are blissfully ignoring that there is 1 mule coat but 13 horse coats. You are assuming the end goal is just have 4-draft horses, but that is not the end goal at all for most players in Wurm, and definitely not if you want to sell horses.

 

Just buy one 4-draft male donkey for 1 silver and you can breed mules forever. No need to ever breed donkeys.

Likewise, if there was only 1 horse coat, the price of horses would be lower than the price of mules. We would all be retired from breeding now, and our deeds would be much smaller :D

 

 

Edited by CistaCista
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I actually like the mule texture, though it would be nice if there was more variety. What I'd really like to see though is mules being bigger, closer to a horse size like they are in real life.

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:34 AM, CistaCista said:

 

The rare draft traits don't add to base speed, so there's the explanation.

I assure you most people still prefer horses (or hell horses or bison), so the addition of mules has actually been well thought out and implemented by the devs.

 

 

When normal draft traits add speed, but the (really) rare traits do not, I return to my original question: Is this intended?
I must be surrounded by more min-maxers than you. Everyone gladly takes the mules off me to upgrade from bison/horses.

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17 hours ago, Ogare said:

 

Frist off I don't think this thread is the place to object/complain/suggest about AH. I thought folks here where just discussing how breeding works.

 

Take a look at the topic, and then reread my post. Asking why a 4-trait draft animal is faster than an objectively bigger and stronger 5-trait draft animal seems pertinent to the topic to me.

 

In order to breed draft/speed mules you first need donkey AND horses. How can you not see that needing to breed two different animals up and maintaining that breeding stock is more work? I guess I can agree that the effort to do a single breed action with a horse and donkey is the same as horse and horse. But we simply can't discredit the work to get the point where one can breed the donkey and horse. Also, don't discredit the extra deed space to support donkey, horse and mules.


I just grabbed some donkeys from the steppes and keep breeding them with my 4draft mares, which more often than not gets me 3 or 4-draft mules. It really couldn't be easier imo.

 

If Wurm makes mules and horses the same, then buyers will almost always want horses. Horses can be breed (the buyer can make more) and as you point out they look better.

Yes, and how is that a bad thing? Horses allow for more variety, which is generally regarded as a good thing. Once people wise up to the fact that mules are some 25% faster than horses, this variety will slowly diminish. There was already lots of discussion about the 3% speed increase of ebony horses killing variety, and now they add a rather ugly animal and give it a 25% bonus? Makes no sense to me.

It seems to me your using straw-man to try and justify your real problem - Mules (the mechanically optimal animal) are the best animals but they are ugly and boring looking. Plus, in real life they are by no means better than a pure bread horse.

You are using that word wrong. If you think otherwise please show me where I misrepresented facts to suit my argument.

I personally don't care what the animals look like. Frankly, I'd be ecstatic if we could craft a big rolling ball that gets hitched to vehicles to pull them around.

I applaud your verbosity, given that you don't even care about the topic.

 

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I'm surprised you managed to get 3 and 4 draft mules from 0 trait donkeys, I certainly haven't managed that! I'm trying to make some 4 draft mules at the moment for an order, and out of 4 pairings of 4 draft donkeys and 4 draft horses I've made 1 4 draft mule and 3 3 drafts.

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