CistaCista

New mysteries of animal breeding

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2 hours ago, elentari said:

Not sure if this helps or not, but can anyone confirm wild horses don't spawn anymore in the steppe biome? used to be they were coded to spawn mostly in the steppe but now donkeys seem to have replaced horse spawning entirely. 

I've noticed this when I attempted to gather a wild horse group to do some fresh breeding with some new stock. I am uncertain this happened post-update or not. But the amount of donkeys on Epic right now is a bit absurd. 

I have seen ONE, ONE wild horse or at least such outline somewhere far on a mountain hill - these EXIST, but yes.. there's a plague of asses on the servers currently.. the donkey spawns are too high.. great for noobs(that aren't that plentyfull), maybe copy or slightly raise the spawn rate of wild boars? These seem common, useless and easy to find en masse.

Aren't horses easy to find spawning and 'drowning' on server borders anymore?

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As for the drowning part, I've seen few horses on the server borders of Desertion so something right is happening in that regard. I can reliably report in the past years there were around 200- 300 swimming horses on the North side of Desertion. Now there's maybe 5-6 of them. I haven't seen that many on Deliverance either, takes a while to find enough to lead home. 

 

However the donkey spawns are insane. I don't mind domestic animals taking more % of the total mob pool, I wouldn't mind if it would be 70% domestic 30% hostile , but considering donkeys are supposed to be a low tier animal for non prems, there seems to be a bit too many of them around compared to wild horse spawns. And I don't think anyone would argue the utility of horses vs donkeys....unless we're heading to a donkey domination development over our former cabalines. 

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15 hours ago, ChampagneDragon said:

I'm out of this thread. It's pointless. We get a single reply from Demona ten days ago, not really saying anything, and dead silence since.  They screwed up another aspect of Wurm that I loved. 

 

Fix is coming in the next few mins. I had no other information to give, sorry. Was also waiting myself for the fix. You are not the only one who has not been playing much since the update, as you well know since we share the same alliance and both share a love of our animals.

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It is sad that three of the things I enjoyed most about Wurm Online (horses and breeding their functional offspring with great degree of consistency, carting around with nice speed, and the ability to safely use a wagon to haul heavy loads back to deed) were destroyedcall in one go.

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I have been doing another count and can so far confirm what Yserin said in the other thread:

Traits within the dominant category seem to be drawn completely at random!

 

I so far counted 30 foals where each parent had the 3 classic speed traits.

6 foals (20 %) came out with just 2 speed traits or less

14 foals (47 %) came out with 3 speed traits.

10 foals (33 %) came out with 4 speed traits.

 

Here is the thing: of the 14 foals with 3 traits, 8 (57%) of them had switched one of the traits and introduced the water trait instead. 

Only 6 of the foals had the 3 classic traits and no water trait.

 

That is so many with water trait that it certainly looks like these 4 traits are simply drawn at random.

 

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Posted (edited)

thank you for checking this. I am disappointed that my experience wasnt an outlier oof. I hope this is a bug.

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
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Posted (edited)

Also, update on whether neutral traits get inherited or not.

 

I am now up to 20 foals with neutral traits that I have counted, and 12 of these foals actuallly did share a neutral trait with one of the parents.

That is 60 % had inherited a neutral trait, a very high percentage.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Yserin said:

is it possible to tell if the neutral trait came from the same parent as the dominate set?

 

All the parents that I match have the same dominant category, so I cannot make such a distinction.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Just for fun I did a search for one horse, she has given birth 26 times and not passed on tough bugger once. That is a 0% transfer rate, pretty low I'd say :)

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Posted (edited)

-

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)

Updates on some counts I have been doing!

 

1) Are neutral traits inherited or not?

I have now counted 50 foals where a parent had a neutral trait, and the foal also had one or more neutral traits.

 

Do these foals share a neutral trait with their parent? As explained before, the expected probability is 3-5 % for this to happen.

The observed ratio however is that 18 out of the 50 foals, or 36 % of the foals did indeed share a neutral trait with their parent.

 

2) Are traits within the dominant category randomly drawn with respect to the cost?

This is a great theory that was presented by Yserin, and it might be partly true.

 

In a count of 64 draft traits on foals with 3 draft traits or less I find these frequencies:

20 Carry more (cost 20)

19 Strong body (cost 15)

16 Easy on gear (cost 10)

9 Strong legs (cost 20)

 

You see three things here.

a) The most common traits are more than twice as common as Strong Legs

b) The "old" traits that I had in my old horses (CM and SB) are the most numerous in the foals that come out, strongly suggesting that the traits from the parents are passed on.

c) But also, Easy on Gear (cost 10) is much more common in my foals than Strong Legs (cost 20).

 

In other words, there is some probability of passing traits from parents to foal, but looks like there is also a weighting of the individual traits.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Has anything been fixed or did they just double down on this horrible AH update?

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Posted (edited)

People say wagon/ cart speed slightly fixed. Breeding is still random and broken.  Think of it this way: A 90 skill weaponsmith uses high ql silver and supreme tools to try and create a huge axe. He has to wait a week for the axe to be created in the forge. After a week he opens the forge and finds a low ql tin axe (even when he used high ql silver to create it) with some cracks in the weapon. These cracks can only be repaired if the weaponsmith pays a priest to cast the weapon. The axe can't be imped other than fixing the cracks even though the smith has 90 skill and high ql tools and mats. Instead, the smith must try again and again. If he is lucky, the resulting axe can be the same colour as the tools he used to create the axe, that is if his creation tools even had a nice colour. Added to this, the amount of weapons on a deed now has a cap and if the smith exceeds this amount, his creations will get random negative casts like "this weapon will splinter in your hands" or "this weapon will poof randomly even if it has no damage". Also, casts on weapons are totally predetermined by RNG and can only ever be either speed or more damage, never both. Forget all rounder weapons forever. Would the  smiths and their clients like this update?

Edited by Fairyshine
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29 minutes ago, Liandal30 said:

Has anything been fixed or did they just double down on this horrible AH update?

 

They did some changes. Negative traits have become very rare after tweaking, coats are now inherited much of the time, they claim to have made traits more inheritable as well.

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Posted (edited)

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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Posted (edited)

I am still doing counts on trait inheritance. 

I do see traits and coats being inherited in many foals, I believe the probability is not quite as high as before, but it certainly happens - stories that it never happens seem to be exaggerated.

 

I just got this foal this morning for example. You can see it's identical to the mother, and they have same coat. Also both are exactly at my AH skill cap of 65.

 

270Udbh.png

 

 

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Posted (edited)

Here's an update on my statistics again.

 

1) Are neutral traits inherited or not?

a) I have now counted 100 foals where a parent had a neutral trait, and the foal also had one or more neutral traits.

36 out of the 100 foals (36 %) did indeed share a neutral trait with their parent.

 

b) I have also started counting a more precise measure.  

In this case, the mother has exactly 1 neutral trait, and the foal also has exactly 1 neutral trait. Is it then the same trait as the mother, or a random trait?

The observed ratio so far is that 5 out of 16 foals (31 %) had the same trait as the mother.

 

2) Are traits within the dominant category randomly drawn, maybe randomly drawn according to the cost?

 

In a count of 97 draft traits on foals with 3 draft traits or less I find these frequencies:

28 Carry more (cost 20)

30 Strong body (cost 15)

26 Easy on gear (cost 10)

13 Strong legs (cost 20)

 

In a count of 81 speed traits on foals with 3 speed traits or less I find these frequencies:

18 Water trait (cost 10)

21 Very strong leg muscles (cost 10)

25 Fleeter (cost 10)

17 Lightning (cost 20)

 

We can notice that of the 2 new draft traits, Strong Legs is exactly half as common as EASY, and it also costs twice as much.

The expensive speed trait, Lightning, is appearing to *maybe* becoming the more uncommon of the 4 traits.

 

It indicates that these traits are selected in a compromise of drawing the traits from parents, and a random draw weighted by cost.

I say that parents traits matter, because Carry More and Strong Body are still the most common traits in my foals - more common than the new traits.

 

 

Edited by CistaCista
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Thanks Cista. Still looks like 66% of trait transmissing being RNG, many foals to be culled, and no chance, even at AH95+, to ever breed the old good trait mix ("115 trait points"). I am out of that. Sad thing.

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Posted (edited)

Ill also give an update on my tough bugger pair...

 

75 foals born (just to this pair) since the update and 0% with tough bugger

 

Its really easy to think that they transfer fine and think a little loss is acceptable when you are just tracking the common more heavily weighted ones

 

can you imagine not even fluking one in seventy five lol, now imagine if this was on freedom where gestation and cool downs are ridiculously long

Edited by SmeJack
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I just imagine it's speed/draft transferring at 50:50 or it seems like speed have better odds(it's more common from what I've experienced), rest is .. rng to not get 'main' combination of speed traits from 1 parent.. possibly.. mix of both parents' main traits.. and then just fills up the rest with random misc/combat/output.. old trait inheritance of all traits and improvement based gone, given old system seemed to just add more random traits if skill allowed and there was some rng involved.. it was practically kid's game to 'clone' animals and have useful stock of cart-pullers

just a thought.. what was intended and how things are.. lets see in that post we all expect to read

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41 minutes ago, SmeJack said:

Ill also give an update on my tough bugger pair...

 

75 foals born (just to this pair) since the update and 0% with tough bugger

 

Same here, though with far less attempts, only breeding for fun and for my little alliance. All my 18 pre-patch horses have the following traits:

 

0UU8jcI.png

 

All the horses bred after the patch
- never have any draft trait

- never have the tough bugger trait.

 

The speed and miscellaneous traits get passed on to the offspring in about 50% of all cases, that would be okay. However, that adds up to only 65 traits points. Then the game tries to fill up 90 traits points by randomly adding other negative, miscellaneous and output traits I guess. Seen 2 foals with the "It is more friendly" trait too. 

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Posted (edited)

I haven't counted for specific traits, I have just lumped them all in the same category of "neutral". 

 

But I have noticed that especially USH is one of the traits that get passed a lot in my herd. I have also seen the traits Slow Metabolism and Stationary pass for sure, those are all from "Miscellaneous".

 

It makes me wonder, it could be that traits from the "Miscellanous" category have a fine chance of getting passed (along with the main traits), while traits from other categories - such as "Combat" - have no chance.

 

Alternatively, it could be all the traits are listed individually in a hidden ranked list. And only the ones near the top of that list have a good chance of getting passed (along with the main category), while those at the bottom of the hidden list never will be seen in foals, except by lucky random draws.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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5 pages on and all i can reliably conclude is that this is bloody awful xD

 

We need more animals, time, effort and higher skill in order to achieve less. Love it.

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