CistaCista

New mysteries of animal breeding

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Finnn said:

¬†so.. was there any improvement at all or is it a huge overcomplicated headache that isn't fun to deal with..ūü§Ē¬†

 

Do you remember fishing? Sounds a lot like fishing for me....

 

Edited by Bekador
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2 hours ago, Bekador said:

Do you remember fishing? Sounds a lot like fishing for me....

 

Ok, old fishing was removed, many hated that, others like me loved it. But the change did not take away much for daily gameplay. And new fishing, while needing some ironing out of flaws, and some improvements (sound notice e.g.), also some balancing (spear fishing injuries) worked from the beginning.

 

This change deeply affects everyday's gameplay, cripples movement, cripples carts, and makes breeding unpleasant for a large number of players who hate killing animal babies. There may be some good ideas in it, but it is largely a failure, and the pain is felt by almost everyone.

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We have a term for that in german: "Verschlimmbessern" a blend of "verschlimmern" (make something worse) and "verbessern" (make something better). Its used when someone with good intentions tries to improve something but ends making it worse than it was.

 

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Guess i'll go check out WU for now until this is fixed...

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Throughout this update I have made an effort not to criticise what I do not yet understand, but I must say that the one thing that is universally evil about this update is the whole concept of the "categories" mechanism.

 

The devs should ask themselves, what *good* are the "majority" vs. "minority" categories expected to do? Why should they be in game if they contribute nothing worthwhile?

 

Giving us more traits, more difficulty, is a wonderful idea, but there is nothing about more traits that necessitates the categories. Breeders are perfectly capable of matching, improving, adding to our breeding pairs, working slowly towards the ideal of speed or draft horses we want, based on the very many traits available.

 

Devs, please note this: the categories are not making it more difficult, nor more easy, to make the perfect speed and draft horses. So why are they in the game?

Every breeder already has made plenty of 4-speed horses, and there are 4-draft horses around as well. The categories only make the breeding process more artificial by violently removing secondary traits that would naturally be inherited from the parent horses, replacing them with other random traits. That is all they do, and it is a really really stupid and depressing mechanism.

 

Other problems like speed of carts can and will be improved with better horses, or can be fixed by patches. But please get rid of the categories, they destroy the breeding experience.

 

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I often take long breaks from playing WO. Over the years I've always kept up at least one deed to house my horses, & whatever other critters I was into breeding at the time.

 

I went to such extremes as logging on alts to groom before breeding in a years long effort to not allow my mains AH to hit 60 because the old system was broken. 

 

I have several alts I created solely to grind AH on so that they could care for all the breeding stock I wanted to keep. Now I have quite a few "clean" 5spd horses, in an array of colors, that I spent a lot of time & money on who have apparently been rendered virtually worthless overnight. I feel robbed of all the money I spent buying silver for upkeep & premium for AH alts. It was all for nothing thanks to this update. 

 

When the fishing update dropped I hated it but out of respect for Tich I tried to keep my mouth shut. This is worse though because, as others have pointed out, while it's possible to simply avoid fishing it's NOT possible to play the game in any depth without this crap affecting you.

 

If I'd logged in today & been told that mules & draft traits were now a thing but in order to breed them I'd need to start out with wild horses & donkeys I'd be merrily galloping around the server hunting some of those rather than in a rage typing this. All AH needed was for higher skill to reduce the chance of getting negative traits. Draft traits? Great! Just not at the expense of making everything that's been done before useless. You need, at the very least, to somehow grandfather in animals that existed before the patch so they are not nerfed by the changes. 

 

And since I'm on a rant can anyone give me one good reason why "speed" horses suddenly look like Arabians? Has Wurm been based in the middle east all this time & I never knew? It's an attractive model but it makes zero sense.

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If you don't have a coastal deed you are definetly screwed.Now you need animals with draft traits or your large cart is only going to move at 7 km/h....good luck getting bulk goods to your boat.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Liandal30 said:

If you don't have a coastal deed you are definetly screwed.Now you need animals with draft traits or your large cart is only going to move at 7 km/h....good luck getting bulk goods to your boat.

lol an optimist¬†ūüėÜ

--explained..

coastlines and boats.. no speed and weight nerf

#salvation

Edited by Finnn

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Posted (edited)

Dunno, but at this point I don't understand the design philosophy here. 

 

It boils down to a few steps. 

 

1. Nerf horse speeds and cart/wagon speed.

2. Force players to go through RNG hell just so they can breed horses to get back to their previous speeds? 

3. Players with high AH are still punished...geez thanks for the "upgrade". 

4. 6 months later (maybe?) carts will be back at their previous speeds with draft horses (lots of assuming here).

5. Piss off the entire wurm playerbase in the process.

6. Update success?

 

I don't understand what this update was meant to achieve other than disenfranchising all wurmians. Lack of communication or a clear direction to where this update is going is just reinforcing my desire to let my sub run out at this point.

All the people I know in Wurm absolutely hate this update. Not dislike, nor irritated with it, but hate, pure, unbridled, undiluted hate. 

Edited by elentari
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26 minutes ago, elentari said:

Dunno, but at this point I don't understand the design philosophy here. 

 

It boils down to a few steps. 

 

1. Nerf horse speeds and cart/wagon speed.

2. Force players to go through RNG hell just so they can breed horses to get back to their previous speeds? 

3. Players with high AH are still punished...geez thanks for the "upgrade". 

4. 6 months later (maybe?) carts will be back at their previous speeds with draft horses (lots of assuming here).

5. Piss off the entire wurm playerbase in the process.

6. Update success?

 

I don't understand what this update was meant to achieve other than disenfranchising all wurmians. Lack of communication or a clear direction to where this update is going is just reinforcing my desire to let my sub run out at this point.

All the people I know in Wurm absolutely hate this update. Not dislike, nor irritated with it, but hate, pure, unbridled, undiluted hate. 

Even after some time you can't go to previous play style, as now you can have 2-4x draft normal or hellhorses.. but once you get to a rift on a cart or wagon with horses hitched to it... you CAN'T use one of them to ride around on horseback during the rift, draft mounts are trash for that.. so what do you do.. *cringe smile*  grab a cart or wagon if you need such, additionally lead a speed-traited horse to use only during the rift event.. additional complication, more micromanagement and extra preparation : /

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Posted (edited)

-

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update

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I like the hot horses. 

 

I mean hot blooded, of course 

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Honestly, I am just sad when you kill a donkey it sounds like a horse. /shrug

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If you need a voice actor for donkey sound effects shoot me a DM

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Posted (edited)

SO, I have begun doing some counts giving a probability of carrying over neutral traits from parents to foals. This is done with parents that have either speed traits or draft traits on them, and in addition 1 neutral trait. It took me some time to get started on this because of lack of neutral traits in my old herd. 

 

For my calculation, all other categories of traits are the ‚Äúneutral‚ÄĚ traits (combat, output, negative etc.).

 

I have so far just counted 10 foals where a parent had such a neutral trait. Given that there are almost 30 non-rare traits that fall into the different categories, drawing a specific one of them randomly has a probability well under 5 % per draw. *)

 

Yet, I found a transfer of the neutral trait from parent to foal happened in 7 of the 10 foals, a whopping 70 %. (most of the being the trait Unusually strong and healthy)

 

That does not look random at all, I see no indication of a ‚ÄúRNG hell‚ÄĚ for these traits.

I will continue the counts.

 

*) The exact probability of randomly drawing a specific neutral trait that is also on the parent is however very complicated to calculate. Three factors are confounding here: 

a) Foals often come with more than 1 ‚Äúneutral‚ÄĚ trait, so the game made more than 1 draw¬†

b) - but the specific trait we are interested in can only appear 1 time on the same foal, so even if the game makes more draws, it cannot be drawn again

c) On the other hand, there can be more than one option to draw a trait from one of the parents - the parents may both have it, or they may have different neutral traits among them

So there are in fact many different draw patterns. To get some data fast I disregarded all these complications, I only left out foals that came with no neutral traits at all. Safe to say that the random probability is hardly over 5%.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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So you didn't actually test if parents would pass on a specific trait? Just that foals got random extras to fill point allowance?

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1 hour ago, CistaCista said:

That does not look random at all, I see no indication of a ‚ÄúRNG hell‚ÄĚ for these traits.

 

Tell that to half of my foals that have 2-3 negative traits (tested using 2 toons, one with 50 AH , another with 80+ AH) and results were weird to say the least. My lower AH toon got less negative traits in his foals, while my higher AH toon got half of the foals with negative traits because some traits have to fill the trait limit, right? I don't enjoy the idea of pestering people for genesis  every couple of weeks just because RNG said so and I have to pay out higher amounts of silvers for a priest to cure my horses. 

 

No inbreeding happened so the high amount of negative traits is due to the game deciding that HIGH AH players must have foals will all traits filled, either useless misc traits or neg ones. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, elentari said:

HIGH AH players must have foals will all traits filled

 

That is true in some cases for sure. That doesn't have anything to do with whether existing traits get passed on though.  

 

People have claimed that everything is RNG and the existing traits - aside from speed traits - on their horses never pass on, so that's what I am looking at.

In fact, this is exactly what you and I and Ekcin discussed on page 2.

 

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, elentari said:

Tell that to half of my foals that have 2-3 negative traits (tested using 2 toons, one with 50 AH , another with 80+ AH) and results were weird to say the least. My lower AH toon got less negative traits in his foals, while my higher AH toon got half of the foals with negative traits because some traits have to fill the trait limit, right? I don't enjoy the idea of pestering people for genesis  every couple of weeks just because RNG said so and I have to pay out higher amounts of silvers for a priest to cure my horses. 

 

No inbreeding happened so the high amount of negative traits is due to the game deciding that HIGH AH players must have foals will all traits filled, either useless misc traits or neg ones. 

not really.. I keep getting -15-20 or worse below my limit of points.. grinding high skill for one... gives you a good variety of completely useless traits, gives you good amount of bad traits for no reason with creatures that are unrelated in any way old 5 speeds with 2 different branches or complete 0 wild traited.. all just sponge bad traits like crazy.. 1-3 is more common to happen then not, this is for 80-85AH.. now I'm at 90.. and expect even more stinky meat trash traits, but lets go 95AH.. to optimize the pool size ..ūü§ģ

Unsure if I have gotten better than 70points per animal.. probably not.. because it picks to take only one main speed or draft stack of traits and fills the rest with junk but never with a rare(so far no luck at all) or new speed/draft trait.. it's just the old 3-4 mixing up.. where the water speed is completely useless anyway.

 

  

35 minutes ago, CistaCista said:

 

True. That doesn't have anything to do with whether existing traits get passed on though.  

 

People have claimed that everything is RNG and the existing traits - aside from speed traits - on their horses never pass on, so that's what I am looking at.

only 4x speed animals.. never better, and 4th speed trait is the water one.. so.. no better horse compared to old 5 speeds... if that is good... or intended.. or not rng.. and a nonsense.. sure call it however you like, I saw only trash traits since 55AH at patch release and I raised skill to 90.. I am yet to see a useful creature that is not just a meat bag.

Edited by Finnn
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On 6/6/2021 at 6:31 AM, DemonaNightshade said:

I apologize, it's hard to keep track of every single non-official post where people want a reply and where they are located. The cart speeds are being worked on, as well as more tweaking with the animal husbandry traits and such. The pick-a-trait option is something I do not see becoming a thing, however. There's going to be an adjustment period, as with every change. Things will be tweaked and eventually settle down a bit.

 

 

So right as I hit 80 AH I realized were IN THE SAME EXACT SITUATION as before. Lower AH will get the wanted speed or draft traits, and higher AH will be filled with a bunch of unwanted/useless traits that nobody will want, since it makes breeding the next generation so much harder. 

 

Tell me, what good is "easy on gear" (draft trait) on bison?

What good is "friendly" on a riding horse?

What good is stationary on a horse that's penned or saddled?

The list goes on and on...

 

I'm so disgusted at this point that I actually considered killing off all my bison and horses, saving just a few for myself. If you know me, this is big, since I've always had big herds and sold a lot of bison, along with some horses. 

 

I'm so disgusted that I play for an hour or so a day and log off. Before this whole AH crap I played many hours a day.

 

I'm out of this thread. It's pointless. We get a single reply from Demona ten days ago, not really saying anything, and dead silence since.  They screwed up another aspect of Wurm that I loved. 

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another wurm patch at it's finest

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Posted (edited)

-

 

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
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Not sure if this helps or not, but can anyone confirm wild horses don't spawn anymore in the steppe biome? used to be they were coded to spawn mostly in the steppe but now donkeys seem to have replaced horse spawning entirely. 

I've noticed this when I attempted to gather a wild horse group to do some fresh breeding with some new stock. I am uncertain this happened post-update or not. But the amount of donkeys on Epic right now is a bit absurd. 

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13 minutes ago, elentari said:

but can anyone confirm wild horses don't spawn anymore in the steppe biome?

they've spawned on grass/trees for at least a year now, whenever they added kingdom mobs spawning on freedom all the spawn tables got redone

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Hmmm alright.  Guess I didn't notice it that much on Deliverance due to wild horses rarely (if ever) spawning there. 

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