Sign in to follow this  
DevBlog

Patch Notes 26/MAY/2021

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

Perhaps each species should be bred at a selected time of the year and then it gives better results? In fact, that's how it works in reality.

further limits options... terrible idea

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Finnn said:

further limits options... terrible idea

 

I am looking for a formula according to which the new system works. You already know my suggestions on how I think it should work.

And seasonality in breeding high trait animals wouldn't be a bad idea. It would limit the growth of the horse and bisons population trapped on deeds.

Edited by Darnok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So we should prem for 5 silver every few weeks and drop prem because it's pointless to play the game in the down periods?

"Yea".. don't think that's how subscription games work, it's how they die .. pushing people away, having no content to experience and offering no reason to play

--edit

 

It's not a big online tamagocci, it's casual mmo 'MUD" as some call it, it's pretty chill and slow paced as it is.. further slowing things and putting time blockers gives people reason to rethink why they spend their time not just on loading bar but hours and days of cooldown mechanics - unable to play..

That is not something you want to do or keep doing.

Edited by Finnn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darnok said:

Maybe the fact that you are using animals as machines to make more animals is a problem? And this trait pool has to be refilled after every pregnancy and it takes a while?

 

Who are you to say what is and is not fact or how I play the game or what I do....you sure do like to assume a lot of things when you spout off your mouth.

 

Maybe this...maybe that...you offer nothing to the conversation with this kind of talk. What we have is the way the system used to work, and the patch notes that changed that...no where before or after is anything even related to refilling of trait pools even suggested. With your line of of thinking...maybe I have to drink 2/3rd a cup of coffee while standing on one foot while waiting for water to boil....its nonsense.

 

Work within the confines of the game would you please and learn to separate your own ideas and how you want things to work from the reality of how the game does work.

 

Please keep the issues and ideas of what is happening with the AH changes to reality in this thread. We are trying to figure things out and your "suggestions" of reality and how things should or should not work based upon what you want for the game has no place here.

 

If you have results to add to the conversation, then great, add them and lets discuss them, but otherwise this is not a suggestion thread for you to hijack.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Darnok said:

And seasonality in breeding high trait animals wouldn't be a bad idea. It would limit the growth of the horse and bisons population trapped on deeds.

why would I let them loose or kill them instead of waiting for that next season to roll around

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe everyone is just breeding incorrectly. If traits are rarely being passed down from parents, doesn't it stand to reason that breeding horses with bad traits together will result in amazing ones?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, gnomegates said:

 

Who are you to say what is and is not fact or how I play the game or what I do....you sure do like to assume a lot of things when you spout off your mouth.

 

Maybe this...maybe that...you offer nothing to the conversation with this kind of talk. What we have is the way the system used to work, and the patch notes that changed that...no where before or after is anything even related to refilling of trait pools even suggested. With your line of of thinking...maybe I have to drink 2/3rd a cup of coffee while standing on one foot while waiting for water to boil....its nonsense.

 

Fully agree that many things have zero sense in Wurm 😄

 

"Can be used at any altar in a 3x3 flat area, standing in shallow water. "

https://www.wurmpedia.com/index.php/Slime_of_uttacha

 

2 hours ago, gnomegates said:

 

Work within the confines of the game would you please and learn to separate your own ideas and how you want things to work from the reality of how the game does work.

 

Please keep the issues and ideas of what is happening with the AH changes to reality in this thread. We are trying to figure things out and your "suggestions" of reality and how things should or should not work based upon what you want for the game has no place here.

 

If you have results to add to the conversation, then great, add them and lets discuss them, but otherwise this is not a suggestion thread for you to hijack.

 

If I would get a silver coin for every time a veteran tells me what I should or shouldn't do...

 

Read your posts carefully, you give nothing to this discussion but empty complaints, while I am trying to come up with an idea about what else might influence the results you think are random.
It's entertaining to see all-knowing veterans turn into little kids wandering in the dark after change of just one feature of the game.

And the funniest thing is that most people criticize this change because they don't understand it and have not figured out how the new system works yet, but the fact that it is different from what you have known in recent years is enough for you to say that it is bad.

 

Hopefully the Devs are preparing more changes that will put your "veteran knowledge" in the garbage can.

 

 

Edited by Darnok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone else not getting Neg traits anymore? I have not had any in weeks of breeding now.

Edited by gnomegates

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sindusk said:

Maybe everyone is just breeding incorrectly. If traits are rarely being passed down from parents, doesn't it stand to reason that breeding horses with bad traits together will result in amazing ones?

maybe not..

result of 2draft/2speed mother/old 5sp father.. and 93 to 95 AH skill(93AH+ when bred, 95AH when it was born)

3b1fe66c1711ab1d00e74dc1229e8081.png

trait inheritance seems off.. skill and trait point system is unrewarding

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Yserin said:

also not sure why you guys dont have posts by Darnok ignored. more you interact with him the more he is going to post seems his deal to post things specifically to get people to yell about how he is wrong. xD. please stop feeding the forum troll.

^^ this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 speed traits, one of them rare, as an average player I like this new system 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

for a gambling patch with 'luck' or total randomness that is absolutely unrelated to skill.. works if you just hope and don't put any skill into it, if you work hard to get rick rolled.. than it sucks to see it in action

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Finnn said:

for a gambling patch with 'luck' or total randomness that is absolutely unrelated to skill.. works if you just hope and don't put any skill into it, if you work hard to get rick rolled.. than it sucks to see it in action

 

We look at it from different perspectives. It seems to me that your perspective is "I have higher skill, I expect a better reward", it makes sense, although you ignore the fact that with a higher skill level you get a better reward because you can get more traits and see more information about the animal than I do.

But expecting a higher skill to reduce randomness is game breaking, because then you would get late game content very quickly with your level.
Even if this new system is pure random traits still depend on the skill level, you just have more traits on higher levels, only that it is very difficult to draw good combinations at a higher level and I have nothing against it, because 5-speed is the end for breeder industry branch, there is nothing else after you get there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

We look at it from different perspectives. It seems to me that your perspective is "I have higher skill, I expect a better reward", it makes sense, although you ignore the fact that with a higher skill level you get a better reward because you can get more traits and see more information about the animal than I do.

But expecting a higher skill to reduce randomness is game breaking, because then you would get late game content very quickly with your level.
Even if this new system is pure random traits still depend on the skill level, you just have more traits on higher levels, only that it is very difficult to draw good combinations at a higher level and I have nothing against it, because 5-speed is the end for breeder industry branch, there is nothing else after you get there.

So you say.. it's ok to be blacksmith 1 and improve to ql100, but being blacksmith 100 is ok to fail and not do good at it, because it's fun when noobs rule?

idk.. don't think that's correct... it's pretty obvious why.. it's a skill based game.. things are bound to skill and better rewards come with it.. incentive to get better and do better are glued to higher skill.. leaving outcomes to rng and ignoring the skill is the crazy part that nobody likes.. it's again pretty obvious. 

 

If you think playing the game for a month or a year or 15... and than do terrible, but a brand new player get good at it.. and that's ok.. you're seriously NEW to mmo games.. where things come with time, and progression comes from spent time and effort, not rng wheels, if there's rng that is also bound to skill, getting a rare trait with low or no skill shouldn't be a thing at all.

 

--edit

and no.. 

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

Even if this new system is pure random traits still depend on the skill level, you just have more traits on higher levels, only that it is very difficult to draw good combinations at a higher level and I have nothing against it, because 5-speed is the end for breeder industry branch, there is nothing else after you get there.

Nobody says getting 5 speeds and copy/pasting them 'is bad', people loved that part, the lack of that functionality is 1 thing that drives the patch outrage, old system was easy to rely on, new one.. is days of waiting and disappointment over and over again. If main traits were transferring like old system.. and misc/combat/output were coming as rng base... and using 2x identical combat/misc/output traited parent .. gives you 50 or 100% transfer for the 3 groups.. that's probably best of both worlds. Currently it's not even clear where 'main' trait transfer comes from.. doesn't take the dominant bigger pool, doesn't take the smaller dominant pool, sometimes you can breed same traited parents and get a complete kermit froggie that doesn't look like any of them(identical traits~), so.. what's left to rely on with such results..

no progression, no reliable rules to follow to get better trait combinations..

 

Only thing I like is... we get random colors, since I don't care to breed 2x ebony blacks for better chance or w/e of the sort to get the other..  this practice just requires bigger creature pools; maybe it was my skill maybe it's the new system.. in the end I don't care about colors as long speed coming from the traits is good.

Edited by Finnn
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Finnn said:

So you say.. it's ok to be blacksmith 1 and improve to ql100, but being blacksmith 100 is ok to fail and not do good at it, because it's fun when noobs rule?

 

"- Players are now capped at Animal Husbandry level worth of points for creatures they have bred. "

 

By using your analogy 10 level blacksmith can improve to 10ql, so high level characters are better, but that doesn't mean they are faster.

I am convinced that 10 level blacksmith will upgrade item much faster to 10ql than 100 level to 100ql, here in my opinion same principle can apply it is only extended over many generations of animals (assuming this is pure random, without any other additional conditions like I mentioned before).

 

Quote

Nobody says getting 5 speeds and copy/pasting them 'is bad', people loved that part, the lack of that functionality is 1 thing that drives the patch outrage, old system was easy to rely on, new one.. is days of waiting and disappointment over and over again. If main traits were transferring like old system.. and misc/combat/output were coming as rng base... and using 2x identical combat/misc/output traited parent .. gives you 50 or 100% transfer for the 3 groups.. that's probably best of both worlds.

 

And this way you, or any other player grinding only AH, would hit end game result in 1 month after fresh map starts?

 

Quote

 

Currently it's not even clear where 'main' trait transfer comes from.. doesn't take the dominant bigger pool, doesn't take the smaller dominant pool, sometimes you can breed same traited parents and get a complete kermit froggie that doesn't look like any of them(identical traits~), so.. what's left to rely on with such results..

 

That's good for average players, now we have same chances.

 

 

Edited by Darnok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Darnok, 

 

I think this is an opportunity to discuss your thoughts regarding these changes, because I think it boils down to the following: 

 

"Veterans dislike anything that disrupts the status quo"

 

Now, the issue with this is it's not an "us vs them" thing, it's about ENJOYMENT of the game.

From what you've shared, your enjoyment stems from disrupting how the game currently works, which you then push to frame as the above thoughts "they push back because it disrupts their status quo". The issue is that this update changes how the game has worked for years (decades) and instead offers no clear path or work to ensure quality results. 

 

Wurm is a game where the time you put in = results. It's slow, but you know that if you put in 30 minutes a day for 1000 days, or 24 hours a day for 20 days, you'll be the same rate in. Progression is a matter of time input, not a matter of getting lucky. It's why any RNG heavy system brings out irritation, it goes against the core tenet of the game.

 

The issue with this update is that it adds extra RNG and strips that core drive of wurm, it's no longer about time building breeding stock, encouraging good traits and maintaining good health of animals, and instead becomes a crapshoot of "whatever you breed can turn out whatever" 

 

I believe your initial ideas were rough, but they came from a good place. Now, I believe you only seek to "upset the vets" in an attempt to create scenarios where your schadenfreude gets you a chuckle. 

 

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Darnok said:

And this way you, or any other player grinding only AH, would hit end game result in 1 month after fresh map starts?

With breeding, and dedication, it takes about 6 months to a year to be providing horses. 5 speeds horses is not end game. 

 

26 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

"- Players are now capped at Animal Husbandry level worth of points for creatures they have bred. "

 

By using your analogy 10 level blacksmith can improve to 10ql, so high level characters are better, but that doesn't mean they are faster.

I am convinced that 10 level blacksmith will upgrade item much faster to 10ql than 100 level to 100ql, here in my opinion same principle can apply it is only extended over many generations of animals (assuming this is pure random, without any other additional conditions like I mentioned before)

If your argument here is "without any Ah I can breed a 1 speed whenever I like because it's the only trait I can get" is somehow a gotcha moment for the fact that higher skill is continuing to actively punish players, by introducing more randomness the higher you go, as opposed to allowing 90+ skill to produce more reliable output (just like any other skill) you wind up having people not even want to work on AH as a goal, because at the end the result isn't just "not worth the effort" but "actually provides increased negative feedback"

 

28 minutes ago, Darnok said:

That's good for average players, now we have same chances.

This is where your misguided "us vs them" mindset comes in. 

 

You believe that randomness levels the playing field in a somehow beneficial way. That as a new player you should be able to get the same results as a player who has dedicated time and effort into raising skills because again "VeTs R BaD" 

 

Please, stop trying to be so contrary. Spend some time playing the game, look at what YOU want to do, and what YOU want to achieve, and WORK on that. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Archaed said:

With breeding, and dedication, it takes about 6 months to a year to be providing horses. 5 speeds horses is not end game. 

 

 

It's been 6 months since the update and new system? Not? So what's the problem?

The problem is that the "vets" don't understand, so that's a bad thing because they're used to relying on their memories rather than on finding new patterns.

Edited by Darnok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Darnok said:

 

It's been 6 months since the update and new system? Not? So what's the problem?

the problem is that it doesn't matter HOW long it is, the offspring is random. 

 

The time in the previous system was ensuring bloodlines, culling negative traits, breeding strong pairs together and working on adding new traits to the pool without crossbreeding. 

 

This new system has all the traits there already, it just randomises which ones pop out. 

 

There is no more working on bloodlines, no more breeding strong pairs, and no more adding new traits to the pool. 

 

It's stripped the work and planning in favour of a roll of dice at this point, which is why players are upset. 

 

Honestly, the previous system was something you'd have liked

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

It's been 6 months since the update and new system? Not? So what's the problem?

The problem is that the "vets" don't understand, so that's a bad thing because they're used to relying on their memories rather than on finding new patterns.

 

Its been 2 months since the AH changes, and little over 1 month since they added in some "tweeks"

 

Since then it has been silence....thats the biggest issue for many of us. We were told that more changes and tweeks were coming, we were told our concerns would be addressed, and it has not happened, instead we have silence from the dev team about this whole issue.

Edited by gnomegates
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Archaed said:

the problem is that it doesn't matter HOW long it is, the offspring is random. 

 

"By using your analogy 10 level blacksmith can improve to 10ql, so high level characters are better, but that doesn't mean they are faster.

I am convinced that 10 level blacksmith will upgrade item much faster to 10ql than 100 level to 100ql, here in my opinion same principle can apply it is only extended over many generations of animals (assuming this is pure random, without any other additional conditions like I mentioned before)."

 

It doesn't matter, success/failure during improve is also random and if you want to get the item 100ql, you will hit more failures than the noob that creates item 10ql.

 

Quote

 

The time in the previous system was ensuring bloodlines, culling negative traits, breeding strong pairs together and working on adding new traits to the pool without crossbreeding. 

 

This new system has all the traits there already, it just randomises which ones pop out. 

 

There is no more working on bloodlines, no more breeding strong pairs, and no more adding new traits to the pool. 

 

It's stripped the work and planning in favour of a roll of dice at this point, which is why players are upset. 

 

Honestly, the previous system was something you'd have liked

 

The fact that someone has a skill level 100 won't help him if he doesn't know what he is doing, so the average player and the veteran are in the same position now, which gives us equal chances.

 

9 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

 

May 26th....why don't you look at the very title of the thread that your posting in to learn the dates of the subject matter that your talking about..

 

Its been 2 months since the AH changes, and little over 1 month since they added in some "tweeks"

 

So in 4-10 months you should reach late game content and 5-speed horses.

Edited by Darnok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Darnok said:

 

It's been 6 months since the update and new system? Not? So what's the problem?

The problem is that the "vets" don't understand, so that's a bad thing because they're used to relying on their memories rather than on finding new patterns.

There's no pattern to it is the problem. The system will happily take your baby from 2x 4 speed horses and turn it into a completely different group of horse ignoring dominant categories, that's not an uncommon occurrence either. that's a very weird scapegoat of an entire group of people when you can't figure it out judging by your previous comments in here.

 

I've bred enough 4s/4d horses to last me a lifetime and i'll just buy the rare trait horses from some poor sod that soldiers on with the garbage so i've already "enjoyed" figuring out the system enough to know it goes against any logical understanding of biological inheritance, but if you want to sit there and argue just because it irritates people you don't like then all the power to you friendo

6 minutes ago, Darnok said:

so the average player and the veteran are in the same position now, which gives us equal chances.

now its just defiance/epic vs freedom because they can breed like 20 horses a week from a single breeder pair due to accelerated breeding/almost no foal stage and figure out the system way faster lol

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

There's no pattern to it is the problem.

 

That is your opinion.

 

52 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

but if you want to sit there and argue just because it irritates people you don't like then all the power to you friendo

 

If you didn't notice, I tried to give some ideas about what else to check, but apparently the mere fact that someone has ideas that the omniscient group does not have already creates a problem.

 

52 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

now its just defiance/epic vs freedom because they can breed like 20 horses a week from a single breeder pair due to accelerated breeding/almost no foal stage and figure out the system way faster lol

 

Assuming quantity solves every problem, okay. But, in the beginning, when they don't know what they're doing, won't they make mistakes and make it harder to get back for right track for several generations?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Darnok said:

If you didn't notice, I tried to give some ideas about what else to check, but apparently the mere fact that someone has ideas that the omniscient group does not have already creates a problem.

i think it's more comments like 

1 hour ago, Darnok said:

 

It's been 6 months since the update and new system? Not? So what's the problem?

The problem is that the "vets" don't understand, so that's a bad thing because they're used to relying on their memories rather than on finding new patterns.

that you blindly insult people you don't like and accuse them of not liking it because it's new that people don't like, but it's hilarious that not earlier today you were complaining about how the game doesn't show you basic info like weapon damage and armour stats and whatnot in-game and that's bad and causes poor reviews, but here suddenly you like basic info being hidden because it irritates people you don't like. make up your mind on the subject ya?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this