DemonaNightshade

Valrei International: Feeding time!

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Samool said:

 

we didn't fully think through how it would end up on live servers after everything is settled, so the feedback here helps.

 

 

 

Can we at least test changes prior to them just being thrown out in to the wild?

 

If it takes you 6 months to come up with new ideas at least spend a month testing it out.. 

 

Does this mean none of the changes are tested? 

Edited by Firecat
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So should we start grind now AH after 50 or better wait for update?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Samool said:

 

It was a bad idea in the first place, not a kneejerk change. We don't want the "meta" to be keeping exclusively negative traited animals and having to genesis all the offspring - we were more thinking about the individual horses back when we thought it would be a good idea, rather than taking both offspring and genesis into account - as Ekcin mentioned, we didn't fully think through how it would end up on live servers after everything is settled, so the feedback here helps.

 

Fo priests are still ahead of other breeders by a lot with just how it works now, especially after the update that there will be more breeding needed to be done in general to keep those more specialized animals. And no, Genesis runes won't be a thing.

Thank you for giving this information and being open and transparent.

 

We all make mistakes 😉 that's how we grow and learn.  Let's see what happens in the future. Hopefully more staff communication like this. I think because there has not been that much user dev communication in the past that, that can drive the frustration and theory's of the users. 

 

That and not giving full info up front. Being vague for hype or to build tension does not really work that well here cause there are alot of "hardcore" players who know all of the details about the game and want full details about how updates will effect them. 

Edited by Zexos
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Samool said:

 

It was a bad idea in the first place, not a kneejerk change. We don't want the "meta" to be keeping exclusively negative traited animals and having to genesis all the offspring - we were more thinking about the individual horses back when we thought it would be a good idea, rather than taking both offspring and genesis into account - as Ekcin mentioned, we didn't fully think through how it would end up on live servers after everything is settled, so the feedback here helps.

 

Fo priests are still ahead of other breeders by a lot with just how it works now, especially after the update that there will be more breeding needed to be done in general to keep those more specialized animals. And no, Genesis runes won't be a thing.

 

This, being the most honest communication I've seen in some time, is exactly why nobody trusts the dev community anymore.

 

Stop dumping untested changes. At the very minimum sit down and actually think them out fully. If such vague information as was released in this thread allows the player base to point out obvious problems then there's definitely a problem.

 

We've stopped bothered to ask that you actually communicate back and forth with the player base before massive changes, but at least take the time to do everything right on your end before leaving us a buggy mess to slog through.

 

You have a test server. Use it to test instead of using the live servers to test.

 

Edit: Nobody expects perfection, but when there's very clear steps to improve on what even you admit is a problem, and you refuse to even attempt them, that's on you.

Edited by Dinant
Clarification
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If we put feeding bowls/troughs in the wild...will it lure any hungry wild animals?

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Run away little girl! run away! From the feeding station! It looked like exactly the same way of feeding but now they just do it until they are fully hand fed. Which could still lead up to 30 times of eating in a feeding station. Still require the same amount of stuff to get. The upside is we can be a bit more lazy which is great. Addition. Having bigger stack of food would be awesome though. Specific meals for animals for example.

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23 hours ago, Firecat said:

Can we at least test changes prior to them just being thrown out in to the wild?

If it takes you 6 months to come up with new ideas at least spend a month testing it out..

Does this mean none of the changes are tested? 

I'm more concerned it took a forum thread for it to be seen why it was a bad idea...

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Would there be a possibility that Genesis will be able to remove trait of our choosing and not the first bad one. might help people with lower AH to clear slot to aim for exactly what they want in bloodline. And if such mechanics is implemented could be used for as a frame for long requested dispell of choosing which is killing two birds with one stone. Just pop u a dialog upon or even better before casting  with drop down/check list of traits and have selected the one genesis would remove by default.... 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Madnath said:

I'm more concerned it took a forum thread for it to be seen why it was a bad idea...

I've given up at this point, well 5 years ago really.

Edited by Firecat
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4 hours ago, kochinac said:

Would there be a possibility that Genesis will be able to remove trait of our choosing and not the first bad one. might help people with lower AH to clear slot to aim for exactly what they want in bloodline. And if such mechanics is implemented could be used for as a frame for long requested dispell of choosing which is killing two birds with one stone. Just pop u a dialog upon or even better before casting  with drop down/check list of traits and have selected the one genesis would remove by default.... 

 

Only if lib gets genesis or its completely unfair

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Would be nice if you got a nice drop down box and select the trait you want to remove good or bad with genesis. 

 

 

P.S. Once you do that please copy and paste that code to dispel thank you.

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1 hour ago, Evilvision said:

Would be nice if you got a nice drop down box and select the trait you want to remove good or bad with genesis. 

 

 

P.S. Once you do that please copy and paste that code to dispel thank you.

lol😆

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9 hours ago, Madnath said:

I'm more concerned it took a forum thread for it to be seen why it was a bad idea...

ccab need a "red team" of testers, to look at an idea with the intention to break things and profit, share findings and than be decided if something is intended, ok/not/or unplanned but good feature..

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6 hours ago, SmeJack said:

 

Only if lib gets genesis or its completely unfair

 

Agreed, and was part of why I made my wishlist for high AH to grant an ability like this  to breeders - not something attached to priests - give people a real reason to raise AH, and at the same time help to deal with the problem inherent in this system, namely that being able to breed for more traits, but with no means of controlling them, is still potentially detrimental, and will continue to to discourage people from working to high AH levels.

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I had the thought that it would be nice if we could get one of the new speed traits, and one of the new draught traits added to the game before the rest of them came in as a whole, so that we could begin to breed towards new lines of speed and draught animals, and that when the update goes live, there would be a less dramatic impact on both riding and hitched speeds when it does.

 

Bison seem to be in an even worse position than horses when it comes to their main role, as the three traits that they were previously bred for, now all become ineffective and the two that had no effect, even if present, will tend to be pushed aside by the fact that they most likely have 3 speed, and at most 2 draught traits, so the domimant trait pool being preferred will be speed, meaning the next generation is likely to be even worse?

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12 hours ago, kochinac said:

Would there be a possibility that Genesis will be able to remove trait of our choosing and not the first bad one. might help people with lower AH to clear slot to aim for exactly what they want in bloodline. And if such mechanics is implemented could be used for as a frame for long requested dispell of choosing which is killing two birds with one stone. Just pop u a dialog upon or even better before casting  with drop down/check list of traits and have selected the one genesis would remove by default.... 

 

That’d make genesis a de facto requirement for breeding, while now it just makes things slightly easier. I’d much rather see the option as a breeder to set target traits when breeding two animals, with higher animal husbandry making making those traits more likely than other traits. (Another thing higher than 50 AH could be used for,  rather than max trait points, so 50ish AHers can continue breeding fastest horses.)

 

AH could’ve been explorered so much more, rather than just increasing number of traits, juggling them around, and requiring you to grind higher AH to get best speed again. Eg, targeting for traits (as I just mentioned) and reducing max breedtime (I mentioned in earlier post in this thread). Things like this that would’ve brought benefit to all breeders, rather than deciding to lock things away from breeders and requiring them to grind higher AH to continue breeding top-speed horses.

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I have a highly controversial idea: let's see how the new system works before we complain any more.

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, CistaCista said:

I have a highly controversial idea: let's see how the new system works before we complain any more.


If no one had raised concerns, we’d still be going in with negative traits costing negative points. The devs have acknowledged they didn’t think through all the repercussions. They’re still not giving full details on the changes, so of course we’re still speculating to a degree. But If any of this speculating is hitting the nail on the head, the devs still have time to adjust course.

Edited by Calan
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Posted (edited)

Well however you put things I don't think you can avoid that genesis is "requirement" for breeding. And it was the only way i could think that gives control and fit lore and mechanics somehow. Having unwanted trait excpecially positive and not enough skill for for more slots for wanted trait to pop up can really be punishing.

 

And for genesis for Lib, i think it would be fair to treat it as strongwall, in terms having it on Lib on pvp servers but not on pve. i personaly don't like this solution but its design flaw in priest system at the begining that we can't avoid now.

Edited by kochinac

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2 hours ago, kochinac said:

Well however you put things I don't think you can avoid that genesis is "requirement" for breeding.

 

I've spent the past six  (actually, now that I think about it, nine) months slowly working my way up to 5 speed horses, which I only just acheived a few weeks back. For most of that I didn't have a priest with genesis. The vast majority of foals I've slaughtered didn't have a negative trait - they had a non-speed trait that I didn't want to carry on. Now that I have a priest with genesis, I've been able to save a small number of foals that otherwise would've been killed, very slightly speeding up my programme; but most certainly I didn't and don't see genesis as a necessity. So I think we'll need to agree to disagree on that point.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Calan said:

but most certainly I didn't and don't see genesis as a necessity

and neither will still genesis be necessity in my case, will just speed up breeding traits you want little bit more than now. you can still do it in longer time without genesis.

On another hand i assume you started with 0 skill with clean horses and built your way up ironicly that is more controlable. Imagine if you have to start with 50 skill and empty horses (don't have to imagine actually that will be case with donkeys now for most of people), you have 5 slots for random traits some of them you can't even remove with genesis, much smaller chance that those traits will be 5 ones you want in a row, again you it would beneficial for you to want bad traits along good one so you can remove them to build your way up. I tried to breed 5 speed bison from clean ones just for funs, and beeing a noob in AH and not knowing how things work exactly i ended up with heard that has It will fight fiercly , thats locking me from 5th speed trait, and since i didn't eradicate that trait early on my best shot is to try from begining, even if i go to 60 skill to unlock new slot, i can't get rid of that trait i don't want without culling my entire heard and starting over. Someone correct me if i'm wrong i still lack practical expirience when it comes to breeding animals.

Edited by kochinac

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, kochinac said:

Someone correct me if i'm wrong i still lack practical expirience when it comes to breeding animals.

 

At 50+ skill you can get rid of that trait but it is almost impossible.

 

If both your parents have the same 5 traits already, they take up 250/300 of the pool of possible traits you can get. The last 50 in the pool will be a random trait, i.e. you have a probability of 17 % of exchanging a trait, but only 3 % of getting another trait instead of your target: fight fiercely.

 

The probability of THAT trait being that last speed trait that you want is even smaller, less than 1 % if I am thinking straight. You can however get a negative trait, remove it, and then you are soon in business.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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13 minutes ago, CistaCista said:

 

At 50+ skill you can get rid of that trait but it is almost impossible.

 

If both your parents have the same 5 traits already, they take up 250/300 of the pool of possible traits you can get. The last 50 in the pool will be a random trait, i.e. you have a probability of 17 % of exchanging a trait, but only 3 % of getting another trait instead of your target: fight fiercely.

 

The probability of THAT trait being that last speed trait that you want is even smaller, less than 1 % if I am thinking straight. You can however get a negative trait, remove it, and then you are soon in business.

 

yeah, but why not just allow it to be removed with genesis and make my life easier :D  also i reckon it would make peoples life to transition from current what is now considered 5 speed horses to specific draft or speed lines much faster. and we are back in circle to same old story of Fo is "required" to succesfully breed animals and anyone without it is in significant disadvantage, like everyone is in disadvantage on pvp if they don't have priest, it's almost impossible to dig out perfect canal/tunnel without Mag etc. Hmm, it's almost like this game is making you having alts. (end of sarcastic comment)

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, kochinac said:

...

 

edit: actually, I said earlier let’s agree to disagree, so I’ll retract this post and leave it at that. :)

Edited by Calan

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Calan said:

Right now, it’s useful very occasionally while working up to five speeds, so it just has a minor impact in the grand scheme of things. With your suggestion, it’d be useful so much more often when working up to five speeds, to the point you’d be shooting yourself in the foot if you tried breeding up to five speeds without it.

Ok, but you haven't answered my assumptions about your case, how many times have you tried to breed new animals and traits from clean wild animals  now with 50 skill, and i'm not speaking only horses? For right now i'm experimenting with wild animals and 50 ah and i feel having Fo to remove all bad traits( and even the good ones) i get to get clear 5s bloodline would save me a lot of trouble, it's thing I would use on almost any animal that is born now. Having established breeding pairs with desireable traits and skill locked so no surprises happens sure, i would not need genesis at all, but when starting from begining with high skill i would say it's different story.

P.S. Don't get me wrong, I do agree with your points that it would make  having Fo priest even more desirable than now, but i'm not sure it's the reason we should not do it. It's, for me atleast, huge qol of life that could enhcance expirience ingame compared what we have now.

Edited by kochinac

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