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DemonaNightshade

Valrei International: Feeding time!

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18 hours ago, CistaCista said:

I have a highly controversial idea: let's see how the new system works before we complain any more.

 

you must be new here. this is how you get stuck with horrible updates that don't get touched again or fixed.  ie fishing update, valrei "updates", bandaid fixes for the cluster that devs forgot exist, etc

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I would like to see Genesis changed to be able to remove ANY trait, not just those deemed as 'bad'.  If you are trying to breed speed traits and your horse has a draft trait, while not necessarily "bad', its not desired.  It would be great if you could remove it so it isn't passed on.

 

 

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On 5/17/2021 at 7:16 PM, Muse said:

 

Agreed.  Everyone who owns a 5-speed needs to know that their current horses will perform just as well as they do now, both for riding and driving.  If they will not, this needs to be stated up front.

 

From what I am reading all our current horses change and have 3 speed traits and 2 draft traits. They are all warm blooded too (default). And that wagons no longer get a speed bonus from horse speed, so they will perform not as good drafting and not as good speed (but have an advantage of breeding more speed traits). Pretty much what I read is we have to start over. And need more than 50 AH to get breed 5 speeds. (or how ever the speeds work now)

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1 hour ago, Bramson said:

 

From what I am reading all our current horses change and have 3 speed traits and 2 draft traits. They are all warm blooded too (default). And that wagons no longer get a speed bonus from horse speed, so they will perform not as good drafting and not as good speed (but have an advantage of breeding more speed traits). Pretty much what I read is we have to start over. And need more than 50 AH to get breed 5 speeds. (or how ever the speeds work now)

Somebody already answered here, not quite true, they are technically 2.5 speed and 2.5 draft since current fifth speed trait is actually both draft and speed trait. They will probably have to rework that so it's highly speculative what's its gonna be

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1 hour ago, kochinac said:

Somebody already answered here, not quite true, they are technically 2.5 speed and 2.5 draft since current fifth speed trait is actually both draft and speed trait. They will probably have to rework that so it's highly speculative what's its gonna be

The way I'd balance it is to simply remove the strong legs trait from the game, making all current 5 speed horses have 2 speed traits and 2 draft traits. This would make all current horses be in neither category (with warmblooded skin. But don't confuse the categories with their skins; warm blood isn't it's own trait category). Demona mentioned that the current animals will be slightly slower after the update, so I'm hoping that this is what they're actually doing since it'd make sense with that comment.

This way, bisons won't be fked. All the current breeding stock of people won't be fked if you decide to either focus on draft or focus on speed.

Then the new speed/draft traits would have to be acquired for the first time through breeding to put your animals in draft or speed category.

 

But I'm not balancing the game, so, eh. Just how I would probably do it to affect the current animals as little as possible.

Edited by Borstaskor

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4 hours ago, kochinac said:

Somebody already answered here, not quite true, they are technically 2.5 speed and 2.5 draft since current fifth speed trait is actually both draft and speed trait. They will probably have to rework that so it's highly speculative what's its gonna be

 

From GL chat yesterday:

[07:53:01] <Cistacista> Is there any confirmation on what will happen with the "strong legs" trait maybe?
[07:53:45] <Demonanightshade> its a speed trait.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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5 hours ago, Bramson said:

 

And need more than 50 AH to get breed 5 speeds. (or how ever the speeds work now)

 

We don't know that. If each speed trait for example costs 10 points, and 50 AH gives you 50 points, then that is 5 speed traits.

 

But we also don't know how many speed traits there will be. There are 43 traits. It's possible that there can be 7-8 traits that add to riding speed.

 

We just don't know.

 

Edited by CistaCista

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Another potential flaw of the new system I have been thinking on:

 

We recently saw priests and linking nerfed as a result of it not being considered that people would throw dozens of alts, or make mass efforts to use the system in ways that hadn't been envisaged.

 

The way I am thinking on points and AH levels, has it been considered that anyone who chooses to make a number of alts with differing AH values, or exists in a large village where there are such AH levels, will be able to use lower AH characters to breed horse lines to strip off unwanted traits that crop up to produce "clean" lines for breeding?

 

If offspring are going to favour breeding to existing pools, and we have horses that arrive with  say 4 speed and one undesired trait, by using a character that only has enough AH for the 4 speed traits to breed them, will this mean they produce clean 4 speed offspring?  Will 30 AH characters be able to breed our current 5 speed horses and en masse produce clean 3 speed foals for a higher AH character to breed with? 

 

The current system doesn't work this way, you can breed traited horses using a 0AH character, and even crossing a traitless horse with a 4 trait one, you tend to get foals that are the exact same as the traited parent, I've always felt that the system was probably set up this way exactly to prevent the scenario above, and that in one swoop this countermeasure is going to be removed.

 

 

Edited by Delone

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I spent two days running around steppe on Cadence and Melody looking for bison...NOT ONE SINGLE BISON SEEN! I asked in server freedom chat and all seem to agree that bison and horses aren't spawning in the wild. I don't blame breeder for doing what they like, just to be clear.

 

Wurm why in the world haven't you done something to fix the spawn availability problem?

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2 hours ago, Ogare said:

I spent two days running around steppe on Cadence and Melody looking for bison...NOT ONE SINGLE BISON SEEN! I asked in server freedom chat and all seem to agree that bison and horses aren't spawning in the wild. I don't blame breeder for doing what they like, just to be clear.

 

Wurm why in the world haven't you done something to fix the spawn availability problem?

I've never seen a wild bison on the south servers either...

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48 minutes ago, Zexos said:

I've never seen a wild bison on the south servers either...

these in the wild.. do not exist on release.. it's a myth

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On 5/24/2021 at 7:11 AM, Ogare said:

I spent two days running around steppe on Cadence and Melody looking for bison...NOT ONE SINGLE BISON SEEN! I asked in server freedom chat and all seem to agree that bison and horses aren't spawning in the wild. I don't blame breeder for doing what they like, just to be clear.

 

Wurm why in the world haven't you done something to fix the spawn availability problem?

 

I agree with you, it would be nice if there was some easy way to encourage people with large numbers of bison and horses  to not keep quite so many hoarded up, so that there was more to go around including freely spawning in the wilds. The alternatives that come to mind for me, seem like they'd get an even more negative reaction from the players

  • Increase the horse/bison spawncap -> This potentially has a negative impact on server performance, but doesn't actually fix the problem either, as people can just hoard the new population of horses, and we're right back where we are now. 
  • Decrease creature-tile ratios on deed -> This will just lead people to storing more creatures off-deed including males, and not-currently-pregnant females, in buildings where the creatures are safe from theft, but will also punish those who aren't storing mass bison, but just wanted say, a few of a variety of different creatures
  • Increase miscarriage rate proportionate to how close the creature population is to the server creature cap, up to a max cap of say, 33% or something -> This is the option I personally would like to see, but would likely get a lot of negative feedback, and may not fix the problem if there's enough horses just hoarded up and not being culled. 
  • Increase death rate of horses and bison by old age, even when cared for (cared for is necessary, otherwise people would just use 40 f2p alts to care for everything they care about, and the change would only punish those who don't create tons of care alts -> While this would definitely age out the oldest populations and consistently free up room for new horses to spawn, I can only imagine the amount of player anger over select creatures they've had for years dying off. Probably the most unpopular option, even though breeders would be able to do more sales, as people would need to periodically replace their mounts and such

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Another option for the list:

  • What about making it so animals on deed does not count towards the type ratio? So, if a friendly creature is killed, it would most likely respawn as a Bison, since there none available in the wild.
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Another idea: 

  • Allow bison to also spawn on grass instead of only steppe, so they would have just as much chance to spawn as other wild grazers like cows and sheep.
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2 hours ago, Arronicus said:

 

I agree with you, it would be nice if there was some easy way to encourage people with large numbers of bison and horses  to not keep quite so many hoarded up, so that there was more to go around including freely spawning in the wilds. The alternatives that come to mind for me, seem like they'd get an even more negative reaction from the players

  • Increase the horse/bison spawncap -> This potentially has a negative impact on server performance, but doesn't actually fix the problem either, as people can just hoard the new population of horses, and we're right back where we are now. 
  • Decrease creature-tile ratios on deed -> This will just lead people to storing more creatures off-deed including males, and not-currently-pregnant females, in buildings where the creatures are safe from theft, but will also punish those who aren't storing mass bison, but just wanted say, a few of a variety of different creatures
  • Increase miscarriage rate proportionate to how close the creature population is to the server creature cap, up to a max cap of say, 33% or something -> This is the option I personally would like to see, but would likely get a lot of negative feedback, and may not fix the problem if there's enough horses just hoarded up and not being culled. 
  • Increase death rate of horses and bison by old age, even when cared for (cared for is necessary, otherwise people would just use 40 f2p alts to care for everything they care about, and the change would only punish those who don't create tons of care alts -> While this would definitely age out the oldest populations and consistently free up room for new horses to spawn, I can only imagine the amount of player anger over select creatures they've had for years dying off. Probably the most unpopular option, even though breeders would be able to do more sales, as people would need to periodically replace their mounts and such

negative..shmegative.. we have hyenas and gorillas.. both are uttherly useless, same for the high boar spawns.. 

I find lava fiend spawns aboveground ok.. as they were 'rare' enough even underground.. sadly no champions or lairs for lava creatures.. besides spiders.. that alone could use an upgrade..

 

servers ahve creature caps, you probably cant increase spawns for 1 .. without lowering something else..  at the same time.. it's not like sea-horses are of any use to anyone..

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4 hours ago, Arronicus said:

 

I agree with you, it would be nice if there was some easy way to encourage people with large numbers of bison and horses  to not keep quite so many hoarded up, so that there was more to go around including freely spawning in the wilds. The alternatives that come to mind for me, seem like they'd get an even more negative reaction from the players

  • Increase the horse/bison spawncap -> This potentially has a negative impact on server performance, but doesn't actually fix the problem either, as people can just hoard the new population of horses, and we're right back where we are now. 
  • Decrease creature-tile ratios on deed -> This will just lead people to storing more creatures off-deed including males, and not-currently-pregnant females, in buildings where the creatures are safe from theft, but will also punish those who aren't storing mass bison, but just wanted say, a few of a variety of different creatures
  • Increase miscarriage rate proportionate to how close the creature population is to the server creature cap, up to a max cap of say, 33% or something -> This is the option I personally would like to see, but would likely get a lot of negative feedback, and may not fix the problem if there's enough horses just hoarded up and not being culled. 
  • Increase death rate of horses and bison by old age, even when cared for (cared for is necessary, otherwise people would just use 40 f2p alts to care for everything they care about, and the change would only punish those who don't create tons of care alts -> While this would definitely age out the oldest populations and consistently free up room for new horses to spawn, I can only imagine the amount of player anger over select creatures they've had for years dying off. Probably the most unpopular option, even though breeders would be able to do more sales, as people would need to periodically replace their mounts and such

While I can see you put a lot of thought into this, I just don't think there are ever going to be lots of freely roaming horses or bison, no matter how high they make the spawn rate. And the other suggestions will only perpetuate the leading away or killing ones found in the wild. Either for their hides or (leading away) a source for buffalo milk. Additionally, with the requirement to kill 20,000 animals and obtain 90 fight skill to complete that book/section of the journal, wild horses and bison will never last long in the wild. 

 

The miscarriage idea would make me hate breeding. As it is, the original birth expectancy can be up to 11 days and sometimes server restarts (i assume this is what does it) changes my timers, so it might be 14 or 15 real life days total before a baby is born. To have it then randomly miscarry due to server population, which is outside my control, would be extremely disappointing. After years of breeding, when I am expecting new foals, looking for them is the first thing I do every day when I log in.

 

If people can't find bison or horses (or cows/sheep/etc), I suggest asking someone who has a pair to breed a pair for them. I have happily done this many times with many types of animals including bison (always for free). I understand finding your own in the wild is "more fun", but it might be better to focus on it giving people the opportunity to interact with other players. 

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In my neck of the woods on celebration we used to have bison\unicorns and then none. Now unicorns are back but not bison. For a while we had lots of cows and sheep and now they are getting harder to find. I don't think the problem is with the amount of non aggro spawns because let me tell you everything gets killed and if that were the case some bison etc would eventually spawn in. I think the problem is they just are not spawning in period. It seems like some non aggro mobs get higher priority. I think the fix would be to allocate a percentage of the pool to each type of non aggro mob. This ensures something of each type will always spawn in somewhere on the server.

 

Myself I will not say I will never breed cows, sheep and bison in the future to play around with the new traits but my preference is to just grab some replacements from the wild  for the few of each i do keep for milk/wool.  Even when hunting I have been known to groom, milk, shear before I kill em!!

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19 hours ago, Arronicus said:

....

 

I don't want to punish breeders. I want Wurm to fix it's game mechanics so a breeders enjoyment doesn't negatively affect me or others.

 

Here are solutions...

 

1. It doesn't seem to matter if a breeder is able to exceed the spawn cap by breeding their animals. We are never stopped from breeding. So why would it matter if a non breeder was given the means to force spawn a breeding pair of fresh no-trait animals? It might go like this. Fill a food container with the appropriate food combination. Mark the container as a lure or trap. Wait for the server to do its RNG love and see if an animals spawns. NO MAGIC NEEDED! A common every day premium noob should be able to do this.

 

2.  Give us an alternative thing to ride and pull our vehicles around. This alternative thing should have no AI code. It would be crafted by players and be easy to do so. Here it doesn't matter if I can't find horses or bison to breed because I can just craft up a golem. This would kill breeders ability to sell animals but they could continue to breed animals for fun.

 

3.  Reduce the AI processing for domestic penned animals. and thus be able to spawn more animals.

 

4. The entire animal system encourages players to collect more and more animals in order to overcome the limitations. Speeding up breeding is a better solution then trying to slow it down with penalties. This would mean faster gestation time, no cool downs on breeding, no inbreed penalties, better ways for common non-magic players to influence traits. This will kill breeders ability to sell as folks will just make their own mounts/drafters. Breeders will still be able to have animals, just sell much less.

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Regarding Food Bowls in pens - One of my villagers was feeding the chickens for me, and recently had to take some time off for the holiday, so I took the task over. So forgive me if this is a little dated but I was not aware of this issue till now. 

    When in a chicken coop chickens require both food and water, so it stands to reason that they would require both in the food bowl, so my villager had both in there at all times. What I DIDN"T know was that water still shows as food in the bowl, so I would look at the bowl and think someone was helping me to tend the animals during her vacation. It was not till I did a check on one of the chickens that I noticed it was starving - then I checked the others - they were all starving. I wondered how that could be when I looked in the food bowl and visually there was still food in it. Imagine my suprise when I actually opened the food bowl to discover there was only water in it. Of course I fed the chickens and they are all fine. But I really think that when there is only water in the bowl, it needs to show that instead of a food graphic. 

   Thank you. 

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