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DemonaNightshade

Valrei International: Feeding time!

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Looking forward to the breeding rush.

Edited by Antony

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any chance to get know when or how long til we get all this?? lol. 😃 even just an estimation?

Edited by Aelha

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11 minutes ago, Aelha said:

any chance to get know when or how long til we get all this?? lol. 😃 even just an estimation?

 We do expect to have the animal update released by the end of this month,

 

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How come none of the questions and concerns after page 1 are being answered?

What niche are donkeys supposed to fill once they arrrive? They weren't mentioned at all in this announcement. What about bison? I assume you have a vision for these animals, why not share them with us?
Will animal spawns be changed? Wild horses have been non-existent for many months afterall. Is there a plan for making 0-trait horses once again available?

I find it very weird that the new breeding system seems to be centered around in-breeding and (ab)using negative traits.

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13 minutes ago, Josso said:

What about bison?

 

Those are actually mentioned in the part about traits. They have an inherent bonus for Draft on top of the traits, so it sounds like they might be the optimal choice for large carts and wagons. Of course they already have such a bonus right now.

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32 minutes ago, Josso said:


What niche are donkeys supposed to fill once they arrrive? They weren't mentioned at all in this announcement. 

They were mentioned in post before this as well as pictures. Presumably they are weaker version of horse for non premium players, all we know is that nonpremium will be able to ride them.

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I see a lot of people throwing around that our current horses will necessarily be slower because it'll be 3 speed traits and 2 draft traits.

 

But here's the fun thing; our horses' traits are already almost that!

Let's take a look at some numbers:

It has fleeter movement than normal increases base horse speed by 10%

It has a strong body increases carryweight by 10kg

It has lightning movement increases base horse speed by 20%

It can carry more than average increases carryweight by 20kg

It has very strong leg muscles increases base horse speed by 10% and carryweight by 10kg

 

That's 3 traits that do speed, and 3 that do draft! The only reason we've called it a speed trait is because horses have such low strength and we carry so much that those carryweight increases have almost always mattered! (fun fact: for hellhorses and their higher strength, if the combined weight of what you're carrying and the horse gear is less than 50kg, the two draft traits weren't giving you speed! You can check this with the code on this thread, or ingame)

 

That's why I'm still asking how our current horses measure up despite the apparent "reduction" in speed traits: there might not be one.

Edited by Stanlee
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4 hours ago, Ecrir said:

 

Those are actually mentioned in the part about traits. They have an inherent bonus for Draft on top of the traits, so it sounds like they might be the optimal choice for large carts and wagons. Of course they already have such a bonus right now.


Like you said, they already have such a bonus, but horses with horseshoes outperform them. Did the person writing this announcement not know that, or did they mean to say that the bonus will be increased? It seems to me that unless they get shoes like horses, it would still be rather pointless to breed them or put them on a wagon. Especially when draft horses will be a thing soon. Therefore I am wondering what the devs' vision for them is.

I played this game for close to a year now, and Ive seen one "major" patch. It gave me three new buttons during fighting, which randomly change position, and of which one button actually does something. The other two are useless. I'm just worried that the next major patch will be of the same quality.

Clearly they must know that people care about animal speed first and foremost. Seeing them add traits for improved butchering loot, which seems completely pointless, makes me feel like they spent even more dev time on questionable sidegrades. Combat has not improved in my opinion and what little they tell us of the inbreeding patch makes me doubt that this one will actually improve the game either.

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3 minutes ago, Stanlee said:

That's why I'm still asking how our current horses measure up despite the apparent "reduction" in speed traits: there might not be one.

They'd have to either reduce the effect of the current traits or not add any more speed traits (or rework how horse speed works) due to their multiplicative nature (which is only an issue on hellies for the most part due to the normal horses traits turning on and off, but a perma neutral hellie would make them more accessable for normal use), if you add more multipliers to a hellie suddenly everyone with decent gear is hitting the 55km/h cap, which you can already do with supreme gear, and current horses with more traits would have slightly higher average speed, but insanely higher max speed. Wouldn't suprise me if some of the traits were along the line of minimum speed increase or - difficulty for the skillcheck for other traits to activate or something to get around this.

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Sounds amazing for new players who have no clue how the game works.

So many options.

Lets try this game.

 

The feeding-stuff is nice and useful.

That would have been a good addition to the game.

Simple, pretty, handy (<- thats the way you make good updates, but no worries, no one does this anymore these days).

But not spectacular enough i suppose, SEE THIS AMAZING CLUSTER###### TWENTYTHREE NEW TRAITS sounds better.

 

Personally don't mind as long as my old bunch won't die because they're ###### up the caring-system.

I am fine with everything, as long as they don't touch the care-for-system at all and i don't lose my sheepy friends, the horses

i got since 10+ years and the few champmeows i take care for since years at our deeds.

 

 

Edited by Beewolf

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4 hours ago, Josso said:


Like you said, they already have such a bonus, but horses with horseshoes outperform them. Did the person writing this announcement not know that, or did they mean to say that the bonus will be increased? It seems to me that unless they get shoes like horses, it would still be rather pointless to breed them or put them on a wagon. Especially when draft horses will be a thing soon. Therefore I am wondering what the devs' vision for them is.

I played this game for close to a year now, and Ive seen one "major" patch. It gave me three new buttons during fighting, which randomly change position, and of which one button actually does something. The other two are useless. I'm just worried that the next major patch will be of the same quality.

Clearly they must know that people care about animal speed first and foremost. Seeing them add traits for improved butchering loot, which seems completely pointless, makes me feel like they spent even more dev time on questionable sidegrades. Combat has not improved in my opinion and what little they tell us of the inbreeding patch makes me doubt that this one will actually improve the game either.

This game had some amazing major patches during it's history, comparing it to fighting patch which was the biggest waste of time on major patch isn't really fair. I think the biggest problem with Wurm and patches is that it lacks some serious game designer, game is unbalanced as ######, and most of content is there just for the sake of being there...

There is no problem in adding other than speed traits, problem is the things those traits provide are useless and thus complete waste of time. For example pigs, even if you breed sort that gives extra meat, why would you do it, unless you get 10+ piglets instead of one like in normal life from mother,and even then, by the time they are born and fed to grown up you can hunt ton of wild animals and get a hundred times more meat. Thus that trait on pig and any other animal is truly waste of development time unless pork is in some way more special than other meats, and needed for something without alternative (in fact that's the case, bacon can be only be made with pork but it's so irrelevant in the game). In that context yeah, half of this is waste of precious development time, and I seriously can't understand how they don't get it. Game is dying once again, numbers on NFI skyrocketed down faster than I expected, and I thing they update policy with grandious reworks instead of delivering small things every 2 week is one that can take blame for it among others.

I have mixed feelings about update, looking forward to more options and more complexity, and having new thing to figure out and play with it, but in same time I fear they unecessary went overboard with it like with cooking and fishing...

 

P.S. I think bison should be able to equip atleast horseshoes, and btw will horse gear still impact speed on hitched creatures?

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Wurm question? 

Can you please give us a way to summon mating pairs of no trait farm animals? In order to overcome randomness folks just breed bigger herds. This change will likely cause even bigger animal breeder deeds. It shouldn't be hard to see that the spawn caps are going to be maxed making it hart to get started with animals.

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Don't know if this was said already but another big concern of mine is it sounds like inbreeding will actually benefit a player now. More likely to pass on negative traits means increased budget for positive traits and then you just Genesis the negatives after.

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@Zuelatak Genesis assures that negative traits aren't passed children. It doesn't actually remove the negative affect from the animal. It's confusing since the negative trait isn't in the examine list afterwards. The OP seems to hint at breeding animals whose point value was greater then whatever ones animal handling supports would be difficult in some way.

I see folks adding say negative speed traits and other non-essential negatives so they can have a combat ready draft bison.

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10 minutes ago, Ogare said:

@Zuelatak Genesis assures that negative traits aren't passed children. It doesn't actually remove the negative affect from the animal. It's confusing since the negative trait isn't in the examine list afterwards. The OP seems to hint at breeding animals whose point value was greater then whatever ones animal handling supports would be difficult in some way.

I see folks adding say negative speed traits and other non-essential negatives so they can have a combat ready draft bison.

Actually, genesis removes the trait at the moment (it's how we heal horses with the illness trait).  If it gets changed to what you say above, it would be a nerf to genesis.

 

Sounds likely given that the Devs just hate priests.

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2 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

Sounds likely given that the Devs just hate priests.

They like hastily nerfing things that've been standard for years, really. Based on this silence i'm willing to bet this new system is going to just force players to work harder for the same thing we have now

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@Etherdrifter I remember folks talking about how genesis doesn't make bad horses good. It just prevents traits from being passed onto offspring. Anyway this exemplifies another irksome feeling about this update. Given the past, we won't be given specifics on how it all works and it will be too complex to research. The end result will be lots of theories where no one knows what is what.

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3 minutes ago, Ogare said:

I remember folks talking about how genesis doesn't make bad horses good. It just prevents traits from being passed onto offspring

it both removes the negative trait from the horse and prevents it from being passed onto offspring due to it being removed. you can still randomly roll it if you have open trait slots

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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6 hours ago, Stanlee said:

 

It has very strong leg muscles increases base horse speed by 10% and carryweight by 10kg

 

 

 

 

OOPS!

I forgot strong leg muscles does that - right now it is in both "categories".

 

Since after the patch the categories will be "fighting" for supremacy within the foal, one trait must be assigned a specific category. 

Now I am worried that there will be a major overhaul of the existing traits, that might make them unrecognisable from what we know.

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59 minutes ago, CistaCista said:

 

 

OOPS!

I forgot strong leg muscles does that - right now it is in both "categories".

 

Since after the patch the categories will be "fighting" for supremacy within the foal, one trait must be assigned a specific category. 

Now I am worried that there will be a major overhaul of the existing traits, that might make them unrecognisable from what we know.

Ack,!

Here was me doing the same thing and putting it in the speed category and going "Well at least our current 5 speeds have 3 speed and 2 draught, that will favor the breeding of more speed traits" .

 

That really does throw a whole new bunch of questions as to what will happen with existing traits going forward.

 

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11 minutes ago, Delone said:

Ack,!

Here was me doing the same thing and putting it in the speed category and going "Well at least our current 5 speeds have 3 speed and 2 draught, that will favor the breeding of more speed traits" .

 

That really does throw a whole new bunch of questions as to what will happen with existing traits going forward.

 

 

It was actually confirmed on the first page that 5 speed horses will indeed end up with 3 speed and 2 draft traits:

 

On 5/17/2021 at 10:24 PM, DemonaNightshade said:

And currently, 5 speed horses/animals have 3 speed specific traits and 2 draft specific traits. So they will technically be a mix. But, because they have a majority in Speed traits it will be easier to breed speed horses from those parents so riding horses should come fairly easily once the update hits.

 

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4 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

  (quote)  "And currently, 5 speed horses/animals have 3 speed specific traits and 2 draft specific traits. "

 

Except that's technically not correct. Strong legs is *currently* not specific to either.

Edited by CistaCista

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51 minutes ago, Ecrir said:

  

 

It was actually confirmed on the first page that 5 speed horses will indeed end up with 3 speed and 2 draft traits:

 

 

Just points out that this has not been worked out very well, not that what was posted is correct.

 

Personally, I am increasingly offended by the idea that it appears that we are being encouraged to inbreed our animals, I am beginning to call this the Wurm "Morallly dubious" patch in my head. This is the embodiment of the puppy farm mentality - don't give a damm about the welfare of the animals, just as long as you can do well out of the offspring. Is this the kind of image Wurm wants? Because if it goes ahead with this, I can just see some of the reviews being posted, and may well be one of the ones making the effort to post a review specifically to mention it.

 

I have spent the last two days in game at a loss what to do with my breeding stock, and have completley stopped breeding. As it stands with the information we have been given so far, the only apparent thing I can do between now and the patch to work towards the new "meta" is to either inbreed my horses, or go looking for sickly stock to breed with them to introduce sickness and deformity, while relying on the RNG to push remaining traits to favoring either speed or draught. Both of these things I just can't be stuffed to do because of the way it makes me feel. Looking at every 5 speed pure traited foal that arrives and being saddened that it didn't turn out as a 4 speed, or a 4 speed with a negative trait is completely disheartening. Yes, they are only pixels and code, but if we are pushed into disregarding emotion and immersion in the game, then it's not a game I want to be playing.

 

I have put a PSA on my horse sales post letting people know that they really don't want to be buying my 5 speed horses now, as the upcoming patch means that they will probably be made almost instantly redundant, and cannot even be sure due to lack of transparency that they won't actually become worse than they are now the moment this goes live. I could be just continuing to sell them to the unsuspecting players who are not paying attention to this, but that's not in my ethic.

 

I am really hoping that the negative trait encouragement gets a rethink. It feels wrong and seems to have implications that have not been thought through very well at all (balance, global rite effect). New griefing method - build a 90ql Fo altar beside a breeders deed so that it covers all their breeding stock just before a Fo rite is up for casting? "Oh did that mess somebody up? I was just making a domain in the area for doing missions in." Or are we looking at changing the effect  of the Fo global? Having a global cast spell that can have a detrimental affect on others gameplay (morally dubious as it is) surely seems like a bad idea to me.

 

 

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Aside from the technical details of the patch, as usual, this is a communication nightmare. 

 

Could someone official at least post something either like "we anticipated all these issues and we'll go ahead anyway" or "Good points, we didn't think of this, we'll need a while to consider it". 

 

Why do players have to point out EVERY SINGLE TIME that communication is key in a community and why do official channels here fail at it EVERY SINGLE TIME?

 

Whats so hard with single line status updates?

Edited by Faerian
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Probably best to put off our panicking until we have all the relevant information and have had a chance to give the new system a whirl.  We can speculate until the cows come home (😜), but in the end it means nothing with regards to how gameplay will actually be affected.

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