Valrei International: Feeding time!

[Nukacola 60]

42 minutes ago, Delone said:

This all sounds so needlessly complex, hopefully the reality of it in action is not as bad as it looks. At the least, it's looking like breeding without using a Fo priest, as I currently do, will not be a valid option any more.

 

Current speed traited stock should not get any slower with these changes, if the traits they have remain, so should the benefits from them, and adding particular traits to them with ongoing breeding should have the possibility to make them faster. If it works to actually slow them down, this is not an update, it's a straight out nerf. Can we get an answer as to what the actual effect will be on current 5 speed trait horse stock?

 

Going to be so sad that speed traited horses are going to look like the hot blooded model, they look positively sickly in the preview

 

Can we get some transparency in this whole points system with a working list of what the traits are, their effect, and what their point value is? IE at 50 AH, is it even possible to breed a horse the same speed as you can now? Or will it require more just to get back to where we are now?

 

 

I am wondering the same thing, this was not addressed clearly at all for such a major change to AH.

[KindraShae 84]

39 minutes ago, Muse said:

 

Agreed.  Everyone who owns a 5-speed needs to know that their current horses will perform just as well as they do now, both for riding and driving.  If they will not, this needs to be stated up front.

It's already been answered... The current 5 speed horses have 3 speed traits and 2 of the draft traits... so will be reduced to 3 speed while riding. These 3 speed traits will not affect vehicle speed, but the 2 draft traits will.  So they will be middle of the road, with an edge toward the speed traits as riding horses. 

[Muse 2,219]

33 minutes ago, KindraShae said:

It's already been answered...

 

That is only if you are assuming with 23 new traits that there are still 5 speed and 5 draft traits - there could be more speed, or less draft for example, I didn't read any numbers - correct me if wrong.  Also these traits may not be evenly weighted, regardless of how many of each type.

 

If our current horses are all going to be nerfed slower, this needs to be clear.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Muse

[Borstaskor 503]

@gnomegates

Draft hell horses for the carts and the probably biggest buff to hell horses: NON AGGRO HELL HORSES FOR RIDING!

Get breeding! I want one of them non aggro rare hell horses! As far as I'm concerned, you can ride them at any age and a permanently cared for non aggro hell horse would be awesome!

Edited May 18, 2021 by Borstaskor

[Calan 86]

Could it be stated the minimum AH needed to consistently breed the fastest mounts without negative traits under the new system? Currently, it’s 50. My fear is this is becoming much higher, perhaps even 90.
 

If  higher than 60, this is a huge nerf and slap in the face to those of us who chose this gameplay understanding we’d be able to compete with vets, especially those like me that have relatively small herds (30-40). AH, unlike all the craft skills that come to mind, was actually a skill that a casual player could become competitive in without having to grind high skill, given patience with the slow breeding times.

 

I feel I know the answer: 80 if not 90 AH will be needed, meaning  AH will no longer be for me and a huge chunk of the reason I play will be removed. But it would be nice to know for sure what the devs have in mind as recommended AH skill level to be a competitive and effective breeder.

 

To me, beyond what I’m expecting to the increase in AH skill, it feels like AH is going the way of fishing, becoming an overly complicated system that suits fewer players. 

[Cecci 1,609]

Another question: With 23 new traits and 21 old, will we have 44 traits? (including color)

[gnomegates 1,427]

8 minutes ago, Borstaskor said:

@gnomegates

Draft hell horses for the carts and the probably biggest buff to hell horses: NON AGGRO HELL HORSES FOR RIDING!

Get breeding! I want one of them non aggro rare hell horses! As far as I'm concerned, you can ride them at any age and a permanently cared for non aggro hell horse would be awesome!

 

As they say...great minds and all that good stuff lol...

 

My concern is if hell horses are still the go to or if my 38 breeding pairs of moltens going to be replaced with donkeys...cute as they are, they don't breath FIRE!!!!!!!!

 

Over all, alot of exciting changes, will be interesting to see the different combinations possible and their uses, time to do the AH grind now.

[kochinac 1,395]

Just now, Calan said:

Could it be stated the minimum AH needed to consistently breed the fastest mounts without negative traits under the new system? Currently, it’s 50. My fear is this is becoming much higher, perhaps even 90.
 

If  higher than 60, this is a huge nerf and slap in the face to those of us who chose this gameplay understanding we’d be able to compete with vets, especially those like me that have relatively small herds (30-40). AH, unlike all the craft skills that come to mind, was actually a skill that a casual player could become competitive in without having to grind high skill, given patience with the slow breeding times.

 

I feel I know the answer: 80 if not 90 AH will be needed, meaning  AH will no longer be for me and a huge chunk of the reason I play will be removed. But it would be nice to know for sure what the devs have in mind as recommended AH skill level to be a competitive and effective breeder.

 

To me, beyond what I’m expecting to the increase in AH skill, it feels like AH is going the way of fishing, becoming an overly complicated system that suits fewer players. 

jesus, just grind AH over 50, its not even that hard. You don't expect person with 50 WS to sell top notch weapons, you dont expect us all to sit at 50 skill, do you? All your folks crying I have 50 AH,   i'm gonna be nerfed is ridiculous. Even if old 5s is not optimal anymore so what, it's still equal start for everyone, as long as it isn't nerfed in speed compared to now.

@DemonaNightshadeI belive the real question behind all this whining and concerns is, will current 5s horses be heavily nerfed in speed compared to now? or they will be of equal speed of what we have now, and new horses have potential to be faster... Because if i could ride at lets say 25 km/h and now i can ride only at 15 km/h and need to wait several months to get to 25 again then thats really bad, and people will be upset. We need more clarification about speed traits and how will they work with actual numbers

[CistaCista 253]

My condolences to all the amateur breeders out there. 

 

If I understand this right: us professionals with 60-70 skill will breed magic horses using negative traits, and then remove the negatives before selling - as it seems a horse will be allowed to keep all its good traits even though it technically has too many "points".

Amateurs will then have to buy these brillant horses for their personal use, but they will never have succes in any breeding attempts with them, because of the points are too high and they don't have a Fo priest. 

 

Good news is I am on the fence whether I will continue being in the market

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by CistaCista

[Calan 86]

6 minutes ago, kochinac said:

jesus, just grind AH over 50

Uh, no. I chose AH because it was one thing that didn’t need grinding to 90 to enter the market and the AH play actually suits the time I can commit . 60, ok, I’ll grumble and pull out the grooming brush I’d hope I’d never touch again (thanks you, humid drizzle). Any higher, no way.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Calan

[sarahbee 66]

9 minutes ago, Calan said:

I feel I know the answer: 80 if not 90 AH will be needed, meaning  AH will no longer be for me and a huge chunk of the reason I play will be removed. But it would be nice to know for sure what the devs have in mind as recommended AH skill level to be a competitive and effective breeder.

 

To me, beyond what I’m expecting to the increase in AH skill, it feels like AH is going the way of fishing, becoming an overly complicated system that suits fewer players. 

This is an important point and something that I think goes overlooked. Lots of players seem to believe that they should be richly rewarded for grinding arbitrarily high in any skill. In reality, skills where you CAN be useful or competitive or self sufficient without needing world-class levels in them are important for the game. Not only for solitary players and pvpers that just want to "check off" AH from their grind list and move to other things, but for players that DO want to specialize in them, participating in economy and/or their community, without needing to grind endlessly. When I played as a teenager, I almost exclusively did strongwall and enchanted grass casts, as those were 2 things that required no traditional Wurm grinding but let me be useful and make some money. Not all skills have to be worthwhile grinds to 90.

[Archaed 2,280]

1 hour ago, Loll557 said:

 

This please. 

I never got my name into the horse pool, sad  

[Etherdrifter 2,517]

You know what would be a great idea at the same time?  Gating genesis behind something you can't just get along in a sermon circle!

[CistaCista 253]

9 hours ago, Finnn said:

can we in any way see the rare traits.. can we lose and reset them somehow?(yes 2 in 1)

 

any future plans to make horse's visual hint or clearly tell what traits that horse have?

 

 

 

I think rare traits are seen like all other traits. Not invisible. (But of course you might need high skill to see it.)

 

They wrote "won’t be seen (or passed on) as easily/often as normal traits".  I take that as meaning simply that it will not be GIFTED as often as normal traits.

Edited May 18, 2021 by CistaCista

[Borstaskor 503]

So basically (speculations)..

 

Hell horse breeders will be breeding personal mounts with the rare passive trait for riding.

Bison breeders will breed wagon/large cart mounts for moving/delivering items and basic digging/mining/woodcutting/etc. vehicles.

 

Horse breeders will be breeding animals that might be a bit faster than bison for light carts (for maybe a hunter, forester, or general all-round deed use) and for people with mid-game budget (It's not like being able to afford a cart of double passive hellhorses every 3 months is something most people will be able to afford, so horses will probably still have a lot of use).

 

Sheep/cow breeders will be breeding resource animals (which I'll assume has lower AH requirement to "max out" but is also, obviously, less useful for a large portion of the playerbase). Let's hope those resources get a bit more use in the future.

Donkey breeders - Too little info to speculate about their niche

 

Mule breeders - ???

 

"Revived" addition (due to it now maybe actually might be worthwhile??): Combat pet breeders - more exotic pets for combat and what not.


This sounds very interesting and as someone who doesn't do AH, I might start looking in to getting in on this.. Sounds like fun!

Edited May 18, 2021 by Borstaskor

[Delone 215]

1 hour ago, KindraShae said:

It's already been answered... The current 5 speed horses have 3 speed traits and 2 of the draft traits... so will be reduced to 3 speed while riding. These 3 speed traits will not affect vehicle speed, but the 2 draft traits will.  So they will be middle of the road, with an edge toward the speed traits as riding horses. 

 

I not so sure that's accurate, the three speed traits should affect speed directly, and the two "draught" traits effect speed by allowing more weight. If the traits continue to do this, then the horses will not actually be any slower.... they just won't be the straight out fastest horse you can breed, and you will need to weigh (excuse the pun) up if you want a horse that doesn't slow down as much when you are overweight, or one that can be faster when it's not encumbered?

 

It seems to be more clear that the speed traits will have no effect when hitched, but as I said, up front transparency would be greatly appreciated.

 

On a re-read, I think what is actually the most upsetting is the fact that the ONLY way to get the best horses will involve gaming AH skill by the use of negative traits and a Fo priest to remove them afterwards. This seems to me to be vastly unfair to the majority of players who don't have a Fo priest. Imagine telling a smith or carpenter that the only way they can craft the best gear is by having a priest cast something  that boosts the ql a certain percent, or that you can't create a  top ql tool unless it has some other flaw that is required to be removed once you have pushed it as far as you can - this is the equivalent.

 

On a positive note, the feeding changes look awesome, I would have said this sooner, but by the time I got to the end of the OP, the AH stuff had totally driven it from my mind.

 

 

[Ecrir 887]

Really looking forward to this update. The category system sounds like a good way to help breed animals for a specific purpose and speed and draft being different categories sounds really interesting, I look forward to breeding some drafting bisons after this. The resource category sounds interesting as well, especially if it means that we can effectively do more with less. I'll have to grind up AH on some more characters for more slots so I can keep more specialized breeding stocks around. I also like that negative traits will now have an upside and thus an opportunity cost. No longer are they just bad and undesired. The rare traits also sound interesting.

 

Does feel like Genesis might need to be looked at. If a Fo priest can simply remove negative traits then that negates the entire opportunity cost associated with those negative traits and a Fo priest might have a massive advantage when selling animals. Right now this isn't the case since you can get rid of negative traits entirely through normal breeding and there's no upside to having negative traits during the breeding process.

 

I do have one question. Right now I don't keep pigs because, compared to other animals, they are a chore to feed. What will feeding them look like with the Feeding Through? Mainly as in, how often would we need to fill it up on average to keep pigs and such fed? And would the upper limit on the frequency be how fast the food ends up decaying away? If so, would it perhaps be possible to add specific animal food which decays far slower, but which needs to be made with a new cooking recipe? Like say, Kibble?

Edited May 18, 2021 by Ecrir

[Borstaskor 503]

I hope some consideration will be put in to balancing this properly to possibly address some of the issues a lot of people commenting here have, such as their 50 AH skill can't compete with 90 AH skill anymore.

 

I'm in firm belief that a higher skill should be better than a lower skill. This is how it works for more or less every skill in wurm.

 

Let' me give a hypothetical balancing act:

Let's say 50 AH can breed a full speed horse (hot blooded), with every speed trait. Or a full draft horse (cold blooded) with every draft trait. Maybe they'll need to use a few negative traits or maybe they'll need to grind to 64 AH to only need 1 negative trait or however those players would want to tackle the problem. Maybe someone will be using a ton of negatives and pull this off at 40 skill (see someone making a very good pizza at 50HFC using every ingredient vs someone using half the ingredients at 90hfc making a worse pizza, for example).

A lot of people would probably be fine with their riding horse being unable to be used as a hitched animal or that their hitched animal cannot be unhitched to be ridden. Therefore, 50 AH might still be useful to provide animals for those players. I can imagine people paying more for a rare slope traited Cold blood horse than a non rare traited horse a 90+ skiller can produce.

 

But then some people might want to be able to unhitch a single horse from their cart to use as a riding horse.. So a 90+ AH player may be able to breed a "spraft" horse (warm blooded), that could have this very niche usefulnes. They would probably end up more expensive to buy in the market, for obvious reasons.

 

 

If that hypothetical scenario would end up being reality, then I don't see any issues at all. Yes, some people will get negatively affected in the way that they can't sell the very best goods at 50 skill, but honestly, they also shouldn't be able to. Animal husbandry is annoying to grind? Let's see weapon smiths complain about that and be given the ability to sell the very best weapons at 50 skill.

 

Basically, it's too early to complain and whine. To the whiners: Can we just try the constructive criticism/suggestions/discussion approach instead? Feel free to start whining once it's on the test servers and getting dangerously close to release without improvements, such as what happened to combat.
 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Borstaskor

[kochinac 1,395]

6 minutes ago, Borstaskor said:

But then some people might want to be able to unhitch a single horse from their cart to use as a riding horse.. So a 90+ AH player may be able to breed a spraft horse (warm blooded), that could have this very niche usefulnes. They would probably end up more expensive to buy in the market, for obvious reasons.

thats the part i really dont understand with whole traits categories/body types. Will it theoreticly be possible(might that even be with 90+ skill and Fo cleanup afterwards) to breed horses which will be optimal for both riding and hitching to cart and how will they look like(i assume like normal horses), are those current 5s horses? or there will be added new 2 speed traits and new 3 draft traits? Are horses going to have traits that are from categories that are not related to them like more milk and wool cuz that would create mess with filtering out traits on them.

Full detailed explanation before release, heck even before starting work on it would be nice so we can give proper input would be ideal. This situation only creates unnecesarry unrest and confusion.

[Borstaskor 503]

Quote

thats the part i really dont understand with whole traits categories/body types. Will it theoreticly be possible(might that even be with 90+ skill and Fo cleanup afterwards) to breed horses which will be optimal for both riding and hitching to cart and how will they look like(i assume like normal horses), are those current 5s horses?

 

From reading the "shaping up beautifully" section (more specifically, the warm blooded part) of the OP, that's what I'm assuming. If you assume that it's not possible, then that section also doesn't make sense.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Borstaskor

[CistaCista 253]

24 minutes ago, Borstaskor said:

Animal husbandry is annoying to grind? Let's see weapon smiths complain about that

 

I agree with all your points. We should be fine with a 60 AH person having some advantage over a 50 AH person, and a 70 or 80 AH person being able to breed some better horses more easily.

 

I just want to remark that AH is actually MUCH more challenging to grind than the workshop skills. Slower does not mean more challenging!

For example:

a) you have to move around all the time, so focus on where you are going, and plan your path. Walking takes time.

b) you also have to REMEMBER which animals you already did

c) you cannot just queue 5 actions and then go put your kettle on. You can, but you will probably succeed in grooming the first time and your character will just stand idle

d) you need  to be feeding 600 animals if you want to grind all through the day. Very few people have the setup to be able to grind constantly.

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by CistaCista

[Oblivionnreaver 5,174]

22 minutes ago, Borstaskor said:

getting dangerously close to release without improvements

12 hours ago, DemonaNightshade said:

We do expect to have the animal update released by the end of this month

[kochinac 1,395]

1 minute ago, Borstaskor said:

 

From reading the "shaping up beautifully" section of the OP, that's what I'm assuming. If you assume that it's not possible, then that section also doesn't make sense.

I belive it will be possible, but curious will that be 5 speed traits + 5 draft traits which would then be locked to 100 skill, or as alternative you could do it with negative traits and lower skill and then clean up  afterwards, which might piss people but would be really nice reward for high skill I must say

[CistaCista 253]

11 minutes ago, kochinac said:

 to breed horses which will be optimal for both riding and hitching to cart

 

If they are really increasing number of traits from 20 to 43 then I expect you will NOT be able to do that unless your horse has 10+ traits.

 

But we could be misinterpreting their words and the 23 new traits are not "new" traits.

Edited May 18, 2021 by CistaCista

[Borstaskor 503]

Quote

I belive it will be possible, but curious will that be 5 speed traits + 5 draft traits which would then be locked to 100 skill

 

They said between -10 and 20. I'd assume some traits might weigh more than others and not all speed traits are worth exactly 20. This will continue to be an assumption tho until more info is released.
Their exact words on the OP are "Each trait is now worth a certain amount of points (from -10 to 20)".

 

And @Oblivionnreaverholy crop, I totally missed the part where they expect it to be released at the end of this month.. Yeah, we definitely need more info, or possibly some test server time and preferably kind of asap.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Borstaskor