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Zuelatak

Rift Point Rework

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Current Problem

Rift Participation Points should be awarded based on effort put in. Currently the system doesn't care about your skill or however much effort you put into fighting. The BEST way for someone to gain participation points is to go around spam targeting mobs in melee range in order to get a "tag". Then when the mob dies with your tag on it you get points. Imagine being an elite fighter around 90 fighting skill killing mob by mob and getting less points than someone who just started the game and isn't actually helping take on the rift. It's even worse for those that thought defensive fighting would be useful.

 

Proposed Point System

Points would instead be based upon the combination of Damage Dealt, Damage Healed, and Damage Mitigated. This benefits all forms of fighters and encourages more participation towards actually closing the rift and becoming a better fighter. All fighters who put work in will walk out with more reward and feel more achieved. Also, with damage mitigated providing points it would encourage tanks use their skills like taunting which would now have a major benefit.

 

Additional thoughts

These are some other things that might benefit from having points, but are not the main focus of this thread. Sacrificing hearts (I've heard it's currently 1), Butchering, and Burying. These would encourage ending waves quicker, and cleaning up the field. Potentially something good for those not too skilled in fighting.

 

 

 

For those that wish to help this post grow and get more discussion PLEASE spread it to others. If you want change to happen in this game we need to band together and create a louder voice. Also, PLEASE provide reasoning as to why you support or oppose this idea.

Edited by Zuelatak
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Only if 100 rift isn’t required for journal completion, sure. But then again, these may discourage lower skilled players. Maybe just do time spent in (meaningful) combat with rift mobs. Then keep heals balanced based on in game data. 

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1 hour ago, LionIX said:

Only if 100 rift isn’t required for journal completion, sure. But then again, these may discourage lower skilled players. Maybe just do time spent in (meaningful) combat with rift mobs. Then keep heals balanced based on in game data. 

I personally feel like a reworking of rifts shouldn't be dependent on the 100 rift journal entry. Although if this were to decrease your chances to get to 100 a future post asking for it to be tweaked I think would be reasonable.

 

I do think this discourages lower skilled players, however the point of this change is to benefit those who put in the work to level their skill. You wouldn't expect a level 1 Blacksmith to get the same benefits as a level 90 Blacksmith. Fighting to me is a lackluster skillset that only truly benefits you at Private Slayings, and I believe this change would create a lot more meaning to it.

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"The BEST way for someone to gain participation points is to go around spam targeting mobs in melee range in order to get a "tag". "

Thx for the info XD

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9 minutes ago, Muunkey said:

"The BEST way for someone to gain participation points is to go around spam targeting mobs in melee range in order to get a "tag". "

Thx for the info XD

No problem ;)

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Forgot to mention this, but for those of you that like this post PLEASE spread the word. If you really want change you have to push for change and I hear people complain about rifts all the time but then I make this post and it's so quiet. Let's make this game better together!

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Alright, let's say this is implemented.

 

This will reduce the total number of rift points gained overall, and slightly increase the amount gained by high level players.  The value of rift items might increase as they will no longer be available to players below a certain fighting skill.

 

You'll disenfranchise mid level players who want to earn points, and cause conflict when a couple of high level players force the rift through all four rounds quickly for *their* quick points.  Lower level players simply won't bother turning up.

 

I can see where your idea is coming from, but I think putting something like this in would be a lightning rod to drama;  it would reduce quality of life for a large number of players at the price of increasing it for a few.  The general impact would be to further reduce rift attendance, with no real upsides apart from stroking a couple of egos.

 

Simply put, it would make things worse, not better.

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Tagging is silly, something like "If you're fighting a rift mob any rift mobs that die within x tiles of you will give you points, even if you didn't target them" would help with that part of it. Not really sure how i feel about higher stats = more points.

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Though the current system is not ideal, the proposal is worse, as Etherdrifter already explained.

 

That said, I must say that the effect of targeting as much as possible is highly overrated. I tried to "optimize" my points that way just to test for two or three rifts, then went back to my normal practice of attacking what I deemed useful for the overall fight, e.g. taunting off the jackal whacking players fighting an ogre from behind which is not only helpful but also trains my taunting ;) . The difference observed from those "optimized" versus normal point gains was at best 10-15% if at all, not recognizable from the averages of all 130+ rifts I fought in. So the change would not help the higher level and more experienced a lot, but would frustrate and discourage low and medium level players, those who most enjoy rifts, at least here in SFI.

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15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Alright, let's say this is implemented.

 

This will reduce the total number of rift points gained overall, and slightly increase the amount gained by high level players.  The value of rift items might increase as they will no longer be available to players below a certain fighting skill.

 

You'll disenfranchise mid level players who want to earn points, and cause conflict when a couple of high level players force the rift through all four rounds quickly for *their* quick points.  Lower level players simply won't bother turning up.

 

I can see where your idea is coming from, but I think putting something like this in would be a lightning rod to drama;  it would reduce quality of life for a large number of players at the price of increasing it for a few.  The general impact would be to further reduce rift attendance, with no real upsides apart from stroking a couple of egos.

 

Simply put, it would make things worse, not better.

A few points here... 

 

We already have players that want to fly through the rounds.

 

Lower-level players already don't turn up for rifts unless informed of how they function.

 

Drama is a side effect of change. 

 

What do you propose we do to fix rifts? The current system is hot garbage.

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15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

This will reduce the total number of rift points gained overall

Con: This may be true, but this is a balance issue and is easily resolved by adjusting values. The discussion is what kind of system we want to be in that then gets balanced, not how to balance. That is a discussion for after a system is implemented and mostly done by the devs. 

 

15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

and slightly increase the amount gained by high level players.

Pro: I'm thinking this would actually increase the amount a good amount. Not a huge amount, but more than slightly. 

 

15 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

The value of rift items might increase as they will no longer be available to players below a certain fighting skill.

Pro: It WILL increase, and most likely a good amount as well. Just as low level Smiths can't achieve high QL items and high level Smiths are more valued.

 

16 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

You'll disenfranchise mid level players who want to earn points

Con: I wish you would provide more reasoning for points like this as it just seems like you're shooting down the idea without giving it thought. This change shouldn't effect mid level players much. It gives more rewards to high level players and less rewards to low level players just as every other system in the game. I don't know how to address this more without your reasoning behind it, but I believe this incentivizes you to do better unlike the current system.

 

16 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

cause conflict when a couple of high level players force the rift through all four rounds quickly for *their* quick points

Con?: What do you mean by force? This is just how a rift would go? People would be focused on ACTUAL participation and therefore rifts would go faster and people would be rewarded for their participation. Could you please elaborate on the "conflict" that would arise? Without reasoning there's no way for me to discuss with you. Also, it isn't *their* it is THEIR points. You are not entitled to any points you did not work for and the points that they got for doing those four rounds are in fact theirs. It is not stealing from you if that is what you are implying.

 

16 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Lower level players simply won't bother turning up.

Con/Pro: This will most likely happen. The con is that less players means less overall rewards going back to your earlier point, but can still be adjusted later through balancing. However, less people also means less time and less difficulty because those low level players are just making it more difficult and providing little to no contribution. 

 

17 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

it would reduce quality of life for a large number of players at the price of increasing it for a few.

Con: It would reduce the quality of life for those that do not participate and greater increase the quality of life for those that do participate. If that is what we don't want then so be it, but AFAIK almost every aspect of this game is based of effort = reward, NOT any effort = same reward. The extreme of this would be if everybody who was in local to a rift got the same rewards regardless of what they did. In a system like that I imagine most wouldn't feel the desire to do anything because it would not benefit them to do so.

 

17 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

with no real upsides apart from stroking a couple of egos.

Con: The upside again is that those that ACTUALLY participate and put in effort are rewarded. This is a HUGE upside. There would be no point for levelling skills if this same logic was applied to every other skill.

 

17 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

Simply put, it would make things worse, not better.

Con: To me it's simply put that it would be like every other system in the game and finally be rewarding.

 

17 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

"If you're fighting a rift mob any rift mobs that die within x tiles of you will give you points, even if you didn't target them"

Suggestion: While this is very far off from what I'm asking for it may still be a step in the right direction. It does encourage more participation than the current system, but it to me is a very small step and a big point to my change is to provide more purpose to the fighting skills and the playstyles that come with it. Like there are so little actual tanks on PvE. This also nerfs the amount of points fighters can get cause you will no longer get credit for kills not near you, so people will still be upset. 

 

7 hours ago, Ekcin said:

That said, I must say that the effect of targeting as much as possible is highly overrated. I tried to "optimize" my points that way just to test for two or three rifts, then went back to my normal practice of attacking what I deemed useful for the overall fight, e.g. taunting off the jackal whacking players fighting an ogre from behind which is not only helpful but also trains my taunting ;) . The difference observed from those "optimized" versus normal point gains was at best 10-15% if at all, not recognizable from the averages of all 130+ rifts I fought in.

Stats: I'm actually baffled by these statistics. Myself and everyone around me that has used or uses this mechanic sees substantial differences. I can show up to a rift on wave 4 and still get 5th place whereas if I'm truly trying to help and fighting one mob at a time from the start I'll be like 15th. How many people are at the rifts you go to? The difference between unoptimized and optimized point gain scales with the amount of people at a rift. If there were 1,000 players at a rift and you weren't tagging I'm sure you'd be missing out on like an 80% difference. 

 

7 hours ago, Ekcin said:

So the change would not help the higher level and more experienced a lot, but would frustrate and discourage low and medium level players, those who most enjoy rifts, at least here in SFI.

Con: It would help the higher level and more experienced a lot, so I would love to see your reasoning for why you said that. It would no longer reward low level players for doing nothing and incentivize them to do something. Medium level players are practically untouched by this change as they would remain on the baseline of the current system. It would also provide more meaning to those who enjoy fighting and work towards being better at it. 

 

3 hours ago, shuego said:

Rift changes when????

If you like my proposed changes please leave a like on it and spread it around!!! We need to all take part in order to create change. 

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Another point that I would like to add that I was going to throw in a future post is the ability to receive your rewards when offline or on a different server that you can leave at any time if that was a concern at all here. I do think that is a good concern, but not one that really matters here since rifts will be less of a time commitment with this change.

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4 hours ago, Zuelatak said:

Con: This may be true, but this is a balance issue and is easily resolved by adjusting values. The discussion is what kind of system we want to be in that then gets balanced, not how to balance. That is a discussion for after a system is implemented and mostly done by the devs. 

 

Pro: I'm thinking this would actually increase the amount a good amount. Not a huge amount, but more than slightly. 

 

Pro: It WILL increase, and most likely a good amount as well. Just as low level Smiths can't achieve high QL items and high level Smiths are more valued.

 

Con: I wish you would provide more reasoning for points like this as it just seems like you're shooting down the idea without giving it thought. This change shouldn't effect mid level players much. It gives more rewards to high level players and less rewards to low level players just as every other system in the game. I don't know how to address this more without your reasoning behind it, but I believe this incentivizes you to do better unlike the current system.

 

Con?: What do you mean by force? This is just how a rift would go? People would be focused on ACTUAL participation and therefore rifts would go faster and people would be rewarded for their participation. Could you please elaborate on the "conflict" that would arise? Without reasoning there's no way for me to discuss with you. Also, it isn't *their* it is THEIR points. You are not entitled to any points you did not work for and the points that they got for doing those four rounds are in fact theirs. It is not stealing from you if that is what you are implying.

 

Con/Pro: This will most likely happen. The con is that less players means less overall rewards going back to your earlier point, but can still be adjusted later through balancing. However, less people also means less time and less difficulty because those low level players are just making it more difficult and providing little to no contribution. 

 

Con: It would reduce the quality of life for those that do not participate and greater increase the quality of life for those that do participate. If that is what we don't want then so be it, but AFAIK almost every aspect of this game is based of effort = reward, NOT any effort = same reward. The extreme of this would be if everybody who was in local to a rift got the same rewards regardless of what they did. In a system like that I imagine most wouldn't feel the desire to do anything because it would not benefit them to do so.

 

Con: The upside again is that those that ACTUALLY participate and put in effort are rewarded. This is a HUGE upside. There would be no point for levelling skills if this same logic was applied to every other skill.

 

Con: To me it's simply put that it would be like every other system in the game and finally be rewarding.

 

Judging from what *you* (and it is *you*, not you) deem a pro, you are focused entirely on economic gain from the rifts, bringing it further in line with other skills to make them a commodity.  This honestly just reads as "I should get more points at rifts because I trained my fighting skill"; which is utter garbage because it ignores the people doing the real work at rifts.

 

What about the folks who build the safe areas, the priests who teleport folks in, and the folks who prep and make saccing materials and bring gems for the healers?  Are you going to reward them?  What about the folks who trail-blaze, putting up signs and maps?  These are people who turn up the day before (some the moment the rift appears), and are continually working before the rift even starts, mostly it is people like that who make the rift an experience, not the people doing the killing.  Are you going to reward the people who gather up mounts for teleportees too, or the ones who cart/sail their neighbours to the rift?

 

You're arguing that the people who contribute should be rewarded, but you've failed to see who really contributes and assigned that role to the most visible participant.  Ask around and you'll find that it isn't the guy in glimmer up front, hacking into the ranks of jackal critters, that people think deserves the reward, or even the priest spamming LoF to keep folks alive (and it really is hard work keeping some of you folks alive, trying to tank a rift ogre in studded leather is just not a good idea!), it's the people who do everything to make all of that possible.

 

You want to make rifts like other systems in wurm, but your suggestion fails to do that.  Wurm's existing systems reward all forms of participation, not just the ones most visible at the end, and this would really turn rifts into events the majority of the population would avoid.

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19 minutes ago, Etherdrifter said:

 

Judging from what *you* (and it is *you*, not you) deem a pro, you are focused entirely on economic gain from the rifts, bringing it further in line with other skills to make them a commodity.  This honestly just reads as "I should get more points at rifts because I trained my fighting skill"; which is utter garbage because it ignores the people doing the real work at rifts.

 

What about the folks who build the safe areas, the priests who teleport folks in, and the folks who prep and make saccing materials and bring gems for the healers?  Are you going to reward them?  What about the folks who trail-blaze, putting up signs and maps?  These are people who turn up the day before (some the moment the rift appears), and are continually working before the rift even starts, mostly it is people like that who make the rift an experience, not the people doing the killing.  Are you going to reward the people who gather up mounts for teleportees too, or the ones who cart/sail their neighbours to the rift?

 

You're arguing that the people who contribute should be rewarded, but you've failed to see who really contributes and assigned that role to the most visible participant.  Ask around and you'll find that it isn't the guy in glimmer up front, hacking into the ranks of jackal critters, that people think deserves the reward, or even the priest spamming LoF to keep folks alive (and it really is hard work keeping some of you folks alive, trying to tank a rift ogre in studded leather is just not a good idea!), it's the people who do everything to make all of that possible.

 

You want to make rifts like other systems in wurm, but your suggestion fails to do that.  Wurm's existing systems reward all forms of participation, not just the ones most visible at the end, and this would really turn rifts into events the majority of the population would avoid.

 

On 5/6/2021 at 10:24 PM, Zuelatak said:

Damage Dealt, Damage Healed, and Damage Mitigated.

 

In the many rift setups I've handled I never once felt "I need to be rewarded for putting up 16 fences!"

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1 hour ago, Synjor said:

In the many rift setups I've handled I never once felt "I need to be rewarded for putting up 16 fences!"

Embarrassing derailing attempt. That was never Etherdrifter's point. Rather he wanted to point out that a rift is more than higher FS players whacking mobs and "deserving" reward for.

 

As a matter of fact, there will never be a "just" system. When reading through all threads concerning rifts I find a lot of critique which is mutually contradictory, not seldom exclusive. Highest level veterans are ranting about the 100 rifts "duty" and want to shun rifts altogether. Players from lower participation timezones complain about too few rifts inside their timezone. Some complain about priests being "overly" rewarded.

 

Under my impression, those players getting least rift points are complaining least, and having most fun. That shows that rifts are not so bad altogether. Still I find quite a number of points open for critique and improvement. But most proposals of "better" systems are outright terrible.

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I see a lot of "shutting down" and not a lot of helpful suggestion. Rifts are garbage in their current state. Be it the lag, "participation" points, garbage audio, AI. This game needs updates and not content. Rifts are the same as they were five** years ago and that is a problem. Rifts are just the start of the problems with Wurm player retention.

 

I have no problem moving on to a game that does update and improve. I am sure other people have the same mindset.

Edited by shuego
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Continuing with false statements does not make them true. Rifts are indeed not what they were ten years ago. And writing garbage does not make rifts garbage.

 

As to the lag, I am playing on Xanadu, the arguably most lag plagued server in Wurm (though at the moment, there are no real lag issues), particular lag during mass events has not occurred though. Same with mass events like public slayings and impalongs on other servers. Last really bad lags occurred during the issues with the login server. And lags during rifts were and are not an issue. Of course, during mass events, it is advisable to trim down performance sensible client settings, especially on low to medium performance graphics controllers.

 

The change from random rewards to participation points was probably a sensible move. I still have lots of left or right single shoulder pads of different types to name a few, also stealth rings and similar. Maybe the devs should evaluate which stuff is purchased over the rift points shop, and which is shunned to update stocks. But I must say that I did get but one metallic liquid (the probably most popular rift reward) during my first 35 or so rifts before Jackal launch, and could purchase what I needed since. I cannot see participation points as a failure. That does not mean that they are perfect.

 

As to the audio, it is always a matter of taste. To be honest, I switch off audio most times, not only in Wurm, especially when in on-call duty ;) . But certainly proposals for improvement are welcome, real proposals, not brainless rants.

 

But I agree that the game needs fixes, improvements, and updates over new content.

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43 minutes ago, shuego said:

Rifts are the same as they were ten years ago

They only exist for 5 years or am i missing something?

 

With current setup they reward cheesy play style while they were introduced as end-game content at the time of implementing.

End-game goals have moved as more people reach the current "i beat the game" mark so they need updating or new content needs to be added.

 

With proposed setup they would become the end game content again but effectively exclude large part of the population because "why bother? it's the vets who will rake in the rewards anyway".

 

I don't have a solution but i do agree that they are in need of rework, seeing how many people complain about them.

 

Point distribution currently rewards those who meta through the rift and penalizes those who do the heavy lifting, which, in my book is not ideal.

Would i be happy if i did most of the work and got less than someone who risked very little and just tagged the mobs? - No.

Would i be happy if i was the one tagging mobs and cheesing it for points and this system was changed? - No.

 

There will always be people who aren't happy with the solution but the current one is almost uniformly hated so those posts, at some point, are bound to give birth to a decent idea or a combination of ideas.

 

Edited by Locath
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6 minutes ago, Locath said:

They only exist for 5 years or am i missing something?

Got lost in time. You're right.

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I probably should not engage in this, but here we go anyways. First, let me get some stuff out of the way. I understand that the rift system could be improved and am I also not against changes.

 

I think many people want the rift system to be changed, but I think they want it from different angles. One thing I really like about Wurm is that if I grind stuff, to make myself better, that affect me. However, it does not push other people down. If a change is to be implemented, I hope it will focus on the enjoyability of playing, engaging, and having fun, fix the "I want the most out of this, so all I do is tag stuff, not fun, but most efficient" problem, and things like this. I do not believe the core problem with the rift is that elite players needs to have bigger reward for attending.

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8 hours ago, Ekcin said:

Embarrassing derailing attempt. That was never Etherdrifter's point. Rather he wanted to point out that a rift is more than higher FS players whacking mobs and "deserving" reward for.

 

As a matter of fact, there will never be a "just" system. When reading through all threads concerning rifts I find a lot of critique which is mutually contradictory, not seldom exclusive. Highest level veterans are ranting about the 100 rifts "duty" and want to shun rifts altogether. Players from lower participation timezones complain about too few rifts inside their timezone. Some complain about priests being "overly" rewarded.

 

Under my impression, those players getting least rift points are complaining least, and having most fun. That shows that rifts are not so bad altogether. Still I find quite a number of points open for critique and improvement. But most proposals of "better" systems are outright terrible.

 

10 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

What about the folks who build the safe areas, the priests who teleport folks in, and the folks who prep and make saccing materials and bring gems for the healers?  Are you going to reward them?  What about the folks who trail-blaze, putting up signs and maps?  These are people who turn up the day before (some the moment the rift appears), and are continually working before the rift even starts, mostly it is people like that who make the rift an experience, not the people doing the killing.  Are you going to reward the people who gather up mounts for teleportees too, or the ones who cart/sail their neighbours to the rift?

 

Ask around and you'll find that it isn't the guy in glimmer up front, hacking into the ranks of jackal critters, that people think deserves the reward, or even the priest spamming LoF to keep folks alive (and it really is hard work keeping some of you folks alive, trying to tank a rift ogre in studded leather is just not a good idea!), it's the people who do everything to make all of that possible.

Wasn't an attempt to derail lmao. I don't care to type walls of text over a discussion that's just ignored by the devs anyways; his point is that more work goes into rifts outside of smacking mobs, which is true. But the original suggestion does take into account priests healing getting them points, just as they already do. 

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The current tagging system is a broken system, and benefits those who know about it, while those who have no idea, mainly new players, are not able to take advantage of the tagging system and will never be able to keep up. Currently skill does not matter at all at a rift for the purpose of gaining points. Any player can go there with zero skill and be near the top of the point system and cheese the rewards. That is a drain on the others at the rift by those who do that. They are adding difficultly to the encounter while offering nothing to balance that out. This I don't feel applies to others who cheese the system by tagging, but then also help to kill the mobs. As it is very easy to tag everything around you then focus down a target. Any high skilled player can do this, and many do, to their advantage. I use the tagging system, but I also have high end gear and 86 fighting skill and I help clear the mobs after tagging. It is not a hard thing to do at all and the game is set up for this method and the rewards from getting 150 points vs 500 points can be fairly noticeable.  We are talking about the difference of 40-50ql rift mats vs 90-100ql rift mats. With the difficulty of crafting the runes, that ql difference does matter.

 

I do agree that part of the experience of the rift is by those who do the prep work, many times its the locals who do it. Its also those who do help by bringing friends and those summoning others. But I don't understand why that is even brought up as an issue in the discussion of rebalancing rifts. All those things are called being a good neighbor, or being friendly. I summon to unique events all the time (when we have public ones) I almost always bring other people with me via cart to rifts. I also almost always bring a crate of cotton for those that forgot theirs or run out. Do I expect to be rewarded, or even desire that, no, I do not. I do so because it is part of the experience and I want to add to that experience. I would suggest that most others that do the same thing also do so for similar reasons and don't desire any kind of reward. Nor do I even think that kind system, of rewarding those that do the "grunt" work is even possible. There is no way to put a value on that kind of work. So that leaves us with what things a value can be put on. Value here I am meaning a numerical value of creating a system that would give out rewards. There is no way to put into the system that each person summoned, or brought, or each cotton shared, or each gem given has a point value. The value of said actions is in the action it self and the motivation behind those that do said things for the good of others.

 

The idea of a point system, be it tiered or some kind of scale should take into account as many factors as possible. Damage done, damage taken, damage healed, damage mitigated, bodies butchered, bodies buried, hearts sacrificed and anything else that can be thought of. Every action that can be measured within the rift could have a value given. This would give anyone and everyone there options to earn points. Using cotton to heal yourself or another player...you get points, you want to butcher the bodies to get the meat and bury them...you get points. You use a shield and block some damage, you get points. Every action possible that is a benefit to the closing of the rift should have a value. Now how those numbers scale or if there is some tier system, or how that looks, I have no idea, that is beyond my design ability and would require massive balance so that another tagging issue does not happen. Some meta that everyone uses to the expense of no one doing any of the other actions that reward points. 

 

I think that there should be more rewards that can be purchased that are a benefit to all levels of players and all play styles. It is clear to me that many of the players at rifts on NFI are new players. I ask at most rifts who is new there, and I always get more then a handful, and every rift there are different new players. While rifts may have been designed for end game, new players are showing up and want to have a go at them, and they should. Giving rewards that are geared towards them as well as those that are geared towards more veteran players could go a long way to making rifts desirable to many more players. Create some kind of cosmetic items that can be purchased. Cosmetic items are something that Wurm should be taking advantage of so much more. So many missed chances to make the player base happy by simply adding in cosmetics. 5,000 rift points, purchase a taxidermy kit to make a stuffed version of your favorite mob. 3,000 rift points, get a new cool hat, or cosmetic staff, or wagon covering...so many things to make going to rifts more desirable, things that everyone can use and attain.

 

Just some thoughts, sorry for the wall of text, in short...more balance, more points, more stuff = more fun for everyone!

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This tagging stuff is extremely overrated. I would call those who claim to get 500 rift points (useless anyway due to cap) by tagging liars. In fact the high point scores belong to priests doing AoE casts, mainly healing or healing/fight buffing (LoF, SoL), maybe a few combat spells in addition. These are the same priests that summon players to rifts, on the expense of their own gems most times. As to targeting: Somebody targeting all mobs around him while a pack of beasts is taking turns taunting him (funny and dangerous ability of these creatures) having to stay no more than 4 tiles away from killed creatures, will almost certainly be a dead player soon.

 

As said, having the experience of about 130 rifts, old pre Jackal style, and all modifications since, cannot say that targeting makes much of a difference. And my gear is adequate, so are my fight skills (look at Niarja if you are nosy). My points, after having bought several metallic liquids, are still over 14k . Without "cheesing" which is boring and dangerous. The loudest ranters about the alleged targeting abuse (SFI) I haven't seen on any rift since years.

 

That said, I appreciate the proposal of better rift rewards. The old style stuff is mostly unattractive, maybe except a few rift jewels, and a few shoulderpads.

Edited by Ekcin

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