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Oblivionnreaver

Rarity windows get consumed by actions that don't go through

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Not really sure if this is *entirely* a bug, or it's just a really weird system that's working as rolf intended, or only some are bugs, but rarity windows will be consumed by actions that have no chance of rarity and don't go through, and have no actual "action" ingame. Basically anything that gives "actions performed" "right click menus" or "actionclass time" will consume rare windows. Some things i could understand being a thing even if they're stupid/annoying, such as using a g-series key to try 1 imp with all of your tools consuming the rare window on a failed imp with the wrong tool and cutting your rarity chance by 1/5 due to only the first imp attempt being able to get rare windows, but things like examining, right click windows, or doing anything that can give "You answered an old question. It has timed out over 15 minutes or been replaced by a more recent." can consume rare windows aswell, which doesn't seem intended. Combined with the very low chance of imping rare actually going through, its no wonder why rare spamming has reigned supreme for so long, as these oddities are much easier to get around with a crafting window

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Isn't that normal, rarity system is not ideal, you 20-30 seconds randomly every hour, how you spend that random 20-30 seconds is up to your actions, and the hardware macro is just "wasting" them by trying different actions, you still have the same time 20-30 seconds window, where is the flaw?

 

Right clicking around or using wrong tools is all the same to doing nothing in that randomly triggered 20-30sec window.

                                                                                       this? ^ 

Am I missing something?

 

--additional edit

Does triggering 1 action in the window(right click menu) kill the window or any following action(s) can still trigger the 'MOI' roll as long it's during the rarity window? 

Edited by Finnn
this? ^

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Hmm then I guess I now see why I literally never get any rare rolls while imping stuff. Only activities with an actual timer should consume a rarity chance - correct me if I'm wrong and there is any way to roll rarity without a timer.

Edited by Jaz

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I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding your concern,  but it feels as if you might be thinking that when you get an inspiration window, it’s held until you perform an action that could benefit from it? If so, that’s not how it works. The inspiration window will randomly open and close, regardless of whether a) you’re doing something that can benefit from it, or b) doing something that can’t benefit from it, or c) even doing nothing at all. I.e., if you’re ever standing doing nothing, you’re just as likely to have an insp window open and close as when you’re crafting or imping.
 

Keep in mind you are not given a fixed number of inspiration rolls per hour. You have a (small) chance of one however often the roll happens. Eg, if they happen ever minute, you’re just as likely to get a roll one minute as the next. Some have gotten multiple rolls within minutes, others have gone hours grinding a task waiting to get the roll. It’s entirely down to rng and whether you happen to be doing something when the window opens for you.
 

So getting inspiration on a useless task has zero effect on your chance to get another inspiration on the next tick.

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9 hours ago, Calan said:

but it feels as if you might be thinking that when you get an inspiration window, it’s held until you perform an action that could benefit from it?

nowhere in my post did i say anything alluding to that. it's talking about how things that have no actual action ingame, such as examining something ingame, or things that usually have an action, but don't in a certain scenario, can use up a rare window. Say you craft something inside a rare window, it's going to be rare when the craft ends due to being inside the rare window, but during the timer you examine an item, the rare window will be used by the examine and there will be no moment of inspiration, despite the fact that examine isn't even an actual action that should be able to effect it, or how trying to queue up an action before the imp, say you tried to imp with a lump when the item needs a whetstone, the rare window will end because it was used by the fail improve attempt by the lump, even if you started a whetstone imp before the window would have ended had you not tried to imp with a lump.

 

I'm well aware of how the window works, I've made a log parser a few years ago that compares time spent doing actions to moi's to get average moi's/hour, doing something that has 0 chance for things to mess up such as grinding mining, i get 5 minutes of mining per click with no right click menu's and on average over my 100 mining grind a MOI happens every 1h55m, i've got enough of a sample size to compare other actions to to see how much this feature/bug/whatever reduces moi's/hour. When i use my imp grinding g-series key thing, i average 1 rare window every 37 hours on average over a period long enough to grind multiple skills to 95+, due to my bind being bv1v2v3v4v5 , b being repair and v being improve, it quite literally has 1/18th the rare rate of mining due to repair consuming a large amount of rare windows, and failed imps from the wrong tools doing the same thing. I don't have any exact info on how much the right clicking effects this, as right clicks don't give log messages to compare, but comparing skills that use right click menus (such as me talking to people, mailing things out, stuff like that) to ones that don't (me mining with super long timers, barely interacting with the game), there's enough of a decrease in rare windows even without g-series keys that it's not a statistical anomaly.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

nowhere in my post did i say anything alluding to that.

1 hour ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

I'm well aware of how the window works


Debatable. I don’t think you really explained your concern very clearly, at least for me. I starting writing a reply earlier, but stopped because I started to think maybe I was misunderstanding you. But Finnn’s reply seemed to take the same interpretation I took, so I thought maybe I was understanding you and went to add my reply.

 

But I’m afraid still not following what your saying (eg, the keybind example is meaningless to me). So I’ll pull out and leave it to others who might better understand the way you’re expressing your concern.

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"action" or action that doesn't happen - eats your rare roll

 

examining - not an action by sane definition, still will consume your rare roll

 

his keybind - activates each tool in his toolbelt, tries to improve with each of them, and repairs between each

 

using this keybind means wurm consumes rare rolls with EVERY ONE OF the improve/repair commands sent, even though most of these don't result in actions

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Your misconception (some of the people answering here) lies in the assumption that you've got a rarity window and EVERY action you complete in it can result in a rare item. So what you seem to think is, if the window is 15 seconds and you imp 5 things with a 3 second timer, you have 5 chances to get a rare. The truth is, only the first action completed has that chance and thus "eats the window". Now, if you imp something, examine something else while the timer is counting down, then the examine will eat the window and you never get a chance with the imp.

 

Obviously, that's stupid behaviour...

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I'm a Steam n00b, and am trying to get a handle on the rarity system. I saw this. Then I saw this: 

Rolf explicitly states messing with inventory or materials can make you lose the window (second paragraph of his response).

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I'm confused why other people or confused here. Actions that do not benefit from being rare should not consume a moment of inspiration. I don't want my once in a lifetime fantastic roll being consumed by an examine or accepting a friend request.

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36 minutes ago, Zuelatak said:

I'm confused why other people or confused here. Actions that do not benefit from being rare should not consume a moment of inspiration. I don't want my once in a lifetime fantastic roll being consumed by an examine or accepting a friend request.

BUT.. WHO CARES?

If you do not do any actions during that time - nothing happens and you've wasted so many fantastic rolls that never rolled already, your action still rolls if it fits in the moment of inspiration window(unless here we're talking that action starts - you right click and BOOM - YOU invalidate your action - here I see a problem if it works like that; if that isn't a thing... there's no issue.. as all actions still count in that window or the window counts only 1 action(?) - afaik the window can have 2 actions and multiple rolls within it or that's not true?

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42 minutes ago, Finnn said:

unless here we're talking that action starts - you right click and BOOM - YOU invalidate your action - here I see a problem if it works like that

 

That is exactly what is being described above.

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In the couple years following the addition of the rarity system I had improved a dozen rare items just by getting weaponsmithing for 70.  At one point some users broke it.  Now at the present, if a user is having an auction for 37 rare pickaxe heads, and not pickaxes, then that means something else is broken.  All that is left is quotes about how the rarity system was supposed to work.  It's good to know that so many people have made rares over the years that it isn't a big deal.  Today's rares are all made by multiboxing.

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