Pwnin

Pwnin returning to wurm online!

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When I come back I'm going to want to know you all, so get ready to make room for a returning player.  I might be seen on your deed. 

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I'm still working on getting a computer but once I do I'm more than going to play when I saw the activity and other recruitment posts I got eager I am still having issues picking a cluster rather north or south freedom isles.  But I sure not letting that get in my way. Can't wait Pwnin

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Posted (edited)
On 4/19/2021 at 1:10 AM, Pwnin said:

I'm still working on getting a computer but once I do I'm more than going to play when I saw the activity and other recruitment posts I got eager I am still having issues picking a cluster rather north or south freedom isles.  But I sure not letting that get in my way. Can't wait Pwnin

May I advise you to pick one of the NFI servers? I myself am a veteran from SFI ( Xanadu ) but made a new character on NFI (cadence), since 1) on NFI you actually have a chance to trade and be useful since it's a fairly new server with people still leveling their skills up and 2)

 

To be future proof, I'm sure if Wurm wants to drop a few servers in the future, they will do that will the SFI and not NFI obviously.

 

Crossing NFI to SFI and vice verca is not (yet) available but i've heard it will be in the future.

 

Welcome back and good luck!

Edited by Berms

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2 hours ago, Berms said:

on NFI you actually have a chance to trade and be useful since it's a fairly new server with people still leveling their skills up an

that ship has long sailed lol

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On 5/8/2021 at 4:54 PM, Oblivionnreaver said:

that ship has long sailed lol

Not really  and im a living proof :)  on Cadence for only 5 months

it's still way better than SFI servers. can't deny that fact.

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ok so all those 99 channeling priests and 99 imping skills and even the 98 weaponsmith i saw were fakes, good to know :)

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Posted (edited)

I have to agree with Berms here.

 

Just because there exists people with 98 weapon smithing skill doesn't mean it's not possible to be a weapon smith without very high skill.

 

Making up some numbers here, but it's very possible to still see my point, even with some made up numbers:

Imagine 200 population but 20 people have 98 weaponsmithing due to the servers simply existing for longer.

Now imagine 200 population but 2 people have 98 weapon smithing.

 

 

My point is obviously that there's waaaaaaaaaaaay less amount of people with high skill in relation to the amount of total players/population on NFI compared to SFI. NFI has higher population than SFI to begin with. Simply put, the demand isn't lower on NFI (higher population...) but the supply is considerably lower and it's a lot easier to start supplying (anything other than bulk) if you start playing on NFI as a new player than if you started playing on SFI as a new player. Quite a lot more options when bulk isn't your only realistic option.

 

So.. about this part..

 

Quote

on NFI you actually have a chance to trade and be useful since it's a fairly new server with people still leveling their skills up

 

.. I definitely see this being true. I think you'd have to try really hard while being in quite bad denial to not see the truth in that.

Edited by Borstaskor
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1 hour ago, Borstaskor said:

Imagine 200 population but 20 people have 98 weaponsmithing due to the servers simply existing for longer.

Now imagine 200 population but 2 people have 98 weapon smithing.

If there's 20 people with 98 weaponsmithing but 18 don't play anymore, and one doesn't participate in the economy then they don't matter for the discussion at hand. Going off the amount of posts in trade chat and the forums the amount of competition on nfi is leagues higher than sfi.

 

Speaking with friends who did the whole  market thing they're making a few gold a month with imps, and the one friend i talked to on sfi who does the whole market thing (i literally have 1 friend out of dozens who actually still do the market thing because it's just not that fun lol) he's also making a few gold a month, he goes out of his way to avoid posting in trade because he actually wants to play the game instead of being flooded with wtb's all day.

 

I'd say you're just attributing your advantages of being a returning player that you can turn into a market advantage into a "this market is better than the other". anecdotal evidence is 🤷‍♂️

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This idea that NFI and SFI have become equal because a few people have reached high skills is just not true.

 

On SFI you have people giving away in bulk good enchanted tools...Not selling for cheap, but giving them away, by the hundreds to those who simply ask. So much so that they are posting them here on the forums to advertise giving away said items in bulk. So many free high end items being given away that they cannot give them all away. How is ANYONE who wishes to carve out their place in the Wurm economy supposed to compete with vets that give away the very product that any new player would aspire to make and sell.

 

On SFI there are posts of high end enchanted rare tools being sold at a fraction of what they go for on NFI. 100+ enchants on 95ql+ rare tools being advertised for 5s. Those same tools on NFI still fetch 20-40s depending on the tool. 

 

Just because one person has hit 98 weaponsmithing on NFI in no way means that things are equal between the servers and that they are ready to be merged. 

 

Simply look at the auction pages of the two clusters and compare prices. Spend some time in NFI trade chat and see that people are actually buying and selling, there is trade going on, new players are selling their goods and making a Wurm living every day, and I see new faces every day in trade trying to make a place for what they wish to do in the Wurm Economy. 

 

On NFI you still have farmers selling crops at 1.5s - 4s per 1k (depending on ql) They are selling in Bulk at those prices, which means there are buyers at those prices. You ask how do I know what they are selling? Because I'm one of the sellers, I'm involved in the market place and talk to other sellers and buyers. The same crops sell for less then 1s per 1k in massive bulk on SFI, if they can be sold at all.

 

There are many other reasons why the SFI and NFI servers are not even close to being ready for merging, the few examples I have given just scratch the surface.

 

I'm not going to discount that there may be some good reasons to merge the servers, as I believe that there are, but for my playstyle and many others like me, it would not be a healthy thing to do. 

 

I came back to Wurm because of the idea of a fresh start, many of us did. There is no way I would have come back to Wurm if I had to be on the old servers and compete with the economy there, and I know there are many more people like me. Merging the NFI and SFI economies would destroy the game for many people. There is no reason why I should want to continue training up my Lib priest to sell BOTD enchants if I had to give them away because there there were so many flooding the markets.

 

Will SFI and NFI get to the point that they are equal and should be merged, sure I think they will, and at that time merge them, but they are not even close to that point and spending a little time in trades and watching the markets will show that.

'

Just my two cents...

 

Have fun.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
Quote

If there's 20 people with 98 weaponsmithing but 18 don't play anymore, and one doesn't participate in the economy then they don't matter for the discussion at hand.

 

Oh, so basically all the high skill players on SFI have quit and only the bottom low skill players remain then? So the average skill is most certainly not higher on SFI?

There are not more "high skill werapon smiths per capita" on SFI than it is on NFI? I mean, really? Like, for real?

 

I don't buy it. I see no logic nor wogic in that. Just simply knowing that SFI has existed for literally 15 times as long (which, truly, is a REALLY big number. Helloooo?) should be enough to come to certain conclusions and being in incredibly deep denial would be the one and only way to come to a different conclusion. I truly hope you're not trying to convince me otherwise as you generally seem like a really smart person.

 

Basically, I believe that Berms is correct in the fact that it's easier to get in to the market and compete with people if you start on NFI and if you believe otherwise then.. I guess we simply just don't believe the same thing. I don't believe, even for a second, that that ship has sailed.

 

Quote

I'd say you're just attributing your advantages of being a returning player that you can turn into a market advantage into a "this market is better than the other". anecdotal evidence is 🤷‍♂️

 

I'm not a returning player. I'm one of the new players who's making a living in-game and participating in the market. I even started playing months after NFI launched (which you can see below).

My /playtime says:
[20:28:51] You entered through the portal to Wurm on Luck day, week 2 of the starfall of Diamonds, 1097. That's 159 days, 1 hour and 59 minutes ago.

Edited by Borstaskor

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10 minutes ago, Borstaskor said:

Just simply knowing that SFI has existed for literally 15 times as long (which, truly, is a REALLY big number. Helloooo

and people can skill multiple times more effectively than people in the past. Accounts that were 1k+ euros in 2015 would get smoked by some of the accounts i've seen on nfi (there's accounts with 5+ 95 skills, 70 strength accounts, pvp accounts that would go toe to toe with the accounts on chaos that have been recycled for a decade). 99 channelling accounts weren't a thing until years into wurms lifetime (even getting 80 channelling priests via champing on wild was considered gamebreaking years into its life and changed) and we had them within a month of people priesting up on nfi.

 

If you apply yourself correctly (which is going to require experience in the game regardless of cluster, which is what i was getting at before) you'll make bank on whichever server you play on, and the "economy health" isn't really a deciding factor on what server. For every person that successfully does this starting out, 10 fail and go back to buying silver from the shop or burn out from grinding for silver and quit, it's a cycle i've seen many times over the years, good for the people at the top who sell them enchanted tools i guess. I can't really speak for bulk making and such which from gnomegates post sounds like it's more profitable over there, but from what i can see and going off what i've been told by people who do the market stuff, <80 imps are a contested market that relies on repeat customers who know who you are and 80+ imps are about as equally lucrative on both clusters. 1 silver on sfi will buy you more than 1 silver on nfi though, so a 1s imp here vs a 2s imp there probably ends up being about the same.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not saying you can't make money on SFI and you can only make money on NFI. That'd be an extreme thing to say.

 

I'm basically saying (and believing) what I said above:

Quote

Basically, I believe that Berms is correct in the fact that it's easier to get in to the market and compete with people if you start on NFI and if you believe otherwise then.. I guess we simply just don't believe the same thing. I don't believe, even for a second, that that ship has sailed.

 

 

Quote

1 silver on sfi will buy you more than 1 silver on nfi though, so a 1s imp here vs a 2s imp there probably ends up being about the same.

 

While this is correct within the market itself, there is still a very large difference: One month of premium doesn't cost 20s on NFI.

Edited by Borstaskor

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17 hours ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

ok so all those 99 channeling priests and 99 imping skills and even the 98 weaponsmith i saw were fakes, good to know :)

Lol so just because there are some top lvl players doesnt meen the amount of LOWER level players is affected. 

 

SFI servers are overly saturated with top level players since they exist for so long, obviously.

 

I know alot of SFI players don't like me pointing the obvious but facts stay facts.

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1 hour ago, Berms said:

Lol so just because there are some top lvl players doesnt meen the amount of LOWER level players is affected. 

SFI servers are overly saturated with top level players since they exist for so long, obviously.

I know alot of SFI players don't like me pointing the obvious but facts stay facts.

The amount of your self delusion is stunning. The "market chances" for new and low level players in NFI are no better, even ways worse that in SFI. "The market" in NFI PvE was in the hands of Wurm veteran alts from the very beginning. They new all the tricks (mind the wisdom of vynora exploit, the extensive usage of linking etc. which lead to nerfs which had not been considered worth while for a decade), could level up orders of magnitude faster than newcomers who had to adapt to the relatively unusual Wurm game mechanics. They had their networks, and could easily specialize.

 

Insofar I contradict OR. The ship has not sailed right now, it left the shore from the first day on, picking up speed while the crowd struggled to learn swimming. Granted, a few fresh wolf cubs may have joined the pack, but the majority are the sheep on whose blood .. oops silvers is preyed on.

 

I had a look through my NFI alt lately (a nearly totally unskilled observer, I play him quite seldom) on the trade chats on NFI, and this observation confirmed what I already saw on trade forums, in whose hands "the market" is, apart from some slaving for bricks etc.

 

Granted, PvP makes a difference on NFI, where even now, at least some PvP seems to have survived (I tell from Niarja population figures, can't tell from observations other than forum posts). Some ranted about the "communist bubble" of PvP communities. Well, there is some truth in that compared to market enthusiasts.

 

On SFI indeed, veterans tend to be more generous than on NFI, which is not hard for them as the number of newcomers is moderate, so are the prices. And (horrible, isn't it) much good stuff is given away during impalongs, or just so so. Most more experienced players (would not call myself veteran after 3+ years but picked up a few skills and knowledge though) are more interested in their own grinds and projects than dominating a tiny marketplace. And granted, if a lower level player is searching for "income", crafting and selling crafting products is not a good choice. Slaving for support beams, bricks, mortar, or concrete may be (dunno), but picking up rare coins by the known ways, along with selling the marketable rares, should suffice to maintain a small to medium sized deed, even stack up some savings. All in all, newcomers' life is easier on SFI. 

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It's probably similar to living in a city versus living in the country. In a city earning potential can be better, because there is higher population density and selling prices are higher, but these high prices also mean the cost of living can be higher too.  'Swings and roundabouts' probably.   It comes down to the type of lifestyle you want.

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