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Gingeko

Suggested changes to new Trade Channel Rules

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Changing the PC to whispering only harms the community.

 

No one can correct people from telling someone the wrong price, nor can anyone else see the prices from day to day. This hinders people from safe guarding others from then jacking up the price and then selling them as a profit. or lowing the price then buying up the good at a lower price. this to me is VERY counter productive on the market system and the game as a whole. The Market system itself is spotty  at best, these new changes makes it even harder to sell things. please rethink your demand on sending us to PMs.

 

Gin~

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I disagree with the new Trade Channel rules, in that you are not allowed to answer a PC with a PC.  You now have to answer with @name meaning that nobody sees the answer.  It is extremely useful for the community to see the answer to a PC, otherwise how are people supposed to learn the prices?  Plus not answering publicly allows unscrupulous (or just wrong) people to give inaccurate prices.

 

So, my suggested change is to allow public answering of PC.

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If someone wants to respond to a PC with the correct price there's nothing that stops them from doing that - And if they only respond to pricechecks to correct others that give an "incorrect" estimate I don't think they have the best interest of the person asking in mind anyway.

 

I absolutely understand what you're saying and where you're coming from, but the PC conversations in trade chat often drag on for ages and derail into arguments about what a correct price is and what jagoffs the others are and this and that. It's been an issue for a very long time and I'm glad it's been addressed. And again: Anyone is free to give an estimate with the @ tag, and if someone doesn't want to give a pricecheck unless they feel they need to correct someone else they probably don't have the "correct price" as top priority, but rather the need to be "right" or a need to hype up their own prices.

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Should just say along the lines of "Answer PCs with a brief response, any further discussion should be had using @ or private messages"

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Merged 2 similar suggestions.

 

Edit - 

Can I just say this: It's not said that not more than one person can answer a PC. The rule is to avoid discussions clogging up Trade.

 

Edited by neopherus
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Well I had something typed out but it got lost in the merge.

 

I agree this needs to be changed back. Stick to the old rule and then just actually enforce it. If people derail or it turns into chatter they get warned, repeats get muted, or have their trade chat powers removed.

 

Yes it can be an issue sometimes where it turns into too much, but having the solution be taking out market information that could be helpful to others is in my opinion a bad solution. Aside from digging through forums to get an idea of price which can be outdated or old or hard to find or even removed (since people like to just clear their threads on sale) doing PCs in trade is one way to keep up to date on the current market. There are also times when a PC given is just completely wrong, whether it's just based on old sales or old players coming back using old information or somebody trying to change prices. There are those who give PC information not to gain themselves but to help the person looking and getting wrong information.

 

I much rather see price checks and the odd constructive discussion on prices pop up in trade then the posts that are just the exact same post every 30-60 minutes all day every day, or for auctions and posted on the hour for a week to promote an auction etc.

 

In the end, I think this is a bad move and should be changed back. For those who do enjoy the market aspects of the game it's helpful information.

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So, I'm really new, but I would like to toss my support in for keeping Price Checks public.  As others have said, many other players might have the same question or just need to get a sense of what the economy is like and hiding that information behind PMs is unhelpful.  Even worse if people take advantage of this to screw people over knowing no one can correct them.

 

So full support behind keep it public, but enforce the idea of "give an answer then take it to PM" instead of "everything hidden in PM".

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I don't like the new rule either. As some have said before this will make ripping off newbies to trading very easy. I keep track of the trade chat myself because I consider myself as a trader InGame. And it is far more often, that only 1 person answers a PC than several people. So yes, of course there may be more answers to a PC via @<name> than just one, but as I said, for the most part people don't get an answer or just 1 answer because not everyone knows the answer. People who wanna do harm, will do it and use this new rule to their advantage. The new rule has a very high potential to crash the market, as well as harm the community and make people quit, because they found out the got ripped off - AGAIN!
I have seen several people trying this before and only a quick respond from other people to that persons wrong answer prevented someone from getting ripped off. And I am talking about prices that were lower at least 50% and up to 90% even. People invest real money in this, which should be taken into consideration.
On top of that: I have only witnessed 3 or 4 events where a PC got out of hand and ended in a lengthy discussion that lasted maybe 15 minutes if at all this long. So these few occasions can and should be handled different. For example with a mute or maybe 15 minute ban if needed to stop further unnessecary discussion.
Further: I think it is very useful if there are some smaller discussions about prices. It strengthens the community, hinders people to harm others by wrong PC. I always felt it regulates itself very well. Which I personally find more annoying than discussions in trade are PM's asking weather one is looking to buy and if you say no, you will never hear another sound of that person. A PC is a PC and not a WTB or WTS. Cuz this behavior is practically the same as having to use the @<name>. None else sees the answer.

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Thumbs down for censoring (the new rule that forces you to engage in secret). If you really believe the community members are incapable of managing themselves, maybe we should go be elsewhere.

 

Edited by Maimed
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I agree, people should be able to respond with a price to a price check in trade chat.  I personally use the trade chat logs to check for prices on items and only post a price check if I can't find any pricing.  Having prices sent via PM only harms the community in general.  Not only will there be more posts looking for price checks on the same items, but it will allow for "shady" people to scam others by saying the item is only worth a few copper and they will buy it off of them when it is really worth a lot more. 

 

How about getting more moderators to enforce the non-trade related chat rules instead of punishing the rest of the community by not allowing the pricing information to be public knowledge?

Edited by UnclePyron
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-

Edited by Yserin
no longer playing, Per the mismanagment of AH update
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most pc's are complete garbage with people that are buying telling you its cheap, people selling saying its expensive and clueless people saying everything inbetween. less biased arguments in trade chat is fine

 

if you want a real pc for a nonbulk item do an auction

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remove pc's from the 'trade' chat that's not meant to incur discussion entirely?

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Yeah, i think this is kinda "beyond" any solution, the market is slow and random and most of PC are just people trying to over or undervalue stuff to their own advantage or having poor understanding in general. 
People decide price checks either on "lowest price they have seen that item go for in history" if they are interested in undervaluing. or just some made up number if they are trying to overvalue it.

At least giving a public PC was an opportunity to call BS on whoever was trying to manipulate the market or just should just stopped giving PC in general.

And i swear i want to cry when i see people STILL claiming that 1k actions = 1s regardless of the item, even in NFI server when literally even DIRT is easily sold for 2s/k

At this point, if you want to stop the spam in trade chat, just remove the chance to ask for a "PC" entirely and either deny them or move them to freedom chat.
In most cases it's probably better to do own research or to have a non-biased friend that can try to help you determine the value of something.

Having a couple of people PM you whatever their idea is, without anyone to check on that, is probably the worst case scenario we can have.
 

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9 hours ago, Yserin said:

this I do significantly less PC in trade since I can see someone else already did one and got a couple answers. this was invaluable when I was new.


To the devs, I think this is a really important point - removing public replies to PCs means more PCs, as others will come and ask the same, when they may not have had they read an earlier reply. And people who may just casually scan Trade lose out on passively learning prices that way, too.

 

+1 to going back to public replies to PCs. 

Edited by Calan
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Maybe its different on other servers but from my experience on Cadence I think the speed at which Trade Chat moved was fine.

 

While the new changes regarding price checking does clean up the chat log a little, it does open the door to wrong (intentional or not) qoutes being given. I've already PCd items in trade since these changes came in and seen hugely, even half other quotes prices come back privately (some of which were wanted topurchase at the lower price)

 

I also found it interesting just watching other people run price checks, if I wanted to know the cost of something I might not need to ask because someone else already had an hour ago.

 

 

Edited by HawkHawk
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2 hours ago, Atonewell said:

PCs should stay public.

+1

+2

+3

+4

+5

+6

easy to learn

 

easy to lookup pricing 2-3-5-5000 months ago with logs

c'mon.. stop the nonsense

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I have not seen any PC responses in Trade chat that I consider as spamming. I would sooner see a discussion on prices, where relevant, than seeing the same WTB/WTS announcement every 30 minutes.

 

The Trade channel, in my opinion, isn't that hyper that people miss merchant advertisements amongst the discussions about price. Smart marketeers would wait until any discussion was complete anyway.

 

What is the issue that warranted the new rule? Maybe more moderation of the channel is required as opposed to a ban on public PC's?

 

Edited by Araken
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+1 to allowing PC to stay public.

 

I have corrected ridiculous low/high replies in Trade too many times as well as been EXTREMELY wrong myself with my own PC replies (thankfully they were corrected by some smarter individuals) to believe that people will not be taken advantage of with the new mandatory @ rule.
It was never okay for people to spam beforehand as discussing in Trade was never allowed in the first place - it was just not regulated properly by the moderators - meaning it was a staff issue and not a rule issue.

 

Keep Trade regulated with proper moderation - Keep the price checks and trade communication in the public for all to see - keep the economy healthy.

 

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TY Gingeko for making this post.

Ive been thinking of doing it myself since this ridiculously rule came in place.

This cant be very well thought-out, and it wont think of the players at all.

As you all already said its very easy to give very wrong pc by using @ name

and no one can tell the person asking how very wrong it is :( 

If it is a Pc for selling, then the person can find out when making his WTS  post how wrong it is. 

But if it is a WTB then the person might not know untill he overpayed alot for stuff :(

We seen player left game for much smaller reson then loosing money,

remember you that make the rules, our money ingame comes from real world money

and many of us, cant spend them however.

If you really need to get PC outof trade chat, then make a seperate PC-tab that dont need to be supervised by CM.

Those that dont like to stay and read that tab, can just as easy as they pressed it to read, press another tab and leave.

I really hope you rethink this new rule, before people get scammed and you end up with alot of new bad reveiw on steam.

We want to keep our player ingame not loose them couse of a silly rule  :( 

 

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I mean, are people bickering about a PC in trade chat annoying? yes, they are.
Did hat happen often? not really, i'm in trade chat a lot, and that happened less than once a day.
Is it the end of the world when it happens? Not really, we usually get more people spamming "pls stop / move this discussion to freedom" than the actual spam caused by the bickering, in most cases

It's just obvious that different people with different ideas about a price might want a place to discuss that, and it's counterintuitive to move to another, separate chat to continue the discussion, and literally never happens.
I tried that once, writing "Ok, so let's continue discussing the price of "***" here, in GL Freedom, and it just kinda felt awkward and out of place, most people didn't follow.

It's also good to notice that the game is still alive enough that people are having a discussion about something like that,
As several people already pointed out, trying to censor it off entirely just makes no sense and is only going to make things worse and exploiting market easier.

We basically just have a few decent solutions.
- Remove PC from trade and move it to Freedom GL by default 
- Remove PC from trade and move it to a specific PC channel
- Put things back as they were, have a bit of tolerance for some different opinions and answers about a PC; and only intervene when things go out of hand or become long discussions that look more like a fight than an actual interest on determining the price of something. Noobs can learn from that, and even from the discussions, and we'll just deal with it if some "advertisements" get pushed back a little, you can always post them 30mins later, there's no need to lose our minds about that.




 

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Current:

Quote

       PC - Price Check, used when you are not sure on the cost of an item or service. When replying to a PC, please use the following @ command



    Use the @[Players name], or PM, when you are trying to talk to a player instead of using PC or any of the other lines above. This keeps the Trade Chat clear of the private conversations or deals that are being made. Doing this allows others to see other posts in the trade chat, that were posted before and do not pertain to the current listing.
 

 

 

 

 Would a change to the Trade Chat Etiquette similar to this help?

Quote

           PC - Price Check, used when you are not sure on the cost of an item or service. When replying to a PC, respond only with a brief message. Do not use this command for discussions.



        Use the @[Players name], or PM, when you are trying to talk to a player instead of using PC or any of the other lines above. This keeps the Trade Chat clear of the private conversations or deals that are being made. Doing this allows others to see other posts in the trade chat, that were posted before and do not pertain to the current listing. Using PC to respond to a Price Check is still allowed.
 

 


        Thank you all for the feedback!

Edited by Nicrolis
formatting! yay \o/ and less use of the word "reply"
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2 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

  PC - Price Check, used when you are not sure on the cost of an item or service. When replying to a PC, please use the following @ command



    Use the @[Players name], or PM, when you are trying to talk to a player instead of using PC or any of the other lines above. This keeps the Trade Chat clear of the private conversations or deals that are being made. Doing this allows others to see other posts in the trade chat, that were posted before and do not pertain to the current listing.

 

2 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

 Would a change to the Trade Chat Etiquette similar to this help?

 

2 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

PC - Price Check, used when you are not sure on the cost of an item or service. When replying to a PC, respond only with a brief message. Do not use this command for discussions.



        Use the @[Players name], or PM, when you are trying to talk to a player instead of using PC or any of the other lines above. This keeps the Trade Chat clear of the private conversations or deals that are being made. Doing this allows others to see other posts in the trade chat, that were posted before and do not pertain to the current listing. Using PC to respond to a Price Check is still allowed.

 

yes If you dont want to make a new tab for PC, that dont need to be moderated then this:

PC - Price Check, used when you are not sure on the cost of an item or service. When replying to a PC, respond only with a brief message. Do not use this command for discussions.

will help us all  

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2 hours ago, Nicrolis said:

 

Current:

 

 

 Would a change to the Trade Chat Etiquette similar to this help?


        Thank you all for the feedback!

I do like this change.

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