eldarian

Name and Shame - Liberton

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hello,

 

Liberton is a known thief confirmed by GM intervention when I had reported him possibly stealing 5 rare forges, 1 supreme forge, 1 rare smelter, like 6+ other rare items and 100s of items that were inside the forges. He managed to enter a building that based off the perms he should not have had access to which forced me to redo the entire building to make sure future issues like this did not happen.

 

he left the wagon he was using on my deed, the owner of this wagon is Telfor which means he either stole the wagon as well or that is one of his alts. He currently resides on exodus.

 

I recruited him when he asked if I had open space on my deed because he claims his mayor quit playing the game. within 4 hours after I recruited him he managed to steal all the items above and move them back to exodus server. 

 

I wanted the community to be aware of players like this, so that others do not have to go through the torment of syphoning through event logs and chat logs just to find stolen property because of a single individual ruining the game for them. I would not be surprised if this player doesn't do other things that are abusive to the community and its growth.

 

If you know who this player is and know what his other accounts are that are associated with him, please post them here so the community can know who to avoid in the future. Thank you for your time.

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Jisses why do ppl do this, destroy game for other ppls not good at all...

very sorry to hear this happend to u....

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I'm sorry this happened to you, and I'd like to thank you for sharing your story in the hopes of helping others.

The items that have been stolen may end up for sale, so if potential items of yours pop up on the forums you could ask the buyers to check the signature. That way you could narrow down some of the forum alts they're using, and hopefully at least avoid doing business with them.

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sorry to hear that,

always try making more roles, and try them out with an alt, start them out as serfs 😜

Edited by Benalish

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8 minutes ago, Benalish said:

sorry to hear that,

always try making more roles, and try them out with an alt, start them out as serfs 😜

perms where fine it was just a wierd bug i used archways with gates and i split a building in half using chain fences the house allowed anyone to enter, but the gate to the area was locked so noone could enter, yet i didnt know that it was still letting people walk through it, i just assumed gate perms would block traffic going into that part of the building and well i was wrong i guess....lol so rebuilding the entire workshop to have 2 different buildings one for common smithing and the other for all the rare smithing stuff.

 

gm told me something about xanadu lag allowing them possibly to enter the area...idk what that had to do with it tho tbh.

Edited by eldarian

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7 minutes ago, eldarian said:

perms where fine it was just a wierd bug i used archways with gates and i split a building in half using chain fences the house allowed anyone to enter, but the gate to the area was locked so noone could enter, yet i didnt know that it was still letting people walk through it, i just assumed gate perms would block traffic going into that part of the building and well i was wrong i guess....lol so rebuilding the entire workshop to have 2 different buildings one for common smithing and the other for all the rare smithing stuff.

 

gm told me something about xanadu lag allowing them possibly to enter the area...idk what that had to do with it tho tbh.

And GMs aren't willing to do something about theft?

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1 minute ago, Madnath said:

And GMs aren't willing to do something about theft?

they recovered the items not sure if all of them, they have them in a gm storage, im rebuilding the building once im done they will return my items tonight or tommorrow.

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He also went by Eloree or at least he did -on11/16/20 when he was kick out of our alliance on Xanadu when he stole from one of our members.

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This is why players are reluctant in a lot of cases to take on villagers.

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while it sucks and he's scummy and blah blah blah

i feel like making public threads intending to publicize drama and specifically 'shun' people out of the community are just a recipe for disaster

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I feel it perfectly the right thing in this case. In particular as this thread seems to reveal that he did similar things to others already. A person so much lacking any decency as a fraud and thief should be made known. 

 

I fail to see the loss when somebody like this is "shunned out of the community". I fail to see any damage from it. Rather the fact that he did such repeatedly should make the GM think about a permaban for him and his alts.

 

Stealing while being villager or alliance member should not be treated differently from ordinary scam and fraud.

Edited by Ekcin
typo
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3 hours ago, RainRain said:


i feel like making public threads intending to publicize drama and specifically 'shun' people out of the community are just a recipe for disaster

 

By not shunning them we actually hurt the community in the long run.

The reality is in every MMO out there you'll see toxic people that have no other agenda than to steal, lie, cheat and generally ###### up other people's gameplay or lives. They don't play for fun. They play to destroy and exploit.

 

It's psychotic, it's what they get off to, it's what gives them pleasure. Sad little men in their sad little basements.

 

Wurm online measures a player's reputation on a heavier scale than other mmos where you can spam your alts easily and change your name 100 times. 

 

It's good to know what names to look out for in the long run just so you can avoid them.

 

While I agree name/shame can backfire, it's good we can see what players should be avoided. And if indeed someone launches false accusations, the defender can always ask the accuser to retract the statement if no evidence is provided.

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14 hours ago, Katrat said:

This is why players are reluctant in a lot of cases to take on villagers.

Yea its not fun to try play a good game with ppl if u dont trust them, but u need to start somewhere, and he is a example and one that makes this so harder to do areas like this.

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19 hours ago, elentari said:

 

By not shunning them we actually hurt the community in the long run.

The reality is in every MMO out there you'll see toxic people that have no other agenda than to steal, lie, cheat and generally ###### up other people's gameplay or lives. They don't play for fun. They play to destroy and exploit.

 

It's psychotic, it's what they get off to, it's what gives them pleasure. Sad little men in their sad little basements.

 

Wurm online measures a player's reputation on a heavier scale than other mmos where you can spam your alts easily and change your name 100 times. 

 

It's good to know what names to look out for in the long run just so you can avoid them.

 

While I agree name/shame can backfire, it's good we can see what players should be avoided. And if indeed someone launches false accusations, the defender can always ask the accuser to retract the statement if no evidence is provided.



the reason shunning isn't a great idea is because of the inevitable drama it'll bring as well as the type of culture it spreads on a server: people hardly agree on what is/isn't scummy behavior, people lie (not saying op is, infact it seems they arent), people miscontrue situations in search of community support, and the only reason any of it works is because we've set up a culture where shunning someone is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

it has already, and will continue to cause issues in the community. it's why the various communities that exist in this game are so hard to penetrate as an outsider (especially on the pvp side) and integrate with. it's an antiquated and frankly barbaric practice that just pits people against each other

yes, there's bad actors who literally get off to pissing others off; hand them off to moderators, deal with issues, and if you want you can even advise others you see take up that player about their history, but this public naming and shaming bull is just a stone's throw away from actual harrassment, and i certainly don't trust the general maturity of this community to not push it any further (infact, it's already happened several times before lol)

I think you underestimate how much damage people doing this same thing can do in other games also, i don't think wurm is any special. it also assumes that this person 100% is a through-and-through shitter who has nothing in mind but causing suffering in others; it's not always the case, it can be extremely complex, and people involved can bring it to the forums to try and stir more problems where they don't need to be

 

 

21 hours ago, Ekcin said:

I feel it perfectly the right thing in this case. In particular as this thread seems to reveal that he did similar things to others already. A person so much lacking any decency as a fraud and thief should be made known. 

 

I fail to see the loss when somebody like this is "shunned out of the community". I fail to see any damage from it. Rather the fact that he did such repeatedly should make the GM think about a permaban for him and his alts.

 

Stealing while being villager or alliance member should not be treated differently from ordinary scam and fraud.


again, my issue isn't with this exact case as much as encouraging the practice of 'shunning' at all; people are going to abuse it and nothing good is going to come from this but drama; it's not like anyone who reads this thread that wasn't already familiar with the situation is going to remember the guy's name in a month from now. the entire idea of this sort of practice just makes for a bad environment to be in

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Edit: second thought about engaging in this topic.

Edited by Calan
second thought about engaging in this topic.

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First of all: This is mainly about PvE, not PvP. In PvP, there are other means possible such as just killing the perpetrator, destroying his houses, taking his ships, carts, everything. In fact, in PvE, conflicts out of misdemeanor last longer, and are often more bitter than in PvP. That has also to do with the ways smaller PvP communities. They do not need forum publicity as word easily spreads even over faction and kingdom boundaries, and a fraud and abuser does not have many places to go to.

 

Of course ostracizing other players is a serious thing, and should not be started or attempted easily. Public accusations have a potential to either turn toxic when accusing innocents (or partially innocents), or backfire, or both. That is why they should not be started recklessly. In worst case they will damage both the reputations of plaintiff and defendant, and most cases of conflicts in PvE are ambiguous. Even if reported as unbiased as possible there may be inaccuracies and circumstances not revealed showing an offender not that bad and the accuser not that shinily innocent. I suffered protracted issues with a toxic neighbour, and though I mostly tried to avoid escalation (e.g. would never name the player other than to already informed friends and bystanders) I cannot say that I always acted in full wisdom or without any malice. So it is better to leave the case closed and be happy that it is over. I reckon that this is the case in most conflicts in PvE.

 

But I fail to see that any of these precautions do apply to the actual case. The violations, at least a considerable part thereof, have obviously been confirmed by the GM team, and there is serious suspicion that there is more. The player in question has created 9 settlements on Xanadu (only there in Wurm) since July 2020, and disbanded each of them within between 2 days and 2 hours. He appeared out of the blue end of June, 2020 on Exodus offering a supreme forge in trade chat. Some days later he offered a rare ropetool and a rare forge. Personally I suspect a banned character returning because that is no pattern of just a noob.

 

Making such a perpetrator public is the only way to protect others from his abusive behaviour. And I fail to see the damage of doing so. This is no general call for "shunning". On contrary. This instrument of publicly accusing must be used with utter restraint.

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1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

First of all: This is mainly about PvE, not PvP. In PvP, there are other means possible such as just killing the perpetrator, destroying his houses, taking his ships, carts, everything. In fact, in PvE, conflicts out of misdemeanor last longer, and are often more bitter than in PvP. That has also to do with the ways smaller PvP communities. They do not need forum publicity as word easily spreads even over faction and kingdom boundaries, and a fraud and abuser does not have many places to go to.

 

Of course ostracizing other players is a serious thing, and should not be started or attempted easily. Public accusations have a potential to either turn toxic when accusing innocents (or partially innocents), or backfire, or both. That is why they should not be started recklessly. In worst case they will damage both the reputations of plaintiff and defendant, and most cases of conflicts in PvE are ambiguous. Even if reported as unbiased as possible there may be inaccuracies and circumstances not revealed showing an offender not that bad and the accuser not that shinily innocent. I suffered protracted issues with a toxic neighbour, and though I mostly tried to avoid escalation (e.g. would never name the player other than to already informed friends and bystanders) I cannot say that I always acted in full wisdom or without any malice. So it is better to leave the case closed and be happy that it is over. I reckon that this is the case in most conflicts in PvE.

 

But I fail to see that any of these precautions do apply to the actual case. The violations, at least a considerable part thereof, have obviously been confirmed by the GM team, and there is serious suspicion that there is more. The player in question has created 9 settlements on Xanadu (only there in Wurm) since July 2020, and disbanded each of them within between 2 days and 2 hours. He appeared out of the blue end of June, 2020 on Exodus offering a supreme forge in trade chat. Some days later he offered a rare ropetool and a rare forge. Personally I suspect a banned character returning because that is no pattern of just a noob.

 

Making such a perpetrator public is the only way to protect others from his abusive behaviour. And I fail to see the damage of doing so. This is no general call for "shunning". On contrary. This instrument of publicly accusing must be used with utter restraint.


you completely missed the point of me talking about pvp: the actual actions and merit, true or not, don't matter; the problem is the culture it cultivates in a community where people are more likely to bring drama up in public for the sake of removing people they dislike from a community. also, word does not 'spread' easily over kingdom boundaries at all lol, there's tons of miscommunications and misrepresentations of people because of how often people bring up drama to the public in an effort to put another person in the community in a bad light, all enabled because of this exact type of culture

 

 

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

 

Of course ostracizing other players is a serious thing, and should not be started or attempted easily. Public accusations have a potential to either turn toxic when accusing innocents (or partially innocents), or backfire, or both. That is why they should not be started recklessly. In worst case they will damage both the reputations of plaintiff and defendant, and most cases of conflicts in PvE are ambiguous. Even if reported as unbiased as possible there may be inaccuracies and circumstances not revealed showing an offender not that bad and the accuser not that shinily innocent. I suffered protracted issues with a toxic neighbour, and though I mostly tried to avoid escalation (e.g. would never name the player other than to already informed friends and bystanders) I cannot say that I always acted in full wisdom or without any malice. So it is better to leave the case closed and be happy that it is over. I reckon that this is the case in most conflicts in PvE.

 


it is a very serious thing, which is why such situations should be primarily handled by a 3rd party who resolves the issue for them - aka GM's. this exact situation is why im saying encouraging this sort of behavior is silly. this is the very reason almost every public forum, subreddit, discord server and so forth has the "don't try to name and shame people"- because it stems from people being emotional, or leads to people misrepresenting others in an effort to rally the community against a person, or the several billion other shitty things that can happen if you create a culture around witch hunts

 

 

1 hour ago, Ekcin said:

But I fail to see that any of these precautions do apply to the actual case. The violations, at least a considerable part thereof, have obviously been confirmed by the GM team, and there is serious suspicion that there is more. The player in question has created 9 settlements on Xanadu (only there in Wurm) since July 2020, and disbanded each of them within between 2 days and 2 hours. He appeared out of the blue end of June, 2020 on Exodus offering a supreme forge in trade chat. Some days later he offered a rare ropetool and a rare forge. Personally I suspect a banned character returning because that is no pattern of just a noob.

 

Making such a perpetrator public is the only way to protect others from his abusive behaviour. And I fail to see the damage of doing so. This is no general call for "shunning". On contrary. This instrument of publicly accusing must be used with utter restraint.


again, this isn't about this specific person or situation, it's about the idea that if we actively participate in these types of threads, we're giving a green light for anyone to just make another in whatever situation they feel is appropriate. that, on its own, is inevitably going to lead to more drama, more bad situations like the ones you described earlier, and in general should just be something avoided. it doesn't matter if it can possibly help some random person who might recognize the name a month down the line ,especially if as you're implying it's just someone who's been banned on an alt, where they can just do it again lol

this sort of stuff should be handled by gm's alone and encouraging witch hunting is a recipe for disaster

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To start with:

This is not the place to discuss if naming and shaming is the right thing to do or not. So please move that discussion to another topic.

As for the starting post: I seem to remember something similar happened a while ago at the Lunar Order Academy. Knowing some players who were around at that time, I'll ask around as that may as well show the name of a possible alt and / or original player name.

 

 

Thorin :) 

Edited by Thorinoakshield
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5 hours ago, Thorinoakshield said:

To start with:

This is not the place to discuss if naming and shaming is the right thing to do or not. So please move that discussion to another topic.

As for the starting post: I seem to remember something similar happened a while ago at the Lunar Order Academy. Knowing some players who were around at that time, I'll ask around as that may as well show the name of a possible alt and / or original player name.

 

 

Thorin :) 

 

Yes, I can confirm that, in our December News post, COINCIDENTALLY, Liberton had joined the Lunar Order Academy around the same time that I was forced to make a public post warning about the risk of theft, due to an enchanted item being reported stolen (mortar and pestle I think).

 

Previously, we had problems with a member of our alliance named Aeliar who was accused of stealing rare forges from another alliance member. Other players I know are saying that Aeliar and Liberton are both alts of the same player, in which case this person has tried to take advantage of us twice now.

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Nice to see the GMs actually help someone recover from a theft.

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