azuleslight

How are everyone rifts going?

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Had a very interesting rift experience on harmony this AM. I thought it was like any other...and it had gone like any other really. Up until the WM.....
adolescent WM
Me:
71.08 FS 
aggressive: 37.7
44.95 longswords

80ql Studded armor

dual wield swords:
Longsword: 66.1 ql woa 75, LT 72, monster deminse, coc 60

Longsword: nim 54, LT 48, coc 76
human skull shoulder pad x1

never had any issues at rifts or with WM even with smaller groups. this group was 38 and about 15-20 ppl were 70+ FS



 

Spoiler

[06:56:12] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[06:56:16] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[06:56:20] You miss with the longsword.

[06:56:24] You miss with the longsword.

[06:57:50] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[06:57:54] You miss with the longsword.

[06:58:02] You miss with the longsword.

[06:58:06] You miss with the longsword.

[06:58:10] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[06:58:17] You safely parry with your longsword.

[06:58:17] You need to get into the fight more first.

[06:58:18] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[06:58:19] You try to focus.

[06:58:23] You balance your feet and your soul.

[06:58:23] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[06:58:26] You miss with the longsword.

[06:58:27] You try to focus.

[06:58:34] You miss with the longsword.

[06:58:35] You are not attacking anyone.

everyone.

[06:58:52] You are not focused on combat.

[06:59:16] You try to cut aged Ice turret.

[06:59:20] You pierce aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[06:59:24] You pierce aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[06:59:28] You miss with the longsword.

[06:59:32] You cut aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[06:59:36] Your attack glances off aged Ice turret's armour.

[06:59:40] You cut aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[06:59:44] You miss with the longsword.

[06:59:47] You miss with the longsword.

[06:59:48] You cut aged Ice turret extremely hard in the upper body and hurt it.

[06:59:52] You miss with the longsword.

[06:59:56] You cut aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[07:00:00] You pierce aged Ice turret extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[07:00:04] Your attack glances off aged Ice turret's armour.

[07:00:29] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:00:33] You miss with the longsword.

[07:00:37] You miss with the longsword.

[07:00:41] You need to get into the fight more first.

[07:00:41] You miss with the longsword.

[07:00:45] You miss with the longsword.

[07:00:49] You need to get into the fight more first.

[07:00:54] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:01:00] You miss with the longsword.

[07:01:04] You miss with the longsword.

[07:01:07] You try to focus.

[07:01:08] You miss with the longsword.

[07:01:09] You try to focus.

[07:01:12] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:01:16] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:01:20] You miss with the longsword.

[07:01:27] You try to focus.

[07:01:30] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:02:55] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:03:00] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:03:03] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:03:07] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:11] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:15] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:03:19] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:23] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:27] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:28] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:31] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:35] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:03:39] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:47] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:03:55] You miss with the longsword.

[07:03:55] You try to focus.

[07:03:59] You balance your feet and your soul.

[07:03:59] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:00] You try to focus.

[07:04:04] You are now focused on the enemy and its every move.

[07:04:06] You try to focus.

[07:04:10] You fail to reach a higher degree of focus.

[07:04:10] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:10] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:13] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:14] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:19] You try to focus.

[07:04:19] Gumbertios casts Drain Health on adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:04:23] You feel lightning inside, quickening your reflexes.

[07:04:23] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:26] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:30] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:34] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:34] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:38] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:42] You miss with the longsword.

[07:04:56] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:04:58] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:05:07] You are now focused on the enemy and its every move.

[07:05:11] You balance your feet and your soul.

[07:05:11] You try to cut adolescent champion rift jackal.

[07:05:15] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:26] You try to cut adolescent champion rift jackal.

[07:05:30] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:33] You try to focus.

[07:05:37] You are now focused on the enemy and its every move.

[07:05:37] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:38] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:38] You try to focus.

[07:05:42] You feel lightning inside, quickening your reflexes.

[07:05:42] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:42] You try to focus.

[07:05:46] Your consciousness is lifted to a higher level, making you very attentive.

[07:05:46] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:50] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:51] Your attack glances off adolescent champion rift jackal's armour.

[07:05:54] You miss with the longsword.

[07:05:58] You cut adolescent champion rift jackal extremely hard in the left hand and hurt it.

[07:06:02] You cut adolescent champion rift jackal extremely hard in the left thigh and hurt it.

[07:06:06] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:09] You try to focus.

[07:06:13] You fail to reach a higher degree of focus.

[07:06:13] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:13] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:13] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:16] You try to focus.

[07:06:20] You fail to reach a higher degree of focus.

[07:06:20] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:21] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:25] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:29] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:33] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:35] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:37] You cut adolescent champion rift jackal extremely hard in the left hand and hurt it.

[07:06:41] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:45] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:49] You pierce adolescent champion rift jackal extremely hard in the left thigh and hurt it.

[07:06:53] Your attack glances off adolescent champion rift jackal's armour.

[07:06:57] You miss with the longsword.

[07:06:57] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:00] You try to focus.

[07:07:04] You fail to reach a higher degree of focus.

[07:07:04] Your attack glances off adolescent champion rift jackal's armour.

[07:07:05] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:09] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:13] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:16] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:19] Your attack glances off adolescent champion rift jackal's armour.

[07:07:20] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:24] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:28] You cut adolescent champion rift jackal extremely hard in the chest and hurt it.

[07:07:32] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:36] You miss with the longsword.

[07:07:40] Your attack glances off adolescent champion rift jackal's armour.

[07:07:41] You feel lightning inside, quickening your reflexes.

[07:07:42] You easily parry with your longsword.

[07:08:03] You are now focused on the enemy and its every move.

[07:08:24] You balance your feet and your soul.

[07:08:46] You are not focused on combat.

[07:08:50] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:08:54] You miss with the longsword.

[07:14:39] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:14:39] Kvinto regains his bearings.

[07:14:41] Adolescent rift warmaster casts Ice Pillar.

[07:14:43] You miss with the longsword.

[07:14:43] You make a bad move, making you an easy target.

[07:15:31] You try to cut adolescent rift warmaster.

[07:15:35] You miss with the longsword.

[07:15:39] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:15:39] You need to get into the fight more first.

[07:15:43] You miss with the longsword.

[07:15:55] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:15:55] You need to get into the fight more first.

[07:15:56] Your attack glances off adolescent rift warmaster's armour.

[07:15:58] You try to focus.

[07:16:02] You balance your feet and your soul.

[07:16:02] You miss with the longsword.

[07:16:03] You miss with the longsword.

[07:16:03] You try to focus.

[07:16:07] You are now focused on the enemy and its every move.

[07:16:07] You miss with the longsword.

[07:16:08] You try to focus.

[07:16:12] You feel lightning inside, quickening your reflexes.

[07:16:13] You try to focus.

[07:16:17] Your consciousness is lifted to a higher level, making you very attentive.

[07:16:17] Adolescent rift warmaster barely evades the blow to the left hand.

[07:16:18] You miss with the longsword.

[07:16:18] You miss with the longsword.

[07:16:19] Volladol mauls adolescent rift warmaster extremely hard in the left eye and slaps it.

[07:16:22] Weeebiee cuts adolescent rift warmaster deadly hard in the head and slaps it.

[07:16:22] You miss with the longsword.

if you dont want to read 167 misses,  103 glances , 0 hits....i say again 0 hits in 30 minutes of fighting. focus was at 5 for at least half the fight

Is this the experience of most rifters at this skill level?
the new fight ui shows the WM as green....im guessing thats wrong...

Edited by azuleslight

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I would assume a 2-hand weapon (huge axes are popular) would hit more against a target of that caliber, the same as uniques, than 2 longswords.

That said, i miss a fair amount even with fighting in the mid 90's, aggressive 90 and huge axe in the mid 80's, when fighting the warmaster.

 

Also, the new fighting ui is not live yet. Those icons are just place holders as ive understood.

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Well dual weilding is awful and I suggest /ignore anyone who says otherwise because that is an awful loadout.

But otherwise it's incredible you got dumpstered that hard by RNG, maybe targetting bugged out somehow

 

You also have stuff regarding rift jackals and turrets in there so it's hard to get a total idea of what exactly went down

Edited by Madnath
  • Like 1

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I always heard that dual wielding is useless. I never tried it as I considered it more useful to have a shield for blocking and shield bashing. Also, 1 hand weapons are effective only against beasts and wabbits (and turrets), not against ogres, and very limitedly against the warmaster. I use my sickle for round 1 and 2, and begin of 3 before ogres appear, then switch to huge axe.

 

So forget offhand weapon, it rarely hits even against cows :) .  The warmaster has high CR, you should take the Nim weapon in right hand, woa on a weapon is rubbish as it does not raise swing timer or anything to my knowledge.

 

 

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agreed to 2 hand, but what is the advantage at 1h?

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Shields always work well with 1 handers to block but the reality is for DPS you will always go for two handers. Huge axes and 2h swords are still the go to weapons for best overall dps.

 

You mentioned a lot of misses but you didn't factor in some other variables such as : Footing, was it good or bad? Your CR takes a hit if you're lower than a creature.

What about distance? 

What about manually targeting a certain area? Some people go for the head but the % to hit is way lower there. 

Also from your log I can see you tried a lot to focus, which is a wise move but I do wonder, what did your stamina look like mid fight? At 0 stam again you are less efficient in combat. 

 

Skill up your Longsword and huge axe skill and you should be fine. It's normal to get a lot of misses. Even at 90+ skills you will get a lot of misses against the warmaster. It's made to be difficult and be tackled by at least 10 players. 

Also I'd recommend using nimbleness not woa on your weapons. Hitting with higher accuracy is better than hitting more often but will lower % to hit. My two cents. 

 

As for dual wielding, read the combat guide about how it works. Somewhere around for the first 20 seconds in combat, your 2nd weapon doesn't even begin to swing, so you're basically holding dead weight in your offhand for a long time before you even begin to attack with the other wep. 

 

Haxe for dps. Shield + LS for defence. Bow for fun. That's all you need. 

Edited by elentari
  • Like 1

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4 hours ago, Madnath said:

But otherwise it's incredible you got dumpstered that hard by RNG, maybe targetting bugged out somehow

yeah i was mortified, i have gone 2-h huge axe with VNM ill never glance again. i also have another Huge axe with the same power LT so i can swap and not have to worry about healing i think that will be the best combo for me both with better casts on them other than dmg casts lol nim and or WoA with demise on both 1 for WM type on poison and One for normal mobs on LT

 

 

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yeah I would never recommend dual wielding (if you're caring about results) or using longswords. If you're dead set on a one hand weapon, I'd use a sickle (with high nimbleness) or a medium axe (nimbleness or WoA, nimb better for high CR mobs). Otherwise, I'd switch to a staff or a huge axe. 

 

Like other people have commented, venom helps a lot for mobs with actual armor. 

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Just curious why so many of you seem to prefer huge axe against staff?

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1 hour ago, Bloodreina said:

Just curious why so many of you seem to prefer huge axe against staff?

old meta, people don't understand that "high number hit" doesn't equal a better long term result.

 

2 hours ago, elentari said:

Huge axes and 2h swords are still the go to weapons for best overall dps.

Is probably the most incredibly wrong thing I've read in this thread.

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This might be unrelated but I was having issues damaging the warmaster specifically myself (90 fs, 60 body strength, 75 staff skill...). The odd thing was that I would HIT the warmaster with the staff but would only get a damage message from the flaming aura enchant, and only that wound would appear. 

 

Here's a relevant section of my combat log: 

 

[11:38:23] You miss with the staff.
[11:38:24] Mature fierce rift warmaster begins heating the surrounding area.
[11:38:27] Annykin mauls mature fierce rift warmaster extremely hard in the stomach and slaps it.
[11:38:27] Merfin cuts mature fierce rift warmaster extremely hard in the right thigh and slaps it.
[11:38:27] Your attack glances off mature fierce rift warmaster's armour.
[11:38:30] Alexeyst cuts mature fierce rift warmaster deadly hard in the left underarm and slaps it.
[11:38:31] Your weapon burns mature fierce rift warmaster.
[11:38:32] Merfin cuts mature fierce rift warmaster deadly hard in the left thigh and slaps it.
[11:38:33] Dillyan mauls mature fierce rift warmaster extremely hard in the lower back and slaps it.
[11:38:35] You miss with the staff.

 

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iirc thats from when you've hit them for under 0.4 dmg or so and it didnt register as a hit, they removed that requirement for fb/fa etc so they work on uniques and stuff but warmaster gets super tanky with his oakshell

  • Like 1

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9 hours ago, Madnath said:

Well dual weilding is awful and I suggest /ignore anyone who says otherwise because that is an awful loadout.

But otherwise it's incredible you got dumpstered that hard by RNG, maybe targetting bugged out somehow

 

You also have stuff regarding rift jackals and turrets in there so it's hard to get a total idea of what exactly went down



dual wielding has a better damage output than 2h weapons for extended combats (depending on the weapon type ofc)

the problem with dual wielding is that it takes 20 seconds for it to ramp up since it doesn't 'activate' until round 2 of combat

 

 

3 hours ago, Madnath said:

old meta, people don't understand that "high number hit" doesn't equal a better long term result.

 

Is probably the most incredibly wrong thing I've read in this thread.


huge axes and staves still have extremely similar dps, but the 2h sword aspect is definitely very wrong

the best dps in the game is... aside from artis
1. dual addy sickles on agg/normal stance (theres no reason to be normal stance tho, and agg will proc some bonus damage every round)

2. addy staff with 100 botd + agg stance
3. glimmer huge axe with 100 woa/botd + agg stance

going off memory, dual wielding kicks in after round 2 and each offhand weapon swing has around a 50% chance to actually swing, but otherwise swings at normal pace. i'm simplifying this down to +50% damage after 20 seconds, but due to how minimum damage works on mobs this might not be viable for unique hunting and similar (idk, it might or might not be lol)
sickles deal 6 dmg on a 3s timer, so 2dps. addy ups this to 2.2 dps, dual wield up to 3.3 dps.

axes are 12 damage on a 6s timer, so 2.0 dps. woa is -.5 at 100, agg is -10% for -.6, and glimmer is also -0.6; im not sure how multiplicative attack speed decreases work in this game but i'm gonna assume it's additional (if its multiplicative it's SLIGHTLY lower than this), for a total attack speed of (6-1.7=)4.3 aka 2.79 dps. addy math is aspeed 4.9 with 13.2 dmg or 2.69dps

staff is 8 dmg on 4 speed, so 2.0 dps. woa+agg downs their attack speed to 3.1 and addy up to 8.8 so around 2.83 dps. technically you could go glimmer to drop down to 3.0 aspeed (minimum aspeed) but addy is better damage overall

funfact: the timer for dual wielding doesnt care about you actually having it in hand. you can spend the first 2 rounds of combat using a 1h+shield and then swap to dual wielding and it willl let you immediately start attacking with offhand

Edited by RainRain
  • Like 2

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5 hours ago, RainRain said:


staff is 8 dmg on 4 speed, so 2.0 dps. woa+agg downs their attack speed to 3.1 and addy up to 8.8 so around 2.83 dps. technically you could go glimmer to drop down to 3.0 aspeed (minimum aspeed) but addy is better damage overall
 


I was wondering about glimmersteel staves. Considering that weapon skill lowers the swing timer too (1% per 10 skill), wouldn't that make glimmersteel a very bad choice even at lower skills? I wonder how parent skills come into play. Do they also add to decreasing swing timers? If so, huge axes should beat staves quite handily upon reaching a high combined level in axe+huge axe. Taking decreased swing timer from weapon skill into account, would that make botd a questionable choice of enchant?

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I'am using glimmersteel staff and it hits very often. Parry is also nice.

 

But after @RainRainpost I'am gonna try adamantine one.

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weapon skill is a flat swing speed reduction, 0.005s per point, or 0.5s at 100 compared to 1. iirc, it's a penalty that gets reduced from level, so a 3s swing weapon is 3.5s swing timer at 1 skill, 6s swing timer is 6.5s at 1 skill, down to 3 and 6s at 100 skill

parent skills are a extremely small bonus to the skill being used for parrying checks and such, isn't worth bothering with.

lower swing speeds at same dps is much more powerful than it looks on numbers, especially against things that can parry/block/dodge (trolls/uniques/pvp for first 2, all mobs can dodge, i think rift mobs parry too but not sure).

glimmer staff hits the 3s swing cap with woa+agg, and addy has 60% dr vs 40% for glimmer so not having to imp as often is nicer, but personal preference.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
  • Like 3

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That would imply the wiki has wrong information: Swing timer is decreased by 1% for every 10 skill levels. Weapon QL also affects everything listed except swing timer and chance to parry.

Well, the fighting page does mention it needs  a "cleanup" right at the top, I guess.

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12 hours ago, RainRain said:

the best dps in the game is... aside from artis

1. dual addy sickles on agg/normal stance (theres no reason to be normal stance tho, and agg will proc some bonus damage every round)

2. addy staff with 100 botd + agg stance
3. glimmer huge axe with 100 woa/botd + agg stance

 

yeah I read about the details of dual weild in the sindusk thread, but I'm left mostly wondering in what circumstance you'd actaully want to bother. a reasonably strong account will dumpster mobs that aren't rift mobs and uniques before the round 2 starts, and the amount of skill you'd gain from a mob is the same. and if they both need to be addy or silver, it seems a weird amount of price to pay for a highly situational loadout that probs has its parry percent absolutely tanked. isn't there a flat CR nerf applied for dual weilding too? that was the last bit of info I could never verify

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47 minutes ago, Madnath said:

 

yeah I read about the details of dual weild in the sindusk thread, but I'm left mostly wondering in what circumstance you'd actaully want to bother. a reasonably strong account will dumpster mobs that aren't rift mobs and uniques before the round 2 starts, and the amount of skill you'd gain from a mob is the same. and if they both need to be addy or silver, it seems a weird amount of price to pay for a highly situational loadout that probs has its parry percent absolutely tanked. isn't there a flat CR nerf applied for dual weilding too? that was the last bit of info I could never verify


you can use dual large mauls for decent dps + parry rate too, even if they are both non-godmetal the dos should be higher than a godmetal 2h

 

parry rate with dual wield is better than 2h as well, as theres a chance your offhand will parry if your primary fails to parry, though obviously thats moot if we’re talking sickles/axes as they aren’t good at parrying.  That said if you are trying to be defensive you are gonna use a shield not dual weps lol

The math still holds up even if you compare the weapons to non-godmetal variants btw, in fact theres zero reason to use a huge axe vs dual sickles if all you care about is raw dps (on these long term fights of course, assuming the minimum damage threshold doesn’t mess up too much)

 

no flat CR penalty for dual wielding. The biggest downside is the 2 round delay, which you can bypass by using a different weapon/a shield on offhand initially and then equip the 2nd weapon after 20ish seconds

 

i just wanted to dispel the “dual wielding is literally trolling” meme. Its outclassed 100% in pvp, and in pve youre usually better off hunting with a 2h anyways, but there are definitely situations still where it can shine (mostly long term fights).

 

skill might also not necessarily be the same also- if you’re hitting a mob for over 50% of its hp in one blow you’re wasting skillgain (noticeable with haxes and artifacts) as skillgain is capped at 50% hp dmg

Edited by RainRain

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5 hours ago, Josso said:

That would imply the wiki has wrong information: Swing timer is decreased by 1% for every 10 skill levels. Weapon QL also affects everything listed except swing timer and chance to parry.

Well, the fighting page does mention it needs  a "cleanup" right at the top, I guess.

Doublepost because editing is a pain on mobile;

 

wiki isn’t wrong but it also isn’t right. Everyone starts with a small 10% or 5% penalty to their swing timer. I believe its 5%.
Higher skill you have reduces this penalty, down to 0 at 100 skill. So math does assume 100 wepskill, but it should be similar at 50 anyways, which the math also assumed since you also start with a -20% dmg penalty at 0 wepskill which is removed slowly until 50


 

rsit anyways: OR posted somwthing else and i didnt notice. My knowledge was that it was % based, might be wronf who knows. If its that huge, haxes will be better at high wepskill.

Edited by RainRain

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So, is there any consensus what's best weapon(s) setup against serious mobs (uniques, rift mobs, etc)?

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12 hours ago, Bloodreina said:

So, is there any consensus what's best weapon(s) setup against serious mobs (uniques, rift mobs, etc)?


silver staff > glimmer haxe

double silver sickle can be better than both if the minimum damage threshold isn't hit often, which i suspect it will be but am unsure

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15 hours ago, Madnath said:

yeah I read about the details of dual weild in the sindusk thread

 

Why isn't the wiki updated with sindusk's info though? It would dispel many myths and ideas people have about wurm combat.

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