Samool

Combat Overhaul Testing

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2 hours ago, Mclavin said:

I was hoping this WOULDN'T be a overhaul as i love wurm pvp combat but i welcome more visual feed back instead of text and the changes don't seem to be anything drastic away from what we know wurm combat involves so as I read some dissapointment from the otherside I'd just like to say there is a side that likes that part.

 

couldnt +1 this any harder

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After some testing I must say I'm pretty dissapointed in these changes so far. Was expecting a major overhaul with more interactive gameplay.


So far it seems like barely anything changed except for more visual indicators which are good. I'm not a pvp player so my feedback will be pve oriented with some new ideas.


I hoped for more dynamic pve combat but at current state nothing is really going to change in pve. Changing attacking sides and using 1-3 skills during a fight (with tougher enemies) doesn't really make killing faster or worth hussle.

 

Autofight seems to be working ok. Kinda looks like it's using moves and skills at random. In manual fight you can still do nothing and still efficiently kill stuff.
Sometimes autofight tries to use skills a bit to quickly and gives you message like this "[20:20:31] You cannot use another special move for 0 seconds." thus skipping the turn for using special skill.

 

Green/red skull icon doesn't really tell much about difficulty because fight is still too random. Hell scorpious or troll are shown as green at 90 skills/70 body stats. In scale set I can still get my ass kicked by fighting one or laugh at another because he did nothing.


Skills could get more love as well. Skill that reduces food/water is completely useless in pve. Low Rider description says "Does a little bit of everything" but what does that mean? I think there should be more classic skill effects similar to stun and CR reduction. Maybe making skills being useable only while targeting certain body parts should be changed? Like let us pick our set of skills from the list and put them on a skill bar and make them work differently depending on targeted body part. Higher fighting skill mixed with specific weapon skill would let you use these skills, so players will have to unlock them first.


For example attack that temporarily slows your target. If used while targeting lower parts, it will slow down movement, middle parts/hands - attack speed, top - blocks using skills maybe? More examples could be skills that utilize weapon enchantments with increased effect and some interesting outcome, guaranteeing/increasing critical strike chance, etc.
These ideas most likely won't help much at this point and they would mostly affect pvp, so I'm gonna leave it for people who know more about pvp.


Visual indicators are great, but please make them adjustable. Like the ring that shows from which side you are getting hit - make it movable, resizable, change opacity because we can barely see it. Add permanent, faint arrow which shows that you are being attacked by someone from that side. If you get hit, the arrow pulses like now, signaling that you got hit. 


Green/red text above bars informing about hits is just text taken out of combat log. It's probably usefull in pvp but I guess most freedomers will turn it off since it's not that important or even might be annoying for someone. I'd love to see some numbers instead. Regular numerical value like hit for 13,82. Next to it an icon indicating what damage type you dealt. If it's crit, make it bigger/easier to recognize. Maybe someone want's to see % of damage reduced by armor? Maybe what was the chance to hit of that attack? Misses and glances could be shown as well. All that info is in combat tab, so why not on screen? Let us decide what we can see, change it's location, change the size of font, color, etc. I'd love to see combat history window that would show me last fights. Damage dealt and received.


I was hoping to finally see some real stats of my character. Character window could be expanded and show total/average values of your stats like critical chance, hit chance, damage etc. Checking more info while holding ALT could work very well with item stats. If you hold alt, you see % dmg reductions on armor and dmg/crit on weapons. Make rarity affect these stats as well.


Also, as mentioned before, nothing about dual wield, archery, no new weapon types like one handed spears or crossbows.


Would I call it combat update? Yes. Overhaul? Definitely not.


 

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Interactive combat isnt actual that fun in a game like this. Don't forget group combat which is what really is important.

Hunting is just going to get tedious if it's too interactive and the aiming/defending isn't tuned for group combat at all. It would definitely seem like a negative change on a pvp server in regards to the aiming/defending being more important.

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18 minutes ago, Joemog said:

Interactive combat isnt actual that fun in a game like this.

 

Your opinion. 

 

They could literally copy the tried and true tab targeting combat loop in most other MMOs like WoW and it would be a super upgrade from what we have now.

 

We have MUD combat system at best, with a few interface buttons so we don't have to type our commands.

Edited by phennexion
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Difficulty indicator isn't right. I tried fighting an Aged sol demon with 50 skills and 30 characteristics. 50 ql steel chain, 50 ql two-handed axe, mounted on horse. Using Auto fight. I got killed while mob had around 80% of life left.

 

I'd try testing auto fight but I dont' understand how to use manual fight system nor are there enough mobs around to do so.

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What a major disappointment this is... waited years for it, but overall... meh...

It still feels older than the game is.

All that really changed is that now we get all the stuff that was inside the combat window printed on top of my characters head.

Long lines of text in my face every time something gets hit. Please make easy to read icons from those lines.

the directional indicators are nice but it doesn't really add more fun to the game.

It's still slow and it is still standing still a lot while you wait.

 

As a new player you won't see those skills you can click anyway so I don't expect any new positive steamreviews to come from this change.

And make some icons for those skills.

 

Overall it's still 1995 and it won't make me more willing to go hunting for leather..

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On 2/25/2021 at 10:46 AM, phennexion said:

 

. . . We have MUD combat system at best, with a few interface buttons so we don't have to type our commands.

 

YES. ^ This ^

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~TL:DR~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ditch the decades-old "narrative combat" concept. Streamline HUD/on-screen combat visuals. Use icons, custom colors, and such to replace as much combat text as possible. Get this stuff organized. Push beyond "update" and deliver actual "overhaul" content, not just back-end patching of things we should have already had. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

In general, I feel like some of these on-screen combat visuals entirely miss the point of combat visuals.  #1 is to deliver vital data that informs tactical adjustments in as CONSCISE a manner as possible. READING A FULL SENTENCE IS NOT "CONSCISE COMBAT VISUALS". 

 

Full, detailed sentences belong in the combat log - for fight review after combat has ended & you want to implement tweaks or revisions in your weapon, armor, tactical choices, timing, etc. On-screen visuals need to be a combo of simple icons and single-word or single-phrase text. Even with turn-based combat systems, if I want a "narrative" experience of combat, I'll pull up the log window - but the point is, we don't want narrative combat anymore. Games / MMOs moved away from that literally decades ago. 

 

I don't need a full combat overhaul - I wasn't even really expecting one anyway - but I did expect the current combat system to be better implemented. Right now, it feels like this update took the current combat system elements & just moved various elements to new places in the UI and made otherwise routine tweaks to the back-end numbers to better balance the system. That is minor patch content. Not a "Combat Overhaul." 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Here's some thoughts, so far - 

  • sentences & details belong in combat logs, not the HUD
     
  • when possible, replace full text in the HUD with simple icons or simplified text (arrows, ability and status effect symbols or text, color-coded damage types, CRITS in CAPS or a special color, etc.)
     
  • Organize floating combat visuals to separate what is incoming versus outgoing. My preference would be robust customizable HUD elements, but I know I'm dreaming. I would settle for something like incoming on the left side, outgoing on the right. Or incoming above the enemy head, outgoing below the enemy feet.  etc.
     
  • Scroll floating combat visuals when in close sequence. As I scanned the combat visuals about the hit I just took, the text would quickly be replaced by the next thing. Scrolling retains sequential info (like a combat log), but more succinctly - and keeps everything on-screen long enough for the information to be scanned before it disappears. Customizable would be preferred, but at least a Toggle on/off would be appreciated. 
     
  • We already know our damage type(s). This can help simply the HUD visuals. All I need on-screen is Blow Strength + Result. We chose and equip our weapons out of combat and can familiarize with all the special moves available. When we're actually in combat, "Light Slap" is optimal. "Hard Hurt" and "Deadly Damage." That's all. 
     
  • Thank you for reducing / tweaking the blood overlay... Can we get a Toggle option, please? 
     
  • I applaud and encourage remaining firmly away from the numbers / damage game. A single "50 slashing damage" begins an inevitable race to a finish line littered with epeen, dps checks, gear min/maxing, and more epeen. Not a good look - not a good fit with Wurm. 
     
  • Accessibility options... . Players don't need to be coddled, but please just consider customizable options for colors (for colorblind or color-sensitive players), customizable sizing & transparency for text, icons, visual effects (for neurovisual syndromes or other visually impaired players), the ability to Toggle on/off visual effects, overlays, specific elements (for a variety of neurodivergent reasons, including sensory processing impairments). etc. 
     
  • Design and Implement combat viability for fighting & weapon styles already in-game but otherwise undeveloped. Unarmed fighting and/or fist-weapon fighting;  bows (and crossbows??), dual-wielding, magic (priest and sorcery).

 

Well, I think that's enough to be getting on with for now. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. 
💜✌🏼️🌱

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