Davih

Please do something to address, even temporarily, the unique-slaying situation

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a reward system like rifts might be an idea altho i know this system's also unpopular... but a unique point system might do. blood in local for everyone can stay the same. i doubt anyone's got issue with the blood. rest of reward given as unique points and you can redeem what you want maybe? to unlock a reward being available the same type of mob must have been killed recently in cluster. so would push for people to hunt too. so cant get some green hide if a green hatchling hasnt been slain in the last 2 weeks for example.unless you pick random hide and get lucky. could add option for tomes too?

 

point system would work well on a defend the area type battle (get more point for the less damage and speed of kills) making speed a factor, so larger groups prefered ;) 

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Lemme see if I got this right...

 

The Left:  Dragons should be free for everyone.  And anytime one is killed everyone on the server should get blood, hide, and scale.  The bone should be randomly given out too.  No more penning because it's it's only benefiting the few.  How can everyone get sets of drake and scale if we don't change something.  Every time we bring this up the elitists push back against any change.  It's not fair.

 

The Right: Dragons should be for those that find them.  If it's made so everyone gets a prize then eventually we'll feel entitled to prizes and what'll stop people from complaining they were off server at the time and didn't get something.  Besides, why does everyone need armor meant for PvP just so they can spend all their time on PvE.  What's the point, if you don't live on a risk server why have the best armor and for free?  It just brings the value down.  Every time we bring this up the elitists push back against any change.  It's not fair.

 

I generally side myself with being conservative, but I just don't see either side being truly in the right.  I feel unique AI and spawn rates should be altered, not other game mechanics.  I'm just one of many suggesting stuff that'll be ignored well after most people here that care have scale sets.

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2 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

Lemme see if I got this right...

Well, no, not really, you didn't get it right, at least not the point i was trying to make :D

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3 minutes ago, Davih said:

I gotta say this would be an awesome  idea, if they find a decent way to replace the stuff they drop... 

 

Perhaps something along the lines of meteor drops?   After global spells are cast unique bones objects spawn around the map.  When opened has the % chance for rare bones, tomes, the usual.  Maybe 2-3 per cast spawn, once items are taken out they decay like tree stumps or something.  Encourages more people to cast global spells, and people still have to look for these bone objects.. but zero penning... and everyone would know after the cast to look.

Edited by Nomadikhan

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1 minute ago, Nomadikhan said:

 

Perhaps something along the lines of meteor drops?   After global spells are cast unique bones objects spawn around the map.  When opened has the % chance for rare bones, tomes, the usual.  Maybe 2-3 per cast spawn, once items are taken out they decay like tree stumps or something.

and blood/scales/hide aswell?
Looks like a terrible idea, might still somehow be better than the current situation, lol
 

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+1

i agree that changes need to be made, but i dont agree with alot of the changes people want. private slayings is the right of the people who hunt them like in any mmo groups are formed to take down bosses and the mechanics of how said bosses work and when they can spawn ect have been mastered by these groups. that is time and effort put into the game to learn it and they deserve the right to slay it.

 

i dont agree with people who are not even able to hit the dragon one time receiving any loot at all and this is a restriction that needs to be improved so that only those who have earned the right thru skill training by show of actions should be able to receive any loot.

 

their are alot of things people can do like the rift setup for it, increasing how many uniques spawn, announcing spawn location general, making it an actual mission catagory.

 

but in all of these they should still be restricted to who is actually able to fight it calculated by actual hit does, damage taken from creature and heals at a reduced point catagory since we know healing in rift is op for points. not every random john doe alt in local should get rewards.

 

so you are right some changes should be done. but a few like making it so everyone on server who didn't participate in the fight gets the loot is not the answer.

Edited by eldarian

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I just held a public Goblin Leader hunt on Harmony and we all had a great time.  The loot on corpse was split amongst a select few that were part of the Gang, back when it was captured.  If it were a dragon, I promise you, it would not have been made public.  Hide/scale drops thinning out as the group gets bigger is the only reason why.  Everyone involved wants their set of armor and on the new servers, it will be highly exclusive for a couple years or more. 

 

If the hide/scale drops were not diluted, then I would expect to see them all made public - while generally retaining the corpse loot drops for the capturing party.  Those loot drops in themselves can be extremely rewarding, since the devs have decided not to include the non-tomes in the Marks store.  However, they basically only matter to PvP, so not of particular interest to the majority of Wurmians, other than the resale value for a big payday.  Silvers are great, but the vast majority of players aren't here to earn silvers.  They are here to make a lasting impression on a virtual world.

 

I think of everything mentioned in this thread, just simply making hide/scale drops a fixed amount for any players in local would be the quickest and best fix of the system.  If I penned a dragon and the hide were a fixed drop like bloods, I would be thrilled to invite the world to come collect.  If I get a dragon corpse for my graveyard or a rare bone as a direct reward for my efforts, cost of penning, etc, that is more than enough.  Honestly, the thanks that flood the chat channels are more valuable than any of that.

 

But, until we all have several sets of scale/hide armor for all our favorite alts, not much chance of holding public slayings of Dragons.

 

+1 to fix this.  I've always been in favor of changing the Unique game and although it has made some great steps along the way, one more big step is needed - Fixed scale/hide for all in local.

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uniques are kind of in a weird spot like jackal was, it's a weird mishmash of conflicting ideas that just end up not really pleasing anyone

 

They're end game gear (endgame gear in a game where you can afk trolls in cloth lol), but even a newbie can find them, and they've been balancing around the fact that anyone can find them, but shouldn't end game gear be balanced around end game players getting them?

 

They want you to just find them riding around and not actually looking for them, but they posted how far away from deeds they spawn, and you can guess when uniques spawn based on when the last one did (rng ain't true rng, as anyone who's played this game can tell you) so people who are dedicated to hunting can easily find them before someone will stumble into them, as very few people actually hunt or ride around or whatever. Should probably change their spawning mechanics so they're not on the same timer as wu lmao

 

They're balanced around anyone finding them, but all servers use the same spawn times regardless of size, so someone living/searching on a 8x8 server is going to find one much easier. Not accounting for massive mountains and such, you're 4x less likely to find a unique on a 16x16 vs a 8x8, and 16x less likely to find one on xanadu than a 8x8. This also isn't taking into factor that if a unique is alive on the server, it blocks the spawn and makes unique spawns after it less likely (each check is a 1/500 chance on every non alive unique, 0 uniques alive = 14 chances, 10 uniques alive = 4 chances, etc). I'm suprised in all the years this game has been out nobody has thought to permapen all the hatchlings to only get humanoid and dragon spawns on a server, as a hatching kill is basically worthless unless you're soloing it with alts. I guess technically xanadu is halfway there, with charcoal being permapenned and a GDH being unfound since 2017.

 

Combat in them is fairly meh balanced aswell, you can kill all the humanoids+hatchlings with 3 good accounts, and dragons with 9, if you want an enjoyable fight you'd probably be close to that but after that it's just a whack the pinata and not really worth being called a unique fight, every time i go to a slaying with more than 20 people i just target it and go play a game in the other monitor because there's nothing really interesting unless you're trying to minmax how many people are there

 

Loot is evenly split between everyone in local, so this rewards private slayings, but even with a small group, you're not going to get armor at a reasonable rate. Say you found 100% of uniques on a server, this equates to 17.28 uniques per year on average assuming you kill them before the next spawns. On average, if you found every unique, you'd probably find one of each dragon+hatching+humanoid in a year + 3 extras, dragons/drakes drop on average about 1.1 sets across local when killed, and humanoids are what, 60% for a 3 charge tome?  In a year, if you're in a group that averages 20 killers at each slaying, finds every unique on a single server and you went to every slaying with no alts you'd have about 1/3 of a drake set, 1/3 of a scale set, and 5 humanoids would be 3 tomes on average, so 9 tome charges on average split across 20 rollers, so about 45% chance for a single tome charge out of 15 possible sorcery items. Assuming no buying/trading/gifting loot and all tomes are rolled, You're looking at 3 years of being part of a 20 person group for a set of drake/scale on average, and around 10 years to get one of each tome charge. If you've ever wondered why even the small group slayings are full of alts, there's your answer. All the nerfs to scale/hide/tome drop rates over the years just made it so that if you don't do super private slayings with alts, you won't make any real progress on a armour set/set of tomes/whatever. If tomes were back to 100% drop rate and hide/scale/supreme+ bone drop rates scaled with unique players in local you'd see more incentive to host bigger slayings but currently unless you want to wait years or spend every waking moment ingame searching every server whenever your probability calculator says there's a unique on a server as some groups seem to enjoy you're just not going to get a set, not much else to say on that.

 

I'm not really sure how you'd go about fixing this one, but the main reason that only a few groups find uniques is that they're the only ones searching for them, Though i'm not really sure if this is entirely because of misconceptions about unique hunting, or it's just so god dam boring when you don't find anything that people just give up. I can speak from experience on this, as I remember back before i started unique hunting, everyone was saying oh its impossible they use maphacks they find them instantly no point searching all that junk, and then i started unique hunting, out of the next 10 uniques that spawned, i found like 6 or 7 of them, and i was just picking up the ropes on how to hunt then, and they didn't complain about the groups after that, they very instantly swapped to oh its impossible oblivion maphacks he finds them instantly no point searching, it was almost surreal how quickly that came around, and i wasn't even good at it lol, there was literally only 2-3 people actually running around whenever a unique spawned. I wonder if i'm still the household name for uniques or i've faded into obscurity lol

 

anyway delete uniques yes good idea noiz

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
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The other thing you could do is create a new deed roles group called "Uniques".  In the Uniques role, you have a place to add player names and every player in that role would get double the hide/ scale/blood drop as everyone else in local.  This would be something specifically for the system where hide/scale drops are NOT diluted by the number of people in local.  This, because sometimes there is absolutely no loot after the kill.

 

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7 hours ago, Davih said:

i guess i will have to edit my original thread to "almost everyone"

 

Unless you have personally polled "almost everyone" who plays the game, I'd suggest you amend it to something like "me and my friends."

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6 minutes ago, Oblivionnreaver said:

 

Yeah, but the point is not really "QQ, they are too find to find, i don't have a chance at playing the unique-finding game" this was never really the point of the thread.
The point is that it creates a toxic environment, as from your story, you probably noticed yourself, and we should just have this addressed to remove the toxicity from the game however possible.

If scale/hide are too scarce and you need too many uniques to get a set like you said (3 years?), then making it drop a bigger overall quantity by giving it to more people, shouldn't even a big issue

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2 minutes ago, Minnie said:

 

Unless you have personally polled "almost everyone" who plays the game, I'd suggest you amend it to something like "me and my friends."

Over the years? well, i might have came close to that,  lol

The amount of general negative disinterest i have received from SO MANY different people about this issue was pretty overwheling. I haven't really just talked with "my friends" about this.
One thing is sure though, seems like everyone who is interested in keeping things like they are showed up at once. I guess they are mostly very-active players :D
While probably the newest or most casual part of the community doesn't actively follow this section of the forum.

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11 minutes ago, Wurmhole said:

The other thing you could do is create a new deed roles group called "Uniques".  In the Uniques role, you have a place to add player names and every player in that role would get double the hide/ scale/blood drop as everyone else in local.  This would be something specifically for the system where hide/scale drops are NOT diluted by the number of people in local.  This, because sometimes there is absolutely no loot after the kill.

 

Maybe with a limit, of 10-25 players, in that case, or the scenario would just become "let's add literally everyone to that role" :D

Edited by Davih
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"Psssst Wurmhole, can you add me too?  Here is 1s for your trouble"

 

Yes, good point.

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sail or ride 4 hrs out of your way for what ? 1 blood and maybe 0.0001 hide eww what a joke..

 

+1 delete uniques

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I am a casual player that played EPIC a while ago.

EPIC was different, hunts were a kingdom thing. Everybody was in the same alliance and the timings were clear.

 

Here on freedom (SFI) I keep seeing uniques slayed on niarja that I have not heard of at all on any in-game chat.

 

I think something should be done.

 

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Maybe the "very active" people are who take the time to actually go out and search?

I really love to see that people monopolize the uniques. They can't. If you find them first it is claimed to you. I don't see where is the toxicity with the current rules regarding finders are fully covered in regards of what they want to do with the unique.

Well, I don't have many different things and achievements I would love to have in Wurm because I never put the effort in them or did not have the time. This is why Wurm is great, you can choose what is what you prefer to do - and always there are leads to what to do later when you are full of the current activity.

The weirdest bit of the current hunting system is that toons just being in local get loot. It should be limited to those ones that actually participated.

EDIT: yes it takes a huge amount of time to find a unique. It will yield good coins if the loot is sold yes. Others yield good coins by spamming rares or casting super stuff in that time - and there comes the market into the equation :)

Edited by Jaz
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Well, how about a nice 3rd option:

 

Hide/Scale amounts are entirely fixed, 0.01 per premium player present at the slaying.

 

Every 10 unique players (with mechanics in place ot avoid alt abuse of this mechanic) who land a hit on the dragon/cast a hostile spell on the dragon/cast a healing spell on someone attacking the dragon increases this amount by 0.01.

 

More players = More rewards; no more drama.

 

"But people could just use tons of alts in local to farm it easily" - They can also use alts to power grind faith, channeling, and cheese the existing system anyway.  At least this way it doesn't negatively impact everyone else around.

"What about the other dragon drops?" - Honestly?  In public slayings they're usually rolled for anyway.  This probably won't change.

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This is exactly what happened in another game i have been playing, uniques or boss will always be camped/taken by hardcore players no matter what you do and others will complain. The developers of the game introduced a random spawn timer for those unique and yet it didn't fix the issue till they made boss invocable after paying a certain price in your house did the trick.

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3 minutes ago, Ngin said:

This is exactly what happened in another game i have been playing, uniques or boss will always be camped/taken by hardcore players no matter what you do and others will complain. The developers of the game introduced a random spawn timer for those unique and yet it didn't fix the issue till they made boss invocable after paying a certain price in your house did the trick.

Changes of how the uniques work should keep in the theme of Wurm being a true sanbox game, the rifts are already a step into the wrong direction in my eyes - and viola there is still drama around them anyway.

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9 hours ago, Davih said:

Seriously? 
what other "new stuff" could be more important than fixing the absolute shitshow that ruined 70% of the in-game relationships between players in the history of wurm over the years?
I think there is no bigger priority in the game than fixing this thing right now, but i guess everyone has its point of view...

i guess i will have to edit my original thread to "almost everyone"
 

Seriously.

I used to think just like you or similar, but now i am being skeptical in any kind of "rework"

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7 minutes ago, Tor said:

Seriously.

I used to think just like you or similar, but now i am being skeptical in any kind of "rework"

Well, i am also kinda skeptical about any kind of rework, but doesn't mean we have to give up hope, i guess x_x

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8 hours ago, gnomegates said:

When you have end game content locked behind a small group of players, it makes some people ask why should I even bother to try.

The content is not locked.  And the reason you should bother to try is because it’s the only way to achieve the goal.

 

The only way to find a unique is to look for it.  If nobody except 15 people are out looking for them, then it’s not all that surprising that those 15 people are going to be the only ones finding them. 


Let’s imagine that every single player in the game, except the 15 who are already in a group, decided they were going to band together and form one enormous hunting group.  They made an educated guess about where they might find uniques (there have been plenty of hints dropped in this thread and others), and all of them went to that area and started looking.  And they kept doing this every single day, devoting every hour of playtime to the endeavor.  I’m guessing they’d give the established group a run for their money.

 

But if you are not willing to even attempt to get in the game, it's a bit ridiculous to demand something for nothing, under the guise of "it's best for the community."  Like, I should get a 90ql weapon, but without having to grind WS.  Or, I want an enormous castle, but someone else has to mine the stone, cut the bricks, and build it.  But it's all for the good of the community!  Please.

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7 minutes ago, Minnie said:

The content is not locked.  And the reason you should bother to try is because it’s the only way to achieve the goal.

 

The only way to find a unique is to look for it.  If nobody except 15 people are out looking for them, then it’s not all that surprising that those 15 people are going to be the only ones finding them. 

I mean, oblivionnreaver had the means to find uniques on hiw own, but let's not forget that he's also the guy that made a lot of crazy stuff over the years, like crafting  2 fantastic items and probably more rares than me.

I would say that a random player, even a committed, but not insane one that will try to find uniques alone, against 15 experienced players, has probably very little chances of finding them.

You are still pretending that we came here to yell "we want free stuff for no reason other than the fact that we demand it!!1"

This was never really the point of this thread, the point if there it toxicity and general unhappiness related to this matter, the fact that so many people came here to give such kind of answers only proves it further.
Reworks have been promised but never delivered, we currently have a new server, with new players that are now starting to experience the same kind of sour feeling that many other experienced before them, and it could really be about time to actually do something about it.

More often than not, people would be totally ok to share said events with the community if that didn't mean getting less stuff for themselves, as others pointed out even in this thread.

You aren't one of them? ok , we got that, but that doesn't mean you should treat as a "lazy freeloader" anyone who had enough of this unique system and stays away from it and its drama until something gets changed.

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What about the guy who rides along and finds it and lets othere ppl know to help and then they deed it gets other's to come in and kill it for them ,so they get what ? 1 blood 1 hide are 0.0001 the guy who rips ppl buy butchering it and getting what rare bone skull blood hide ? umm. something dont seem right here.

 

Like what do you get form Butchering a uniques the same as ppl in local the same as the ppl helping kill it ?

Like its funny i run across 2 all i ever got was what blood and 0.0001 hide..

 

Butchering produces
Meat, Skull, Strange bone, Tooth, Eye, Gland
 

Helpping ppl kill it what 1 blood and o.ooo1 hide is this right ?

 

 

Edited by Gawain

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