Davih

Please do something to address, even temporarily, the unique-slaying situation

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This has been suggested countless times, endless variations on possibilities to fix this have been suggested over the years.

Almost everyone  agrees that changes are overdue.

The point is: just do something, even temporary, until a more solid and structured rework is ready.

SO MANY years have passed since this was first recognized as an obvious problem for the game and the community, and we still have dramas all the time, people that quit the game over said dramas, and a generally negative feeling surrounding the topic.

I don't know if a rework is being planned, or if it's near to completion, or anywhere in between.

But there are so many possible "simple" fixes that could smooth out things a bit until the supposed rework is ready.

Like:
- Don't split a fixed amount of hide/scale between the players, but give a fixed amount to everyone present instead.
- The corpse leaves a lankmark that stays there for 24-48+ hours , cannot be enclosed, and anyone who wants to "grab a piece" if he wants to (maybe 3+ total months of premium requirement if not present during the event?)
- Any, or even a portion of the other countless suggestions that have been made regarding this topic
- literally anything that prevents those events from becoming "private pens" that end up creating drama and hard feelings between players, because the last thing we need in this game right now, expecially after the imbues have been re-introduced in this game are this kind of sour feelings that are inevitably coming back to the community.

 

Edited by Davih
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-1, better put time in new stuff

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6 minutes ago, Tor said:

-1, better put time in new stuff

Seriously? 
what other "new stuff" could be more important than fixing the absolute shitshow that ruined 70% of the in-game relationships between players in the history of wurm over the years?
I think there is no bigger priority in the game than fixing this thing right now, but i guess everyone has its point of view...

i guess i will have to edit my original thread to "almost everyone"
 

Edited by Davih
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-1

 

Players who put their time into hunting, surviving the penning process, putting silver into the required metals etc should be able to do with the unique what they want.

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Absolutely +1.

If scales and skins would work as bloods it would be a dream; every player could earn his own piece, equal for everyone, and there would be no need of making hidden events and stuff like that.
The dragons would still be dropping unique items, like tomes or bones, so the hunters would have their reward in any case.

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I'm not sure if we are playing different games or i am only getting answers from the people who actively do the private slayings and don't want things to change (i honestly have no idea).

But i'm not saying that the players that hunt the uniques should be forced to do anything, in fact i haven't even talked about any of the possible drops from the uniques (rare bonus, tomes, or anything) Which by itself is a pretty bad mechanic, but hard to rework.
I was talking about addressing the obvious problem that concerns most of playersbase, which is being completely cut out from any dragon/hatchling slay forever due to how the mechanics work, that doesn't allow them to make those slaying public without a huge economical disadvantage, and forcing them to keep them private. Even most of the veteran players are cut out from them and sore about it, let alone how hard could it be for a new players to hunt one on his own or being included in one of those events.

I mean, i didn't even put it between the options, but even having the entire amount of hide/scale dropped on the corpse instead of being distributed among local, could be a decent "temporary patch", if that is the thing that you are worried about.

 

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The sad thing is that every time this subject is brought up, the same small group of people defending the current system come out in force to push back against any changes. The thought is that those that are not part of the private parties can just go look for their own uniques and host their own private or public event. Everyone has the same ability to go out and find the uniques. I agree with this to a point, except that others have pointed out that there may be 3rd party programs being used to help locate these uniques. If this is true or not I have no idea, nor have I attended any private slayings. But just even the mention of the use of 3rd party programs can make many people think what is the point in wasting my time looking for the unique when others are going to use unfair advantages to find them. Why would anyone waste their time doing so if this is the case. 

 

I know I would not waste my time out searching for uniques if I thought that I was up against people that have an unfair advantage. Even the suggestion of it makes me not want to think about looking. Because true or not, the player base will never know, and the seed of doubt that is planted tells me to spend my time doing other things that are more productive. 

 

I agree to a point, with those that do say that if they put in the time and effort to find the uniques and secure them, then they should be able to do what they want. That is the way the current system is set up, so it is only fair that they play within that system. I don't think it is good for the community though and that is where suggestions about making changes come in. But those that have a hold on the private hunts don't even want the suggestions, they will still say that anyone has the right to find them and do what they want, and that is not at debate, but they will try to side track the debate off of topics of suggestions to what the players currently can do and what they should be able to do. 

 

I don't have suggestions as to how to make the current system more fair and balanced or better for the overall community. I just know that there is an entire aspect to the game that 95% of the player base cannot gain access to because it is secured by the same people for years. And to be clear the issue is the hide/scale that drops from the hatchlings and dragons. Some of these same private unique groups will even make the other unqiues public, because they gain from there being more blood on the market, because they need/want the blood just as much as anyone else. But because there is only a small amount of the scale/hide that drops, they want to limit the access to that. 

 

It is not hard at all to find out who attends the private hunts, in fact the last hatchling kill had 15 people there, with many of them alts of those already there. So while these things may be "private" they are not hidden and there are at least 2 easy ways to know everyone who was at the hunt, maybe more ways, but at least 2.

 

The current prices that I have been quoted in game by 2 different parties that attend the private hunts puts full sets of drake armor at 5g-8g and scale at 10g+. Sure they want to control the market, making that kind of coin even possible, why not, but I don't think it is good for the community as a whole and it needs to be addressed. When you have end game content locked behind a small group of players, it makes some people ask why should I even bother to try.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

Edited by gnomegates
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Thanks for your input, i kinda understand why nobody was opening a thread like this one (again) now to insist on those matters, and i might have been a bit naive to open it in this way, i see some drama might already start to form up, but  that kinda goes towards my point if anything.
And i REALLY don't even want to go to check out who attends the private slayings, because there might even be some people that i know among them, so i guess i prefer to stay in my blissfull ignorance and perpetrate my point regardless of who is involved.
I mean, the point of this thread wouldn't be convincing them to change the way they do things, and if an opportunity to control a market like you said has estabilished, it's not the players that have to be blamed, but the game that allowed such opportunity to be there in the first place. So it's really on the people who have actual power over these game mechanics to do something about them.
It's not even about having the opportunity, it's just a terrible game design, over the years i've been invited to 3 different unique-hunting groups in the old servers, but i always refused because i've already had more than enough of my share of drama from that aspect of the game, and i will try to avoid as much as possible until something changes,  and i know a LOT of people that shared my point of view over this matter.

Edited by Davih
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Aye, its not a "fun" topic and there is always drama around it. Like I said, I also have no real problem with people that are doing the hunts legit and within the current game system. But I do not think that the current system is not the best for the community and that is where the focus of such talks need to be. The push back by some involved though is normally pretty swift and obvious. I do think it is a talk that is needed and a the overall system needs to be addressed. 

 

Its a tough thing to change and I don't envy the dev team at all should they choose to address this topic in some fashion. There will be no pleasing everyone when it comes to this subject matter, but as they have said in the recent past concerning the imbue changes, they are focused on doing what is best for the game moving forward, (general thought behind what was said). 

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few years back i did a similar topic asking for suggestions and a look into the system. was met with a wall of "do not change go find your own!" protest. who all sounded like broken robots. with no argument no real answer just yelling "NO NO NO go find your own" when what was truly sounding was "we get money on this system dont change it"

so yes. give fixed hide or have the corpse as a marker. make sure the ones who make the event get some reward too (thinking of Stanlee recently who made many events public and kept nothing for himself, even a fantastic bone was handed out)

it should be an endgame event sure but dont make it a limited entry one. imagine if other MMOs had a limited number of entries to end game dungeon per server and only a few hoarded those ?

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I am NOT involved in any private groups. I want that clear up front.

 

I have found three dragons/hatchlings in the past couple of years just by being out from my deed. I was also involved in the trapping and slaying of a different one several years ago. Trapping is NOT easy. If you're going to do it easy you need a lot of experience and have a shaker orb on you. The last one I found was after I was well experienced with high skills in a lot of areas, and I still had to call for help from someone very experienced with trapping and securing dragons.

 

The first one I was involved with was when a newb had one on his deed. It took us HOURS to get him trapped. I can't tell you how many times I died. Then I organized a slay. After that slay I vowed never again. People were rude. They complained. For all the work that goes into it I felt l had been rung through the gauntlet trying to get the slay done.

 

If people go through all the work to hunt and trap I have no problem letting them do whatever they want with it. 

 

If they change the way I would dare say those same people who routinely hunt them now will just give up, and there will be far fewer trapped and slays organized.

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3 minutes ago, ChampagneDragon said:

If they change the way I would dare say those same people who routinely hunt them now will just give up, and there will be far fewer trapped and slays organized.

I seriously doubt this, and i never said there must be no reward for the people actively penning it, it just said that it should be designed in a way that doesn't make it unprofitable to share it with the rest of the community, like it is for all the goblin leaders / forest giants / etc events that are almost always made public for the community.
Because, after all, people aren't jerks, and if sharing doesn't mean "losing a lot", people more often than not, have no problems sharing.

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IT'S FINE...

107a97ca5bd4a571edcebec54a66fc32.jpg

 

+ bunch of threads every year where I write the same things covered in this thread above.. and some of the people in there normally say 'NO, it's NOT like that LOL', than you have 10-20 clueless followers supporting the fake claims and it turns out that it's ok, "no issues, no need for change"

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Here's the thing.   

 

Most of the people doing private slayings spend dozens of hours PER WEEK trying to find a unique.  The amount of reward they get I think properly balances with the work they put in. 

 

To demand public slayings so that everyone gets a piece of the pie for not putting any work into it is a ridiculous thought.

 

To ask for a revamp of a system that gives end-game loot (scales/hide/bloods (yes i consider imbues endgame)) to all players and their alts that have literally put in 0 effort to get, seems like an odd request.

 

I do like the idea of hide/scale staying on the body for whoever captured them, but even the blood should have a skillcheck.  Something like (if fighting is over70, and has hit the unique 5 times, or has done X damage) then get a blood reward.  

 

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If you have evidence of 3rd party hacking tools being used, please share them with staff - you can contact myself or Retrograde directly, or the GM team.  Use of these tools are strictly against the game rules, and will result in bans, but "so-and-so found his 3rd dragon, he must be using hacks!" isn't helpful to anyone.  The idea of people breaking the system like that irritates us as much as it does you, and we will do something about it, where it's actually happening.

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I don't understand why several replies agreeing with this are being edited out / deleted from the thread, am i going insane?
This is kinda starting to freak me out.

That said, i think many of you are missing the point of this thread entirely. I am not saying this must become "free stuff for everyone", i'm just saying that it should be redesigned in a way that AT LEAST doesn't make sharing the event unprofitable for whoever decides to share it with the public. it's really a simple and obvious concept if you take it as it is:

"Sharing an unique-killing event shouldn't be punished by the game mechanics."

Because that brings 95% of the community, EVEN MORE SO the "new players" that we all wanted for so long, to be cut out from one of the main parts of the end-game.

 

Edited by Davih
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8 minutes ago, Davih said:

Because that brings 95% of the community, EVEN MORE SO the "new players" that we all wanted for so long, to be cut out from one of the main parts of the end-game.

 

That was my point though.  in no game ever do 'new players' get access to endgame events and loot.   most MMOs require you to spend hundreds of hours to get to that level.

Edited by Smokes
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1 minute ago, Smokes said:

That was my point though.  in no ever do 'new players' get access to endgame events and loot.   most MMOs require you to spend hundreds of hours to get to that level.

 

But after spending those hours everyone who does spend those hundreds of hours has access to the end game content in other MMO's. As it is now in Wurm, you can spend the hundreds of hours, and hundreds of silver getting the needed skill and gear, and never see one of the drake/dragons unless your part of the private hunts. So it is not even a valid comparison. 

 

If players cannot have a chance to skill up and gear up for end game content, why should they bother? There is no true reason to spend the hundreds of hours needed for 95% of the player base whey they will never have use for those skills. If they enjoy hunting and fighting other mobs, that is perfectly valid and legit, more power to them. You can point to rifts as well, but even fighting skill is not needed there, as people with 10 fighting skill can go around and target spam mobs and top the leader boards.

 

I do not blame the people for using the game systems that are in place they way that they are, but I do think that they need to be reworked to include more of the player base. No one here is asking for or "demanding" anything be made easier or for you to lose your hold on private hunts, all that is being asked for is a look at the current system to make the end game content accessible to more then 5% of the player base.

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This isn't a MMORPG theme-park game where you aren't supposed to access the lategame until you are level  100, you can literally go to a rift with 1 fighting and no gear, and gain something out of it.
Besides that, it's not a point of spending hundreds of hours in the game to "unlock" the content, it's an elitist-group mechanic, you can have 99 fighting and still be completely cut out of it, new players will not even have a clue on how to be included on one of those events/groups for YEARS, because of how those groups are handled.

But again, i'm not here to blame the players or the groups, becoming greedy (like someone stated before me) in an economy-driven PVE game is an obvious and completely forgivable consequence of playing the game in a non-casual approach.

Letting the greediness take over the game at the point that it denies lategame to other people and it creates an extermely toxic environment, is something that the developers must focus on fixing at all costs, because their main focus should be to keep the game nice and enjoyable for everyone, even more so for new players, otherwise the game is just going to die a slow and agonizing death.

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I am curious how dragons/uniques are considered end game content when all they do is provide the needed materials for some buffs that you can purchase with your very easily obtainable silver/gold from the actual end game - grinding your skills to high level.

Stop comparing dragons/uniques to raids etc on other games, as most other games have bind on equip loot n shiet. 

 

I agree that they need to make it so that sharing uniques doesn't outright impact the penners - as it stands, a public slaying often costs you more to pen the dragon than you can actually make off of it, but I have yet to ever see a system suggested that can make it profitable for everyone, and worth sharing.

 

I am going to again state -1 to this suggestion however, a +1 to the eventual discovery of a method.

 

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2 minutes ago, Davih said:

 it's an elitist-group mechanic, you can have 99 fighting and still be completely cut out of it, new players will not even have a clue on how to be included on one of those events/groups for YEARS, because of how those groups are handled.

Are you sure about this?
On many different servers in my time on Wurm, including NFI, there are unique hunting groups that are open to people who are just willing to give it a go. Find the slayers on your server and ask politely. Sometimes, they will even reach out to you and ask you if you liked to join. Just don't expect them to consider you if you're likely, to you know, insult them and call them elitists? 

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23 minutes ago, Davih said:

I don't understand why several replies agreeing with this are being edited out / deleted from the thread, am i going insane?
This is kinda starting to freak me out.
 

Because accusing people of using hacking tools is not acceptable in our forum rules, we removed the post and your one quoting it. 

 

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I am sincerely amazed by how some of you might think that the hunters / penners are a valuable contribution to the game community that NEEDS to be heavily rewarded for their effort, because OTHERWISE nobody would ever host a unique slay for free or even "losing money"

This is a ridiculous arugment.

What about the people that spends thousandsof hours making canals?
vWhat about the people that spends thousands of hours making highways/bridges?
What about the people that spends hundreds of hours organizing public events in which they spend a lot of silvers but gain nothing of of them?

Where are the rewards for them? And don't mistake me, i'm not talking about myself, i barely made a hundred of highway over dirt because i needed it, whereas other people have connected entire areas of the map sinking a lot of work and silvers into it, my work is laughable in comparison.

In your vision of the world, such people shouldn't ever exist, but they do, because people do things for fun and/or fame and love doing them even if they lose silvers, just so that other people can enjoy their work.

Edited by Davih
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4 minutes ago, Davih said:

What about the people that spends thousands of hours making canals?
What about the people that spends thousands of hours making highways/bridges?
What about the people that spends hundreds of hours organizing public events in which they spend a lot of silvers but gain nothing of of them?

In your vision of the world, such people shouldn't ever exist, but they do, because people do things for fun and/or fame and love doing them even if they lose silvers, just so that other people can enjoy their work.

 

I think you answered your own question.   

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12 minutes ago, Blazecraze said:

Are you sure about this?
On many different servers in my time on Wurm, including NFI, there are unique hunting groups that are open to people who are just willing to give it a go. Find the slayers on your server and ask politely. Sometimes, they will even reach out to you and ask you if you liked to join. Just don't expect them to consider you if you're likely, to you know, insult them and call them elitists? 


As i already said, i refused invitations to 3 different hunter groups over the past.

This is not the point, i'm not talking about myself, i pride myself of having decent communication and social skills WHEN i want to, and if my only purpose was to join one of those groups and be done with it, i'm 90% sure that i would have already done it, in fact you can easily check with any existing group (i don't even know who they are, as i said multiple times) and be sure that i never asked them "in a bad way" and/or got refused.

I am just sincerely worried by this situation and hoping that it might be addressed and changed to something all people can enjoy, even those with poor communication skills.
 

  

1 minute ago, Smokes said:

 

 

I think you answered your own question.   


Yes, i am aware of that, it was a rethorical question in the first place, my point was just to say that we would have penners/slayers even if there was no reward for them, so that one is not a real argument.

Edited by Davih
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