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Davih

Please do something to address, even temporarily, the unique-slaying situation

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31 minutes ago, Tigerclaw said:

What about the guy who rides along and finds it and lets othere ppl know to help and then they deed it gets other's to come in and kill it for them ,so they get what ? 1 blood 1 hide are 0.0001 the guy who rips ppl buy butchering it and getting what rare bone skull blood hide ? umm. something dont seem right here.

 

Like what do you get form Butchering a uniques the same as ppl in local the same as the ppl helping kill it ?

Like its funny i run across 2 all i ever got was what blood and 0.0001 hide..

 

Butchering produces
Meat, Skull, Strange bone, Tooth, Eye, Gland
 

Helpping ppl kill it what 1 blood and o.ooo1 hide is this right ?

 

 

 

when a unique drake/dragon dies, everyone in local gets 1 blood and a random amount of hide.  

 

The amount of hide/scale that gets dropped follows the following formula:

Amount of total scale / Number of players in local.

The total amount is a random integer, from experience anywhere from 1.8kg to 6+kg.

 

If the total amount of scale randomed is 2kg, and there's 100 people in local, it drops a huge 0.02kg of scale to everyone.

if it's 2kg and there's 20 people in local, it gives 0.10kg.

Edited by Gawain
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Right what about the guy who pops the deed down on it pens it in a cave and butchers it ? the same as everyone who help kill it ?

 

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The guy that deeds should be the only one with pick up permissions (the owner of the unique).   They keep the butchered products (tome, bone, etc etc) on top of the local drops that everyone else gets.

 

 

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I have not seen a single suggestion (maybe except that one of Etherdrifter) which would not destroy public slayings. And I am extremely mistrusting in "balancing" or "improving" (see the catastrophe the devs did to imbues).

 

I have never attended a private slaying. When our ally found a dragon we penned it and organized a slaying. Was all much fun. So were and are the slayings Stanlee provides. Some people are out for private slayings, so what? It is not really a closed society.

 

Of course the recent system has flaws (OR in particular wrote a bit about). But the destructive attitude of those who want destroy uniques altogether is disgusting

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5 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I have not seen a single suggestion (maybe except that one of Etherdrifter) which would not destroy public slayings. And I am extremely mistrusting in "balancing" or "improving" (see the catastrophe the devs did to imbues).

 

I have never attended a private slaying. When our ally found a dragon we penned it and organized a slaying. Was all much fun. So were and are the slayings Stanlee provides. Some people are out for private slayings, so what? It is not really a closed society.

 

Of course the recent system has flaws (OR in particular wrote a bit about). But the destructive attitude of those who want destroy uniques altogether is disgusting

it's not about suggesting something good.. it's about the overlooking of issues and suggestions to the point it discourages you to report or suggest anything.

 

not to mention suggesting a fix and having it implemented as chimera is .. unpleasant; also you get absolutely nothing to chew and feed content ideas

 

would you give a good idea away at that point?

 

ether's ideas are normally bound to hyping priests and giving them holy powers and screwing balance toward overpowering priests.. something we have with passives for priests with last 'balancing' of passives etc.. for different powers.. to the point you have no change to pvp unless you're mag/lib.

 

9 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

I have not seen a single suggestion (maybe except that one of Etherdrifter) which would not destroy public slayings. And I am extremely mistrusting in "balancing" or "improving" (see the catastrophe the devs did to imbues).

 

I have never attended a private slaying. When our ally found a dragon we penned it and organized a slaying. Was all much fun. So were and are the slayings Stanlee provides. Some people are out for private slayings, so what? It is not really a closed society.

 

Of course the recent system has flaws (OR in particular wrote a bit about). But the destructive attitude of those who want destroy uniques altogether is disgusting

it is.. you new player.. there..

 

it's the only way to obtain last 2 tiers of armor and it's completely walled by exploiting a mechanic that is easily rigged by a timer and guessable places, with some practice.. you get to consistently do it for the cash.

Proving the point is in niarja logs, area history when you check your deed news and twitter feeds.. if you cared to check who does private kills and how often.

 

obi or other.. just abuse same mechanic, they are in no way special, it's a place and time with pretty good chance to score checking same place(s) in specific timeframe.. nothing about exploring and finding them by chance, seen some of some groups check servers within hours of uniques spawning or being found which tells you what?

 

if the text in color seems ok to you.. idk.. you obviously feel fine to pay 150-500euro for pixels in a game that is having faulty mechanic that is rigged by few and the many just are clueless or mute to realize it.

 

you can check last several topics for same issue and will see same people who vote -1.. something.. vote with the same.. and some vague excuse, but they are mostly imagining that things work well and there's actually looking and random encounters exist.

 

if any of that was true.. we'd be posting about changing other mechanics every year.. this one seems to remain and reappear for a reason.

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52 minutes ago, Davih said:

This was never really the point of this thread, the point if there it toxicity and general unhappiness related to this matter,

General unhappiness of the one who is not searching?

You repeat "toxicity" in your replies. Toxicity <> competition. And competition is great for Wurm - actually the only PVE competitive scenario is the unique hunting currently. There should be more of the competitive activities, it would give more reason to leave deed (ie. meet others ingame) and remove the edge from the only current such mechanic.

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2 minutes ago, Finnn said:

 

obi or other.. just abuse same mechanic, they are in no way special, it's a place and time with pretty good chance to score checking same place(s) in specific timeframe.. nothing about exploring and finding them by chance, seen some of some groups check servers within hours of uniques spawning or being found which tells you what?

 

 

 

I love the assumptions. I'm actively looking for uniques, spent 40+ net hours searching without any success to spot one, which happens and absolutely fine. Do you really think it is explotation of any mechanic except Wurm allows me to keep logged in and riding around so long?

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Suggestion : Move current hide/scale loot pool to corpse. Add a separate drop similar to how blood drops between .01-.05kg hide/scale based on performance/participation. Add functionality to put hide/scale in bsb which separates by colors so butcherer can split the drop if they want. 

Issue : Armor becomes less exclusive, therefore feels less special, devaluates.

 

Random Ideas : To counteract the more hide/scale perhaps make the difficulty harder? Currently even SFI does not struggle to get close to get 90+ to a public slaying. An even stronger boss that requires 50+ or more could be interesting. Another option to alleviate the issue could be to spawn a new random colored extra strong dragon that spawns if warmaster is killed at the end of rifts as an option (maybe hatchling if not killed)...

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26 minutes ago, Finnn said:

ether's ideas are normally bound to hyping priests and giving them holy powers and screwing balance toward overpowering priests.. something we have with passives for priests with last 'balancing' of passives etc.. for different powers.. to the point you have no change to pvp unless you're mag/lib.

I like to think it's more about fleshing out an area of gameplay with huge potential to enhance the world of wurm that is forever overlooked because "priests should be alts".  If I wanted to "screw balance" I'd be suggesting the something that let non-priests cast spells or apply special effects to items like... runes.... do...  Well damn, looks like, someone beat me to it!

 

But I digress.

 

At the end of the day; this is an issue.  Not because hard working players shouldn't be rewarded, but because it's a 0 sum game.  No-one is saying you don't deserve good fortune (and it is fortune, not skill, unless you are gaming the mechanics which is likely unintended); they're saying that they also want the chance to have good fortune and they're not currently getting it because you're getting all of it.

 

Change to a system where a greater reward is linked to greater participation and you remove the current problem.  Keep it as a competitive 0-sum game and no matter what you implement the same toxicity and drama will persist, and we'll be having the same discussion in another 3 months time when someone else notices the current system is crap.

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11 hours ago, Davih said:

This has been suggested countless times, endless variations on possibilities to fix this have been suggested over the years.

So what happened this time that another topic been created because I wasn't around for a long time. Another unique drama? Hehe

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3 hours ago, Davih said:

I would say that a random player, even a committed, but not insane one that will try to find uniques alone, against 15 experienced players, has probably very little chances of finding them.

 

And this claim is based on what evidence or experience?

 

3 hours ago, Davih said:

You are still pretending that we came here to yell "we want free stuff for no reason other than the fact that we demand it!!1"

This was never really the point of this thread, the point if there it toxicity and general unhappiness related to this matter, the fact that so many people came here to give such kind of answers only proves it further.

 

What specifically do you mean by "toxicity?"  This thread looks more like debate than toxicity to me.   And if a poster gets toxic on the forums, that is on them, not the game mechanics.  So, anything besides this thread, or past threads where these issues were discussed?

 

3 hours ago, Davih said:

You are still pretending that we came here to yell "we want free stuff for no reason other than the fact that we demand it!!1"

This was never really the point of this thread, the point if there it toxicity and general unhappiness related to this matter, the fact that so many people came here to give such kind of answers only proves it further.
Reworks have been promised but never delivered, we currently have a new server, with new players that are now starting to experience the same kind of sour feeling that many other experienced before them, and it could really be about time to actually do something about it.

More often than not, people would be totally ok to share said events with the community if that didn't mean getting less stuff for themselves, as others pointed out even in this thread.

You aren't one of them? ok , we got that,

 

You don’t know anything about me.  I’d ask you to leave off pretending that you do.

 

3 hours ago, Davih said:

but that doesn't mean you should treat as a "lazy freeloader" anyone who had enough of this unique system and stays away from it and its drama until something gets changed.

 

I just don’t understand what it is exactly that you’ve had enough of, unless it’s the idea that you have to actually do some stuff to get good loot.

 

And until you can put forth any argument as to why things must change, other than some vague notion of “toxicity” and an unsupported claim that tons of players agree with you, I will remain unconvinced.

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2 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

At the end of the day; this is an issue.  Not because hard working players shouldn't be rewarded, but because it's a 0 sum game.  No-one is saying you don't deserve good fortune (and it is fortune, not skill, unless you are gaming the mechanics which is likely unintended); they're saying that they also want the chance to have good fortune and they're not currently getting it because you're getting all of it.

 

 

What makes you think it's just luck?  Genuinely curious.  To me it seems pretty clear there is a decent amount of player skill and experience involved.

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Go to 500slaying's so we can make that drake set and we my can make 1 scale glove out of it also wow .. nothing is wrong with this at all .

So the point is, unless you find one and deed the land box it in a cave and get ppl to kill it for you DONT go to them because 1 blood and 0.0001 hide isnt worth your time .. hard one here to work out.. gzz.. . nothing

wrong with this setup at all.. as long as your the one who get there and deeds and box's it in..  duh i dont know .what should we do?? the blood now is what worthless now and you get 0.0001 oh wow i want to go to one sounds fun i want my 0.00001 hide so i can make a glove in the next 5 yrs..

 

Edited by Tigerclaw

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5 hours ago, Minnie said:

 

And this claim is based on what evidence or experience?

 

 

What specifically do you mean by "toxicity?"  This thread looks more like debate than toxicity to me.   And if a poster gets toxic on the forums, that is on them, not the game mechanics.  So, anything besides this thread, or past threads where these issues were discussed?

 

 

You don’t know anything about me.  I’d ask you to leave off pretending that you do.

 

 

I just don’t understand what it is exactly that you’ve had enough of, unless it’s the idea that you have to actually do some stuff to get good loot.

 

And until you can put forth any argument as to why things must change, other than some vague notion of “toxicity” and an unsupported claim that tons of players agree with you, I will remain unconvinced.

You are just asking me to explain what i have already explained a lot in this thread:
- You don't need evidence to realize that 1 player with poor/average experience is probably not going to overcome 15 players with lots of experience and a consolidated method, you just need logic.
- The toxicity is all over the place, countless dramas have happened related to uniques, who found them, who penned them, who has been left out or not called to partecipate,  and many other variations of  those dramas. pretending this isn't an issue is just silly at this point.
-  I'm not pretending to know you, i'm just making statements based on what you wrote, if you are actually happy to share one of those events if you find it, well, good for you! Who cares, honestly, this was never the point anyway (edit: i checked your history to figure out who you are, since you insisted on it, but i see you only commented on suggestions threads and on other people's complaining about uniques, no mention of an ingame character anywhere, so i guess it's pretty hard to know who you are, do you even play the game?) .
- The last point is not talking about "me" , even though i could also probably consider myself being in that category, but about all the people who had enough of this unique system, how can you say it's an unsupported claim? Some of them even came to write on this thread, a lot of them are in previous threads that have been made about this topic, and you can easily check them out, some might comment in the future, some probably never will because, not liking dramas, they don't even want TO GET CLOSE to this kind of threads or already left the game at some point.

Over the years i got used to being hated from random parts of the community for bringing up stuff that nobody wanted to have brought up, so i guess i can take some more random hate and drama by opening this kind of threads, rest assured that most people don't even want to touch this kind of stuff, because, like i said, toxicity and sour feelings are all over the place, if you don't believe me, i'll try to sleep at night anyway, but we are clearly playing different games.
 

Edited by Davih

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Throwing my two cents:

What about having the loot pool actually have two components:

- one share of loot (which should be exactly the amount existing at this moment - so bone, tome and whatever amount of hide or scale is distributed now) should stay on corpse, be lootable and could (and should) be split only among the core group that organized the hunt

- another share of loot (containing blood plus 0.01 or 0.02 hide or scale - depending if you are in the "leachers" group [how it is defined in code right now, 70+ FS or 30+ BS or being a priest] or not) should be given to all premium players attending

 

This way the already existing hunting groups would not actually lose anything (they'd still get the exact same reward as now from the first share of loot), while the rest of the people attending (and there would be almost no reasons for the core group not to allow other people to participate too) would still get small amounts of rewards and, maybe more important, be allowed to experiment this part of the game too.

 

At the same time, even with a turnover of 100 or 200 people (which is the most I ever seen even in the early days of NFI), I really doubt that about two extra kilos of hide or scale per dragon would really oversaturate the market (especially now when RMT is no longer a thing, so a fair share of sets will probably naturally leave game as their owners stop playing). Also, I think it should probably be relatively easy to code since it wouldn't involve changing penning, fighting, etc mechanics, just a small adjustment to the loot distribution.

Edited by Bloodreina
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All this crying and bickering, how adorable. I am not saying system is perfect, but so far the people who doesnt do anything to try to find uniques are crying here. Until we get good solution, i am saying -1 to all balancing acts due to history how all has went. Im sure devs are considering removing uniques all together and if they do, whos fault is that? 

 

The one who finds the unique should have every right to do the unique what he pleases, BUT if a public slaying was made, maybe increase the drop rate of tomes for X amount when there is 50+ players in local for example. 

 

-increase drop rate of tomes/ better bones

- unique slayings deed holder should get money back for the deeding costs, limit to something

- increase amount of hide/scale and make uniques less common. 

- deed members should get fixed amount of goods

 

Idk, just my coffee break thoughts. Now keep bickering, im sure it helps.

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all that bickering as you mention is because players are pointing out how that part of the game's broken (balance wise) and they heavily profit fromit, thus dont want to change it. and of course rather than actualy suggesting solution their method is to spam every thread about a possible change until the thread's closed. so yes mystrix the devs might get fed up and decided to remove the uniques altogether instead of searching a solution because each time it turns to a mess with the "go hunt one yourself if you dont like it" party vs people actualy seeking a change.

honestly having the entire unique system shut down until it gets balanced again sounds like the best move at this point. when no one can get to them then people will finnaly work together for a proper solution rather than this mess of toxic drama.

have them GM spawned only until a solution is found. so can have an event for impalong, christmas and the like, so they are ALL gone from the game. but remind them that uniques are a gift and not to be abused. and make sure everyone can enjoy it.

 

i could say its funny, even tho its really not, how a few players decide how other's games should be played and how vocal they are about not changing the system they change...

 

at this point there's no more possible discussion with those people. i say put the uniques back in their locked box for now. stop the spawning of new ones until a new method is found. trying to be reasonable with those extremists is just not possible. yes i'm saying it. there's no possible discussion. no middle ground. no possible idea that will satisfy them because everything works against their personal greed. so end it all. just end it. no more uniques. get rid of them. and perhaps, PERHAPS, after a few months and they calmed down those kind of thread could be opened again and people could look for an actual solution and offer ideas to the devs without getting spammed in drama each time!

how is this idea of locking them away any different from ahostage situation? it's not. that's the point! because the current situation as it is is exactly that. a hostage situation! it's a "shut up and nobody get hurts if you dont like how i got control go find your own hostage" mess and this needs to end. it has gone for too long now. this has been a nightmare since before xanadu opened. that was what.. 4 or 5 years ago? it's enough! many people left the games for various reasons, and i'm pretty sure the fact you cant do one of the most high end feature entirely is not entirely blameless.

how many people would play minecraft if they where told "from now on you cant enter the nether realms" by players?

how many would play wow if told the end dungeon is not allowing them inside because other players decided its theirs?

do i need to keep going on?

wurm has that amazing side that it allows players to do a great deal. but as uncle ben once said "with great power comes great responsibilities" so ok, its been proven some cant be responsible. its time to take back those powers turning them from superheroes to supervillains.

it's tiring to see such a great game lose its true potential because a few players decided to hoard everything. and in doing so hurt the game and the community even more. wurm has an amazing potential to grow but this kind of behavious is damaging it.

often eve online is quoted as a similar game as wurm but in space. i dont know the details of how game's inner workings are set but pretty sure this kind of behaviour would not work long. like in any other places. so why does it still run wild in wurm.

at this point the unique hunts are turning to a desease. and should be cut out... i'd say before it spreads but its been running unchecked for too long.

 

so congrats 'go hunt yourself' team. your non stop drama and nagging is pushing me( and am i truly alone here to be fed up with this drama?) towards a more radical solution i'd normaly never even suggest: complete removal of the uniques. end it. remove that cancer and fix this mess. maybe, MAYBE, when it cooled down enough that a civilised conversation can he had, a solution can be found. until then close the door and throw away the key!

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Jokes aside, I don't think that removing uniques without a well-thought alternative ready to be implemented could ever be a solution or a good decision in general.
The situation is toxic, yeah, but the people hunting them aren't "actively" damaging anyone or doing anything above the rules.
Removing them would just cause an amplified and even bigger drama and piss off an incredible amount of people without actually fixing anything.

On this thread only, there have been a lot of suggestions (apparently even from the people that seems to hunt them), ranging from the simplest and least gamechanging ones (drop hide/scale on corpse) to a number of variations of "give more loot to some, less loot to the public"
that are all obviously better and less drastic than removing the uniques, i don't see any way how that could improve the situation, unless there's another system to replace them.

Edited by Davih

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8 hours ago, Finnn said:

ether's ideas are normally bound to hyping priests and giving them holy powers and screwing balance toward overpowering priests..

This is disgusting slander. I have my disagreements with him in the field of predictible doomsaying and erm creative interpretation of figures towards that end. But he is arguably one of the most constructive participants in suggestions. And his decision to play a priest main character deserves respect.  You don't even seem to have bothered to read what he proposed which was a slight increase of drops depending on fight participation. It would not be the grand solution of everything but certainly an improvement.

 

8 hours ago, Finnn said:

it's the only way to obtain last 2 tiers of armor and it's completely walled by exploiting a mechanic that is easily rigged by a timer and guessable places,

One could discuss the journal issue. In fact, do you have so few friends in game that that nobody would lend you an armour for a minute? Or are you so poorly trusted that nobody will make business? You can even order a 99 or so medi rug for a reasonable fee.

 

 

8 hours ago, Finnn said:

with some practice.. you get to consistently do it for the cash.

You have to decide. Either you can get it consistently once you concentrated a bit on, or it is completely monopolized.

 

 

8 hours ago, Finnn said:

if any of that was true.. we'd be posting about changing other mechanics every year.. this one seems to remain and reappear for a reason.

Looking at the participation in this thread, I see four or five extremely loud and prolific posters campaigning, not sure for what. Some simply want uniques for everybody, others want them removed. If there is any toxicity about uniques, it is with this crowd. I do not see that other than ugly envy is the driver for those bickerings.  Otherwise there would be more constructive approaches.

 

Hundreds of players enjoy public slayings. In fact the proponents rather strive to destroy this fun than tolerate that others who put hundreds of hours of their playtime into finding and penning uniques have an advantage.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

. I do not see that other than ugly envy is the driver for those bickerings

Lol, but sure, the toxic people are the other ones, let's just call everyone discussing unique changes "bickering because affected by ugly envy" and ignore any other argument that has been made several times all over the thread.

That's the way to go for a " constructive approach" i guess. 

ffs.

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1 hour ago, Davih said:

Lol, but sure, the toxic people are the other ones,

Sure. The toxic people are always the other ones. The other ones are only "the same small group .. blah"

 

I just mirrored your and a few others' accusations. Didn't you recognize that? And, noteworthy, I am one of those who never participated in a private slaying (ok nearly did in one, but decided against due to lack of time for), and predictably won't have the time for during the next forseeable period of time.

 

Quote

That's the way to go for a " constructive approach" i guess.

 

A constructive approach would not be calling the recent mechanics broken, much less calling for destruction of what some cannot or are too lazy for to get. The mechanics are not broken. In the short period of bit over 3 years of Wurm I experienced 3 spontaneous public slayings (someone found a unique and called everyone), and tens of organized ones. So the community aspect is working. Of course there is space for improvements. Punishing those who are running hours over hours to find a unique, taking risks and effort to catch and pen is not a constructive approach.

 

There may be more encouragement for organizing public slayings. I am not sure in which way. Even now, participants could just drop a few coppers into the deed token of the organizer to contribute to the cost without making a fuss about. And, as said, I condemn every move likely do damage public slayings. And that is exactly what the most avid proponents are doing.

Edited by Ekcin
typo

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11 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

The other ones are only "the same small group .. blah"

I just mirrored your and a few others' accusations. Didn't you recognize that?

  Nice try but... no, i don't, because while other people might have wrote that, i actually never did say anything like that, i've only said there's toxicity surrounding the subject, in many different ways, i never specifically referred to any group as toxic, you're literally the first person i call out for that, because you, in fact, just wrote something clearly toxic in this thread.
 

11 minutes ago, Ekcin said:

A constructive approach would not be calling the recent mechanics broken, much less calling for destruction of what some cannot or are too lazy for to get.

I never called for any destruction, if you read what i actually wrote, i pretty much spoken against that just before your reply, and guess what, i'm not responsible for everything that everyone writes in here just because i have opened the thread. But your generalization about "people campaigning guided by ugly envy" was obviously directed at everyone, me included.
Some people might or might not have extreme or confused ideas or reactions about this topic, while some of them might not be constructive or even destructive, it only goes towards the point that there is anger and resentment about the topic, and something is obviously not right, and among the various ideas that me and other people proposed to fix this thing, there are concept very similar to the ones that you just wrote and that go towards a constructive fixing of the issue without punishing anyone.

Edited by Davih

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At least when there were announcements and you could use spells or pendulums to find them there were legit ingame ways of helping pin down unique locations. The way it's been changed now means its 10x more difficult, which would be fine if anyone here genuinely believes that noone out there at all has any kind of 3rd party program assistance assisting them. It's all well and good to moderate the posts here to remove accusations but the fact is the community believes these things exist. Some people feel its incredibly blatant even if it hasn't been proven and so it feels pointless to hunt. I have no doubt some people put in very extensive hours to genuinely go out and hunt for uniques but i also 10000% believe those people are fighting a battle with those who don't need to look.

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even champion uniques are a joke, I would like to see them bigger and stronger. no longer killable with 10 alts. make it so, you need the whole server, a real map boss. i would like to see more tank rotations, more healers, more damage needed. and about the drop, i have no idea.

you could make it obvious when one spawns, sounds that travel across the entire server, make them unable to be penned, fix the loot distribution and i believe, this could be a fun event. it could even bring more life to the poor death tab :P

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3 hours ago, Davih said:

  Nice try but... no, i don't, because while other people might have wrote that, i actually never did say anything like that, i've only said there's toxicity surrounding the subject, in many different ways, i never specifically referred to any group as toxic, you're literally the first person i call out for that, because you, in fact, just wrote something clearly toxic in this thread.

 

If anything, I consider repeated claim of toxicity as well as megaomaniac "Almost everyone  agrees .." statements indeed toxic. And you at least agreed to someone accusing others of rule breaches like use of 3rd party tools. But better drop that as it leads nowhere. I had no intention to offend you, and as far I did, I apologize.


And granted it was not you calling for destruction.  Some of your proposals, like having a fix amount of dragon loot instead of a share thereof, are not unsensible albeit prolly not fully thought through (e.g. does it mean that, if everyone out of 300 participants in a public slaying get fix, say 0.05 meaning 15kg scale per dragon while 15 slayers get 0.75kg in total?). Much boils down to whether the exclusivity of scale/drake armour should go away so that everyone can get one. I am not sure about that.

 

If I see room for improvement, then in creating incentives for public slayings. That could even be that a share of the hide and scale remains in the corpse so that the organizer can choose how to deal with (not sure whether that is a good idea). Or any kind of reward for organizers, special item, title, I don't know.

 

Having participated in such an organization I can tell you it is a lot of work. Just summoning some helpers and killing the beast would have been done in an hour or less. Ok would have been much less fun too, at least for us.

 

Edited by Ekcin

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