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Davih

Please do something to address, even temporarily, the unique-slaying situation

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Anyone remember TPRT? 
 

public slaying FTW

 

otherwise I have no comment, but just prefer to see public slayings for everyone to enjoy VS private ones which drive up the costs of potions and limit the hides and still to this day causes drama. 
 

 

the hunt aspect has always appealed to me though and back in the day I really enjoyed running around pristine looking for the uniques. 

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How about creating a special deed on each map that is a big Arena.  Mark it on the main map like a starter town.

Every week a Unique would spawn in the Arena of this deed.  The gates would be locked until the appointed time.  This is how it would work:

 

Week 1 Spawns a unique at say 6pm GMT on a Saturday.

Week 2 Spawns a unique at say 6am GMT on a Saturday.

There would be a 12 hour difference between each 1 week. This would mean that everyone in each timezone can have a chance at making it at some point.  Hopefully.  Either the 1st week or the 2nd week.

 

I don't know how the loot system works at the moment for slayings but I would assume it could apply to this arena type system?

 

It would mean that the slayings are public.  Can be found at a fixed location. Would be a weekly event. Would be at a set time.

This does of course take away the hunting for uniques and the trapping of them.   But well maybe they could introduce some new monsters that can only be found if you have a high tracking skill.  This would make use of the tracking skill.   Like invisible monsters that only show themselves when a pro tracker discovers their presence or something.

Or maybe a unique monster that shows up when you cut down a certain high amount of trees or maybe randomally spawns when someone casts the lava spell.  Just some random ideas to get new monsters/uniques into the wurm world through other means.

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I'll simply say that we need a better system than "luck" or "rng" . The current system is indeed broken. 

 

The reality is that while It's ok to reward people for their effort, aka groups of people looking for dragons it does create suspicion when it's the same 20 people killing half of the uniques that spawn. 

 

My suggestion revolves around rewarding skill not luck.

 

Luck is not a skill. 

 

Just change the damn system to something closer to a meritocratic system where damage dealt,  healing done contributes to earning scales/hide rather than this messed up system "oh, I got lucky today."

 

As for proving others are using 3rd party tools, that's next to impossible. I'm guessing it's more to do at looking at the Wurm code for dragon spawns and people extrapolating says data to calculate probability of said spawns on servers. The wurm code is out there. I'm certain some enterprising individuals figured out ways to use that to their advantage.

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there's no hacking.. it's just the time-window since last unique's death and spawn points, ex and possible new ones based on deeds and distance from them.

 

last change removed what.. twitter, spawn time message ingame from event log.. who cares.. they still spawn in generally same time after last one's death and that is posted in area history and twitter - which is ok.. 

 

it's the spawn time and place that is easy to guess or pin a few interest points on the map and just zoom through it checking just there, ignoring the improbable places, it's all about doing it at the right time and place or having a team with rotating.. who's to go check the local 'grocery store' for some dragon meat on the shelf.

 

which is the disgusting part of the mechanic.. it's easy to rig when you are buck-hound, why cant this be part of rifts and why cant rifts have proper times for their starts.. or why cant we have new type of events for uniques where all or more can participate more often.

 

as mentioned the private parties are cancer, nobody likes them, but the like 40 people from whole population.. some people have 3-4th+ set of scale just chilling in a lmc while no scraps ever hit the market and the few who do priv kills and sell make bigger buck from it with the supply/demant problem.

 

if few kiddos whine for a challenge.. roadmap had a hunting map or w/e event is cooking, implement new events, creatures, drops, gear, it's about time.. how many years have gone without new weapons or armor to be added to the game, it's just tweaks, no new trinkets, no alchemy content. 

 

this could be solved in so many ways if it was pinned as an issue that needs a fix, so far it seems like it's ok for ccab how it is, yet same people do same things, with almost no variety.

that alone is a sign that something's rigged beyond..

 

but that's just 1 opinion, nothing more.

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1 minute ago, elentari said:

My suggestion revolves around rewarding skill not luck.

 

Luck is not a skill. 

 

 

There is a very minor amount of luck involved in hunting uniques, if you've been doing it for longer than  a small period.

 

As Finn has said above, anyone experienced in unique hunting can basically bag uniques on rotation purely from skill, just like you might bag a fish during a seasonal migration. 

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1 minute ago, elentari said:

I'll simply say that we need a better system than "luck" or "rng" . The current system is indeed broken. 

 

The reality is that while It's ok to reward people for their effort, aka groups of people looking for dragons it does create suspicion when it's the same 20 people killing half of the uniques that spawn. 

 

My suggestion revolves around rewarding skill not luck.

 

Luck is not a skill. 

 

Just change the damn system to something closer to a meritocratic system where damage dealt,  healing done contributes to earning scales/hide rather than this messed up system "oh, I got lucky today."

 

As for proving others are using 3rd party tools, that's next to impossible. I'm guessing it's more to do at looking at the Wurm code for dragon spawns and people extrapolating says data to calculate probability of said spawns on servers. The wurm code is out there. I'm certain some enterprising individuals figured out ways to use that to their advantage.

that will be stupid.. LoF will be op af.. while nobody but lib/mag will sponge huge amounts of the loot with the cr buff.. leaving rest to whoever have truehit etc.. buffs to get more damage done, woa/nimble/elemental/hq, than we go to mm/silver weapons.. and last ... there's that 98+% of the population with their thump in mouth watching it happen and wondering wtf.. as they get the scraps wonder where did all other loot go.

 

heal/damage scaling in wurm is easy to rig if you have benefit.. 

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5 minutes ago, elentari said:

Just change the damn system to something closer to a meritocratic system where damage dealt,  healing done contributes to earning scales/hide rather than this messed up system "oh, I got lucky today."

 

This also? Have you seen the hit rates for dragon kills, even on small groups of 15-20?
You might be lucky to hit it 5 times, and to even do 2-5% of its health even in that small of a group, even at large FS and with good weapons.

Imagine having 150 people at a dragon slaying, you won't do enough to get anything unless you're a priest. 

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Also want to add that I find any system in any game designed to lock out content for a good chunk of its playerbase due to RNG is just a bad system and should be changed.

 

I believe that's the year old issue with unique hunts that crops up every year, and honestly should be addressed by now. 

5 minutes ago, Finnn said:

which is the disgusting part of the mechanic.. it's easy to rig when you are buck-hound, why cant this be part of rifts and why cant rifts have proper times for their starts.. or why cant we have new type of events for uniques where all or more can participate more often.

 

My point here. 

 

Unique hunts should be focused on the ACTUAL FIGHTING SKILLS of the player NOT the rng in finding a dragon. 

 

Aka , how does the player contribute to the fight? How much healing does he do? How much does he tank? How many glances / blocks does he pull off? 

 

Stuff like that is what a unique hunt should be about. Hell. I wanted to suggest years ago that a hunt should be a monthly 7 day event where dragons summon their minions and you have to steadily defeat them in order to actually fight the dragon as a boss itself. It should be a tough fight. It should be such a tough fight that alts should die pretty fast. 

 

Dragon scale/hide should be a reward for people who actually put effort into learning wurm's combat mechanics, and not just by being there or by having the "privilege" of being in the "right" group. My 2 cents for 2021. I'll say the same in 2022. 

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I would still stress the fact that the problem is not: "the same 20 people are getting all the uniques"
The problem is the possibility of such a scenario to exist in the first place, even more so if the mechanics that you need to master in order to find the uniques aren't even to be found INSIDE the game

Same reason why i said i don't even want to check them out, it doesn't matter who they are, or how many they are getting, the system is wrong at its root and it could be fixed in a large numbers of ways,  ranging from

- at least drop the scale on the corpse so that the slaying group can invite people over without them automatically stealing their scale
to
- Just ditch the general idea entirely and reward everyone in local regardless.

I'm not even here to say which side of this range we should go, i'm just saying "literally anything but the way it is right now, but fast, and this time for real"
 

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4 minutes ago, Finnn said:

that will be stupid.. LoF will be op af.. while nobody but lib/mag will sponge huge amounts of the loot with the cr buff.. leaving rest to whoever have truehit etc.. buffs to get more damage done, woa/nimble/elemental/hq, than we go to mm/silver weapons.. and last ... there's that 98+% of the population with their thump in mouth watching it happen and wondering wtf.. as they get the scraps wonder where did all other loot go.

 

Alright so perhaps not healing done, but there has to be a way to measure the prowess of a player in better terms than what we have right now. 

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4 minutes ago, Zexos said:

How about creating a special deed on each map that is a big Arena.  Mark it on the main map like a starter town.

Every week a Unique would spawn in the Arena of this deed.  The gates would be locked until the appointed time.  This is how it would work:

 

Week 1 Spawns a unique at say 6pm GMT on a Saturday.

Week 2 Spawns a unique at say 6am GMT on a Saturday.

There would be a 12 hour difference between each 1 week. This would mean that everyone in each timezone can have a chance at making it at some point.  Hopefully.  Either the 1st week or the 2nd week.

 

I don't know how the loot system works at the moment for slayings but I would assume it could apply to this arena type system?

 

It would mean that the slayings are public.  Can be found at a fixed location. Would be a weekly event. Would be at a set time.

This does of course take away the hunting for uniques and the trapping of them.   But well maybe they could introduce some new monsters that can only be found if you have a high tracking skill.  This would make use of the tracking skill.   Like invisible monsters that only show themselves when a pro tracker discovers their presence or something.

Or maybe a unique monster that shows up when you cut down a certain high amount of trees or maybe randomally spawns when someone casts the lava spell.  Just some random ideas to get new monsters/uniques into the wurm world through other means.

 

I like some of your thinking here, however I'm not a fan of having them in one spot.

 

I think maybe if they worked kind of like the rifts do now, but a little different. Right now when a rift spawns, everyone on server knows the location and time. What if when a dragon spawns, no one knows, but once it is found, the player has an option to make an announcement that goes server wide. This alerts everyone that a dragon has been found, the warning call has now gone out via the player that found it, guards start warning people about the dragon having been spotted. At this point in 2 days time the dragon will attack some location, with the guards announcing 24 hours in advance the location of the attack. Up to that point of the dragon attacking the location, the dragon itself cannot be attacked, penned or anything, its a docile creature until its time has come to attack. The players can join forces to defend the location, and only in defending the location from the dragon attack would any rewards be given. Even have hatchlings lead the attack first, having to slay several of the dragons / hatchlings before the event is over.

 

I think the rewards could be based upon fighting skills / damage done / healing done / any other metric that is found to be best for the community. I don't think it should be so easy and rewards so massive that everyone now rides around in dragon/drake armor. But it would create an event that everyone could attend and experience and give people goals to aspire to be able to be of more help. It gives that new player something to have hope for that when they reach a point, they can help defend the server from attack. Just as making your deed and putting the work and time into your deed makes you proud, putting the time and effort into defending from a dragon attack would do wonders to making people enjoy the game more and want to stay around. People who are proud of something that they have done or are doing are less likely to walk away from it.

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3 minutes ago, elentari said:

 

Alright so perhaps not healing done, but there has to be a way to measure the prowess of a player in better terms than what we have right now. 

Sadly, i think that this is beyond the point, as long as no more than a few people are invited/present to the slay, the way in which the loot gets distributed amont them, is kinda irrelevant

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4 minutes ago, Davih said:

I would still stress the fact that the problem is not: "the same 20 people are getting all the uniques"
The problem is the possibility of such a scenario to exist in the first place, even more so if the mechanics that you need to master in order to find the uniques aren't even to be found INSIDE the game

Can you elaborate on this 'aren't even to be found INSIDE the game' part?

 

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3 minutes ago, Blazecraze said:

Can you elaborate on this 'aren't even to be found INSIDE the game' part?

 

what finn said
  

17 minutes ago, Finnn said:

there's no hacking.. it's just the time-window since last unique's death and spawn points, ex and possible new ones based on deeds and distance from them.

 

last change removed what.. twitter, spawn time message ingame from event log.. who cares.. they still spawn in generally same time after last one's death and that is posted in area history and twitter - which is ok.. 

 

it's the spawn time and place that is easy to guess or pin a few interest points on the map and just zoom through it checking just there, ignoring the improbable places, it's all about doing it at the right time and place or having a team with rotating.. who's to go check the local 'grocery store' for some dragon meat on the shelf.

 


I mean, you have to keep track of past events, probably using Niarja, the whole thing doesn't seem like a very ingame fantasy-immersive way to locate a dragon

Edited by Davih

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6 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

 

I like some of your thinking here, however I'm not a fan of having them in one spot.

 

I think maybe if they worked kind of like the rifts do now, but a little different. Right now when a rift spawns, everyone on server knows the location and time. What if when a dragon spawns, no one knows, but once it is found, the player has an option to make an announcement that goes server wide. This alerts everyone that a dragon has been found, the warning call has now gone out via the player that found it, guards start warning people about the dragon having been spotted. At this point in 2 days time the dragon will attack some location, with the guards announcing 24 hours in advance the location of the attack. Up to that point of the dragon attacking the location, the dragon itself cannot be attacked, penned or anything, its a docile creature until its time has come to attack. The players can join forces to defend the location, and only in defending the location from the dragon attack would any rewards be given. Even have hatchlings lead the attack first, having to slay several of the dragons / hatchlings before the event is over.

 

I think the rewards could be based upon fighting skills / damage done / healing done / any other metric that is found to be best for the community. I don't think it should be so easy and rewards so massive that everyone now rides around in dragon/drake armor. But it would create an event that everyone could attend and experience and give people goals to aspire to be able to be of more help. It gives that new player something to have hope for that when they reach a point, they can help defend the server from attack. Just as making your deed and putting the work and time into your deed makes you proud, putting the time and effort into defending from a dragon attack would do wonders to making people enjoy the game more and want to stay around. People who are proud of something that they have done or are doing are less likely to walk away from it.

Hey that sounds cool! Yeah, I like that idea.   It makes things more interactive then just a zoo type of slaughter.

There used to be something like that on a game that I used to play.  A random village/town/city was picked at a random time and it would come across in game messages that an attack was going to happen soon at so and so location.  People would rush to that location to defend it from attack and get some sweet loot.  Did not happen all of the time but was a nice kind of mini event to keep things interesting. It would also bring in high level players to low level locations to defend the newbies from the high level mobs.

Edited by Zexos
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6 minutes ago, gnomegates said:

 

I like some of your thinking here, however I'm not a fan of having them in one spot.

 

I think maybe if they worked kind of like the rifts do now, but a little different. Right now when a rift spawns, everyone on server knows the location and time. What if when a dragon spawns, no one knows, but once it is found, the player has an option to make an announcement that goes server wide. This alerts everyone that a dragon has been found, the warning call has now gone out via the player that found it, guards start warning people about the dragon having been spotted. At this point in 2 days time the dragon will attack some location, with the guards announcing 24 hours in advance the location of the attack. Up to that point of the dragon attacking the location, the dragon itself cannot be attacked, penned or anything, its a docile creature until its time has come to attack. The players can join forces to defend the location, and only in defending the location from the dragon attack would any rewards be given. Even have hatchlings lead the attack first, having to slay several of the dragons / hatchlings before the event is over.

 

I think the rewards could be based upon fighting skills / damage done / healing done / any other metric that is found to be best for the community. I don't think it should be so easy and rewards so massive that everyone now rides around in dragon/drake armor. But it would create an event that everyone could attend and experience and give people goals to aspire to be able to be of more help. It gives that new player something to have hope for that when they reach a point, they can help defend the server from attack. Just as making your deed and putting the work and time into your deed makes you proud, putting the time and effort into defending from a dragon attack would do wonders to making people enjoy the game more and want to stay around. People who are proud of something that they have done or are doing are less likely to walk away from it.


I'm pretty sure this  was already proposed in the past, as pretty much every other GOOD idea that has been ignored so far.

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Game design: 

 

Issue # 1 

 

Most MMOS are instanced for a reason. So that everyone, every player has the chance to compete. No exceptions. 

Instances allow skill to prevail over luck. You find a decent group, you do dungeons/raids, you test your mettle and get rewards based on how well you coordinate. Simple idea. It's been refined by now in tons of games.

 

Issue # 2 

 

Wurm is not instanced. Wurm has what you'd call "World bosses" in other games. In every mmo i've seen World bosses are the source of a lot of drama where factions try to steal them from other factions. 

 

Issue # 3 

 

Maximum number of players allowed in combat. There is a specific number of players that can be engaged with a creature at any given time, i think the cap is around  25?  Somewhere in that range. 

This means that again, it's down to RNG if your 99 FS , 99 Huge axe account can even be "allowed" to hit the creature. 

 

Issue # 4 Loot distribution. 

 

Again this is done with the simple (perhaps lazy design) of rewarding people who just happen to be nearby. 

 

Unpopular but I'd say necessary solutions. 

 

Solution #1 Instance uniques. Make a server or a GM protected zone where only a limited number of players can participate and fight a unique. Not a popular opinion but it would solve all this ###### drama if everyone would get a shot at fighting said dragons. 

 

Solution #2 

 

Similar to a rift, scale the "strength" of a dragon to the number of players in its vicinity. If people bring a ton of useless alts to a fight, no kill will happen and they will be asked to leave. This might create inevitable drama, but also people will realize that only useful characters can participate in such fights.  Probably not the best solution since it can be exploited to grief hunts. Maybe a GM protected zone is required which leads me to ...

 

Solution #3 

 

Instead of an instance, simply make a server similar to golden valley (small size) but you cannot enter it if you don't have minimum skills. Once there you'll go to an inn and request the inkeeper to put you on a mercenary team to hunt dragons. When the next dragon spawns you get a notification in game (and perhaps via email) that the hunt begins in 1 week. Maximum number of mercs allowed would be 20? Choose any number depending on how the devs wanna envision them. You jump to that server in a week, fight the dragon, collect the loot then done. Then 20 mercs in line will kill a different dragon. 

 

Esentially this is a system where you have a "cooldown" on killing dragons. No RNG, just earn your fighting skills, get on the list, find good players to team up with and done. 

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Also want to add that an In-game Poll would be ideal and on the forum as well to gauge the idea of having an instance or server dedicated to unique hunts only. 

 

Seems like some other people here have thought among the same lines. 

 

I don't see why anyone would support the current system unless they would have other motives like keeping their hunting-private-group-monopoly going. 

 

Well, if you look at steam reviews that sort of feedback is also there. 

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Some of these solutions would require alot of dev time, like having events similar to rifts when rifts took 3-5 years to flesh out.

 

A very simple solution is to restore announcements of when they spawn - giving everyone a chance to go out and look for them.

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I have only been a part of 3 private kills. All 3 were "hunted down" by someone driving from point a to point b and almost getting killed by a dragon sneaking up on them.

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-1. I havent slayed privately in a while but the general consensus and thought it you put in the effort, you get the reward. Now I wont say when but I do know that a lot of private groups hold public slayings as well

 

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13 minutes ago, Rocklobster said:

Some of these solutions would require alot of dev time, like having events similar to rifts when rifts took 3-5 years to flesh out.

 

A very simple solution is to restore announcements of when they spawn - giving everyone a chance to go out and look for them.

I don't think this would be "that much" of a solution, because, it would only change who gets to decide who is included in the slaying groups, possibly keeping it private and small anyway

So, generally speaking, that wouldn't change the toxic environment so much

Edited by Davih

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2 hours ago, Davih said:

I am sincerely amazed by how some of you might think that the hunters / penners are a valuable contribution to the game community that NEEDS to be heavily rewarded for their effort, because OTHERWISE nobody would ever host a unique slay for free or even "losing money"

This is a ridiculous arugment.

What about the people that spends thousandsof hours making canals?
vWhat about the people that spends thousands of hours making highways/bridges?
What about the people that spends hundreds of hours organizing public events in which they spend a lot of silvers but gain nothing of of them?

 

Been there, did it... deeded the landmarks on the underground cave canals entrance. Traders used to pay for them... but hey... traders got nerfed by the same kind of thread. So I'm currently loosing money on those deeds that are deemed unneccessary by the staff... but the area outside of heritaged tunnels / canals are not protected... so meh.

So yah... People who do free stuff are just dumb in this game... I stopped doing free stuff because you are just getting beaten like the dead horse those threads are. Gaining renown is useless when you can have a good name and reputation but being griefed to high hell and once again get no protection from the staff.

 

The game needs many fixes... Uniques might be one of them, but imho they are not the highest ones on the priority list.

 

(I am also part of a semi-private hunting group on deliverance welcoming any Delians aboard and opening up the humanoid kills for the Deli population... But for the rest of the free stuff... nope(TM) )

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2 hours ago, Blazecraze said:

I am curious how dragons/uniques are considered end game content

have you tried soloing one? a champ troll is managable alone. a rift with a few people(concidered endgame type events) can be done. a unique, dragon or otherwise...you'd have to be a monster to handle that.
 

2 hours ago, Blazecraze said:

your very easily obtainable silver/gold from the actual end game - grinding your skills to high level.

yea sorry but i must call BS on that. and not blacksmithing. for info mine's 98.5 and i barely worked 2-3 days in the forge last month. there's no clients. people go to alliance members. 

the issue here is how some manage the hunt to order to hoard a ressource to the point they are the only ones in control. a little like a guild... now imagine if they was a guild running all sides of the market. want to sell clay/mortar? be in the digger's guild. you got bricks? stonecutter's guild. ore? miner's guild. leather? tanner's guild. and so on. you're new and not part of any guild you cant sell. ridiculous isnt it?

so why is that allowed to continue on this particular ressource. not only does it get hoarded for profit (ironic concidering its dragons that are meant to hoard riches) but the actual events are closed off from people taking part ( again exept stanlee making his public. you rock dude!) 

 

in the past either someone or i suggested uniques would be announced like rifts. with a big shiny light on them. or can do it like the mission for some creatures with a map area. so finding or avoiding them would be easier and push to make the hunts more public. can you guess how that went? the private hunting groups stand guard and come out in force as soon as any hunt change is even remotely suggested and spammed under hate and drama before anyone gets a chance to see the ideas... because the 'guilds' they built do not want to let go of the monopoly they get. that system is flawed and needs to change. 

2 hours ago, Xor said:

prefer to see public slayings for everyone to enjoy VS private ones which drive up the costs of potions and limit the hides and still to this day causes drama. 

i'm not the only one saying this. 

  

2 hours ago, Zexos said:

How about creating a special deed on each map that is a big Arena.  Mark it on the main map like a starter town.

this might work. this would mean no taking the body. loot could be sent in local and for those a bit late could still use a butcher knife and get something out of the body.

but i'll admit gnomegate's idea of guards telling of an attack  or elentari's merc recruitment both sound way more fun. also having to defend does make more sense and there's a challenge. we dont want people's homes to be destroyed, so possibly a higher turnover not just for loot. i recall a kyklops a few years back was damaging someone's place. everyone grouped on it fast. could also plan ahead, prepare some strategies( espetialy if there's more than 1 scaly on the menu) and maybe see a use for war machines in pve!

those 3 ideas sounds more fun than the actual system. and for those saying the devs dont have time to code... that's mechanics already in the game so, bit of tweaking and balancing. nothing too new to create.

 

so to finnish i'll say this: the actual system is broken and unfair, and just because we have been forced to use it doesnt make it right. it needs a change. badly! we have had great suggestions in this thread (and many more in the past im sure) for new ways to make things more fun for everyone, make the game more alive and make sure people not only join but want to actualy stay in wurm. so please. please. please. dev team. no need to make it instant. but please fix this. because it is not healthy as it currently is. wurm is strongly built on its tight knit community and this only drives us futher away from each others. help strengthen the bonds we create, not destroy them. thank you

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2 hours ago, elentari said:

 

Alright so perhaps not healing done, but there has to be a way to measure the prowess of a player in better terms than what we have right now. 

So where do you stop? Do you include the priest who summons 15+ people to the slay? Do you include the priest who casts mass stamina halfway through the fight so fighters can keep fighting? Do you include the new player who has never been to a fight and brings a weapon that tickles the mob, not knowing slaying uniques demands a two hander? Someone is always going to be contributing, but the metrics to measure that are not always cut and dried.

 

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