Sign in to follow this  
Oblivionnreaver

Remove catchup decay on deed

Recommended Posts

An explanation for those who don't know what it is, if something is placed somewhere where decay is stopped/almost entirely stopped, such as a filled larder, magic chest, decorations on deed, among other things, decay will build up the entire time it's there. This is due to how decay works, each "interval" it'll take damage equal to how much time it's taken ( if it takes a tick of 1 dmg per day on average, and it's been 2 days since it last checked, it'll take 2 dmg, and so on), then reset the time since last decay to 0. These things that "stop" decay get around decay by making the intervals between decay near infinite, but once you take it off deed, the decay intervals are set back to their original amounts, but you've still got the built up time since last decay tick. Say you're on a boat that's been on deed for a year since you were on a break or something, and you sail it off deed, within a few minutes of sailing, it'll take a years worth of decay at once, if this is a low quality boat this can instantly destroy it or kick you out as it's no longer high enough quality to be commanded. The weird way that this is coded makes the no decay basically useless for anything that doesn't permanently reside in a deed/in a magic chest or similar.

Suggested fix would be
1. Change the decay interval modification to a 100% decay damage reduction, this would fix the issue, but might add a slight amount of lag to the server as all the items that are on deed and weren't getting polled for decay before are now being polled as they would off deed.

2. Make being on a deed/in a decay proof container reset "lastMaintained" on server launch. This would half fix the problem, but you'd still be getting decay on boats/carts/etc if you drive them around daily and park them on deed after

3. Make repairing/commanding/pushing/interacting with something in a decay proof container/etc force a check for decay that's set to 0 if it's somewhere protected from decay and reset "lastMaintained". This would be the most reliable one but not sure how much of an impact on lag this would have, especially with things like someone pushing instantly on deed.

Edited by Oblivionnreaver
  • Like 17

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely.

I don't understand why the decay system works in its current method, or why they introduce decay reduction in any form when its irrelevant when you go to actually use the items you're preserving for later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sure this is what happened to my moon lumps that I had stored on merchants for years and when the merchants expired, all went into the mail system, where the accumulated decay kicked in and nearly destroyed all of them.  I just got the cold shoulder when I brought it up on forums.  Cost me a small fortune and now I refuse to ever spend money on  merchant contract again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Catch up decay, is horrible.  I understand that things need to decay faster off deed. But keeping track of missing decay ticks and then catching up when the next decay tick happens causes a lot of damage to things that we do not want damage to happen to.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love driving off deed to dig up some sand or clay real quick and then getting told I cant get back on the cart I just rode out, makes a lot of sense.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What? I had no idea about this. So my large cart is normally on deed, but I occasionally go out to a nearby secret mine to get some copper. You’re saying that if my cart is off deed when a decay tick happens (which is, what, once a day?), it’ll suddenly take all the decay it had ’missed’ by being on deed (months worth in this case). That’s seems very wrong.
 

+1 to getting that fixed. 

Edited by Calan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This seems more like a bug than an intended feature.

 

It actively discourages leaving deeds and should thus be removed.

 

Easy fix 4:  Your goal is decay counters to be 0 or 1; just "and" it with a "not deed/protected" check each time it is applied.  This also means you can tweak the code applying decay damage to always happen, no need to apply the deed/protected check at that stage

Edited by Etherdrifter
Tweak
  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yep, that decay method makes no sense... thinking my magic chest is significantly less useful now.  :(

 

JS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Etherdrifter said:

This seems more like a bug than an intended feature.

It actively discourages leaving deeds and should thus be removed.

Easy fix 4:  Your goal is decay counters to be 0 or 1; just "and" it with a "not deed/protected" check each time it is applied.  This also means you can tweak the code applying decay damage to always happen, no need to apply the deed/protected check at that stage

I agree. If the devs are still reading suggestions 😎 consider to move the thread to bugs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 I didn't know this was a thing and I have to wonder why it is a thing! I have several vehicles and boats that I've stored on deed for literally years. I do imp them on occasion and I'm hoping that resets the decay count to 0?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this should even be a "suggestion" or a bug report. Because i hope it was never intended to work that way.

So yeah, it's not even something they should take into consideration to change, it's basically a bug that needs to be fixed asap.

either way, +1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1. i beleive its what happened ot one of my barrels i had sealed up. when i opened it to drink (out of deed while digging clay).. couldnt find it anymore... barrel was gone and my booze giving affinity was gone :s

sounds indeed more like a bug than a feature if the decay protection of a deed doesnt protect and hit you up way harder later... almost makes a deed's main feature useless...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

100% agree.  If it can't be fixed (or if it can't be fixed quickly) then both the shop pages and the wiki pages for magic chests should be updated to include the complete details about how the thing actually works.  Players will feel scammed if they spend marks or silver on an item, only to find out later that it doesn't work the way they were led to believe it would.  And the next time they think about making a purchase, they might end up thinking twice.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol yeah, love it when i take my lumps out of the magic chest, put them in a forge, and they almost instantly take 30 damage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I absolutely didn't know this was even a thing, or I would have probably complained about it.  It does explain some of the weird damage I have seen on tools etc kept on deed and taken with me on a trip.  I had put it down to no paying attention to the item, but now I shall blame someone else.

 

It seems like a a quick-fix it of coding that has never been reworked to actually function properly.

 

Please fix this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had the same magic chest for nearly 8 years, moved it across multiple deeds, Hell I had 7 fountain pans in it... I have never once experienced any of this stuff.  Maybe I'm just lucky?  I've never heard of this magic catchup decay but seems it hits some people and not others?

 

The chest itself still has 25~ dmg, the same it did when I bought it from a player originally.  I've moved it multiple times to new deeds, leaving it OFFdeed in a cart and it has never taken further dmg, nor has anything inside that's been taken out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Nomadikhan said:

I've had the same magic chest for nearly 8 years, moved it across multiple deeds, Hell I had 7 fountain pans in it... I have never once experienced any of this stuff.  Maybe I'm just lucky?  I've never heard of this magic catchup decay but seems it hits some people and not others?

 

The chest itself still has 25~ dmg, the same it did when I bought it from a player originally.  I've moved it multiple times to new deeds, leaving it OFFdeed in a cart and it has never taken further dmg, nor has anything inside that's been taken out.

 

If something is taken out and then used soon after, maybe that decay tick (being action based rather than time based) doesn't make the "time since last" check and therefore circumvents the problem.  Maybe the interim answer is to give anything you are taking off deed a bit of a whack before you leave with it.  😉

Edited by TheTrickster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/14/2021 at 5:05 PM, Ekib said:

+1. i beleive its what happened ot one of my barrels i had sealed up. when i opened it to drink (out of deed while digging clay).. couldnt find it anymore... barrel was gone and my booze giving affinity was gone :s

sounds indeed more like a bug than a feature if the decay protection of a deed doesnt protect and hit you up way harder later... almost makes a deed's main feature useless...

This would explain the two affinity food barrels that vanished on me. One while in my boat and another in my cart. Both disappeared after I had opened them and eaten from them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Three days of this being posted and paying players showing concern about this issue, and there is no response from staff? Where is our community relations manager? Where is the communication needed to help with the fears that this issue brings up in many players. If this amount of people are voicing concern about this, then there are many many more that read this but don't say anything, and even more that don't even know about it. 

 

Come on Wurm Team, talk to us, we are eager to listen and to learn, we just need you to communicate with us!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, gnomegates said:

Three days of this being posted and paying players showing concern about this issue, and there is no response from staff? Where is our community relations manager? Where is the communication needed to help with the fears that this issue brings up in many players. If this amount of people are voicing concern about this, then there are many many more that read this but don't say anything, and even more that don't even know about it. 

 

Come on Wurm Team, talk to us, we are eager to listen and to learn, we just need you to communicate with us!

This is a suggestion to change a feature, so it's a little different. 

 

Technically, it's not a bug, it's working as intended mechanically, so the question is about changing it. 

This is not saying it's a GOOD thing, it's just not posted as a bug report.

 

That said I've passed it to the dev team to consider and will update if a decision is made to change the mechanic. 

Edited by Retrograde
clarification
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Retrograde said:

Technically, it's not a bug, it's working as intended mechanically


I don't want to take the habit of questioning staff answers.

But... as intended? seriously?

You mean that when this was originally developed it went somhow like this?
- "How should decay on and magical chests and deed-protected items be handled?"
- "Hm, i propose that we make the items apparently avoid the decay, but actually stealth-store it indefinitevely"
- "Oh, so that when you actually take it out, after months/years, or bring it outside the deed, it takes all the damage it avoided at once?"
- "Yeah, exactly, we must punish players randomly and without reason with this hidden mechanic because it's fun"
- "Sounds a bit complicated to code, but we'll make it work"
- "Perfect!"

Edited by Yldrania
Moderation Edit
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Davih said:


I don't want to take the habit of questioning staff answers.

But... as intended? seriously?

You mean that when this was originally developed it went somhow like this?
- "How should decay on and magical chests and deed-protected items be handled?"
- "Hm, i propose that we make the items apparently avoid the decay, but actually stealth-store it indefinitevely"
- "Oh, so that when you actually take it out, after months/years, or bring it outside the deed, it takes all the damage it avoided at once?"
- "Yeah, exactly, we must punish players randomly and without reason with this hidden mechanic because it's fun"
- "Sounds a bit complicated to code, but we'll make it work"
- "Perfect!"

More that the decay function checks to see if you're on deed, if you are on deed it exits the function. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I doubt its working as intended mechanically, in fact if that was indeed the mechanical process behind the concept of SMCs or LMCs, then perhaps a refund is in order for all the players lead to believe that the chests stop items from decaying?
Maybe adding a small note 'These chests are designed only to protect items while they are kept on deed' so that no other players fall for, if that is indeed the intended mechanical workings, blatant scam?

These items are either a heavy amount of marks, or a hefty amount of silver, and if that is indeed their intended purpose, then that is nothing short of a scam.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Blazecraze said:

I doubt its working as intended mechanically, in fact if that was indeed the mechanical process behind the concept of SMCs or LMCs, then perhaps a refund is in order for all the players lead to believe that the chests stop items from decaying?
Maybe adding a small note 'These chests are designed only to protect items while they are kept on deed' so that no other players fall for, if that is indeed the intended mechanical workings, blatant scam?

These items are either a heavy amount of marks, or a hefty amount of silver, and if that is indeed their intended purpose, then that is nothing short of a scam.

Magic chests protect items while they're in the chest, not just on deed. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think things like this contribute to the general feeling that the dev team's intentions are unclear. When this is classified as "working as intended" while the 0 ql loss repairing was "very clearly (and known to be) a bug" yet remained a widely known element of the game for 6+ months, it's hard to tell what other things in Wurm might seen as a bug by the developers. I don't have any brilliant insights to add but in general I think consistent definitions are good and desirable

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this