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Hoseph

A Need for Comfort

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Hello!

 

In contrast to typical survival mechanics and rationale for balancing purposes, I believe Comfort may provide an appropriate alternative.

 

Design philosophies:

  • Avoid negative association
  • Avoid sense of obligation
  • Address long-standing issues of the game
  • Create opportunities for role-play
  • Create new demand for underutilized parts of the game

 

What is it?

Comfort is intended as a metric to fulfill various requirements through activities to reach various thresholds (and rewards). As thirst and hunger affect the regeneration of stamina along with other effects, Comfort would affect a character's ability to tolerate and recuperate from hardship.

 

What are its benefits?

Adequate amounts of Comfort may, in no particular order, and depending on how diligent one has been, grant the player the ability to:

  • Recover skill lost on death
  • Reduce skill lost on death 
  • Reduce the limitations of Fatigue 

Pending benefits:

  • Slightly increase skill gain
  • Slightly improve creation chance
  • Slightly improve rare rolls

 

How do you "lose" Comfort?

By being uncomfortable, of course! Comfort may be reduced by certain things so long as the benefits of Comfort directly correlate, such as:

  • Damage taken
  • Time spent wounded
  • Time spent without food or water
  • Death
  • Being without protection in seasons such as Winter and Summer, and weather such as rain and snow
  • Traveling for long periods

 

How do you increase your Comfort?

In the same way that its benefits offer ways to deal with existing penalties and limitations, the ways that one would increase their Comfort may involve Comfortable activities, such as:

  • Consuming alcohol, baked goods, beverages(tea, fruit juice, hot cocoa)
  • Praying on favored tiles with adequate distance
  • Maintaining variety of comforting activities
  • Training a skill with an affinity
  • Witnessing a Sermon
  • Meditating

 

How do you avoid losing Comfort?

In the spirit of being casual enough that anyone can do it, while being just out-of-the-way that it doesn't simply get ignored, Comfort may be maintained by:

  • Wearing clothing (other armors no effect)
  • Wearing jewelry
  • Being in pleasant environments (flowers, furniture, lawns, flowers, statues, etc)
  • Standing near a fire during Winter while outdoors
  • Staying indoors during inclement weather (tents count too!)
  • Using polearms and bows during combat
  • Maintaining one's needs such as thirst and hunger

 

Why should this be added?

A new Needs-based mechanic may be warranted for the added flexibility when providing incentives. Current metrics are inflexible for encompassing a wider area of the game; It can make use of aspects of the game that are ill-fitting for current needs-based mechanics as well as addressing long-standing gripes. Adding a new layer also disrupts current game balance the least if handled correctly.

 

How might this affect the game?

The parts of the game involved in increasing, diminishing, and maintaining Comfort will be affected. This is of course very important. So for your consideration here are ways that Comfort may impact how you play:

  • Archery becomes a little more appealing for hunting
  • Beverages and Baking become more distinguished skills and as a way to provide Comfort for others. As a necessary drawback, baked goods offer no nutrients.
  • The Grind is broken up into soft breaks
  • Death becomes more tolerable (good for PvP!)
  • Clothing receives passive edge against armor
  • Cosmetic objects provide a bonus beyond simple appreciation
  • Skills such as Gardening, polearms, archery, enjoy greater purpose
  • Prolonged combat reduces Comfort unless action is taken (big one, not sure how to address)

 

Thank you for reading! What should be included? What should be taken out? What is wrong with this idea? I expect only the most scathing reviews!

Edited by Hoseph
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I get where you're coming from so please let me address your suggestion point my point.

 

5 hours ago, Hoseph said:

Pending benefits:

  • Slightly increase skill gain
  • Slightly improve creation chance
  • Slightly improve rare rolls

 

Sadly this seems like a new "must have for skillgain" feature, most wurmians will feel compelled by to get. A lot of people choose path of knowledge + a certain god + affinity foods to skill stuff.

Adding this to the game would make feel people compelled to adopt certain behaviors in order to get optimal skillgain and it would be a turn off for a lot of people.

 

6 hours ago, Hoseph said:

How do you "lose" Comfort?

By being uncomfortable, of course! Comfort may be reduced by certain things so long as the benefits of Comfort directly correlate, such as:

  • Damage taken
  • Time spent wounded
  • Time spent without food or water
  • Death
  • Being without protection in seasons such as Winter and Summer, and weather such as rain and snow
  • Traveling for long periods

 

I enjoy hunting and skilling weapons, a lot of people do and will skill at least 1 weapon to 90. Regardless of gear and skill you will get wounded. A lot. Seems like this basically punishes hunters and forces people to cap their hunting minutes or hours in order to mid/max the comfort loss.

 

Death  in Wurm is pretty much the most hardcore mechanic I've ever seen. On top of losing skills, you also can lose your gear. On pve servers you can die in a pretty bad spot and it will take you a while to recover your corpse. On pvp it's worse. Can lose a lot of gear in an instant that took months to get or even years.

 

6 hours ago, Hoseph said:

How might this affect the game?

The parts of the game involved in increasing, diminishing, and maintaining Comfort will be affected. This is of course very important. So for your consideration here are ways that Comfort may impact how you play:

  • Archery becomes a little more appealing for hunting
  • Beverages and Baking become more distinguished skills and as a way to provide Comfort for others. As a necessary drawback, baked goods offer no nutrients.
  • The Grind is broken up into soft breaks
  • Death becomes more tolerable (good for PvP!)
  • Clothing receives passive edge against armor
  • Cosmetic objects provide a bonus beyond simple appreciation
  • Skills such as Gardening, polearms, archery, enjoy greater purpose
  • Prolonged combat reduces Comfort unless action is taken (big one, not sure how to address)

 

Again this sounds more like soft-forcing people to adopt certain behaviors else they will get punished for in it the form or reduced skillgain, reduced affinity/rare windows. It borders a bit on social engineering where you want certain behaviors to happen that wouldn't happen naturally.

 

Keep in mind Wurm at its core is a sandbox MMORPG which means people can adopt a wide variety of playstyles. Some just enjoy cultivating a big farm and selling their goods. Others like breeding horses.

 

Some prefer to be loner smiths, ocassionally taking orders to pay the upkeep. All playstyles are equally valid.

 

This mechanic would upset a lot of delicate balancing to the game. It would add another level of "tediousness" since it would engender behaviors where players would find ways to "afk" their comfort-meter so they can grind optimally.

 

Esentially I like the spirit of the suggestion , perhaps modify the reward/punishment system with something eles but these changes would alter wurm's gameplay significantly.  I'd rather see more survival themed elements to the game since Wurm past a few months in, loses all survival focus and becomes more of an village life simulator. Animals cease becoming scary when you can ride a horse and flee any dangerous encounter. I'd rather see opt-in mechanics that can alter your gameplay such as "Hardcore mode" playstyle.

 

For example Hardcore mode :

 

1. Increased skillgain but Death carries a heavier toll = instead of losing 0.25 pts, you'd lose 5 points.

2. Armor and weapons receive more damage at the cost of doing more dmg to enemies/higher block or glance chance.

3. Food/water bars decrease faster but provide better bonuses.

4. Animals aggro you from longer distances but provide better skillgain in Fighting Skill.

5. Less sleep bonus received from sleeping but better bonuses when used, +75% skillgain instead of 50%?

6. Wounds are deadlier and more complex. Instead of just using cotton you have to treat broken bones, concussions, infections and such. It would imply adding more depth to the healing system but it would give a stronger sense of vulnerability when hunting. You'd have to make splints to treat bones and it would give you debuffs if you refuse to do so = you'd take more dmg if you get hit again in a broken leg, lower character speed, etc.

 

People on pvp would also get a bit more punished for the initially suggested mechanics since pvp would imply a lot of discomfort according to how you thought them out.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

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-1. I already fast multiple times between eating, this would introduce a new mechanic for me to ignore. Dont force playstyles on others.

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gg on skill loss recovery in some way.. alchemy or special cooking recipe.. found through finishing the 500x recipe learning or other milestone for example..

alchemy is really a dead-end in the game.. options to expand on it..

 

hard pass on the bull..... for sims gamplay.. is this sandbox or tamagotchi/Sims/ simulator, last thing this game needs is another micromanagement rope to hang on

 

causing players to get effects from actions.. is beating them with a bat and forcing fatigue in numerous ways.. and counters to it.. in addition to your 1 goal tomorrow.. you'll still need the 20 other things to do(normal time sink in wurm) + the new 5-50 additional time sinks and playarounds to achieve optimal results.. or just drive-through option.. accepting some loss by losing benefits and playing with debuffs constantly.. really dumb way to 'improve' something..

 

this seems like a way to force a lot of extra effort into the game, where it's already taking incredible amount of time to achieve so little.

 

Is the point here to reward nolifers 24/7 online players only?

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enrich the gameplay and qol.. do not drown people into chores is my feedback

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In a lot of ways 'comfort' is already a big part of Wurm. Although there is no direct measure of it it is important to be well fed, have a water source and a place to sleep. Even 'comforts' like money (deed upkeep) and religion (rare production and more) are already a part of the game. 

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On 2/10/2021 at 1:34 AM, elentari said:

Sadly this seems like a new "must have for skillgain" feature, most wurmians will feel compelled by to get. A lot of people choose path of knowledge + a certain god + affinity foods to skill stuff.

Adding this to the game would make feel people compelled to adopt certain behaviors in order to get optimal skillgain and it would be a turn off for a lot of people.

 

I appreciate the feedback. I suppose I went a little overboard with how it might work, so you're right that this iteration would have some issues with player agency, rewards, and sense of obligation.

 

On 2/10/2021 at 1:34 AM, elentari said:

I enjoy hunting and skilling weapons, a lot of people do and will skill at least 1 weapon to 90. Regardless of gear and skill you will get wounded. A lot. Seems like this basically punishes hunters and forces people to cap their hunting minutes or hours in order to mid/max the comfort loss.

 

Death  in Wurm is pretty much the most hardcore mechanic I've ever seen. On top of losing skills, you also can lose your gear. On pve servers you can die in a pretty bad spot and it will take you a while to recover your corpse. On pvp it's worse. Can lose a lot of gear in an instant that took months to get or even years.

 

As I understand it, the issue is the lack of agency over how and when it should take effect, similar to why Sleep Bonus has a toggle. Which would probably help a lot here, but as you've pointed out the ways to affect it need work. Ideally the benefits of Comfort should go in tandem with the things that require it, and hopefully this would streamline it into something more sensible. As well, the direct buffs to rare rolls, creation chance, and skillgain would necessarily have to be left out for reasons as you've said; direct impact on core gameplay loops can make it feel obligatory.

 

Reworked ways to lose Comfort:

  • Reducing skill loss on death reduces comfort on player death
  • Regaining skill lost on death reduces comfort when toggled on*

*When recovering skill already lost to death, should it be a slow passive recovery as you "cash in" your Comfort points or should you train that skill specifically? As an alternative to re-training them using a different set of activities. If it recovers skill over time on its own, then it may be necessary to require active work on the player's part to maintain Comfort levels, rather than passively recover. The benefit here is that some skills lost that are a hassle to train would be supplemented with a different set of activities.

 

That hopefully narrows its area of influence to those specific parts of the game. Though increasing Comfort might also need work, given that players will understandably look for efficiency in a given area of the game.

 

As with losing Comfort, I will try to simplify how Comfort may be increased. A crude way to promote different activities would split them up between "Increasing" and "Preventing from Decreasing"; for example, once you're regained it to satisfactory levels you might have some options to keep it from decreasing while you use it. In my mind this may necessitate that regaining comfort should generally be an Effect Over Time, with retainment acting as a static buff over a duration like food affinities.

 

Hopefully covering enough bases in regards to most common player activities; regaining Comfort might generally fall under:

  • Consuming alcohol, baked goods, beverages(tea, fruit juice, hot cocoa)
  • Variety of nutritious foods
  • Meditating/Praying (Extra motivator for longer grinds?)
  • Sleeping in a bed

Retaining Comfort could involve stuff that's easy to bring around:

  • Consuming alcohol, baked goods, beverages
  • Wearing jewelry
  • Standing by a fire

 

On 2/10/2021 at 5:37 AM, Finnn said:

causing players to get effects from actions.. is beating them with a bat and forcing fatigue in numerous ways.. and counters to it.. in addition to your 1 goal tomorrow.. you'll still need the 20 other things to do(normal time sink in wurm) + the new 5-50 additional time sinks and playarounds to achieve optimal results.. or just drive-through option.. accepting some loss by losing benefits and playing with debuffs constantly.. really dumb way to 'improve' something..

 

Fair points that are most likely why I'm better off not getting into game development.

 

It makes sense that making some activities drain Comfort without any real purpose behind it would feel like I'm being punished for not playing the "right" way. Especially when the benefits only involve player death; becoming a chore to maintain an appropriate level of Comfort just to remain prepared if something happens. Fair enough!

 

Which brings to mind in regards to increasing comfort; what activities would be appropriate, if any? If they don't encompass enough areas then it can feel limiting and arbitrary. At the same time too many activities would be more work to balance and tweak. Should Comfort slowly recharge on its own as well? Would that be augmented in some way via the use of various items and activities? It's starting to look like a variant of the Favor system.

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spent a while typing up a response before reading down and realizing you'd already adressed most of my criticisms. lol rip. here's it if you want to see it:

Spoiler

"depending on how diligent one has been,"
people will grind this, of course.

"Being in pleasant environments (flowers, furniture, lawns, flowers, statues, etc)"
I would feel obligated to make my deed "pretty" to not lose comfort, instead of being my lovely trashfire mess.

If comfort is easy to gain and maintain, it will just be a flat bonus that everyone has. If it is hard, people will grind this and maintain specific "comfort tiles/clothes" to work in as to not lose comfort. Additionally, the ways to lose comfort would be extremely disincentivized, since it would be hard to gain back.

"Damage taken
Time spent wounded

...
Traveling for long periods"
This would dissuade combat and traveling, which sucks because I like to do both.

Wurm is a sandbox game. Incentives are made by the player.
This "comfort" mechanic you are suggesting incentivizes certain behaviors, and disincentivizes others. Which is ... not ideal for a sandbox game.
If this mechanic were to be introduced to the game, however, it would have to be handled delicately. It would be extremely difficult to balance and implement. And, to be frank, I do not think this would benefit the game all that much.

I'd be pretty pissed if I had to make my deed pretty, anyhow. Trashfire mess ONLY

I think it could be interesting. I also think it could be a pain, another meter to keep filled up.

still, I think this here "comfort" mechanic isn't needed in the game right now, and in addition would be difficult to incentivize because Wurm is a sandbox game.


reducing skill loss on death seems nice tho. deaths are pretty brutal.

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on the paper it might look good but in practice... i doubt it. my place's small. but i like it that way. i made a 5 tile house area quite clustered but in a certain way that i have a certain corridor, a path for smithing one for cooking. with the furnitures around. a bed under the staircase (harry get out that one's mine!)  animals rugs all over the flors and so on. what i wear is your idea of 'comfort' will lead to some factor of how comfortable a house is based on some people's aestetics and thus dictact my house will no longer be good because its got too many things despite everything being on racks or storage and having everything in arm's reach...

also i tend to have to travel a bit to deliver products.... its not often fun or easy... making the travel more punishing would incite people to travel less, and likely raise market price for items and their deliveries. after all if i spend an hour or two delivering your order and i get less skillgains for half a day in return... someone's gonna pay for it... i tend not to charge for deliveries as most demands i take are large, but if i get penalised...i would have to. cause that good booze or high ql meal to bring the comfort back up would be costly... sorry i got side tracked with market talks a bit but let's be honest... it's a big part of many of us who work to pay for premium, and that includes most new players... its diffifult enough when new, adding this extra difficulty would not help more people stay :( 

the idea might have potential... but after some heavy rework

 

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On 2/10/2021 at 11:37 PM, Finnn said:

last thing this game needs is another micromanagement rope to hang on

 

I was going to post a longish explanation of why I dislike this idea for Wurm, but instead I will say this:

 

What Finn said.

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I'm sorry, but for as exciting as it might look to have this kind of mechanics on paper, they just become more boring chores on the long-term playing, and they reduce the quality of life, even if they are called comfort

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